Part II of the Breeding Guide

[eViLtHeCaT]

S = (1/2 x 1) + ((1/2)^2 x 2) + ((1/2)^3 x 3) + ((1/2)^4 x 4) + ...

why do you multiply your 1/2^x * x with another x?
i understand the 1/2^x bit, but not the * x ...

edit:

If i use your "2" in my equation i get an accuracy of 75%. Is that the mathematical definition of average? there's something missing here...

 

[X-Act]

why do you multiply your 1/2^x * x with another x?
i understand the 1/2^x bit, but not the * x ...

Because you have x coin flips, not 1.

If i use your "2" in my equation i get an accuracy of 75%. Is that the mathematical definition of average? there's something missing here...

You think it should be 100%? But that's impossible. If a class of students get an average of 50 marks out of 100 in a test, that doesn't mean that 100% of the class got 50 or less! The only way that would happen is if all the students got 50 marks. But a few of them got less than 50, and others got more than 50. Their average is 50, though.

Same with our Ditto catching. Some of us might catch only 100 Ditto to find their required six Dittos, others might need 200 Ditto, others 50, and others even 500. But the average amount of Ditto that is required is 170.

 

[obi]

I can't quite tell who your response is directed at.

You.

the 17.3% is a best case scenario because all it requires it that at least ONE of the IVs is maxed. anything above 1 is a bonus.

That's a worst case scenario. If it were the best case scenario, there would be possibility of improvement. You are assuming you only catch single flawless Ditto. The result will actually be lower because if you catch a double flawless Ditto, you don't need to catch 5 other single flawless, you only need to catch 4.

the way you want to calculate it simply breaks down the 17.3% into its constituents. the logic applied above still applies, you still need to calculate how many dittos per case per IVs remaining need to be caught.
With your method you'd end up having to catch more, because now you're going for 2 IV maxed dittos, 3 IV maxed dittos, etc. you can't really suggest that with a lower chance (15.9% <-> 17,3%) you're going to need fewer ditto to be successful?

No, you would need to catch less. I'm not saying "You have to go for this configuration of double flawless and four single flawless." I'm saying "You can go for 6 single flawless (your idea), OR you can go for a double flawless Pokemon and 4 single flawless, OR..." The "OR" operator in probability is similar to addition in algebra. Because probability can never be negative, and because you have a non-zero probability that a multi-flawless Ditto will pop up, this decreases the number of Ditto needed. You start out needing X with only single-flawless, and then you increase the probability to get even more flawless stats, meaning you'll need to catch more single-flawless later. This means you'll need some number less than X on average.

I'd prefer to catch two dittos, each with a differing matched stat and try hatch a 2 IV maxed ditto.

You cannot breed Ditto.

Finally:

"To find the actual probability, you'd need to find the probability of six Dittos at 1 perfect IV each, OR five Dittos of 1 and one Ditto of 2"

no, because the 17.3% expects at least 1. anything with more than 1 can be considered a bonus.

Yes, the 17.3% is at least 1. Therefore, any calculations that claim exactly 1 using this % will overestimate the number needed.

"Then there's also the fact that finding a 4 flawless Ditto when you already have 5 1 flawless Dittos is the same as finding a 1 flawless Ditto."

The chances of winning the lottery is 50:50, either you do or you don't. no, wait, that isn't right...
statistics has no memory.

I never said it did. What I said was to imagine this scenario:

I catch 5 Dittos with flawless IVs in 5 different stats (all but Speed). Now in the last Ditto I catch, I'll finish my "set" if I catch a single-flawless Ditto (Speed), but I'll also finish the set with a 4-flawless Ditto (HP, Attack, Defense, Speed). If I were to catch that same 4-flawless Ditto as the first Ditto with a flawless IV, I'd only need to catch Ditto for Special Attack and Special Defense.

chance of finding a ditto with perfect speed, for example, is roughly 3%.

Yes, 3.125% is the chance of finding a Ditto with 31 Speed.

chance of finding a ditto with 4 perfect random IVs=

6!/4!(6-4)! * 1/32^4 * 31/32^2 = 0,000013425

which comes works out at 0,001343%.

which is greatly smaller than 3%!

But that chance is included in the 3.125%. 1/32 gives you the probability that Speed will be perfect, but it doesn't also make the statement that none of the other stats are perfect. The actual chance of getting just perfect Speed, but imperfect others is (1/32) * (31/32)^5. This is about 2.666% chance. The probability of finding a Ditto with perfect Speed and 2-5 other perfect IVs is therefore 3.125-2.666, or about .459%. This probability will serve to lower the average amount of Ditto needed to be caught before getting at least one Ditto for each flawless IV in every stat.

 

[eViLtHeCaT]

"That's a worst case scenario. If it were the best case scenario, there would be possibility of improvement. You are assuming you only catch single flawless Ditto. The result will actually be lower because if you catch a double flawless Ditto, you don't need to catch 5 other single flawless, you only need to catch 4."

--> Fine. At least it gives you a definite target number to aim for though.


"You cannot breed Ditto."

--> bummer. still, you can always breed the IVs and natures step by step.


"Yes, the 17.3% is at least 1. Therefore, any calculations that claim exactly 1 using this % will overestimate the number needed."

--> no it won't, because as you say it expects AT LEAST 1 maxed IV. If you use any other percentage it will be lower and therefore will require more catches.

"But that chance is included in the 3.125%. 1/32 gives you the probability that Speed will be perfect, but it doesn't also make the statement that none of the other stats are perfect. The actual chance of getting just perfect Speed, but imperfect others is (1/32) * (31/32)^5. This is about 2.666% chance. The probability of finding a Ditto with perfect Speed and 2-5 other perfect IVs is therefore 3.125-2.666, or about .459%. This probability will serve to lower the average amount of Ditto needed to be caught before getting at least one Ditto for each flawless IV in every stat."

--> that isn't correct because you're only subtracting "perfect speed" from the percentage and leaving "perfect HP" etc. behind.

probability of hitting 0: ~83% (31/32)^6
probability of hitting any one perfect stat: ~16% (1/32) * (31/32)^5 * 6
probability of hitting 2 (and this is generous, considering it can be any stat) or more is therefore: 100% - (83% + 16%) = ~1%.

2.666% - 1% = 1.666%. easily over twice as good a chance considering that the 1% also incorporates 3 stats, 4 stats, etc.



@X-Act:

that doesn't make sense at all. the number of coinflips is already included in the form of the exponent, i.e. 1/2^2 ....

 

[X-Act]

that doesn't make sense at all. the number of coinflips is already included in the form of the exponent, i.e. 1/2^2 ....

It makes sense. How do you calculate an average? You add up all values and divide by the number of values, right?

And that's what I'm doing. However, instead of dividing in the final step, I'm dividing as I go along. The reason I'm doing this is that the number of values is infinite here, so I cannot conceivably divide by infinity.

You can read this too, if you like: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56672.html It provides an alternative way of finding the average number of coinflips required in order to get one heads, and later three heads in a row. The person working it out also got to the answer 2. You might prefer his method over mine, though.

 

[lovefist]

Hey guys,

I'm relatively new to this whole breeding for IVs concept and would just like some clarification before I go ahead and attempt to breed for IVs. I already have an Elekid with the egg moves from Machop (Cross Chop, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch) and am now not sure what to do.

To breed and start IV chaining, would it just be a case of breeding Dittos with 31 IVs in the required stat (Atk, Spd, Sp Atk) with the Elekid so that it then receives 31 IVs in Atk, Spd, Sp Atk? Or am I required to do something else?

My main aim is to get an Electivire with 31 IVs in his most important stats, and would just like to know the best way to do so.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Reflect Suicune]

Hey guys,

I'm relatively new to this whole breeding for IVs concept and would just like some clarification before I go ahead and attempt to breed for IVs. I already have an Elekid with the egg moves from Machop (Cross Chop, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch) and am now not sure what to do.

To breed and start IV chaining, would it just be a case of breeding Dittos with 31 IVs in the required stat (Atk, Spd, Sp Atk) with the Elekid so that it then receives 31 IVs in Atk, Spd, Sp Atk? Or am I required to do something else?

My main aim is to get an Electivire with 31 IVs in his most important stats, and would just like to know the best way to do so.

Thank you in advance.

In the long run (and its a really long run), getting dittos with 31 IVs will save you a huge amount of time, however catching dittos and praying for 31s is pretty tedious, and I'm not a long run kinda guy, and would prefer to just generation breed until I have a female and male elekid with 31 IVs each:

(I'm assuming both starting parents have no 31 IVs
Take female elekid and male machop/elekid/anything else that has those egg moves and is in the same egg group as elekid and put them in the day care...

Keep breeding, using whatever method you prefer, until you have a baby with at least one 31 IV. Put that baby in the day care, and release the pokemon it replaced. Continue breeding until you have a baby, of the opposite gender from the one mentioned earlier, with at least one 31 IV. Put that one in the day care as well, releasing the one it replaced.

Repeat until you have two babies with two 31 IVs each. Then 3.

Once both pokemon in the day care have at least three 31 IVs. you can breed until you hatch one acceptable for your team.

Notes/Tips/Whatever the hell these are:
- Elekid, like any other "baby" pokemon, cannot breed until it evolves. I'm too lazy to look up how it evolves, but make sure you keep several copies of all the required materials. So that you don't have to interrupt your journey to buy a stone or something. Especially considering how quickly your money dissappears when breeding like this

- Keep in mind the importance of each stat on each pokemon... do you really care about Heracross' special attack IV, or Snorlax's speed IV?

- Throughout your breeding, make sure to mark and keep male pokemon, one for each egg group, with 3+ 31 IVs. That way, for example, if you later decide to breed a magmar, you already have a male elekid with great IVs, pretty much cutting your work in half

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

I just registered to being able to reply to this guide.

Anyway, first of all, this guide has so far helped me heaps. I've only just started breeding my very first Pokemon though, but to move on...

I was just wondering, has anyone been able to find a Running Methos that works in Diamond and Pearl? I got rather annoyed with the Mass hatching method, with only 42 eggs, just because I felt like wasting timez when waiting for new eggs to be made...

On a second note, something I've also been wondering about, if you have a level 1 PKMN with an egg move, and you use it to breed, in the end for a hatchling that has the Nature, Ability, Moves and IV's you want; by that time it'll have levelled up so much, that most likely it'll have forgotten it's egg move already? Or do PKMNs no longer learn their level up moves in the daycare?


Thank you in advance,
~ Martel

 

[Peterko]

yes I have, but didn´t have the mood to add it

anyway, if you breed internal egg step counter 20 pokémon (most have this) take an egg after 765 steps (just use the step counter pokétch thing) and after a while the first egg will hatch regulary on step 765

for 40 internal egg step counter pokémon (larvitar, gible, chansey, bagon etc.), take an egg after 1275 steps

for internal egg step counter 10 pokémon, take an egg after you walk 510 steps

for internal egg step counter 30 pokémon, take an egg after you walk 1020 steps

all of these work only with a magma armor/flame body pkmn in you party

so

IESC 10 = take egg after 510 steps
IESC 20 = take egg after 765 steps
IESC 30 = take egg after 1020 steps
IESC 40 = take egg after 1275 steps (-2, -2, -2, -2, first egg hatches, -2, -2, -2, -2, second hatches, -2, -2, -2, -2, third hatches, -2, -2, -2, -2, fourth hatches, -2, -2, -2, -2, fifth hatches, everytime the first egg in your party hatches, the IESC for the other 4 pkmn isn´t lowered -> it´s clarified in the guide, anyway)

EDIT: yes if you use a low level pkmn with an egg move it will lose it, so you have to make sure not to withdraw it from the daycare until you get a better parent or the baby you want (yeah sometimes you have to sacrifice a good parent to get a better one)

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

Yes, but is there a route, like stated for Emerald, that'll make a loop that works perfectly, including the steps to get the new egg and depositing a hatched PKMN?


EDIT:

EDIT: yes if you use a low level pkmn with an egg move it will lose it, so you have to make sure not to withdraw it from the daycare until you get a better parent or the baby you want (yeah sometimes you have to sacrifice a good parent to get a better one)

Oh, they learn/forget the moves the moment you get them back. I thought they lkearned them the moment they'd actually had levelled up in the daycare...

 

[Peterko]

ok, sorry I forgot...the route for IESC 20 is take egg from day care grandpa, bike right til the breeding route, bike up (1), down (2), up (3), down (4), up (5), down (6), bike back to the day care house, the egg should hatch 2 steps before the PC (only after they hatch regulary, you have to make sure you take an egg after 765 steps for the first eight or something like that)...after that you just count the number of lengths (easier than watching the pokétch if you watch TV or do other things)

the breeding route is 123 steps long btw., shouldn´t be a problem to know what/where it is

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

Thanks Peterko. Sorry to have bothered you with this...

EDIT: I can't seem to talk to the day care man at 1275 steps, I always end up with an even amount of steps when I'm in a square next to him... (I go up/down 10 times; whereas for the IESC 20 you get a total of 767 steps per loop (meaning to the PC), you get either 1259 (10 steps to follow + returning) or 1375 (11 steps to follow + returning) steps. I can't get this to work *head desk*.

Is the reason that you have to talk to him at 765 steps exactly so you don't lose a single step?

 

[obi]

Is "turning in place" considered a step?

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

It isn't, if at least you can trust the step counter function 100%.

 

[freaktron]

I don't really understand how to do the running method in DP, but let me try to get this straight with something I have been attempting recently.

Female Abra x/x/x/x/x/x + Male Medicham x/x/x/x/x/31 = Male Abra x/x/x/x/x/31
Male Abra (0-3)/(2-5)/16/x/(7/8)/31 + Female Drowzee (28/29)/31/(18/19)/x/30/1-3 = Male Drowzee w/ Psycho Cut 5/31/(12/13)/x/7/31
Male Drowzee 5/31/(12/13)/x/7/31 + Female Meditite (different ID than the Drowzee's) 14/(28/29)/27/x/31/9 = ?/31/?/x/?/31

That's what i'm aiming for here. How many Meditite on average do you think it would take for me to obtain a Meditite like that? I already hatched at least 17 Meditite this morning, and this was the only good one out of them I obtained:

Jolly nature, 22/29/12/x/22/31

Yeah.

edit-if it helps, here are the other Female Jolly Meditites I obtained, but they all have the same ID as the Drowzee with Psycho Cut:
Jolly Meditites:
1. 1-4 HP, 28-30 Attack, 5-7 Defense, 0-2 Sp Atk, 31 Sp Def, 27-29 Speed
2. 1-4 HP, 3-5 Attack, 30 Defense, 24-27 Sp Atk, 19-22 Sp Def, 20-22 Speed
3. 30 HP, 13-16 Attack, 16-19 Defense, 13-19 Sp Atk, 13-15 Sp Def, 14-17 Speed
4. 15-17 HP, 20-23 Attack, 31 Defense, 9 Sp Atk, 20-22 Sp Def, 29 Speed

I'm aiming for 31 Attack/Speed and a 30/31 in at least one defensive stat.

 

[Peterko]

x/31/x/x/x/31 + x/x/x/x/x/x -> x/31/x/x/x/31 = 1830/30 720 = 5.95703125% = 1:17

it doesn´t mean that you will always get it in 17 eggs...I say soft reset a female meditite with 31special defense and either 31 attack or speed, use it as a new parent and you will have a 1:54 (I think) chance to get 31at/sD/speed...if you don´t need 31 special defense just get a female with max speed and or attack and use that...ignore everything without alert to sounds, likes to thrash about or somewhat vain chara

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

I've been using the running method for DP now for a while, but I have a different questions now. Simply, do you IV check every pokemon that you hatch? Or how do you descide if it's worth IV checking?

 

[Reflect Suicune]

blah blah blah mathematics blah
...ignore everything without alert to sounds, likes to thrash about or somewhat vain chara

The problem with doing that is that the characteristics are randomly selected... you could have a meditite with 31 in attack, speed, and special attack, and the characteristic could be "Mischievous". It isn't likely, but it is possible, and breeding is tedious and long enough already that I would hate to release a great pokemon just because it happened to have the wrong 31 IV characteristic.

 

[Peterko]

I was breeding gibles today and yesterday after a 2 month break...you´re right silver shadow, I also check other possible max characteristics if the other IVs can be max as well

parents were
dragonite: 30/31/26/31/30/31
gible: 23/31/22/31/31/31

as you can see, there´s a high probability that the baby inherits 31 sA as both parents have it, so I had to check mischievus (believe me, there were a lot of them) and I even got capable of taking hits a few times

to answer your question marter yggdrasill, the best thing to watch for is if a lv.1 baby has one or more IVs that show 20+, or at least 10+

for example if gible lv.1 neutral or positive speed is 6, you know the IV is 16+, if sD is also 6, that means the IV is 10+, so everytime an egg hatches I go to the PC, take a look at the chara and stats and decide if it is worth checking (1. if it is a possible max IV chara and 2. if speed/sD stats are 6)
...no, I don´t IV check each good looking baby right away, I deposit it and wait til I have 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 etc. til I check them - there will be a lot of good looking babies the better parents you have, so it really is not worth IV checking one at a time


oh and the running method for IESC 40 pkmn (gible) is: take egg, bike down (1), up (2), down (3), up (4), down (5), up (6), down (7), up (8), down (9), up (10), now you bike back to the daycare, but turn right just before the door, bike right til you hit the house on the opposite side of the road and back to the daycare, enter, your egg should hatch two steps before the PC (or 4, dunno)...after a while it´s not hard to do (or you can just bike down after #10 until the egg hatches but the way back to the PC is a bit longer then)

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

Peterko, if you just go straight in the Daycare house, after step 10, go straight to the pc, then you go up & down twice (4 steps every time), and you'll hit 1275 steps right in front of the PC.

How do you find out those IV's at level 1 =\ they seem to be waaay to cropped together (as is, stat is Z, then IV can range from X-Y), to be very useful =S ...

Well, 'good parents', I was stuck with a Ditto with perfect Att/Def IV, and a Bagon with perfect HP/Speed IV (didn't need perfect Def IV), anyway this is the Bagon I have now descided to end with, seeing as it's good enough, and it's not for competitive battling (and I definetly understood that I'm not breeder-material, sigh):

Bagon - #371 (Adamant)
HP: 30
Att: 31
Def: 27 - 29
SpA: 14 - 19
SpD: 30
Speed: 22


And regarding characteristics, it's not random which one is shown... For example, your Parent Dragonite should show the characteristic "Likes to trash about". And your Gible parent as well. If it shows "Likes to trash about", it should mean that the Att IV is the highest (let us presume it clearly means 31), and then that Def, SpAtt, SpDef and Speed can also be 31. However the HP IV can at a max be 30.

Or at least that's how I understood it, PLEASE correct me if this is incorrect...


Besides, with those parents of yours, what are you looking for to breed that is better anyway :| ...

 

[Peterko]

I got a 29/31/31/9/31/31 jolly female gible a few hrs ago btw. and I´m very happy :)

the characteristics are random when there is more of the same max IV - my pal parked 31hp/at/sD/speed camerupt has "somewhat vain" for example, that dragonite has "alert to sounds" I think, the baby gible has "likes to trash about"...do you understand?

 

[Martel_Yggdrasill]

Great, that means that I possibly trew out a lot of good breeds -_-' ... At the same time it means that you'll (I'll) have a lot more Pokemons to IV check when hatched =\ ...

 

[cim]

Sorry for the bump, but at the Egg Counter 10 section, Manapmy should be replaced with Phione. Other than that it's easy to follow and very detailed. Now I can raise a perfect Medicham by breeding with two dittos in attack and speed and jolly, then I can simply breed a female Cham with a Kadabra and I have Psycho Cut Good Medicham! Thank you!

Also, it would be awesome if your Level 5 Chart included Jirachi, since most people get one from Colloseum's Bonus Disc, which gives em out at Level 5 with random stats IIRC.

 

[X-Act]

Actually no. A Phione egg starts with egg counter 40. The Manaphy egg starts with egg counter 10. Nothing's wrong.

 

[Peterko]

the 230-instead-of-255-steps-thing happens to me again today...I´m sure it was not there yesterday as I did the same thing - soft reseted for a female 31sA/sD/speed modest togepi which I got today, but it needed a shorter distance than yesterday (1380 steps = 6 x 230)

because of this, it can´t be affected by the number of eggs you hatch, as it was the same egg

now I´m using the new one female togetic as the mother and the 230 steps are still applied...so it´s not affected by the mother (from emerald)

I´ve withdrawn the father and the last egg hatched after 1380 steps, used that one as the new parent after evolving it...and the first egg needed 1380 steps

so there is only one reason I can think of that could cause this: the date

maybe this will last a day and jump back tomorrow hmm, we´ll see