Past Gen RNG Research

#26
Ok, I want to help too. I've been testing this new RNG on the eevee that Bill gives you.
And I can confirm that this eevee is abusable (I got a shiny one) and is generated as a method 1 pokemon with a starting frame of 3 (not confirmed).
Well, if someone could double check the starting frame it would be great since I am not 100% sure, I just did the save state as soon as I entered the game.
As ClikC (thank you) said the lower right radio station advance the frame by 1. (that's how I advanced the frame)
Also, there is a girl in Bill's house who can advance the frame, but I took the eevee before she moved.

I'll post if I find something new, good luck to everyone who is testing. ;)
 
#27
Now that you mention a pokemon you are given, I did some tests on the shuckle you receive. The shuckle IVs are preset. I am not sure if it is the same in all the games, or if it is generated when you defeat the gym leader or at some other point in time.
 
#28
Now that you mention a pokemon you are given, I did some tests on the shuckle you receive. The shuckle IVs are preset. I am not sure if it is the same in all the games, or if it is generated when you defeat the gym leader or at some other point in time.
I haven't checked, but according to certain sites. You get given that pokemon to look after from an in game trainer. It will most likely have predetermined nature and stats, as-well as that trainers OT and IDno. Probably preset in the ROM data of the game.

Red_Phoenix; can you do a quick check of your map for me? I want to know how many roaming pokemon are on your map screen (Both Kanto and Jhoto), particularly Jhoto, where you get that Eevee given to you.
 
#29
I haven't checked, but according to certain sites. You get given that pokemon to look after from an in game trainer. It will most likely have predetermined nature and stats, as-well as that trainers OT and IDno. Probably preset in the ROM data of the game.

Red_Phoenix; can you do a quick check of your map for me? I want to know how many roaming pokemon are on your map screen (Both Kanto and Jhoto), particularly Jhoto, where you get that Eevee given to you.
I still haven't unlocked Kanto since I just have four badges. As of now I have two roamers (Raikou and Entei) on my map.
 
#30
Well normally I would say that the Shuckle's IV's are set because it gets
the IV's of the Traded Pokemon. That was the case always before.
So try trading a Flawless Pokemon to recieve a Flawless Shuckle.
Maybe it's different now but from what I know that type of In game Trades
never changed so I would say:
Traded Pokemons IV's = Recieved Pokemons IV's

and btw Thx for the explanation with the method K. I resetted the Mewtwo normally and it has pretty decent IV's so I more than fine with it.
 
#31
I still haven't unlocked Kanto since I just have four badges. As of now I have two roamers (Raikou and Entei) on my map.
I think it's safe to say that the two roamers have advanced your frame for Eevee, and in-fact it's starting frame is 1.

If you want to confirm that and have back-up saves to work from, defeat/ capture Entei and Raikou, then collect Eevee again and check.

Well normally I would say that the Shuckle's IV's are set because it gets
the IV's of the Traded Pokemon. That was the case always before.
So try trading a Flawless Pokemon to recieve a Flawless Shuckle.
Maybe it's different now but from what I know that type of In game Trades
never changed so I would say:
Traded Pokemons IV's = Recieved Pokemons IV's

and btw Thx for the explanation with the method K. I resetted the Mewtwo normally and it has pretty decent IV's so I more than fine with it.
You don't trade for shuckle, you are given it to look after.
 
#32
Using the PokéGear's radio function, I alternated between clicking the bottom right hand button, and using the stylus to de-tune the radio (moving the circle to the center) and then clicking the lower right hand button again. This advanced the frame 1 at a time once I was close enough to my target frame using save states. However, as I previously showed, different stations may advance the RNG at different rates, so we need to test and see if a reliable way to advance frames can be found. It should be noted, when de-tuning the radio that accidently touching another station will advance the RNG, so be very careful.
Could you alternate between two stations using the 4 buttons instead of detuning it? Also, if you repeatedly tap a radio station button, does that advance the RNG?
 
#33
I think it's safe to say that the two roamers have advanced your frame for Eevee, and in-fact it's starting frame is 1.

If you want to confirm that and have back-up saves to work from, defeat/ capture Entei and Raikou, then collect Eevee again and check.
My bad, I completely forgot about the roamers that advance your starting frame.
Yeah, eevee's starting frame should be 1, thank you for correcting me.
 
#34
Could you alternate between two stations using the 4 buttons instead of detuning it? Also, if you repeatedly tap a radio station button, does that advance the RNG?
Well, from mine and LF's experiences, the Top Right and Bottom Left buttons give random results of about 14~16 and 3~5 frames. I tried chaining buttons together, but to no great avail. The only consistent buttons are top left (no advances) and bottom right, which only advances you 1 frame if you keep selecting it after de-tuning.

Syberia obviously did some testing on lugia, and radio reception is none existent in the whirl islands. So further testing, and hopefully finding a newer and better method of advancing the offset is required.
 

ΩDonut

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#35
The Average delay is 480 - 510 about. You would find your seed by catching a method 1 pokemon. Any pokemon that go by the new method "k", you can't do until the alogorithim is found. Don't save after, obviously.
Does Method K, like Method J, basically use the Method 1 list and then have some technique to decide which Method 1 frame to land on? If so, you can find your seed catching a Method K Pokemon as well.
 
#36
Does Method K, like Method J, basically use the Method 1 list and then have some technique to decide which Method 1 frame to land on? If so, you can find your seed catching a Method K Pokemon as well.
Yes, in short. You can defiantly check what seed you are on. Of course it's not much use for knowing how far it is you have to go, which is why save states are being used.
 
#37
As of what I noticed is that the Method K advances in an unpredictable way so far casue I had differnet frame jumps
from what I just caught and stood right in front facing this "K" and the Frame "Jumps" were : 6,8,17,19,36,82,117,171 from my testing phase.

So as long as noone tells me how to look into the Gamescript I can't help
you further with that.

Hey Guys It would be great if someone could make a List of Interactable Pokes/ Gift / Legends and note their respective Method.
So a simple Question which Pokemon in the Game are generated by which Method?

Thx in advance
greets
DS
 
#38
Has someone tested that thing you get from the cientist on Unown Ruins? I don't quite remember the name, but each Unown has a 'word' assigned to it. It has two pages, so I was wondering if that would advance the RNG (I just pwned Whitney, so I can't RNG abuse Eevee or Dratini yet, and I can't play right now because my DS is at home).
 
#39
Method K (With Syncher) =

seed(0):
If even, synchronize
If odd:
target nature = seed(1) mod 24

And then pairs of RNG calls to generate PIDs to test.

Very much the same thing as Method J with slightly different math.

I am about 95% sure this is what I am seeing, just need to write some code and then verify. I'll probably release an interim version of RNG reporter to a few folks on IRC tonight who have time to test.

Yay me.

EDIT: For cases with no synchronizer:

target nature = seed(0) mod 24

And then pairs of RNG calls to generate PIDs to test.
 

ΩDonut

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is a Pokemon Researcheris a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#40
Has someone tested that thing you get from the cientist on Unown Ruins? I don't quite remember the name, but each Unown has a 'word' assigned to it. It has two pages, so I was wondering if that would advance the RNG (I just pwned Whitney, so I can't RNG abuse Eevee or Dratini yet, and I can't play right now because my DS is at home).
Just tested. Unown catalog page flipping does not do anything, sadly.

Good to hear Method K's been mostly finalized. Any idea how it works without a Syncher? (Wait, never mind, it's seed(1) mod 24, isn't it?)
 
#41
I strongly suspect it is just going to be the change from the old division to the MOD math, but I need to check into it. This is what happens when I get homw a few hours early and have no family around ;) They are here now, though, so I will probably have to wait until later tonight to finish testing this all.

You on IRC would be so nice. All the other researchers are there :P
 

ΩDonut

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#42
I'm getting some inconsistent results with the radio so far.

I'm starting on frame 3 (two runners out), and the radio is preset to start on the bottom-right station.

Click the top-left station: frame 4
Click the top-left station, then click bottom-right: frame 5
Click the top-left station, then click bottom-right, then click top-left: frame 3
Click the top-left station, then click bottom-right, then click top-left: frame 4

I'll be doing some more tests tonight. Normally I have a difficult time connecting to IRC at work, which is where I am a lot because I only have dial-up at home. So that's why I'm not on IRC. But I'll see if I can be there tonight. Which room?
 
#43
I have had problems getting the radio to do much of anything, but I may not be doing it right. . . #smogonwifi, #smogon, #stark, or the indie scoop if you want to help out. I just finished adding Method K to RNG Reporter, but it needs some serious testing since I am having some issues capturing legendaries.

I will PM you the link shortly.
 

ΩDonut

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#44
After checking my original Silver (which HOLY SHIT still works, most people's internal battery died three years ago), I rediscovered that some of the radio programs change depending on the day of the week. So, for consistency, people should also record that when testing the radio. I think it's the bottom-right station that does.

Some of the programs choose Pokemon and phrases at random, which is probably why the RNG advances. It also might mean that the RNG will keep advancing if you leave a station playing.

EDIT: Yeah, I just turned on the radio without clicking anything, and I let the song finish playing. The RNG advanced 3 frames without any other intervention.

Moreover, the radio script doesn't restart if you change stations. It will start where it left off before you switched stations. I think this pretty much shoots down flipping through stations as a controllable method for RNG advancement. I *could* figure out how far the RNG advances through one playthrough of a song, but that's so time-consuming you might as well keep 5 Pokemon in your party and walk 17152 steps to advance the frame by 670 or whatever.

I'll look into talking to your Pokemon next.
 

ΩDonut

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is a Pokemon Researcheris a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#45
Double-posting because a) it's been a while and b) this is worthy.

I think the responses from talking to your Pokemon are key. I'm pretty certain that each individual response advances the RNG by a set amount. Well, most of them anyway - there's one that seems to increase by a variable amount, a "dancing box" response. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'll post my results once I finish testing all of the responses.

Once we figure out what response we get on which frame, we can have RNG Reporter list the pattern of Pokemon responses to determine if you've hit the correct seed, like with coin flips. It could also say "talk to your Pokemon x times" to get the frame you want.

EDIT: Here's the data on some of the things I've tested. I won't have any more time tonight to do stuff with this, so any other interested people can make use of this.

Code:
Seed		Delay	Frame	Increase Expected	Method
EF1401F2		3	0			open radio only
			3	0			open radio only
41601FC			4	1			switch to upper left
251601FC	499	5	2			switch to upper left, back to lower right
121701FA	497	3	0			switch to upper left, back to lower right, switch to upper left
FE170238	559	4	1			switch to upper left, back to lower right, switch to upper left
20401F4		491	7	4			switch to upper left, back to lower right, switch to upper left
190601FE	501	17	14			speak to Pokémon (… response)
F21501FE	501	17	14			speak to Pokémon (… response)
1501F4		491	22	19			speak to Pokémon (!… response)
41501FE		501	25	22			speak to Pokémon (dancing box)
381501FE	501	36	33			speak to Pokémon (?, yes, item gotten)
501501F6	493	45	42	41		speak to Pokémon (!… response, then dancing box)
F21601F2	489	36	33			speak to Pokémon (?, no, happy dance)
141601FC	499	41	38	38		speak to Pokémon (!… response) x2
41701F0		487	45	42	42		speak to Pokémon (… response) x3
11701F2		489	75	72	60		speak to Pokémon (!… response) x2, then dancing box
31170200	503	76	73			speak to Pokémon (happy dance)
EA0201FA	497	29	26			speak to Pokémon (heart)
F0201F6		493	63	60	60		speak to Pokémon (!… response) x2, then dancing box
That last line makes me think the dancing box response isn't as variable as I thought - maybe I accidentally did something to advance the RNG.
 

Syberia

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#46
Unfortunately, it appears that walking 128 steps no longer works, at least in Suicune's area

EDIT: It's definitely doing something with no syncher, but with a syncher my results may be inconsistent
EDIT2: I see what's happening. With a seed of F30004C2, no syncher, and 3 roamers out, I get a starting frame of 4. With a syncher, playing from the same save state, I get a starting frame of 5. With a syncher, walking 256 steps, I get a frame of 15. Without, I get 14.

EDIT3: Maybe my calculations were off, as now I am getting a frame of 15 after walking 256 steps with 5 pokes in my party both with and without a syncher. However, in previous testing (with different seeds), I was getting an offset of 4 with a syncher, and either 4 or 5 without. This is weird.
 
#49
I'm currently trying to do this for the Dogs (the roaming ones). And I'm not sure if you know this: But I'm at the buttom of the tower, I walked 2304 steps with 3 pokemon, that should advance the frame 54, but when I caught the Dog, it was over 2000. Now going to test with 1 Pokémon.
I don't have HGSS, but I've read from other posters who do have it that the area with the legendary beasts contains wild Pokemon, so the RNG will advance with every step and turn.
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#50
I don't have HGSS, but I've read from other posters who do have it that the area with the legendary beasts contains wild Pokemon, so the RNG will advance with every step and turn.
Yeah, but you'd think Viletung would notice if he had kept running into wild Pokemon or had to use Repel over and over. I think the floor where the dogs are is a dead zone, but the floor above it has wild Pokemon.

Still doesn't explain the >2000 frame, though.
 

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