Patriotism

[maddog]

Patriotism is defined as having a love for one’s country. I always believed in serving my great country, not necessarily through joining the military, but by respecting my country and its flag. I believe in maxims such as “My country right or wrong” and I do support the troops. But, for me, I was forced to take a more serious look at my beliefs after some events that happened at school.

So my high school has recently looked at some state laws they forgot about that call for a “Patriotic Exercise” every day during announcements. When I heard about it, knowing my beliefs, I was pretty excited. Sounds like a good idea: on Mondays and Fridays we say the pledge, and on the other days they can a brief patriotic quote. Sounds relativity painless, easy to do, right? Well, as soon as they announced this news, I heard groans of disappointment in our class. Is reciting the pledge twice a week such a painful activity? Apparently at my school, it is.

The students at my school have been asked, during the “Patriotic Exercise” to be respectful when other people are reciting the pledge, and to reverently stand up. Reciting the pledge is actually optional. And yet people don’t stand up at all, and most of those who do considered “forced” to. They even went as far to make a petition and asked people to write letters opposing it. That petition, at a school of only 950 students (about) got over 200 signatures, and the number of signatures are still growing. Their man reasons for making the petition was that “it was taking time out of class (so do the announcements) and that those who were truly “patriotic” would perform these duties outside of class, but last time I checked, I went to an American School: shouldn’t we support our own country?

So my question to you guys is: “What happened?” Why are people in America getting less patriotic and why? Is this the same way in other high schools? In college? In other countries? What is breaking everybody apart? The war? Or is the ideal of patriotism dying off in country? I really hope that people like me are not a dying breed, but as I look around, I seem to find fewer and fewer. This isn’t a question of Democrat or Republican; Conservative or Republican (or is it really a factor?), but rather a national spirit is dying in the United States or elsewhere.

So what do you guys think? Do you see this spirit of nationalism declining as I do? Is there anything that can be done about it?

Discuss.

 

[Serynade]

Iraq certainly isn't helping.

 

[Glen]

i imagine a ridiculous huge debate to spring from this, but i have never liked patriotism and i doubt i ever will.

it harms way more than it helps, and for the obvious 'but it makes us feel good about ourselves' argument, i can safely say that if you feel your country makes up that much of your personality and who you are, youre lacking a few dimensions.

 

[obi]

I for one have a different idea of patriotism. The ideals of my country (freedom, equality, rule of law) are more important than the symbols used to represent it. Penn and Teller said this better than I ever could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETiXXf0ZqRQ&feature=related

The last line is cut off, it ends with "and the home of the brave"

 

[Hyra]

uh, because saying a pledge doesn't make you patriotic? I actually love the placement of my band class, we ignore announces and therefore, the pledge. I've done this for 4 years, it doesn't make me less patriotic. I don't feel mindless repetition is ever good, especially when it comes to politics.

I would write more, but my brain isn't in a coherent writing mood.

 

[cookie]

I'm not from the US but I would imagine a lot of Americans feel less patriotic in light of their country's dishonourable foreign policy; I know I'm not proud of the fact that the UK invaded Iraq when public opinion was against it.

it harms way more than it helps, and for the obvious 'but it makes us feel good about ourselves' argument, i can safely say that if you feel your country makes up that much of your personality and who you are, youre lacking a few dimensions.

To add to this, I feel patriotism, with ignorance, breeds xenophobic attitudes towards the rest of the world. It starts off as 'our country is good' and develops into 'we're better than other countries'.

Besides, is there any point in patriotism? It's not like unpatriotic people would sit and do nothing if their country got invaded or something.

 

[Hyra]

Besides, is there any point in patriotism? It's not like unpatriotic people would sit and do nothing if their country got invaded or something.

Well, its more patriotic people view it as you must support a country, so they expect you to support the invading country if you don't support your home country. They don't get the libertarian view of "no gov = good" Not that I subscribe to either, but appearances are all that matters in politics

 

[spies]

i imagine a ridiculous huge debate to spring from this, but i have never liked patriotism and i doubt i ever will.

it harms way more than it helps, and for the obvious 'but it makes us feel good about ourselves' argument, i can safely say that if you feel your country makes up that much of your personality and who you are, youre lacking a few dimensions.

Well in the country I live in, having a "patriotic" attitude is a great thing. When you're dominated so much by the most powerful nation in the world, any kind of idea that could make everyone in a country stick together is welcome.

I guess in developed countries this isn't as necessary and you don't need that "pack mentality".

Or maybe I have a totally wrong concept of patriotism.

 

[Berserker]

@maddog: the petition for the purpose of wasting time in class is ridiculous. I doubt anyone would sign something like this. You wrote that students merely had to stand up for the pledge, so why wouldn't they? It's just like writing essays; you don't want to do them, but they're part of the school policy. I'm assuming that you left out the REAL reason for the petition, which I would blindly guess to be that the pledge has 'under God' or somehting like that.

Basically, to review, symbols are 'binding forces' for an entire nation. Certainly, if you're in a large country, not everyone is going to be an educated, philosophical individual. Everyone is going to be different. Therefore, to avoid anxiety, people want to see with their own eyes others who support the same cause that they do, pay taxes for the same things that they do, and feel same in their own home. Symbols, such as the pledge and flag, represent to the majority (not statistically nor literally, but definition-wise) that you don't have to worry about the guy next to you being so different and alienated from you; there's at least one thing to unite people.

That being said, it's pathetic in human beings to want to feel 'united' through visual means. But, how else are you going to tell people that 'hey, I'm an American, we live in the same country, even though we have different ideals, we're not going to tear apart but we're going to coexist!' I dunno. Some people just don't like that they're being forced to feel united thorugh such a primitive method. Whatever, I'm kinda tired so I don't want to type so much.

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

The sad thing is is that many people don't appreciate the lifestyles they are allowed.

But what is worse is that the government and the media try to impose a "be patriotic or you're a bad person" feeling everywhere.



I love my country, but I hate my government.

 

[Serynade]

Patriotism, I think, is just the American term for Nationalism.

 

[goldemblem]

In Mexico in almost all schools from elementary to high school we made a ceremony on mondays where students have to sing the national hymn and give honors to the flag, in USA i dont think its about Patriotism; Americans are just lazy. >_>
Or maybe they don't care about the country

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

Being patriotic or not has nothing to do with being lazy. Moreso, apathetic.

 

[Dan the Man]

I grew up in a school system where we had to say the pledge/national anthem everyday. No one really looked at it as being patriotic or anything, its just something else that you do at school. I remember it being an easy test grade in elementary school for memorizing it.

Patriotism isn't something that can be forced on people, its an ideal they have to instill in themselves.

 

[Atlas]

i hated standing everyday in class listening to "o canada." its too much of a bother. especially if youre sporting an erection.

 

[Glen]

Well in the country I live in, having a "patriotic" attitude is a great thing. When you're dominated so much by the most powerful nation in the world, any kind of idea that could make everyone in a country stick together is welcome.

I guess in developed countries this isn't as necessary and you don't need that "pack mentality".

Or maybe I have a totally wrong concept of patriotism.

but in your example, the unity you find in patriotism only fills holes that were caused by the patriotism of others run amok in the first place.

thats like saying you believe gun ownership is a good thing as it allows you to protect yourself from other peoples' guns.

 

[majesty]

I am Canadian. I feel very patriotic about:

Hating Toronto
Hating Quebec
Ripping on Newfoundland
Vimy Ridge
Ummm....

screw it, I'm Canadian. We are all united in our ability to make fun of ourselves rather than blind patriotism.


I honestly believe in western culture the idea of flag waving patriotism is dying down (Except in Texas). We are such an apathetic generation who has had very little to actually fight for. Another World War would certainly fix our patriotism up, but it'd have to be more legit than that crap they call Iraq.

 

[Vineon]

I am patriotic to the extreme. I am every day active on many forums related to Quebec and its forever ungoing debate for sovereignty.

I read nearly every day about the subject and make sure not to miss any new developpement related to local politics.

Even my fantasy hockey team on smogon goes as far as only having players born in Quebec and I've had my flag in my signature for a while.

I am probably making an obsession of all this but I cant help feeling it is important.

 

[Pneuma]

I love my country, but I hate my government.

Exactly as you should. This is the quintessential sentiment the founding fathers shared, or so I've always learned.

Patriotism to me was just defined as caring about the well-being of your country near to your own well-being. If people are running out and dying, there's a problem almost as great as if I were running out and dying. And it's in my best interest to make sure the gov't doesn't go play in traffic while under my watch as if I were the one on the side of the road.

I'm still young yet, only twenty, I imagine I'll care more and more as I own more property to protect, or lives that I'm responsible for. It definitely bugs me to see people shy away from politics, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[sbc]

Patriotism would never happen in the UK, some people don't even know the first verse of the national anthem (there seems to be more black, tamil, indian, pakistanis and eastern europeans than actual English people)

 

[Steeler]

Well with where the United States is headed these days, most people are less proud of where their country is than decades ago.

 

[Toothache]

I actually can't understand the idea of patriotism. Last I checked it was a round world. Also, just because you were born and raised in one country doesn't make you any better or worse of a person, unless you develop a superiority complex over your country of birth, in which case it makes it worse.

 

[Vineon]

I actually can't understand the idea of patriotism. Last I checked it was a round world. Also, just because you were born and raised in one country doesn't make you any better or worse of a person, unless you develop a superiority complex over your country of birth, in which case it makes it worse.

Who says patriotism means feeling better or worse about where you were born compared to others? Thats really not how you should define patriotism and it is definitely not the way I see it.

It's being proud of what you are and where you are from. Proud of the people around you and what they accomplished. As a matter of fact, it does sting me a little bit when people bash their own birth places because I'm just not willing to do something like that, personally.

I dont consider my corner of the planet to be any better than any other.

 

[JimBob]

At my schools, we are required to stand up and be reverent during a moment of silence and the Pledge every day, and no one complains. We may not say the pledge, or pray during the moment of silence (I say "...and justice for all" at the end of every pledge in tribute to 80s Metallica, personally), but no one really has a problem with any of it.

I know I'm not the most patriotic guy out here, and though I complain about American government and society a lot, I don't hate my country. I don't think I'm better than nonamericans, either. I think I show my patriotism by doing what I think would be best to help my country.

People who don't do that are just lazy, which is one trait that too many Americans have.

 

[Ambitions]

http://www.911revisited.com/video.html

This if fucking Patriotism.