SV OU PEAKED #1 (2101 ELO) – Hazard Stack Stall

[SupaGmoney]

Hazard Stack Stall



https://pokepast.es/08e51af0cc840de7


Table of Contents

• Introduction
• Proof of Peak
• Team Members
• Threats
• Replays
• Acknowledgments

Introduction

At first glance, this team appears to be just Ultimate Stall with instead of . Due to the smaller Pokédex and meta consolidation of Gen 9 pre-DLC, successful stall teams will usually have similar compositions because certain Pokémon fill critical roles so well.

However, the sets on this team are very different from Ultimate Stall, and as a result, this team plays extremely differently.


In my earlier tests of stall teams, I noticed that when I lost games, it was because my opponent was able to switch around my team and I would have no way to consistently punish them, ultimately leading to my opponent landing a decisive critical hit or chipping my team sufficiently enough for one sweeper to clean up. In addition to this issue, I also felt that the current stall sets were not optimized for the meta.


As a result, the goal of this team was not only to be able to check every single threat in the meta, but also to be able to establish a secondary win condition that wasn’t just PP stall.

Thanks to the lack of viable hazard control in a -filled meta as well as the overall meta shift to predominantly HO and BO teams featuring as the only form of hazard control, I knew hazard stack would be the way to establish my win condition.


For a Gen 9 OU team with the name “Hazard Stack Stall,” you will notice that we lack . In fact, Highv0ltag3 posted his version of a hazard stack stall team which does include . As a result, you’re probably wondering: how do we keep hazards up with an otherwise passive and offensively unthreatening team?

The answer is simple. We don’t.

While is great on most teams, its defensive typing and bulk are not sufficient for Gen 9 stall in my opinion. However, unlike most teams, we can get hazards up at any point during the game without worrying about momentum thanks to our stall core. Therefore, our goal is simply to wear down opposing hazard control by forcing them to constantly switch in on hazards to remove them while risking being poisoned/burned and/or being trapped by .


Finally, this team has no explicit hazard control. However, with 6x Boots + Tera Flying , this is rarely an issue. For more information on how to approach the hazard game, please refer to Highv0ltag3’s excellent guide in his Ultimate Stall RMT or ask me in the comments.


Proof of Peak

With this team, I was able to sustain #1 on the Gen 9 OU Ladder for the majority of 3 weeks.

Before I used this team, my GXE was around 76%. This team alone got it to 82.5%. If I had to guess, I would say I had an 88-90% GXE while using this team.

Peak game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1835275022-z3lc1f7uohptr7tpwxffqep7q7meddtpw


Team Members

The role of is the same as always: to check set-up special sweepers.

However, a huge optimization on this set that I made is the addition of Amnesia over Haze. Rather than use Haze to remove boosts which already ignores, Amnesia allows to abuse Unaware by just simply sitting on set-up Pokémon, allowing it to preserve recover PP and set up Spikes while the opponent sets up in vain.

Following this RMT, my set should be adopted in any future stall team with because it’s just that good.

Most notably, this set counters , which gives other stall teams huge problems, as well as , , and any other Pokémon that relies on Nasty Plot/Calm Mind/Quiver Dance etc.

Tera Steel is used over Tera Psychic to resist Psyshock from and as well as Stored Power from while maintaining Fairy resistance. Poison Jab is run over Earthquake to allow us to beat Taunt/Calm Mind while still retaining ’s ability to inflict status if necessary.

Some defense EVs are included to help survive attacks like Psyshock on switch-in and give us the chance to tera and Recover if necessary.

Ever since it was introduced, no stall team is truly complete without Big Stall. Toxic Spikes basically guarantees the win against any team without hazard control or a grounded poison. It also forces switches and eases prediction, giving us turns to regenerate and/or heal other Pokémon. Toxic lets us inflict status on Pokémon that are immune to Toxic Spikes like or on a switch prediction.

preserves the double regenerator core, allowing us to beat and deny most set-up attempts when used in combination with and . Maximum physical bulk lets us survive pretty much any hit and tera Fairy is used to beat Banded and Banded if necessary.

The only Pokémon that is unchanged from any other stall team. This set is truly incredible on stall and big shout out to juliusfunnel for popularizing it. Absorbs knock offs and passes massive wishes to and which can only heal by Rest otherwise. also functions as a standalone physical wall thanks to Chilling Water. For more details, see the Ultimate Stall RMT.

Probably the best pure physical wall to date. Because we lack burn support, is used much more often than on other stall teams, especially due to the dominance of in the tier.

Most notably, this set forgoes Water STAB in favor of Avalanche. Avalanche is especially great for beating Tera Flying , , and Tera Flying .

Tera Fighting helps beat Tera Dark without being weak to Low Kick.

Undoubtedly the best special wall of all time, is used for switching into Pokémon that cannot, such as Specs and Specs .

Calm Mind is also used to wall set-up sweepers, allowing and to split the special wall duties depending on the matchup and preserve recovery PP.

Most notably, Flamethrower is used to punish physical attackers like and that think they have a free switch-in to . It hits pretty hard after a few boosts and prevents from being completely passive against and other Ghost types. It also avoids contact with and the 10% burn chance is an added bonus.

Maximum special bulk is all that needs in this meta. Tera water walls Specs in sun/rain, Specs in sun, and Specs .

Often times, the opposing team is too offensive and and cannot risk taking damage to set up hazards. completely solves this problem thanks to its incredible bulk and fills the unique role of being able to set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock while being viable on stall.

excels at disrupting Volt Switch cores and punishing with hazards. also completely shuts down Psyspam, forcing to tera while still living a +2 hit and bringing it down to its Sash, allowing and to clean up easily. can also switch in on passive opposing Pokémon like and to set up hazards without fear of status thanks to Rest.

The most underrated part about is that with Rest, it completely walls Hex/Will-O-Wisp/Dragon Darts and Block without needing tera, both of which are massive problems for other stall teams.

People also seem to forget that has 110 base attack and stay in on it when they really shouldn’t. Even with 0 attack EVs, it 2HKOs as well as and after hazard chip.

Finally, tera Steel can be used to deny 's Mortal Spin as well as a last resort to beat if nothing else is healthy enough to make the switch-in. Tera Fairy and Tera Ghost are also potential options on .


Threats

With optimized sets, proper use of hazards, and tera, many team structures which threaten other stall teams are much less threatening to this team. That being said, no team is unbeatable.


Strong Grass types, such as , , and

Tera Flying on is your best bet. For and only, use Chilling Water to bring them to -1 attack then Regenerator stall them with + . If possible, bait Spore into a Pokémon you won’t need in the matchup or . Keeping Toxic Spikes up in these matchups is also extremely beneficial. I’ve included some replays of this team beating the above threats.


Electric Terrain abusers such as and

As usual, get up as many hazards as you can and use Tera Flying or Tera Fairy respectively. You can also use to eat a hit and try to inflict poison with Poison Jab. Once and are statused, they are very manageable. A replay vs. is included.




The only Pokémon that can outright break through , presents an unfavorable matchup for any stall team. Prioritize Toxic Spikes at all costs and switch aggressively to if you predict will come in to maximize damage on it before it boosts. I have included a replay of this team beating .


Replays


Vs.
Peak Game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1835275022-z3lc1f7uohptr7tpwxffqep7q7meddtpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1825164541-2hs4p67pjtb96takdeq4cdtbgp2icqxpw


Vs. +
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1826617223-xnmrjf6ttsid9ouwcvfe3gy228iohghpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1833635521-y05n6i6tm9g76dvndq00jxjb51kuinypw


Vs.
Game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1826127818-41zampepolx31h70j2dx8vi842v9qf7pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1834954163-hl1jow42wnajtyr5cmehvshbaze4vpypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1831292538-ap679n8j67ets8vmgbxyqrojwos25gopw


Vs. Block
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1818822210-y5rbwv71tpbjic5nbco79ck4px7kcdopw


Vs. +
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1837875967-oev5tkklassf8bjonvyor6tpu7r74lmpw


Vs. Boots
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1826635694-oe3wsal2hn3duat8c6xozn70azfo5pnpw


Vs.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824373343-zfrcptj7yamb03cpr7o0ek01rlsmk4zpw


Acknowledgements

Many thanks to juliusfunnel for pioneering what has come to be Gen 9 OU stall.

Also thanks to Highv0ltag3 for organizing the stall community. I only recently learned about the stall Discord but I am now a part of it.


Finally, while this RMT is a great starting point, it is far from comprehensive. Feel free to ask me any questions about the team or specific matchups in the comments or on Discord. The link to the Stall Discord can be found in the Ultimate Stall RMT.

 

[Weirdhamster]

Absolutely sick team, i love the creative sets, especially flamethrower blissey which i’ve used quite a bit, it’s really relieving to be able to hit hisuian zoroark and burn tusks switching in.

But i do wonder how you consistently deal with kingambit though, tera fighting dondozo does reisist it’s stab kowtow cleave, but with iron heads 30% chance to flinch disallowing dondozo to rest and tera fairy resisting body press and having good bull for avalanche, are there any other way for this team to deal with the different kingambit teras?

 

[SupaGmoney]

Absolutely sick team, i love the creative sets, especially flamethrower blissey which i’ve used quite a bit, it’s really relieving to be able to hit hisuian zoroark and burn tusks switching in.

But i do wonder how you consistently deal with kingambit though, tera fighting dondozo does reisist it’s stab kowtow cleave, but with iron heads 30% chance to flinch disallowing dondozo to rest and tera fairy resisting body press and having good bull for avalanche, are there any other way for this team to deal with the different kingambit teras?

Tera on is not necessary unless specifically uses Tera Dark. Otherwise, you can just remain a Water type so Iron Head is less likely to be an issue. Furthermore, if teras into anything else, it'll be vulnerable to poison and hazards, so you just need to force it out once and/or switch in on while it uses Swords Dance and use Toxic.

 

[1LDK]

Bro amnesia clodsire?
eyoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that's HEAT, really cool set, I would say toxapex needs 52 atak eves and gunk shot tho (its a joke)
so yeah, good work

 

[bludgeoning angel]

based stall gz on the peak

 

[Soosthemoose]

Another win for big stall, thanks for innovating so much in the stall community

 

[SupaGmoney]

Bro amnesia clodsire?
eyoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that's HEAT, really cool set, I would say toxapex needs 52 atak eves and gunk shot tho (its a joke)
so yeah, good work

Ty! Amnesia is insanely good. I fully expect it to become standard for all stall teams and it might even become a thing outside of stall too.

 

[Lobby Eeveee]

RestTalk+Curse Dondozo has a much better haxorus matchup as it can mirror the DD boost

 

[SupaGmoney]

RestTalk+Curse Dondozo has a much better haxorus matchup as it can mirror the DD boost

While Curse does have a better matchup vs. , having only one attack on leaves it unable to perform the role of walling set-up physical sweepers to the degree that this team needs.

If you run only Body Press, you will lose to Taunt + Tera Flying every time.
If you run only Avalanche, you will lose to almost every time and it makes the matchup vs. set-up much more difficult.
If you run only Waterfall, the matchups listed above are all very difficult and you run into issues against some uncommon sets such as Encore .


Additionally, if you were to run Body Press/Rest/Curse/Avalanche and no Sleep Talk, you will likely run into problems in the late game when has too many Supreme Overlord Boosts for you to Curse safely, resulting in being forced to spam Rest in hopes of stalling Kowtow Cleave PP, which is not the most favorable scenario for .

Curse and no Sleep Talk can be used if you Wish pass with correctly. There are definitely scenarios where this set can clutch games that the current set would not be able to win, but in my experience Body Press/Rest/Sleep Talk/Avalanche is the most consistent set.


Finally, hovers at around 1.0% usage across all Gen 9 OU ranking tiers, and it is even less common on the high ladder (0.08%). By contrast, (and by proxy Taunt + Tera Flying ) is at around 15% usage in 1825+ ELO and is at roughly 45% usage in 1825+ ELO.

In conclusion, this team cannot afford the opportunity cost of running Curse just to win a matchup that occurs less than 1.0% of the time and can still be won without Curse as I've demonstrated in the replays.

Happy to help if anyone has further questions on this team.

 

[Poke nerd]

This team took many turns away from regular stall teams, but worked surprisingly well.

Honestly, no ghold might be good on this specific team for hazard stacking, since while they're removing hazards, they could lose momentum, they could be chipped or statused, or even just flat out pp stalled of their defogs.

I found the unique dozo and clod sets extremely viable, and wouldn't be surprised to see them in many future stall teams!

The wish passing to in particular really appeals to me, since I love wish passing, which is another plus.

Honestly I don't see any major weaknesses in this team, even the scariest one ( in my opinion) can be handled fairly well by dozo.

This team does it all, can take care of anything, and I'd expect to see battles becoming 100+ 9 times out of 10 in high ladder.

Honestly really great job, nothing much to say here, apart from you could possibly experiment with dozo's tera to deal with some the mentioned threats, but you're current one has good reasoning.

You deserved that peak, and that means a lot coming from me, a person not fond of stall.

 

[NidoTheKing]

This hasn't been mentioned, but I feel it needs to be addressed before people get the wrong idea:

This core destroys this team.

Mixed Iron Valiant 2HKOs the majority of the team if not one-shot what's in sight, half of which can't do anything meaningful back to it, while the remainder of the team gets stonewalled by Corviknight, who repeatedly denies all of the entry hazards being set up with Defog because, as great as the team is at applying entry hazards, it doesn't have any means of invalidating entry hazard denial. Add in something like Heavy-Duty Boots Cyclizar, and there's nothing the team can do back while you systematically remove everything in sight.

This isn't to pull the wool over the achievement of topping the ladder with the team, mad props to you for that and disproving those who cried that Stall was dead in Gen 9. This is more to show a pretty clear weakness and that this isn't a textbook unbeatable cookie cutter Stall team that will cover everything and win no matter what.


Also, pardon me for being a nerd, but you could also adjust the Clodsire EVs to be Careful 116/0/148/0-/244+/0 instead. This spread looks weird, but it takes similar damage to the current spread of Careful 248/0/92/0-/168+/0 while giving it a lower base Hp to gain a higher percentage of health back from Wish. It also provides some other micro-optimizations such as reducing the amount of Hp that would be drained off Leech Seed and Drain Punch etc and is an even number indivisible by 8 which lets it use Recover to its fullest while not playing into Entry Hazards if Boots gets Knocked Off.

...what? I give a hard check to the team that topped OU ladder, but I'm not biased when it comes to EV optimization.

 

[SupaGmoney]

This team took many turns away from regular stall teams, but worked surprisingly well.

Honestly, no ghold might be good on this specific team for hazard stacking, since while they're removing hazards, they could lose momentum, they could be chipped or statused, or even just flat out pp stalled of their defogs.

I found the unique dozo and clod sets extremely viable, and wouldn't be surprised to see them in many future stall teams!

The wish passing to in particular really appeals to me, since I love wish passing, which is another plus.

Honestly I don't see any major weaknesses in this team, even the scariest one ( in my opinion) can be handled fairly well by dozo.

This team does it all, can take care of anything, and I'd expect to see battles becoming 100+ 9 times out of 10 in high ladder.

Honestly really great job, nothing much to say here, apart from you could possibly experiment with dozo's tera to deal with some the mentioned threats, but you're current one has good reasoning.

You deserved that peak, and that means a lot coming from me, a person not fond of stall.

Ty! Really appreciate the compliment. I definitely wouldn't want to play against this team either lol.

No is definitely a feature that can only be run on this kind of hazard stack stall. To elaborate more on the RMT, since is the meta hazard removal, is forced into a 50/50 of blocking Rapid Spin or being crippled for the rest of the game by Knock Off/Earthquake. A stall team simply cannot afford to risk that. To compensate for the lack of , this team focuses on overwhelming opposing hazard control instead. As you noted, every turn that an opponent takes to remove hazards is a turn that this team can use to heal or inflict status.

 

[SupaGmoney]

This hasn't been mentioned, but I feel it needs to be addressed before people get the wrong idea:

This core destroys this team.

Mixed Iron Valiant 2HKOs the majority of the team if not one-shot what's in sight, half of which can't do anything meaningful back to it, while the remainder of the team gets stonewalled by Corviknight, who repeatedly denies all of the entry hazards being set up with Defog because, as great as the team is at applying entry hazards, it doesn't have any means of invalidating entry hazard denial. Add in something like Heavy-Duty Boots Cyclizar, and there's nothing the team can do back while you systematically remove everything in sight.

This isn't to pull the wool over the achievement of topping the ladder with the team, mad props to you for that and disproving those who cried that Stall was dead in Gen 9. This is more to show a pretty clear weakness and that this isn't a textbook unbeatable cookie cutter Stall team that will cover everything and win no matter what.


Also, pardon me for being a nerd, but you could also adjust the Clodsire EVs to be Careful 116/0/148/0-/244+/0 instead. This spread looks weird, but it takes similar damage to the current spread of Careful 248/0/92/0-/168+/0 while giving it a lower base Hp to gain a higher percentage of health back from Wish. It also provides some other micro-optimizations such as reducing the amount of Hp that would be drained off Leech Seed and Drain Punch etc and is an even number indivisible by 8 which lets it use Recover to its fullest while not playing into Entry Hazards if Boots gets Knocked Off.

...what? I give a hard check to the team that topped OU ladder, but I'm not biased when it comes to EV optimization.

On paper, + certainly appears to be problematic for this team for the reasons you described. However, in practice, I don’t think that the matchup plays out that way.


Firstly, this team has plenty of counterplay to mixed .

The most direct is Tera Fairy . Mixed simply cannot 2HKO it.

Secondly, this team peaked during the hazard stack and Shed Tail meta when lead reached ~20% usage. After the Shed Tail ban, denying ’s Mortal Spin with is not as important. Therefore, as I suggested in the original RMT, is free to change Tera type to one that better suits this meta, such as Tera Fairy, or even Tera Ghost, which not only beats mixed but also blocks Rapid Spin.

Finally, while can 2HKO most of this team, it also requires good prediction. For example, if you use Moonblast on a switch, has entered safely and is free to set up hazards or go for Poison Jab, potentially crippling for the remainder of the game.


Rather than risk this, you will probably just switch to .

Similarly to the case of , this team forces to Defog every time it switches in and gradually chips it. has 24 Defog PP whereas this team has 160 total hazard PP. Mathematically, this team always wins the hazard war against Pressure .

Now let’s suppose you ran the proposed + to alleviate this issue. While this is an effective hazard removal core, it is extremely passive. Therefore, this team can regenerate and Wish pass freely while you are forced to remove Hazards. As a result, switching to or will undo any progress was able to make. If you try and double to stop this, will take hazard damage and will be able to regenerate, switch in, and Recover on the subsequent turn. Doubling also opens up to being predicted on the switch and being statused/heavily chipped. Basically, you end up in this catch-22 of trying to make progress while not getting chipped.

Finally, you also need to question how viable a + + core is in the first place. In my opinion, this core would not fare well on the ladder and is therefore not a team that I would expect to matchup against often.



Thank you for the EV optimization. I’m also a fan of running even more defense EVs over the original set to better live Psyshocks, especially after the Shed Tail ban. I would propose 248 HP / 120 Def / 140+ SpD, which would correspond to 116 HP / 182 Def / 210+ SpD.


I really appreciate the comment and you presented some great points. I would love to hear any counterpoints to my arguments above.


As always, I’m happy to discuss this team and matchups further in the comments. Even after the Shed Tail ban, I think that this team is still extremely strong in the current meta and can even be optimized further with slight tera type changes and EV changes.

 

[NidoTheKing]

On paper, + certainly appears to be problematic for this team for the reasons you described. However, in practice, I don’t think that the matchup plays out that way.


Firstly, this team has plenty of counterplay to mixed .

The most direct is Tera Fairy . Mixed simply cannot 2HKO it.

Secondly, this team peaked during the hazard stack and Shed Tail meta when lead reached ~20% usage. After the Shed Tail ban, denying ’s Mortal Spin with is not as important. Therefore, as I suggested in the original RMT, is free to change Tera type to one that better suits this meta, such as Tera Fairy, or even Tera Ghost, which not only beats mixed but also blocks Rapid Spin.

Finally, while can 2HKO most of this team, it also requires good prediction. For example, if you use Moonblast on a switch, has entered safely and is free to set up hazards or go for Poison Jab, potentially crippling for the remainder of the game.


Rather than risk this, you will probably just switch to .

First: Thank you for this, this was honestly all I was looking for. I just found it extremely bizarre that you didn't mention anything about a set and/or core that's pretty notorious for being hard for Stall teams to deal with was all.

Now, onto the points you made: Those are fair, it's not a static game and the team can be readjusted for meta trends. All of that is fine and I get that. I was more talking about the specific team in question and some odd quirks it had that could be exploited if it were copy pasted.


One issue with saying that you can change the Tera type of your Pokemon is, well, the same goes for the opponent too.

Let's say, assuming you kept the team and Tera types as they were, that Iron Valiant decided one day to go for Tera Steel.

...and just like that, everything goes south. Clodsire can't touch it, Toxapex will just sit there doing nothing, and Toxic Spikes can't even pressure hazard removal anymore while Corviknight manhandles whatever Iron Valiant can't. Now, this isn't to say that this is common or will happen, or that you can't make adjustments to fix it, but it's still a very real problem that can occur if people start to wise up to the team structure.

Also, remember that prediction is a two-way street. Just as you can predict the Moonblast and go into Clodsire, they can predict the switch and go for Psyshock. This isn't something to kill the argument, just something to keep in mind.


As for Corviknight, I'll talk about that later.

Similarly to the case of , this team forces to Defog every time it switches in and gradually chips it. has 24 Defog PP whereas this team has 160 total hazard PP. Mathematically, this team always wins the hazard war against Pressure .

Now this is a cool bit of information that I wish you'd emphasized more beforehand, because that DOES change things. It means that the problem of not having any way to prevent hazard removal can effectively solve itself, which was a huge problem I had with the team at first sight.

The only counterpoint I have is that the team still has no way to remove Heavy-Duty Boots with something like Knock Off, so it can still be somewhat difficult to make progress against an opposing team fully equipped with it, secondary win conditions like Blissey non-withstanding. But then again, not all teams will run like that, I'm not asking that the team have an answer for everything, and the alternative win conditions can work if the opponent is too passive, so not so heavy criticism there.

Now let’s suppose you ran the proposed + to alleviate this issue. While this is an effective hazard removal core, it is extremely passive. Therefore, this team can regenerate and Wish pass freely while you are forced to remove Hazards. As a result, switching to or will undo any progress was able to make. If you try and double to stop this, will take hazard damage and will be able to regenerate, switch in, and Recover on the subsequent turn. Doubling also opens up to being predicted on the switch and being statused/heavily chipped. Basically, you end up in this catch-22 of trying to make progress while not getting chipped.

Finally, you also need to question how viable a + + core is in the first place. In my opinion, this core would not fare well on the ladder and is therefore not a team that I would expect to matchup against often.

Now to its defense, this is more so something I've been theorying as of late, and the theory does check out:


Cyclizar is just an obnoxious Pokemon for hard Stall teams to deal with in general. It has Rapid Spin to continuously remove the hazards being stacked, Knock Off to remove important items like Heavy-Duty Boots or Leftovers, Taunt to shut down passive gameplay, and U-Turn which makes it incredibly hard to pin down and actually get out of the game before crippling your plays since it's holding Heavy-Duty Boots itself to ignore hazard stacking.

Now, if Cyclizar is on Rapid Spin, that means Corviknight doesn't NEED to be on Defog. Instead, it can reliably run Body Press (with Iron Defense) and now pose a terrible problem for Ting-Lu, Blissey and Clodsire if it goes for Tera Steel. The point of Cyclizar is to act as role compression to let its teammates do more without shoehorning them into other niches in a similar way to how Tornadus-T worked, and this is a perfect example of that.

And granted, Iron Valiant was the main example, but you could replace it with any other dedicated stall-buster in this core structure and get similar results depending on what you want the stallbreaker to aim for.

So, combining all of this, you have a perfect storm of Stall hate that continuously prevents progress from being made by playing into your game of continuously switching back and forth along with you.

And remember, that's just the core of three against your team of six. Nothing is preventing the opponent from running other teammates that either synergizes with the core or happens to hard-punish your team. So yes, this IS something to be aware of.


Once again though, this is all theory, not a deterministic look at the meta or anything. If something like this were to come up though, then you'd have to readjust the team to play into that better, otherwise matchups will become much harsher.

Thank you for the EV optimization. I’m also a fan of running even more defense EVs over the original set to better live Psyshocks, especially after the Shed Tail ban. I would propose 248 HP / 120 Def / 140+ SpD, which would correspond to 116 HP / 182 Def / 210+ SpD.


I really appreciate the comment and you presented some great points. I would love to hear any counterpoints to my arguments above.


As always, I’m happy to discuss this team and matchups further in the comments. Even after the Shed Tail ban, I think that this team is still extremely strong in the current meta and can even be optimized further with slight tera type changes and EV changes.

Any time, us nerds gotta stick together

 

[SupaGmoney]

First: Thank you for this, this was honestly all I was looking for. I just found it extremely bizarre that you didn't mention anything about a set and/or core that's pretty notorious for being hard for Stall teams to deal with was all.

Now, onto the points you made: Those are fair, it's not a static game and the team can be readjusted for meta trends. All of that is fine and I get that. I was more talking about the specific team in question and some odd quirks it had that could be exploited if it were copy pasted.


One issue with saying that you can change the Tera type of your Pokemon is, well, the same goes for the opponent too.

Let's say, assuming you kept the team and Tera types as they were, that Iron Valiant decided one day to go for Tera Steel.

...and just like that, everything goes south. Clodsire can't touch it, Toxapex will just sit there doing nothing, and Toxic Spikes can't even pressure hazard removal anymore while Corviknight manhandles whatever Iron Valiant can't. Now, this isn't to say that this is common or will happen, or that you can't make adjustments to fix it, but it's still a very real problem that can occur if people start to wise up to the team structure.

Also, remember that prediction is a two-way street. Just as you can predict the Moonblast and go into Clodsire, they can predict the switch and go for Psyshock. This isn't something to kill the argument, just something to keep in mind.


As for Corviknight, I'll talk about that later.



Now this is a cool bit of information that I wish you'd emphasized more beforehand, because that DOES change things. It means that the problem of not having any way to prevent hazard removal can effectively solve itself, which was a huge problem I had with the team at first sight.

The only counterpoint I have is that the team still has no way to remove Heavy-Duty Boots with something like Knock Off, so it can still be somewhat difficult to make progress against an opposing team fully equipped with it, secondary win conditions like Blissey non-withstanding. But then again, not all teams will run like that, I'm not asking that the team have an answer for everything, and the alternative win conditions can work if the opponent is too passive, so not so heavy criticism there.



Now to its defense, this is more so something I've been theorying as of late, and the theory does check out:


Cyclizar is just an obnoxious Pokemon for hard Stall teams to deal with in general. It has Rapid Spin to continuously remove the hazards being stacked, Knock Off to remove important items like Heavy-Duty Boots or Leftovers, Taunt to shut down passive gameplay, and U-Turn which makes it incredibly hard to pin down and actually get out of the game before crippling your plays since it's holding Heavy-Duty Boots itself to ignore hazard stacking.

Now, if Cyclizar is on Rapid Spin, that means Corviknight doesn't NEED to be on Defog. Instead, it can reliably run Body Press (with Iron Defense) and now pose a terrible problem for Ting-Lu, Blissey and Clodsire if it goes for Tera Steel. The point of Cyclizar is to act as role compression to let its teammates do more without shoehorning them into other niches in a similar way to how Tornadus-T worked, and this is a perfect example of that.

And granted, Iron Valiant was the main example, but you could replace it with any other dedicated stall-buster in this core structure and get similar results depending on what you want the stallbreaker to aim for.

So, combining all of this, you have a perfect storm of Stall hate that continuously prevents progress from being made by playing into your game of continuously switching back and forth along with you.

And remember, that's just the core of three against your team of six. Nothing is preventing the opponent from running other teammates that either synergizes with the core or happens to hard-punish your team. So yes, this IS something to be aware of.


Once again though, this is all theory, not a deterministic look at the meta or anything. If something like this were to come up though, then you'd have to readjust the team to play into that better, otherwise matchups will become much harsher.



Any time, us nerds gotta stick together

Thanks for following up. I just wanted to briefly respond to your rebuttal.

In general, poses no offensive threat to this team. Iron Defense + Body Press is completely walled by Haze and . As I explained earlier, usually just ends up being Wish and Regenerator fodder for this team.

As for , if it were to Tera Steel, it would be OHKOd by .

Hazard removers with Heavy Duty Boots just prolong the game as the fundamentals of the team's core strategy aren't changed. See the replay vs Boots that I posted in the RMT.



As for your final point, I agree that in the end, this team is not unbeatable. There are definitely weaknesses that can be exploited especially if you are facing an opponent who has prepared a team specifically to beat this team. However, that is true for any team.

My point earlier is that this team is not as easily beaten as you might think, especially on the ladder. Against the vast majority of viable ladder teams, this team will be favored. It has an answer to every single offensive meta threat and has great synergy due to the combination of Wish, hazard stack, Regenerator, and Unaware that will disrupt any offense. Even after the meta shift post Shed Tail ban, I still think that this is the most well rounded Gen 9 OU stall team to date, and it will still yield great results on the ladder.


As always, happy to answer any follow up questions that anyone has about the team.

 

[Broskue]

I knew it wasn't a coincidence that I ran into this exact team a twice today. Great job keeping stall alive and well.

 

[zReptar]

Still based

 

[Voltencity]

Hi, quick question, does Blissey now getting access to heal bell allow for any improvements to be made to the team?

 

[SupaGmoney]

Hi, quick question, does Blissey now getting access to heal bell allow for any improvements to be made to the team?

Thanks for asking. To be honest, I haven't tested if Heal Bell on is an improvement or not. There is merit to having the move as two members of the team, and , rely on Rest for their primary recovery. Especially in this faster paced meta, it may not always be possible to Wish pass with into those two successfully, meaning they will be forced to Rest more often. I think the more important question is what is the opportunity cost of not running one of the other moves in order to fit Heal Bell?


I'll explain my logic for three of 's move choices on the current team.


Stealth Rock

Given that this team has no or other Ghost type to block Rapid Spin, we need to have enough PP on both Spikes and Stealth Rock to stall out Defog from and keep pressure on the opponent's Rapid Spin user all game long. Therefore, we need double Stealth Rocks on and on the team as is. Additionally, while hazard stack is a win condition for the team, the primary goal is always to check everything on the opponent's team defensively. This means that we cannot risk frequent double switches and staying in on suboptimal defensive matchups just to set hazards. As a result, the majority of the team need to be able to set up hazards whenever a switch is predicted. Therefore, by keeping Stealth Rocks on , 4/6 members of the team are capable of setting hazards and maintaining constant pressure on the opponent.


Calm Mind

While is the primary set up special sweeper wall, sometimes an opponent will have multiple setup Pokémon that can stall out of Recover. In these cases, we need to be able to wall set up sweepers as well. This works well when the opponent has a Pokémon like Calm Mind , which is problematic for .


Flamethrower

In general, it's good to have some form of damage output on . In my most recent RMT (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/peaked-2-2107-elo-–-regen-stall.3722713/), I ran Seismic Toss instead of Flamethrower, which I think would probably be a beneficial change in this meta.


Although this team is outdated, I think it has potential in this new meta. Once again, Gen 9 OU is back to a primarily HO meta, which was the case when I first made this team. Therefore, I think it could perform quite well after a few changes. The strategy of the team is still extremely effective but there are defensive holes that need to be patched up. I plan on circling back to this team at some point to try and ladder with it again.


With all that being said, I'll leave it up to you to decide what is necessary and what can be modified. Feel free to experiment and let me know what you discover! If I manage to find success with an edit of this team, I'll be sure to post it here.

Let me know if you or anyone else have other questions on this team or want to propose adaptations that can be made.