-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Role Playing Philosopher's Stone War VI - Postgame
- Thread starter Former
- Start date
responding to von's post now:
INFO
I feel that if we're going to have info on enemy champions be influential in the outcomes of fights, then either it needs to provide a concrete, numerical advantage (easily the simpler method to implement, but fairly bland), or abilities will need to be designed in such a way as to allow informed opponents to play around, ignore, or lessen the impact of abilities (this is the more interesting and probably the more desirable option, but would require a lot more effort and creativity to make work).
In general, here, I agree with von more than FH: I think knowledge of an opponent's identity and powers isn't really impactful enough.
3 HP
Not much I have to say here, other than generally liking the change. I do want to clarify something though: is the special coup action the ONLY way to kill a summoner? You mentioned on discord that this action should be melee-only. What if Archer drops a summoner to 0 HP from two hundred feet away and just keeps shooting them, or an enemy summoner does the same thing with spells? If these actions don't kill a downed summoner outright, how much more damage does it take to kill them at this point?
SPELLS
I'm no designer, so I feel I don't have much to contribute to this particular discussion, honestly. I agree that the systems of spells we've tried in the past are quite lacking and just never feel particularly good to use outside a few edge case near-mandatory spells such as Fly and Dimension Door, so something new and homebrewed would be a good addition as long as it's properly thought-out.
FEATS
My feelings here are largely the same as spells; pretty much everything there applies here too.
PARADIGMS
I'm gonna be honest, I never particularly liked the RPS system, because it felt like you didn't generally have an incentive to pick any particular option other than to try to win the matchup. While this does have shades of the same thing, being able to invest further in it and make meaningful choices beyond just "will the other guy roll what i think he's rolling?" goes a long way towards fixing what I disliked about RPS. Obviously, this is going to need playtesting to make sure it's balanced, but that goes for everything on the list anyway.
SKILLS
See spells/feats; skills have always felt really lacking, and honestly they've historically been one of the weak points of PF/DnD5e as a whole anyway. A homebrew system that makes the choices actually matter would go a long way to making character builds feel more interesting and relevant.
That's about all I really have right now; I've been somewhat uninvested in PSW lately due to various reasons (not the least of which is getting a new job that takes up much of my time and energy), so I'm probably going to be less able to answer pertinent questions than more recent players. I do look forward to seeing what fixes and systems everyone comes up with and will do my best to help where I can.
editing this in because i forgot:
re: new ideas
This isn't really a "new" idea, really, but I feel that we really need some way to encourage players to interact and/or initiate conflict earlier and more often, so that games don't drag on so long without anything happening as seems to be a recurring problem. We've experimented in the past with introducing objectives for players to fight over. I think this is probably worth exploring some more; von already mentioned leylines in his post, and that's probably worthwhile if we can get mana to matter more than it has (which also was addressed by suggesting it be used to power up spells).
We can probably go a bit further than that, however. In the source material PSW draws from (the Fate canon), objects and people tend to grow in power with historical/literary importance and relevance. What if we assume something similar is the case for PSW? We could introduce items and artifacts that were owned by historical figures other than the champions in the current game as magical trinkets that players can track down and use to help them in the war. This is something that just sprung to mind, and I don't really have any concrete examples right now, but I think this is worth considering, both as a way to spice up the map itself and as a way to get players into conflict with each other sooner.
INFO
I feel that if we're going to have info on enemy champions be influential in the outcomes of fights, then either it needs to provide a concrete, numerical advantage (easily the simpler method to implement, but fairly bland), or abilities will need to be designed in such a way as to allow informed opponents to play around, ignore, or lessen the impact of abilities (this is the more interesting and probably the more desirable option, but would require a lot more effort and creativity to make work).
In general, here, I agree with von more than FH: I think knowledge of an opponent's identity and powers isn't really impactful enough.
3 HP
Not much I have to say here, other than generally liking the change. I do want to clarify something though: is the special coup action the ONLY way to kill a summoner? You mentioned on discord that this action should be melee-only. What if Archer drops a summoner to 0 HP from two hundred feet away and just keeps shooting them, or an enemy summoner does the same thing with spells? If these actions don't kill a downed summoner outright, how much more damage does it take to kill them at this point?
SPELLS
I'm no designer, so I feel I don't have much to contribute to this particular discussion, honestly. I agree that the systems of spells we've tried in the past are quite lacking and just never feel particularly good to use outside a few edge case near-mandatory spells such as Fly and Dimension Door, so something new and homebrewed would be a good addition as long as it's properly thought-out.
FEATS
My feelings here are largely the same as spells; pretty much everything there applies here too.
PARADIGMS
I'm gonna be honest, I never particularly liked the RPS system, because it felt like you didn't generally have an incentive to pick any particular option other than to try to win the matchup. While this does have shades of the same thing, being able to invest further in it and make meaningful choices beyond just "will the other guy roll what i think he's rolling?" goes a long way towards fixing what I disliked about RPS. Obviously, this is going to need playtesting to make sure it's balanced, but that goes for everything on the list anyway.
SKILLS
See spells/feats; skills have always felt really lacking, and honestly they've historically been one of the weak points of PF/DnD5e as a whole anyway. A homebrew system that makes the choices actually matter would go a long way to making character builds feel more interesting and relevant.
That's about all I really have right now; I've been somewhat uninvested in PSW lately due to various reasons (not the least of which is getting a new job that takes up much of my time and energy), so I'm probably going to be less able to answer pertinent questions than more recent players. I do look forward to seeing what fixes and systems everyone comes up with and will do my best to help where I can.
editing this in because i forgot:
re: new ideas
This isn't really a "new" idea, really, but I feel that we really need some way to encourage players to interact and/or initiate conflict earlier and more often, so that games don't drag on so long without anything happening as seems to be a recurring problem. We've experimented in the past with introducing objectives for players to fight over. I think this is probably worth exploring some more; von already mentioned leylines in his post, and that's probably worthwhile if we can get mana to matter more than it has (which also was addressed by suggesting it be used to power up spells).
We can probably go a bit further than that, however. In the source material PSW draws from (the Fate canon), objects and people tend to grow in power with historical/literary importance and relevance. What if we assume something similar is the case for PSW? We could introduce items and artifacts that were owned by historical figures other than the champions in the current game as magical trinkets that players can track down and use to help them in the war. This is something that just sprung to mind, and I don't really have any concrete examples right now, but I think this is worth considering, both as a way to spice up the map itself and as a way to get players into conflict with each other sooner.
Last edited:
So just to explain my view on information.
I really really dislike the current system of information as it's been run in my game. The way it's been thus far
1. It's disruptive to host
When I'm hosting a battle, even if it's post-by-post, it has been so annoying to have to keep track of what information everyone has seen of someone else. It's just another, frankly unnecessary step in the process that slows things down. But for the style that exists in PSW5/6, it's critical to keep track of this in order to make the information roll to determine what someone gets. Frankly, if I host another one, this would be the biggest reason why I change it. I just see as it stands, information puts too much meaningless stress on the host, and I don't think enough good comes from it.
2. It removes mystery/adds too much clarity
As it currently stands, someone can just go "I share what I know about (champion)" with someone else. It's ideal because otherwise they are just c/ping paragraphs. But I think it's really a major drawback to the game. For one, it helps someone's literal role PM get spread around, but in addition, it limits someone's ability to trick someone.
When you remove the ability to get someone's role PM through information, the focus is then placed on the players ability to record and verbally describe the effect. Though this method, it then becomes possible to lie about someone's role PM. Lying can serve many important functions here. It can cause someone to misprioritize an enemy based on the incorrect statement. It can lead to someone falsely being prepared to encounter the foe or frankly, it can disguise the players own actions and blame them on another.
Role PM gaining makes all of that significantly harder because truthful sharing is near instantaneous with full paragraphs that can't be easily faked. In addition, it sets up a truthful player to be able to describe in detail from those paragraphs the effects. This is compared to the new method, where what people know is only taken from the descriptions.
3. It makes players too reluctant to use their abilities
This has gone for multiple people this game. People have been straight up reluctant to use abilities because they don't know if that will be the thing that helps a player ID them. For a lot of champions, they want to keep their name hidden because they feel like it might be too closely connected to their kit, especially when their kit involves some kind of trickery. But also, because information is so easy to share, once you use an ability, it becomes super easy for everyone else in the game to know about it. Mind you, this won't entirely change in the new system. However, by going from "hey host, pass this" to "oh crap, I need to now explain it in my own words", it does preserve some aura of mystery and allows for hilarious "telephone" games where abilities get confused and muddled.
4. It lets people keep aces up their sleeves
When I run this game, I ultimately prioritize fun. Not balance, not fairness. This is because ultimately, fun is why we play the game. Fun keeps people coming back and while fairness and balance are important, no one earnestly signs up for this game because they expect everything to be perfectly balanced. In this vein, I think one of the most fun plays is when you get caught in a situation, but have just the absolute perfect skill for that situation and get to essentially play a trump card.
In the current system, this is a bit harder to do. Everyone is aware that players have 2-3 main abilities, sometimes with multiple effects coming from that ability. But the more you can go back to a PM and say "oh, it's that ability, they probably can't do much more" the more a champion becomes expected and predictable.
Now to be clear, I do not believe that if someone has all the information on an enemy, they should win. That's just silly. But, I do believe that if a player has a really good handle on what someone else's kit is, they can naturally try to lead them to traps or force encounters in unfavorable terms. In addition, quite a few champions naturally have weaknesses that can be exploited if you have the right information.
But I do not believe having information on someone means you should auto win. Instead, I think having information, allows a player to excel and strategize to use that information to their benefit, and if they are successful, and account for possible trump cards from that champion, then they are statistically likely to win the fight. But this is hard, and intentionally so, but it also gives a player a chance to truly shine when they can pull it off.
For the record, the new method I plan to run is:
The only host confirmed information received, is when a champion uses a trademark, in which case all witnesses automatically learns their name and the name of their trademark.
Skills will have clear and consistent visual and audio cues that will help to indicate what someone is doing.
When abilities impact someone, unless something is meant to be tricky, the effects will be clearly labeled. Ie if someone does something that reduces your AC, you will be told this.
But again really, at the end of the day, this comes down to mechanical issues. From my perspective as the host, the way PSW handles information requires too much of my time and energy, and I don't think the results are worth the effort. If someone really wanted to keep the current way going, then I guess they could volunteer next PSW to keep track of all of that stuff but then again, I don't think that would be a good, productive use of someone's time.
The new system I want to use however, is minimalist and let's people scheme more, it lets people more freely use their abilities without the fear that it'll let people guess their name. It allows people to keep more mystery about their champion and avoid everyone getting their role PM. But furthermore, at the end of the day, it puts more power into the hands of the player and forces them to pay more attention to the enemy and their capabilities, and let's me (and other GM's) focus more on running the game at a consistent pace.
I really really dislike the current system of information as it's been run in my game. The way it's been thus far
1. It's disruptive to host
When I'm hosting a battle, even if it's post-by-post, it has been so annoying to have to keep track of what information everyone has seen of someone else. It's just another, frankly unnecessary step in the process that slows things down. But for the style that exists in PSW5/6, it's critical to keep track of this in order to make the information roll to determine what someone gets. Frankly, if I host another one, this would be the biggest reason why I change it. I just see as it stands, information puts too much meaningless stress on the host, and I don't think enough good comes from it.
2. It removes mystery/adds too much clarity
As it currently stands, someone can just go "I share what I know about (champion)" with someone else. It's ideal because otherwise they are just c/ping paragraphs. But I think it's really a major drawback to the game. For one, it helps someone's literal role PM get spread around, but in addition, it limits someone's ability to trick someone.
When you remove the ability to get someone's role PM through information, the focus is then placed on the players ability to record and verbally describe the effect. Though this method, it then becomes possible to lie about someone's role PM. Lying can serve many important functions here. It can cause someone to misprioritize an enemy based on the incorrect statement. It can lead to someone falsely being prepared to encounter the foe or frankly, it can disguise the players own actions and blame them on another.
Role PM gaining makes all of that significantly harder because truthful sharing is near instantaneous with full paragraphs that can't be easily faked. In addition, it sets up a truthful player to be able to describe in detail from those paragraphs the effects. This is compared to the new method, where what people know is only taken from the descriptions.
3. It makes players too reluctant to use their abilities
This has gone for multiple people this game. People have been straight up reluctant to use abilities because they don't know if that will be the thing that helps a player ID them. For a lot of champions, they want to keep their name hidden because they feel like it might be too closely connected to their kit, especially when their kit involves some kind of trickery. But also, because information is so easy to share, once you use an ability, it becomes super easy for everyone else in the game to know about it. Mind you, this won't entirely change in the new system. However, by going from "hey host, pass this" to "oh crap, I need to now explain it in my own words", it does preserve some aura of mystery and allows for hilarious "telephone" games where abilities get confused and muddled.
4. It lets people keep aces up their sleeves
When I run this game, I ultimately prioritize fun. Not balance, not fairness. This is because ultimately, fun is why we play the game. Fun keeps people coming back and while fairness and balance are important, no one earnestly signs up for this game because they expect everything to be perfectly balanced. In this vein, I think one of the most fun plays is when you get caught in a situation, but have just the absolute perfect skill for that situation and get to essentially play a trump card.
In the current system, this is a bit harder to do. Everyone is aware that players have 2-3 main abilities, sometimes with multiple effects coming from that ability. But the more you can go back to a PM and say "oh, it's that ability, they probably can't do much more" the more a champion becomes expected and predictable.
Now to be clear, I do not believe that if someone has all the information on an enemy, they should win. That's just silly. But, I do believe that if a player has a really good handle on what someone else's kit is, they can naturally try to lead them to traps or force encounters in unfavorable terms. In addition, quite a few champions naturally have weaknesses that can be exploited if you have the right information.
But I do not believe having information on someone means you should auto win. Instead, I think having information, allows a player to excel and strategize to use that information to their benefit, and if they are successful, and account for possible trump cards from that champion, then they are statistically likely to win the fight. But this is hard, and intentionally so, but it also gives a player a chance to truly shine when they can pull it off.
For the record, the new method I plan to run is:
The only host confirmed information received, is when a champion uses a trademark, in which case all witnesses automatically learns their name and the name of their trademark.
Skills will have clear and consistent visual and audio cues that will help to indicate what someone is doing.
When abilities impact someone, unless something is meant to be tricky, the effects will be clearly labeled. Ie if someone does something that reduces your AC, you will be told this.
But again really, at the end of the day, this comes down to mechanical issues. From my perspective as the host, the way PSW handles information requires too much of my time and energy, and I don't think the results are worth the effort. If someone really wanted to keep the current way going, then I guess they could volunteer next PSW to keep track of all of that stuff but then again, I don't think that would be a good, productive use of someone's time.
The new system I want to use however, is minimalist and let's people scheme more, it lets people more freely use their abilities without the fear that it'll let people guess their name. It allows people to keep more mystery about their champion and avoid everyone getting their role PM. But furthermore, at the end of the day, it puts more power into the hands of the player and forces them to pay more attention to the enemy and their capabilities, and let's me (and other GM's) focus more on running the game at a consistent pace.
At this point though, especially after writing that. I think it's impossible to discuss this thoroughly without avoiding spoilers. Even if it's for dead characters, I would prefer to keep all spoilers to a minimum in a public setting.
In addition, along with that, I don't think players can fairly give their opinions of information this game without invoking those same spoilers.
For that reason, I am going to ask we stop a lot of this conversation for the meanwhile, and do come back to it when the game is closer to ending and we don't have to worry so much about spoilers.
In addition, along with that, I don't think players can fairly give their opinions of information this game without invoking those same spoilers.
For that reason, I am going to ask we stop a lot of this conversation for the meanwhile, and do come back to it when the game is closer to ending and we don't have to worry so much about spoilers.
Last edited:
Day 5
Berserker aka Odin has been eliminated Savior aka Tenskwatawa has been eliminated
Assassin aka Pierre Picaud has been eliminated
Caster aka Thomas Edison has been eliminated
Knight aka Anubis has been eliminated
The following players have also lost their summoner and thus, are out of the game
Agape
Pyra
LightWolf
Ullar
As such, the remaining players in the game are
Hitmonleet
MoodyCloud
Maxim
??? What's this? huh, it seems like oddish never had a character to begin with, how strange.
A powerful storm is going to hit the island at 1pm in game. Currently, weather is strong winds and heavy rain.
Mysterious zombie like creatures have been unleashed on the island, related to this, the follow message appears in your heads as you wake up
????? said:
You 3 have 72 hours for day plans, so up to April 2nd at 5pm PST.Overseer said:
Hitmonleet (as Erwin Rommel aka Rider) has won PSW VI
Big congrats to everyone and thank you for playing. Post game will be posted in the next few days
Big congrats to everyone and thank you for playing. Post game will be posted in the next few days
Few days...haha....thank you to everyone for waiting as long as you did for this.
Overview
It had been almost 2 years since PSW 5 ended. Because I thoroughly enjoyed that experience, I wanted to bring it back and let a new generation of players experience it as well. Compared to PSW 5, few changes were made. Because I had never played a full PSW before, I relied heavily on Von for a lot of the set up and that led to a lot of similarities such as using the same base stats and RPS combat. There were a few new additions though
8th Place - Monk - Internet
Playerwise, I think this champion's style didn't mesh well with the way internet wanted to play. Because it was so powerful, it was anticipated that other people would want to target him as soon as it was revealed what he did, however that wasn't something internet understood and ended up disliking the fact he was a priority target for most of the game. With the exception of one, Caster. Monk and Caster created a super strong alliance within the first few hours of the game and managed to not betray each other until they were taken down by a combination of Savior/Rider/Archer/Knight and Berserker. Even then, Monk was able to escape. Until Caster, who had taken Archers trojan horse, was tricked into activating Archer's trademark, which allowed Archer to get the finishing blow on Monk.
7th Place - Berserker - Agape
He then worked heavily with Rider while he rested, which was great, until the fight at Hotel Lanai resulted in Monk capturing Zerker and using him for the next 24 hours. The next time Zerker got to play was during the Battle of Saviortown, where he popped in twice and beat up Savior some, then peaced out.
By the point he died, the gamestate had shifted a lot. Rider was no longer working as closely with him, and more importantly, Archer was too spooked by the ravens to want this champion to live long. Using some clever logic and his hunting skill, Archer tracked Zerker down to the boat he was hiding on. The resulting battle was probably one of the best in the whole game, with Archer, backed up by several totems (Savior's, Caster's, and Zerker's own) fighting Zerker on a boat. Even as strong as Archer was and as injured and depleted as Zerker was, Zerker put up one hell of a fight and the fight came down to a single attack, where if Archer had missed, Zerker would have slain him.
6th Place - Savior - Pyra
A champion that can build a cult - Check
Turn PSW 5 into Simcity - Wait...
Savior had a cool, if not a little boring kit. Getting to build a city and recruit an army is really cool in my opinion. But because most of his strength was built into the Cultists, it was hard for him to engage with other people and while his strength in base was sufficient to fight off several champions, he was unable to fight ALL of them like he ended up doing.
Mechanic wise, Savior with spells ended up being one of the most broken champions itg. The spells gave him unparalleled offense and with his mooks and defensive abilities, tons of bulk. Pyra played him fairly well, but also suffered from bouts of inactivity which caused him to miss a few important timely actions. He also unfortunately got noticed by his initial kidnapping, resulting in him being a big player of both D2 and D3.
In fact, it was his city that managed to unite all 8 champions within the frame of a few hours (7 battled at once, but Assassin didn't directly take part in that, instead Assassin visited in disguise before getting other people to attack Savior by putting a bounty on his head). That battle used up Savior's first life and ruined most of his build up. He ultimate died after Assassin tricked him into acquiring most of the police force, armed with suicide bomber vests. Assassin planed to use these vests to get Savior to blow up his own cult, but Archer instead hacked into the wireless signal of the bombs and accidentally blew them up. Still, Savior managed to escape into the forest until he encountered Rider and Caster who finished him off.
5th Place - Assassin - Lightwolf
Largely, his role as an overseer went underutilized which means that the buff ability of his never got used. He did however manage to get knight into his trap and in the other super cool batter of this PSW, nearly managed to take him out. However, a combination of bad luck and choice of opponent led to Knight slaying him in another battle that came down to a final hit. Although to my memory, he never took much of the lead in the team conversations, he still played really well and was a good support player to his allies. His 1v1 potential also meant he was in strong contention for the win. But was unluckily caught in Assassins trap and nearly killed. Although he won the so called "fight of the champions" (as LW and Maxim have both won PSW's before), it cost him his order spells and Knight sadly died as a result of mana loss after their plan to create a philosophers stone failed. Maxim continued on to witness and assist Rider in the final fight.
Overview
It had been almost 2 years since PSW 5 ended. Because I thoroughly enjoyed that experience, I wanted to bring it back and let a new generation of players experience it as well. Compared to PSW 5, few changes were made. Because I had never played a full PSW before, I relied heavily on Von for a lot of the set up and that led to a lot of similarities such as using the same base stats and RPS combat. There were a few new additions though
- Order Spells being divided into defensive/offensive/utility
- More unique summoners
- New map/setting
- My own hosting style
I liked that everyone had essentially two lives in the form of their defensive OS. Ultimately though, I feel like Order Spells are a really wild and hard element to control. They essentially give a player a freeform option to do something, and trying to balance those options is really challenging and time consuming, especially in the middle of a fight.
If I were to do this again, I would probably define Order Spell usage a little more. In particular, I would balance the defensive OS to be a little less powerful later in the game and give some better examples of the Offensive and Utility OS's.
If I were to do this again, I would probably define Order Spell usage a little more. In particular, I would balance the defensive OS to be a little less powerful later in the game and give some better examples of the Offensive and Utility OS's.
This game saw a lot more Summoner combat than previous PSW's and in particular, Summoners were more of a target than in the past. Going from PSW 5, I reduced the HP of summoners from 200 to 100 and also gave them access to a pathfinder wizard spell list (with some modifications).
This meant that with those spells, Summoners were a force to be reckoned with and could seriously trip up champions with some of the brutal no-save spells that exist.
Overall, I think summoners still need to be more diverse and I think it's best to move away from the rigid "they are wizards" and allow for more unique builds.
This meant that with those spells, Summoners were a force to be reckoned with and could seriously trip up champions with some of the brutal no-save spells that exist.
Overall, I think summoners still need to be more diverse and I think it's best to move away from the rigid "they are wizards" and allow for more unique builds.
I like getting away from Amesbury, UK and the fantasy maps of past PSW's. I think having the battle be set on the Hawaiian islands added a nice bit of culture, diversity and terrain. I think rotating the location of future PSW's would be a good idea.
According to Von himself, his hosting style focuses largely on getting people to battles and making them happen. In comparison, I liked to focus on the more mundane elements such as exploration and interaction with NPC's and the environment. Unfortunately, the added nuance caused this PSW to also take quite awhile to finish, but I also hope that it added more fun to the game itself.
I also chose to spice stuff up by putting in some prebuilt island history and secret locations to explore. The most prevalent of which, were the Cave and the Niihau. The Niihau are based loosely off of unnamed monsters from Lanai's real life history and would spawn whenever someone mana killed an NPC. While 1-5 wouldn't be such a big deal, they were still capable of causing trouble because the only way to really damage them, was to harm them via mana (which only berserker was capable of). Ironically, zerker ended up being the one to create the most niihau and died before he could get around to killing them. The Cave meanwhile held a Secondary Stone, a less powerful version of the Philosophers stone that could effectively give the person who found it a bonus Order Spell. However, the cave also held a hoard of Niihau and was protected by a barrier that prevented champions from entering. Which meant the only way to actually acquire it, was to either risk your champions life, or to destroy the barrier and unleash the niihau hoard and then go back and reclaim it. The Knight/Rider/Caster team succeeded at part of this, but failed to go back in and investigate the cave. Unfortunate for Knight and Caster because they both could have really used an extra OS as it would have prevented their deaths.
I think the added but optional story elements gave people something to do when they weren't hunting for people, it also rewarded people who explored the environment by giving them tools they could use to lure people into traps.
According to Von himself, his hosting style focuses largely on getting people to battles and making them happen. In comparison, I liked to focus on the more mundane elements such as exploration and interaction with NPC's and the environment. Unfortunately, the added nuance caused this PSW to also take quite awhile to finish, but I also hope that it added more fun to the game itself.
I also chose to spice stuff up by putting in some prebuilt island history and secret locations to explore. The most prevalent of which, were the Cave and the Niihau. The Niihau are based loosely off of unnamed monsters from Lanai's real life history and would spawn whenever someone mana killed an NPC. While 1-5 wouldn't be such a big deal, they were still capable of causing trouble because the only way to really damage them, was to harm them via mana (which only berserker was capable of). Ironically, zerker ended up being the one to create the most niihau and died before he could get around to killing them. The Cave meanwhile held a Secondary Stone, a less powerful version of the Philosophers stone that could effectively give the person who found it a bonus Order Spell. However, the cave also held a hoard of Niihau and was protected by a barrier that prevented champions from entering. Which meant the only way to actually acquire it, was to either risk your champions life, or to destroy the barrier and unleash the niihau hoard and then go back and reclaim it. The Knight/Rider/Caster team succeeded at part of this, but failed to go back in and investigate the cave. Unfortunate for Knight and Caster because they both could have really used an extra OS as it would have prevented their deaths.
I think the added but optional story elements gave people something to do when they weren't hunting for people, it also rewarded people who explored the environment by giving them tools they could use to lure people into traps.
8th Place - Monk - Internet
People really complained about this champion and it's not hard to understand why. As long as he has a champions name, he could essentially knock someone out of the game for a day and use their champion as an unwavering ally. In addition, though nl damage, he could prevent someone from killing him, ouch. Him not having a summoner was a nice twist, it allowed him to be mildly weaker than other pairs because he essentially had 1 fewer action a round. But it also removed a typical weakness that other pairs had.
Playerwise, I think this champion's style didn't mesh well with the way internet wanted to play. Because it was so powerful, it was anticipated that other people would want to target him as soon as it was revealed what he did, however that wasn't something internet understood and ended up disliking the fact he was a priority target for most of the game. With the exception of one, Caster. Monk and Caster created a super strong alliance within the first few hours of the game and managed to not betray each other until they were taken down by a combination of Savior/Rider/Archer/Knight and Berserker. Even then, Monk was able to escape. Until Caster, who had taken Archers trojan horse, was tricked into activating Archer's trademark, which allowed Archer to get the finishing blow on Monk.
7th Place - Berserker - Agape
Agape probably deserved to be higher, his play was very nuanced and strategic and his champion was also insanely strong. His two ravens gave him plenty of information and his trademark let him put heavy pressure on most of the game, even when he was resting. In fights he had insane damage and was able to easily hold his own event against multiple opponents. This was most evident in his initial fight, agape was lured into attacking Monk/Caster after his ravens spotted 3 strange looking individuals. Because he wasn't yet aware that Monk lacked a summoner, he was a little bamboozled when he ended up having to fight 2v1. Despite this, the early damage from his trademark let him nearly kill Caster before getting away, taking two of Caster's order spells with him. Unfortunately, monk was able to track him via Archer's totem on him, so he was forced to leave the totem behind.
He then worked heavily with Rider while he rested, which was great, until the fight at Hotel Lanai resulted in Monk capturing Zerker and using him for the next 24 hours. The next time Zerker got to play was during the Battle of Saviortown, where he popped in twice and beat up Savior some, then peaced out.
By the point he died, the gamestate had shifted a lot. Rider was no longer working as closely with him, and more importantly, Archer was too spooked by the ravens to want this champion to live long. Using some clever logic and his hunting skill, Archer tracked Zerker down to the boat he was hiding on. The resulting battle was probably one of the best in the whole game, with Archer, backed up by several totems (Savior's, Caster's, and Zerker's own) fighting Zerker on a boat. Even as strong as Archer was and as injured and depleted as Zerker was, Zerker put up one hell of a fight and the fight came down to a single attack, where if Archer had missed, Zerker would have slain him.
6th Place - Savior - Pyra
A champion that can build a city - Check
A champion that can build a cult - Check
Turn PSW 5 into Simcity - Wait...
Savior had a cool, if not a little boring kit. Getting to build a city and recruit an army is really cool in my opinion. But because most of his strength was built into the Cultists, it was hard for him to engage with other people and while his strength in base was sufficient to fight off several champions, he was unable to fight ALL of them like he ended up doing.
Mechanic wise, Savior with spells ended up being one of the most broken champions itg. The spells gave him unparalleled offense and with his mooks and defensive abilities, tons of bulk. Pyra played him fairly well, but also suffered from bouts of inactivity which caused him to miss a few important timely actions. He also unfortunately got noticed by his initial kidnapping, resulting in him being a big player of both D2 and D3.
In fact, it was his city that managed to unite all 8 champions within the frame of a few hours (7 battled at once, but Assassin didn't directly take part in that, instead Assassin visited in disguise before getting other people to attack Savior by putting a bounty on his head). That battle used up Savior's first life and ruined most of his build up. He ultimate died after Assassin tricked him into acquiring most of the police force, armed with suicide bomber vests. Assassin planed to use these vests to get Savior to blow up his own cult, but Archer instead hacked into the wireless signal of the bombs and accidentally blew them up. Still, Savior managed to escape into the forest until he encountered Rider and Caster who finished him off.
5th Place - Assassin - Lightwolf
Shoutouts again to Oddish. for agreeing to be a fake player and maintain the ruse that LW was actually just the overseer. A few players speculated that the overseer might be a player, but it wasn't truly realized until too late for most people. Part of this was because LW was very inactive for the first few days, only observing people (which was hard when he didn't know what people looked like) and his initial plots largely failed (such as the fake skydiving event).
Largely, his role as an overseer went underutilized which means that the buff ability of his never got used. He did however manage to get knight into his trap and in the other super cool batter of this PSW, nearly managed to take him out. However, a combination of bad luck and choice of opponent led to Knight slaying him in another battle that came down to a final hit. Although to my memory, he never took much of the lead in the team conversations, he still played really well and was a good support player to his allies. His 1v1 potential also meant he was in strong contention for the win. But was unluckily caught in Assassins trap and nearly killed. Although he won the so called "fight of the champions" (as LW and Maxim have both won PSW's before), it cost him his order spells and Knight sadly died as a result of mana loss after their plan to create a philosophers stone failed. Maxim continued on to witness and assist Rider in the final fight.
4th Place - Caster - Ullar
Ullar was also just a fun player to watch and major props to him for the amount of roleplaying and character interactions they had. All of the top 4 (Knight/Archer/Rider/Caster) had a ton of social game going for them and I think that is what ultimate got them to the top, despite not necessarily having the best champions.
He started off strong by working with Monk, but got very unlucky Day 1 when his fight with Zerker cost him two order spells and a bunch of mana. From there, he and Monk were hunted down by most of the game, which resulted in Caster's Summoner dying D2. Fortunately, Monk used an OS to bind with Caster and work with him to escape. Which was great, until Archer's totem lured them into the Trojan horse and got monk killed. Ullar then entered into a loose alliance with Archer, giving the ranged champion both his own totem and zerker's totem. He then went and stayed in a hotel room as per Archer's orders. Unbeknownst to both of them, Assassin was tracking Archer and discovered Caster was in the hotel. Assassin then led an attack on the hotel while disguised as the Police Chief and roped Rider and Knight into helping him. With some quick thinking, Caster realized what was about to happen and disguised himself using the invention he stole from Archer. This led to a hilarious scene in the police station where two players were disguised as NPC's (Caster and Assassin) and Rider and Knight were trying to interrogate the disguised Caster into getting information while the disguised Assassin was trying to get Rider and Knight to realize that this person had to be Caster.
Caster then managed to escape the Police Station by turning part of his cell into tin foil, but was quickly intercepted by Rider. Instead of Rider attacking him however, Rider made an alliance with Caster and created a 3 person alliance with Rider/Caster/Knight. They together created the wonderfully insane plan to create a Philosopher's stone with the Cave's mana barrier. Initially that plan would have been foiled by Assassin, but assassin was dead by the time they went to fulfill it. However, with some crafty thinking and good rolls, they were able to destroy the barrier and convert Caster's Reality marble into...a stone that held some additional mana. Instead, Niihau started pouring out of the cave and threatened to overwhelm the group. Caster, who was going to be dying soon anyways because of the mana loss (from a lack of Summoner) decided to sacrifice himself to try and take out the Nii'haus, or at least let Rider and Knight escape. While Caster was unable to destroy the Nii'haus, he did hold them back long enough to allow his friends to get away and died in probably one of the most heroic ways to die in a PSW.
3rd Place - Knight - Maxim
Knight was not the strongest champion, but he was still an insane powerhouse and King of 1v1's. He had a ton of crowd control potential and could even make coats out of his opponents and wear them. His trademark was super punishing but unfortunately, never saw that much use outside of Monk.
Maxim spent most of Day 1 and 2 laying low and gathering information. This changed when he met Rider, and stayed in good contact with him for most of the game. Even partnering with him after Knight died and helping Rider defeat Archer and being the first to fight a super secret boss that might be around next PSW.
He also had a great deal of creativity when it came to the game, he did probably one of the coolest order spells when he summoned Ammit, a giant crocodile goddess who essentially ended the massive Battle at Saviortown. He also used his ability to contact the dead to contact the original heroof the island and gain some bonus information on the Nii'hau and some of the things I have planned for PSW 8.
2nd place - Archer -Moodycloud
His disguise skill let him remain fairly anonymous and protected for most of the game and he spent a lot of the first few days in hiding, waiting to ambush people. In fact, during Night 1 Zerker decided to go from the Southern point of the island to the Northernmost point, a journey that would have made him encounter either Rider or Archer depending on which road he took. Zerker ultimately encountered Rider, but if he had encountered Archer N1, Zerker probably would have been done for.
Archer had a lot of neat tricks that helped him over time, in particular, the totems. The totems created a really cool aspect of the game where champions had something of value to lose that wasn't their lives or mana. The totems of course, were also our disguise of the Trojan Horse which let him create an arena where he could usually win against most enemies.
However, this Archer was also pretty busted in Melee combat. Against Zerker (and partly because Archer was super buffed by having multiple totems) he was able to fight Zerker in melee and hold his own. Future Archers really shouldn't have a +20 damage mod and +10 to hit and I really don't know how we missed that.
Despite being the most deadly champion in the game, his spike in power died as the owners of the totems slowly died out. This eventually brought him into a 1v1 with Rider where he was at a known disadvantage. They skirmished around for awhile and in some of these skirmishes, Archer did quite well. But ultimately they couldn't overcome a Rider full of Orderspells and multiple tanks and sandstorms.
and now the winner of PSW 6
1st - Rider - Hitmonleet
Because Rider avoided fighting directly, most of his abilities didn't get to see a lot of play and his minions often served as the transportation for whomever he was working with at the moment.
His trademark allowed him to either ambush enemies or aid in rider's already impressive escape ability. However, it also ended up being very powerful against this version of Archer, something he utilized heavily in the final fight.
Finally, this dude has an insane amount of history knowledge. Like, major props to him, he was able to guess nearly every champion itg before they got revealed officially.
Conclusion
Thank you everyone for playing and waiting patiently for this long over due postgame. Partly because of that long time, there were certainly some things I missed or didn't cover fully. But otherwise, any feedback about the system we used or idea's for future PSW's are greatly appreciated. I personally still hope to run another one starting sometime in the next year or so.
Evangelical Autohorn
Being planted with a swift action, the autohorn causes all (except for Caster and his Summoner) within 60 feet to make a Will save. If they fail a DC 20, they take 1 Will damage. In addition, they take nonlethal damage equal to 20 minus their Will save. This can be planted for 10 Electricity + 15 Electricity for each previous time it was planted.
Chaos Worm
Phone add-on that hacks reality. Swift action at start of round. Until the round is over, Caster can force any roll to be rerolled (with the new result being used. Can be used for 10 Electricity + 10 Electricity for each previous time used.
Robo Raven
A robotic raven that can be programmed to scout for up to 8 hours. Costs 5 Electricity + 10 Electricity for each previous use.
Mimir Search Engine
Phone add-on that can search any topic with a +20 knowledge check. Costs 2 Electricity + 2 Electricity for each previous use.
Rainbow Teleporter
Can teleport any number of creatures within close range to anywhere on the island. Costs 25 Electricity + 25 Electricity for each previous use.
Pocket Tank
A tank that fits in your pocket and can be turned into a large sized tank as a full-round action (including one person climbing into it). It can also be turned back as a full-round action. Deployment costs 10 Electricity + 15 per previous use (it will need to be redeployed each day it is used).
The tank must be operated to function. Anyone inside the tank is protected from damage (generally). While operated, it has the following stats.
HP: 50
Attack: +9
AC: 18
Damage: 2d6+4
Speed: 40
CMB: 12
It may also fire a shell with a range of 80 ft and a radius of 10ft. This deals 2d6+5 and damage is halved on a reflex save of 20. It takes a full-round action to reload.
Mind Controller
The mind controller attaches inconspicuously to an NPC, giving you full control over them. It can be taken off and attached to another, transferring the effect. It costs 15 Electricity + 15 each time it is used, including a daily upkeep if kept on the same NPC.
DNA Analyzer
By collecting the DNA of another champion, you can choose to prevent any one source of damage from them in the future entirely. This takes one hour to analyze and the source of DNA. It costs 20 Electricity + 20 each time it is used, and can only be used once per champion.
This is a secret invention. You may not tell others about it, no matter what.
Hat of Techno-Disguise
You put the hat on and become an NPC to others. You can give instructions to be auto-piloted if need be. Putting the hat on costs 20 Electricity + 10 per previous use. You have to take it off when you go to sleep.
Capture Net
As a swift action, make a ranged touch attack on a target within 50 feet. If they fail a DC 25 reflex save, they are entangled until they make a CMB or Escape Artist check, or spend two full round actions to get free. Costs 15 Electricity + 15 per previous use.
FarSight
A rifle that can be fired by anyone to deal 1d6+5 damage. Reduces any concealment miss chance by one degree. Can be powered up to work a whole day at the cost of 5 Electricity + 5 per previous use.
Reality Marble
Can be thrown at another player to transport yourself, your champion, them and their champion into a plain circular arena that exists in its own dimension. Can be escaped by destroying the outer wall. Costs 35 Electricity + 20 per previous use.
Instant Wall
Can be set up and triggered in advance or thrown to set up a large, hard to break wall. Costs 5 Electricity + 10 per previous use.
Instant Fortress
Set up a hard to breach tower. Has a gun turret on each corner that automatically fires at enemies, dealing 1d6+5 damage (can be destroyed). Takes one minute to construct. Costs 25 Electricity + 25 per previous use.
Being planted with a swift action, the autohorn causes all (except for Caster and his Summoner) within 60 feet to make a Will save. If they fail a DC 20, they take 1 Will damage. In addition, they take nonlethal damage equal to 20 minus their Will save. This can be planted for 10 Electricity + 15 Electricity for each previous time it was planted.
Chaos Worm
Phone add-on that hacks reality. Swift action at start of round. Until the round is over, Caster can force any roll to be rerolled (with the new result being used. Can be used for 10 Electricity + 10 Electricity for each previous time used.
Robo Raven
A robotic raven that can be programmed to scout for up to 8 hours. Costs 5 Electricity + 10 Electricity for each previous use.
Mimir Search Engine
Phone add-on that can search any topic with a +20 knowledge check. Costs 2 Electricity + 2 Electricity for each previous use.
Rainbow Teleporter
Can teleport any number of creatures within close range to anywhere on the island. Costs 25 Electricity + 25 Electricity for each previous use.
Pocket Tank
A tank that fits in your pocket and can be turned into a large sized tank as a full-round action (including one person climbing into it). It can also be turned back as a full-round action. Deployment costs 10 Electricity + 15 per previous use (it will need to be redeployed each day it is used).
The tank must be operated to function. Anyone inside the tank is protected from damage (generally). While operated, it has the following stats.
HP: 50
Attack: +9
AC: 18
Damage: 2d6+4
Speed: 40
CMB: 12
It may also fire a shell with a range of 80 ft and a radius of 10ft. This deals 2d6+5 and damage is halved on a reflex save of 20. It takes a full-round action to reload.
Mind Controller
The mind controller attaches inconspicuously to an NPC, giving you full control over them. It can be taken off and attached to another, transferring the effect. It costs 15 Electricity + 15 each time it is used, including a daily upkeep if kept on the same NPC.
DNA Analyzer
By collecting the DNA of another champion, you can choose to prevent any one source of damage from them in the future entirely. This takes one hour to analyze and the source of DNA. It costs 20 Electricity + 20 each time it is used, and can only be used once per champion.
This is a secret invention. You may not tell others about it, no matter what.
Hat of Techno-Disguise
You put the hat on and become an NPC to others. You can give instructions to be auto-piloted if need be. Putting the hat on costs 20 Electricity + 10 per previous use. You have to take it off when you go to sleep.
Capture Net
As a swift action, make a ranged touch attack on a target within 50 feet. If they fail a DC 25 reflex save, they are entangled until they make a CMB or Escape Artist check, or spend two full round actions to get free. Costs 15 Electricity + 15 per previous use.
FarSight
A rifle that can be fired by anyone to deal 1d6+5 damage. Reduces any concealment miss chance by one degree. Can be powered up to work a whole day at the cost of 5 Electricity + 5 per previous use.
Reality Marble
Can be thrown at another player to transport yourself, your champion, them and their champion into a plain circular arena that exists in its own dimension. Can be escaped by destroying the outer wall. Costs 35 Electricity + 20 per previous use.
Instant Wall
Can be set up and triggered in advance or thrown to set up a large, hard to break wall. Costs 5 Electricity + 10 per previous use.
Instant Fortress
Set up a hard to breach tower. Has a gun turret on each corner that automatically fires at enemies, dealing 1d6+5 damage (can be destroyed). Takes one minute to construct. Costs 25 Electricity + 25 per previous use.
In my opinion, Caster had the most fun design. He was able to replicate other champion's abilities and reproduce versions of them, in addition to being able to store mundane items and reproduce them later. With enough resource generation, he was extremely powerful and had possibly near infinite damage from his trademark if he could build up enough electricity.
Ullar was also just a fun player to watch and major props to him for the amount of roleplaying and character interactions they had. All of the top 4 (Knight/Archer/Rider/Caster) had a ton of social game going for them and I think that is what ultimate got them to the top, despite not necessarily having the best champions.
He started off strong by working with Monk, but got very unlucky Day 1 when his fight with Zerker cost him two order spells and a bunch of mana. From there, he and Monk were hunted down by most of the game, which resulted in Caster's Summoner dying D2. Fortunately, Monk used an OS to bind with Caster and work with him to escape. Which was great, until Archer's totem lured them into the Trojan horse and got monk killed. Ullar then entered into a loose alliance with Archer, giving the ranged champion both his own totem and zerker's totem. He then went and stayed in a hotel room as per Archer's orders. Unbeknownst to both of them, Assassin was tracking Archer and discovered Caster was in the hotel. Assassin then led an attack on the hotel while disguised as the Police Chief and roped Rider and Knight into helping him. With some quick thinking, Caster realized what was about to happen and disguised himself using the invention he stole from Archer. This led to a hilarious scene in the police station where two players were disguised as NPC's (Caster and Assassin) and Rider and Knight were trying to interrogate the disguised Caster into getting information while the disguised Assassin was trying to get Rider and Knight to realize that this person had to be Caster.
Caster then managed to escape the Police Station by turning part of his cell into tin foil, but was quickly intercepted by Rider. Instead of Rider attacking him however, Rider made an alliance with Caster and created a 3 person alliance with Rider/Caster/Knight. They together created the wonderfully insane plan to create a Philosopher's stone with the Cave's mana barrier. Initially that plan would have been foiled by Assassin, but assassin was dead by the time they went to fulfill it. However, with some crafty thinking and good rolls, they were able to destroy the barrier and convert Caster's Reality marble into...a stone that held some additional mana. Instead, Niihau started pouring out of the cave and threatened to overwhelm the group. Caster, who was going to be dying soon anyways because of the mana loss (from a lack of Summoner) decided to sacrifice himself to try and take out the Nii'haus, or at least let Rider and Knight escape. While Caster was unable to destroy the Nii'haus, he did hold them back long enough to allow his friends to get away and died in probably one of the most heroic ways to die in a PSW.
3rd Place - Knight - Maxim
Another super fun player to watch. Maxim did an amazing job giving character to both his Summoner and Champion and started off each day doing some roleplay between the two. If this game was based solely on roleplaying, Maxim would be in 1st.
Knight was not the strongest champion, but he was still an insane powerhouse and King of 1v1's. He had a ton of crowd control potential and could even make coats out of his opponents and wear them. His trademark was super punishing but unfortunately, never saw that much use outside of Monk.
Maxim spent most of Day 1 and 2 laying low and gathering information. This changed when he met Rider, and stayed in good contact with him for most of the game. Even partnering with him after Knight died and helping Rider defeat Archer and being the first to fight a super secret boss that might be around next PSW.
He also had a great deal of creativity when it came to the game, he did probably one of the coolest order spells when he summoned Ammit, a giant crocodile goddess who essentially ended the massive Battle at Saviortown. He also used his ability to contact the dead to contact the original heroof the island and gain some bonus information on the Nii'hau and some of the things I have planned for PSW 8.
2nd place - Archer -Moodycloud
There's an anime out now titled something like "The hero is overpowered by overly cautious" and I can't think of a most accurate title for Archer. His play, while still pretty good, was extremely cautious. This did let him snoop on enemies and survive long into late game, but it also created tension among his possible allies.
His disguise skill let him remain fairly anonymous and protected for most of the game and he spent a lot of the first few days in hiding, waiting to ambush people. In fact, during Night 1 Zerker decided to go from the Southern point of the island to the Northernmost point, a journey that would have made him encounter either Rider or Archer depending on which road he took. Zerker ultimately encountered Rider, but if he had encountered Archer N1, Zerker probably would have been done for.
Archer had a lot of neat tricks that helped him over time, in particular, the totems. The totems created a really cool aspect of the game where champions had something of value to lose that wasn't their lives or mana. The totems of course, were also our disguise of the Trojan Horse which let him create an arena where he could usually win against most enemies.
However, this Archer was also pretty busted in Melee combat. Against Zerker (and partly because Archer was super buffed by having multiple totems) he was able to fight Zerker in melee and hold his own. Future Archers really shouldn't have a +20 damage mod and +10 to hit and I really don't know how we missed that.
Despite being the most deadly champion in the game, his spike in power died as the owners of the totems slowly died out. This eventually brought him into a 1v1 with Rider where he was at a known disadvantage. They skirmished around for awhile and in some of these skirmishes, Archer did quite well. But ultimately they couldn't overcome a Rider full of Orderspells and multiple tanks and sandstorms.
and now the winner of PSW 6
1st - Rider - Hitmonleet
If there's any one person who deserved to win this game, it was probably hitmonleet. Despite not having the strongest or versatile champion, he employed an extremely good social game that allowed him to acquire heaps of information and develop allies that protected him while destroying his foes. He was the first person to encounter every champion in the game (even if he didn't know he encountered Assassin) and at various points, was working with every champion in the game except for Savior.
Because Rider avoided fighting directly, most of his abilities didn't get to see a lot of play and his minions often served as the transportation for whomever he was working with at the moment.
His trademark allowed him to either ambush enemies or aid in rider's already impressive escape ability. However, it also ended up being very powerful against this version of Archer, something he utilized heavily in the final fight.
Finally, this dude has an insane amount of history knowledge. Like, major props to him, he was able to guess nearly every champion itg before they got revealed officially.
Conclusion
Thank you everyone for playing and waiting patiently for this long over due postgame. Partly because of that long time, there were certainly some things I missed or didn't cover fully. But otherwise, any feedback about the system we used or idea's for future PSW's are greatly appreciated. I personally still hope to run another one starting sometime in the next year or so.
Last edited:
this is really late but I was reminded of this thread and want to give a public shoutout to Former for this scene
e: for those curious, I played the role of a sushi delivery girl who worked for Grubhub. I panicked at the time, and had cast an enchaining spell on myself - in retrospect, this probably weakened my story, but it was a riot of a time. I'll try to dig up the logs, for posterity!
It was hilarious, and Former earned my respect during that rp session with how he stalled for time while i juggled working at Papa John's with being an NPC. I was amazed to hear that there were TWO fakes in that room afterward - immense kudos to the best host, who worked with four players disguised as two. One of the best moments I've ever had in a RPG game, hands down.
e: for those curious, I played the role of a sushi delivery girl who worked for Grubhub. I panicked at the time, and had cast an enchaining spell on myself - in retrospect, this probably weakened my story, but it was a riot of a time. I'll try to dig up the logs, for posterity!