Philosophy

Janenmori

I do not know how many philosophers or people interested in philosophy are here at Smogon, so I thought it would be an interesting idea to try out a thread about philosophy.

Philosophy literally means "to seek knowledge". Simply put it is used to find answers to important questions in life, (where do we come from?, what is the meaning of life?, what defines morality?, etc.). This thread is to address any philisophical questions one may have, or to dissucss overall morality, God, etc.

Theology goes hand in hand with philosophy so ask questions about God, religion, etc. too if you feel the need to. Perhaps a member may be able to answer the questions pertaining to a specific religion.

To start things off, I have a question:

What warrants forgiveness?
 
I do not know how many philosophers or people interested in philosophy are here at Smogon, so I thought it would be an interesting idea to try out a thread about philosophy.
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I'm studying it!

What warrants forgiveness?
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Everything and anything, regardless of whether repentance is shown. People should receive the punishment their misdemeanour deserves but there is no reason to bear a grudge - doing so will not have any positive impact but to blight your own life.
 
timw06 said:
I'm studying it!



Everything and anything, regardless of whether repentance is shown. People should receive the punishment their misdemeanour deserves but there is no reason to bear a grudge - doing so will not have any positive impact but to blight your own life.
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Alright very nice. I would have to agree with that statement.

Here is another qestion:

What defines the act of forgiveness itself? Does it require a physical act, an emotional act, or both to be effective or true?
 
Janenmori said:
Alright very nice. I would have to agree with that statement.

Here is another qestion:

What defines the act of forgiveness itself? Does it require a physical act, an emotional act, or both to be effective or true?
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A physical act without an emotional act is simply deception. You can also forgive someone without letting them know, such as when the forgiven party has died. Forgiveness is a state of mind, so all it requires is one being able to go into that state of mind.
 
But the sign of just the physical act suggests that the emotion is behind the act, or at least the intention does it not?
 
Trying to express forgiveness physically, even if one does not mean it, should be worth something. It's obviously not as good as meaning it, but it can act as a catalyst towards full forgiveness. That's why you have people who have been fighting or arguing shake hands, despite their reluctance. It is a symbol of wanting to move on.
 
Nice first post. It is true that attitudes often follow actions and vie versa. New topic:

Why does man need answers? Or why does man think it needs answers?
 
That is the nature of the beast (man that is). What seperates us from the world of animals is that we HAVE the capacity to wonder... Why the hell am I here? (that doesn't really answer why though does it, lol)

IMO, man seeks answers cause life sucks. What would you question more: Randomly winning one million dollars or randomly loosing it?

Probably the latter. Alot of the time life and existence is like the latter and man wants to know things like why life is so bad, what is the point of it, will I be safe if I die etc. Maybe this doesn't make too much sense but it is a good question.

On another similar note: I was watching a show the other day about what would happen if the human race suddenly disappeared. It brought up the interesting suggestion that we were a mistake and that life is meant to be like animals (unintelligent and instinctual). Would a sentient race replace us? Any thoughts?....
 
Excellent thought. I would say that perhaps over time that a new species could emerge with the same brain capacity to wonder as man. It would take thousands, perhaps millions of years, but it COULD happen. Or the way man can ponder is a simple mistake out of many in our genetic code that set us apart, but with this mistake we were able to develop tools to aid our survival where we were not physically able. If the human race DID vanish completely, there would be the next dominant species, but perhaps only out of physical dominance.

On that note, what really defines humanity? Is it the rationality that man possesses, or is it simply the emotion that we possess? Neither of these can be found in the animal kingdom beyond ourselves as far as we know. And expanding from humanity, does one really need emotion to be called human, or simply rationality? Rationality does make us human but so does emotion even if emotion blurs the rationality that makes us human. Discuss.
 
It's more the idea of self-concept, that humans can actually study themselves. There's animals that are rational (well, depends how you define it) and definitely emotional. Monkeys come to mind. However, we're the only species that is actually capable of studying ourselves. This is evident in the fields of psychology, sociology, etc.
 
What is seen as an emotion here, as far as I know, fear is an emotion and is pretty much felt by all animals.
 
Animals experience emotion. I know some people say they can't, but they're full of it.

I'd say that the only thing that truly sets us apart from other similar organisms is our exceptional intellect.
 
But how can we say we have exceptional intellect? We don't know what animals think. We hardly know what humans think so what gives us the idea to think we understand animals. We might have evolved but so have countless other animals. I think that nothing really sets us apart. We're all members of the animal kingdom and humans just seem to dominate this kingdom.
 
an interresting thing to compare is brain size

i05crher1ayo6.jpg
 
Ulquiorra said:
But how can we say we have exceptional intellect? We don't know what animals think. We hardly know what humans think so what gives us the idea to think we understand animals. We might have evolved but so have countless other animals. I think that nothing really sets us apart. We're all members of the animal kingdom and humans just seem to dominate this kingdom.
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I'd say the very fact that we dominate the planet is evidence enough of our exceptional intellect. There are other animals that are very intelligent, but if you honestly think they even come close to matching us, you're crazy.
 
Animals are intelligent instinctually. Fear is not an emotion, it is an instinctual tool used to survive danger and to activate adrenaline response. Humans are intelligent rationally. They are able to say there is one banana and one orange so there are two fruit. An animal sees the two but cannot define them as any more than a meal. Animals cannot feel in the same sense humans do, because humans rationalize feeling.

@ Vineon- You compare brain sizes, but what are the actual animal's body size compared to the brain.

Do not turn this into a "humans are better than animals or vice versa" thread please.
 
Janenmori said:
@ Vineon- You compare brain sizes, but what are the actual animal's body size compared to the brain.
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lol, I am not giving any sort of value to my picture, I just think it is funny to look at, the way it is presented.

and fear is an emotion (backed by all definitions of the words fear and emotion), whether you want to classify emotions into different subgroups, I think you should probably consider that all emotions can be somewhat related to instinct. How can we claim that love for example isn't, that anger isn't, that sadness isn't. Most of them are automatic and uncontrolled reactions to some stimulus and have a reason to be.

What are those human-exlusive emotions and how can we efficiently measure that only human beings feel them.

my grandma's african grey parrot was diagnosed with depression and would constantly tear its feathers off
 
Alright going off of the animal emotion topic:

What defines emotion? What is the purpose of emotion in animals? What is the purpose of emotion in humans? Is there a difference in emotion between humans and, if they can feel emotion, animals?
 
I tend to agree with the notion that emotions are instinctual urges that evolved to aid in the continured suvival of all species. The range of emotion of which a certain species is capable, however, is largely dependant on the development of its brain. Most animals, including some invertebrates, feel fear because it protects them from physical harm. More complex emotions, like love, are reseved for more complex brains, like those found in mammals. No one can deny that a cockroach fears a stomping foot or that a dog loves its puppy, if only to ensure its survival into adulthood.
Thus, I believe that emotions are not that which separates humans from animals, but that which connects us. We may never know if animals are self-aware or whether they participate in self-examination, but we can all empathize with a lioness as she mourns her lost cub. Cold, rational thought may indeed be the defining characteristic of humanity, but if that were all there was to being human, then I would like no part in it.
 
gasianguy said:
I tend to agree with the notion that emotions are instinctual urges that evolved to aid in the continured suvival of all species. The range of emotion of which a certain species is capable, however, is largely dependant on the development of its brain. Most animals, including some invertebrates, feel fear because it protects them from physical harm. More complex emotions, like love, are reseved for more complex brains, like those found in mammals. No one can deny that a cockroach fears a stomping foot or that a dog loves its puppy, if only to ensure its survival into adulthood.
Thus, I believe that emotions are not that which separates humans from animals, but that which connects us. We may never know if animals are self-aware or whether they participate in self-examination, but we can all empathize with a lioness as she mourns her lost cub. Cold, rational thought may indeed be the defining characteristic of humanity, but if that were all there was to being human, then I would like no part in it.
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Agree on every point. Love evolved so the parents could stay together long enough to have and raise an offspring, fear evolved to protect from injury/death, etc.
 
Fear is not an emotion,
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Fear is an emotion, actually. It’s a very simple emotion, but it’s an emotion nonetheless. It’s a feeling thus it’s an emotion. Emotions are actually pretty instinctual, they’re not as complicated as people seem to think. If you feel an emotion, you feel it on impulse, you don’t usually choose what emotions you want to feel at that particular time.

What defines emotion?
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I think that’s kind of simple. It’s a chemical reaction that makes you feel something completely in the mind rather than just physical pain/pleasure.

What is the purpose of emotion in animals?
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That depends on the emotion. Fear and aggression are obvious, but other emotions have their uses, too. Chimpanzees are capable of feeling empathy, so I’d probably conclude that empathy helps keep a social structure together. Chimps are also capable of laughter which may also be a social thing. Basically, any emotion that we or other animals have that involves other people is probably an evolutionary trait for social interaction. After all, we and many other species are social animals. We live in groups, not alone.

What is the purpose of emotion in humans?
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Same as animals, really. It may have changed a bit though with the evolution of our society and our culture.

Is there a difference in emotion between humans and, if they can feel emotion, animals?
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I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that animals can’t feel emotions. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who’s ever had a pet that they do. Ever see a dog wag its tail or whimper? Those are behaviors responding to emotion. People underestimate and assume the worst in animals, IMO, because they want to justify being “better” than them or something.

Other than a few emotions that may have evolved exclusively in primates, I’d say no, there probably isn’t a huge difference between human emotions and other animals’ emotions.

I agree that love evolved for animals to stay with their families. A mother mammal will protect its young with its very life. There’s no denying that the mother loves her offspring, and human mothers often feel instinctual love for their babies.

Also, any social species has a more complex field of emotional responsibility and others to protect besides just their offspring, so love isn't felt ONLY for them.

As for the forgiveness question goes:
That all depends on the person you’re asking for forgiveness. If you wronged someone and seek forgiveness for it, it’s completely up to that person to forgive you or not, and if they don’t, tough cookies, you have to live with what you did.
 
Even an ant will sacrifice its life to protect its queen. Of course, this doesn't quite compare to the love that most of us feel for our mothers, but humans are the most advanced of all species with respect to brain development, so it follows that the love that we feel is more complex than that which an ant feels. That which makes us human isn't the fact that we can feel love, but rather the fact that we can define love.
 
This is weird I was just thinking about making a thread on this subject. I'm really big on Franz Grillparzer and Friedrich Nietzsche. Matt Fox has to be my favorite though, even though he is more known as lyricist, I don't see the difference with him. Some of my favorite quotes by the above.


"I am considered a misanthropist now and then. Because I do not socialize with many people. But it's only my mind that avoids you,

my heart is still with you. And seeks the distance so that it can keep on loving you."

~ Franz Grillparzer


"In Heaven all the interesting people are missing."

~Friedrich Nietzsche


"We have all been so wrong -
Conditioned to accept and approve of substandard
Communication and behavior.
Reason is clouding,
Hearts are hardening,
And the result is murder.
This age is grave bound,
Likewise its aging successors.
Aging, all the while, descending -
Developing an even more insatiable thirst for chaos.
Life among hyenas and asps under vultures
That pick at the corpses of the fallen.

And man will continue to suffer unto itself
Until some stand to rally the fray by firm example.

Chaos must succumb to order
Lest these days be numbered.

I cannot contribute to disarray.
I simply cannot relate."

~ Matt Fox



Obviously, I have man kind.
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