Well, 1HP Flail has a Base Power of 200, meaning it'll do about twice as much damage as Return, meaning it'll OHKO practically anything Return 2HKOs.
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Pokémon Pinsir
- Thread starter Adonzo
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Well, 1HP Flail has a Base Power of 200, meaning it'll do about twice as much damage as Return, meaning it'll OHKO practically anything Return 2HKOs.
This also means it'll do about as much with no SDs as Return will do with one. And an SD seems like a much easier thing to set up.
This is true, a lot of the advantage to Subbing down to 1HP was always the ability to activate pinch berries in relative safety, which Mega Pinsir obviously can't do. Still, it depends on whether there are threats that can tank a return and OHKO back (so they'll OHKO if you SD in their face), but can't tank a full-power Flail. Or other weird situationals where you need to do your setup without making yourself vulnerable.
True, and it's weakness to Stealth Rock actually helps in that regard (never thought anyone would ever say that huh?) as it means that it takes 1/4 of its health instead of 1/8, meaning you can reliably get to that crucial 1HP. However, if there are one or two layers of spikes, or toxic spikes, it will screw up the percentages, and once it's at 1HP, assuming they break your Substitute on that turn, then any priority will destroy it. You're unlikely to get a SD off, so any Quick Attacks you do will be half of the SD set. The only advantage it really has over the SD set is that if it switches out, if you can somehow switch it in again without it taking any damage, it will be at full power. However, Mega Pinsir doesn't do a lot of switching anyway so...
There's definitely stuff it would help against, like Rotom. But I don't think it'd ever be worth it. Better to leave the washing machine to your other team members.
A bulk-up set could be viable, too bad we don't have reliable recovering.
Agreed. You don't need the extra power; return is already 108 BP, with his ability and stab it becomes 210 BP vs 234 BP from double edge. 24 BP isn't worth the recoil.
if you want a 120 BP move you sould use thrash IMO it's legal with with quick attack and has the same power as DE without the recoil at the cost of being locked in but unlike other lock in moves nothing is immune to it and it hits like a fucking mack truck from mega pinsir's absurd 155 base attacking stat.
Actually I agree with this. If Outrage was 100% legit option to run on all dragons, I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same in case of Flying Thrash taking into account how Flying STAB is great attack type to use. As you said - nothing is immune to it, and once boosted even resisted should hurt like hell coming from this attack.
Well you do have Sword Dance or possibly Moxie though in both cases good luck finding the opportunity to boost, especially given that most players generally will try to prevent giving MPinsir that set up opportunity or attack him in his vulnerable form.
If you're using an SD set I could see Thrash working, but the utility of having Pinsir pop in, slice through something, and pop out is so great that I'd hate to give it up for a lock move. You really have to keep SR off the field for that to work, though.
And it's worth bearing in mind that when fighting a faster foe, Return+QA does more than Thrash.
And it's worth bearing in mind that when fighting a faster foe, Return+QA does more than Thrash.
Well at least they didnt make absol part flying. But then again absol isnt even that great a mega evo.
First off, that isn't the place for that kind of thing. Unless you're comparing Mega-Pinsir directly to Mega-Absol, for reasons such as competition of the Mega-Evo slot, please don't talk about Mega-Absol. And actually, it raises an interesting question - what are the advantages one has over the other? They both play similar roles, as a fast but relatively frail late game sweeper, but each has advantages over the other. Mega-Pinsir has the advantage of better physical bulk and STAB moves - including a semi-unique type of priority - and non-mega abilities it can actually make use of, whereas Absol has Magic Bounce, greater speed and attack, and a more powerful, albeit situational, priority move. Obviously you can build teams around each of them, and neither can stand on it's own without its mega stone, but the question is, which is more reliable?
You've pretty much nailed MPinsir's advantage which is that it can be a very difficult sweeper to stop due to its bulk in conjunction with its ability providing it some very potent STAB, Quick attack being the its biggest advantage, couple that with access to some very good coverage moves it becomes much easier to build around MPinsir. Still Aerilite Quick attack is its defining feature, it is just that good, not that Return is not incredible in itself but priority flying as we've seen with Talonflame is just too damn effective.
Not to mention, Pinsir isn't stopped dead in its tracks by TTar and Rotom-W thanks to Bug STAB, so it can actually spam its priority with impunity and not give free switches to them.
All I was saying was absol mega evo had wings but wasnt flying, while pinser mega was flying. However, Answering your question, they probably wouldnt be placed in the same tier anyways, so I dont think they will generally be choiced against eachother
Neutral Return has about 200 power. Resisted Return has about 100 power. Neutral X-Scissor has 120 power.
Pinsir has EQ for TTar. It should never use Bug moves; they won't get it past Rotom and are worthless against the entire rest of the metagame. Literally every relevant Pokemon not named Rotom is either neutral to Return, weak to EQ, or resistant to Bug.
Imagine if pinsir got explosion... Stab + x1.3 boost = 487.5 bp flying type explosions without an immunity like normal. Basically a pre-nerfed explosion.
AARGH! Why does everyone say that Mega-Absol has wings!? If people actually read the official website, they would know that its fur "stands on end, giving ita the appearance of wings". Also, you DIDN'T just say that. You said Mega Absol was bad. And now you say it will be in different tiers anyway. Why? Looking at the Absol page, most people agree that it will be at least UU, and plenty of UU pokemon see use in OU. And if you can use one over the other, then it's worth considering.
Ah, but Sucker Punch is more powerful than Aerilate Quick Attack, especially off of Mega-Absols attack. And Mega-Absol has plenty of coverage to back it up. But, Pinsir does have Return, which is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. Yes, Mega-Absol is a glass cannon, but so is Mega-Pinsir on the special side, and while 120 Def is great, it's just a shame it gets let down by it's 60HP. By a rough estimate, that's Shuckle standard. And we all know how BULKY shuckle is right? Don't get me wrong, that Def really helps it set up SD on the first turn, which it sorely needs to do, but it's not THAT bulky.
Close combat > EQ IMO, mainly for Skarmory (also slightly stronger against Rotom). Don't think you lose out on any coverage except against something stupid like Carbink.
Yeah, Mega-Pinsir really wants to go against Skarmory. It just loves fighting opponents who are physically defensive, can only be hit by a neutral non-stab move which lowers Mega-Pinsir's defenses, and can hit it back with a STAB super effective move. Yep, I can see why you would want close combat. I mean, you can't hit Aegislash except with return, but who cares right?
Forgot Aegislash, but close combat obviously isn't for going 1 on 1 with Skarm. It's for taking that final 50% off after you wear him down.
Still probably prefer close combat though, unless you have a Magnezone or you really have a problem with mixed Aegislash. Physical Aegis can't do much to you if you SD on the switch.
Flying/Ground coverage is underestimated because of all the immunities to ground. If you look at a type chart, they compliment each other almost perfectly - any type that resists one is weak to the other, with the exception of flying types and levitate, and Flying resists fighting. CC also increases Pinsir's vulnerability to priority. Bring a Magnezone for Skarmory if you're that worried.
Also, bringing CC instead of EQ leaves you unable to break Aegislash instead of unable to break Skarmory. You can't win against both of them, and you'll have an easier time against Aegislash because you can hit him super effectively.
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