Pokémon Pinsir

[Sucker Lunch]

Mold Breaker let's the opponent know it is in effect, so it will only catch an opponent that is not paying attention. Admittedly I am a victim of that. Un-Mega Evolved Mold Breaker EQ isn't something you can throw out safely since it is pretty weak and it can be punished. It's only comes into play with Rotom-W on the opposing team. Hyper Cutter only comes into play when the opponent has an Intimidate user: Landorus-T or Mega-Manetric (which you won't beat anyway). So both Hyper Cutter and Mold Breaker EQ are extremely situational: they only see use when A. the opponent has a certain Pokemon on their team and B. chooses to switch that Pokemon on Pinsir.

Moxie on the other hand can be applied to all of your matches. It adds an extra dimension to Pinsir as a threat: it can passively pick up boosts with EQ or Quick Attack. This can be incredibly handy in late game situations where you absolutely need to pick up a boost to cleanup. In the lategame, something maybe weak enough to fall to Quick Attack or Earthquake. Here is a tournament battle where that is exactly what happened (note QA does 4.1% min to ttar). Moxie overall is the most effective because it has the largest scope of battles / targets where it can be applied and its effects lasts through when you Mega-Evolve, i.e. the attack boost.

But then again, Moxie requires you to stay as normal pinsir for an extra turn which means you're stuck in the form of a NU mon.
I can then throw out a check or hazer to put Pinsir in a tight situation. I find that Moxie is also situational because normal pinsir is far from viable in an OU environment. However, Moxie does have the ability to change a game no doubt.

 

[doughboy]

Hyper Cutter is without a doubt the best ability for it imo, mainly for the extremely common lando t switch-ins. Mold Breaker requires you to stay in regular pinsir form, which sucks because pinsir before mega evolving is weak and has no coverage to speak of.Hyper cutter protects against lando t, mega man, and gyarados switch ins, which are very common. Moxie is decent, but situational and not as good as hc.

Thundy can't switch in, rotom can't switch in to +2, talon can't switch in, if sableye is weakened it dies to +2 qa. Also, it's pretty easy to set up with it in my experience.

If you know Landorus-T is going to switch-in on the turn you have Pinsir out and Mega-Evolve, you can SD:

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 316-373 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even if you don't SD, taking over a third out of Landorus-T's health on every switchin without SR is going to wear down Landorus-T very quickly. A one time immunity to Intimidate is not worth the ability to get passive attack boosts against slower teams. If the opponent can afford to, they can always just sack something to reapply Intimidate.

Other Intimidate users:

-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 201-237 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 190-224 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 200-236 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You outspeed and 2HKO Mawile and Gyarados. You get the OHKO on Mega Manectric, which is nice, but they normally don't switch in on Pinsir's in fear of Earthquakes. They switch in after Mega-Pinsir has killed something already. Moxie is not more situational than Hyper Cutter: Hyper Cutter is the most situational out of all three of Mega Pinsir's abilities.

Hyper Cutter: 1 turn immunity to Intimidate on the turn you Mega Evolve against 4 pokes in OU
Moxie: Pick off any weakened target for an attack boost long as you stay in

 

[Flan76]

Moxie: Pick off any weakened target for an attack boost long as you stay in

Moxie requires you to stay as regular pinsir, which sucks because it's frail as fuck and very slow and very weak. With hyper cutter you get a one time safety cushion against common lando t switch ins.

 

[Sucker Lunch]

I'm going to give Mold Breaker another week and see if I change my opinion about it. I love Hyper Cutter because of the immunity to Intimidate *cough* Landorus-T *cough* but the guys in the Viability thread seem to really love MB. Can't hurt to give it another shot. However, I will agree that Moxie is the worst ability you can have on Pinsir because it's even more situational than either MB and HC and requires you to stay in base form.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

I'm going to give Mold Breaker another week and see if I change my opinion about it. I love Hyper Cutter because of the immunity to Intimidate *cough* Landorus-T *cough* but the guys in the Viability thread seem to really love MB. Can't hurt to give it another shot. However, I will agree that Moxie is the worst ability you can have on Pinsir because it's even more situational than either MB and HC and requires you to stay in base form.

Well technically you have to stay in as Normal form for MB to work too...

 

[Sucker Lunch]

Well technically you have to stay in as Normal form for MB to work too...

Yeah but MB allows Pinsir to damage/kill one of Mega Pinsir's counters. It's a solid ability and it's worth staying in Normal Form for. However, Physically Defensive Rotom (which is really popular) can burn Pinsir in return on a predicted earthquake.

 

[L_Crow]

Isn't Cofagrigus an extremely good check to M-Pinsir? It can burn, crippling it. Mummy wrecks it as well, destroying its priority stab and stab Double-Edge. Also an un-STAB earthquake won't relatively touch a relaxed nature invested in defense cofagrigus. After Being burned and mummified a X-Scissor won't do anything to even talk about even before leftovers.

 

[Sucker Lunch]

Isn't Cofagrigus an extremely good check to M-Pinsir? It can burn, crippling it. Mummy wrecks it as well, destroying its priority stab and stab Double-Edge. Also an un-STAB earthquake won't relatively touch a relaxed nature invested in defense cofagrigus. After Being burned and mummified a X-Scissor won't do anything to even talk about even before leftovers.

Theoretically, yes. But cofagrigus isn't exactly an OU viable mon.

 

[Ryolain]

Moxie requires you to stay as regular pinsir, which sucks because it's frail as fuck and very slow and very weak. With hyper cutter you get a one time safety cushion against common lando t switch ins.

How is 65 HP/100 Def is "frail as fuck"? It's approximately as physically bulky as Rotom-W (50 HP/107 Def). Admittedly Rotom-W has much better resistances to rely on, but we're not talking about Deo-S here. MPinsir does gain 20 BP in its defenses when it evolves, but it also picks up weaknesses to the 2 most common special attacking types, Electric and Ice, as well as doubling its Rock weakness. Let's not pretend MPinsir is some massive tank in comparison to Pinsir. Also, while 120 Att isn't great by today's sweeper standards, it's respectable enough to revenge kill frail attackers with Quick Attack or dish out a good chunk of damage with EQ.

Obviously without MPinsir, Pinsir would probably still never see the light of day in OU, but it's not completely and utterly ridiculous to spend a couple turns as Pinsir depending on your opponent's team and where you are in the match, especially if those turns net you a free +1 Att. It's no more situational than Hyper Cutter, as evidenced by the calcs above against the 4 Intimidate Pokes in OU.

 

[Redolent]

Cofagrigus is a terrible counter

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 274-324 (85.6 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Dododoggy]

My friend & I are debating quick attack VS. Feint, I'm for quick attack while he is for feint. I know feint can outspeed almost every other priority move in the game but is the decrease in power really worth it? Here are some calculations I did.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 324-384 (89 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 330-390 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 248-294 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 192-226 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 96-114 (32.3 - 38.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 127-151 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[aPandaCub]

Cofagrigus is a terrible counter

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 274-324 (85.6 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

But then you take away Aerilate due to Mummy...

 

[haunter]

But then you take away Aerilate due to Mummy...

It's still a subpar option to deal with Pinsir, since the Pinsir user can just switch out (or finish off a weakened team with EQ and return), while you'll have lost your "counter" to it.

 

[midend]

It's still a subpar option to deal with Pinsir, since the Pinsir user can just switch out (or finish off a weakened team with EQ and return), while you'll have lost your "counter" to it.

Just curious, how many things can take a +2 return then quick attack from this thing anyway?

 

[haunter]

Just curious, how many things can take a +2 return then quick attack from this thing anyway?

Probably a lot, since it gets no stab nor the aerialite boost.

 

[Tomahawk]

My friend & I are debating quick attack VS. Feint, I'm for quick attack while he is for feint. I know feint can outspeed almost every other priority move in the game but is the decrease in power really worth it? Here are some calculations I did.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 324-384 (89 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 330-390 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 248-294 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 192-226 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 96-114 (32.3 - 38.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 127-151 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That is actually interesting, never really considered it (in fact, didn't even know Feint hit even without Protect). However, I think the uses are too few to really have an advantage over Quick Attack's higher base power, you need to wear down faster checks more to get them in Feint range, eg +2 Quick Attack KOes Thundurus if you can get it to switch on on SR twice or w/e, while Feint fails.

Still, beating other Pinsir and Talonflame (with SR) at +2 seems cool, but not notably better.

 

[aPandaCub]

The BP of Feint factoring in Aerialate and STAB is 58.5. Basically 30 BP leas than Aerialate and STAB boosted QA.

Not sure if someone else has already has done the math. Ill remove my comment if it ends up being a repeat.

 

[L_Crow]

It's still a subpar option to deal with Pinsir, since the Pinsir user can just switch out (or finish off a weakened team with EQ and return), while you'll have lost your "counter" to it.

Well say you predict the M-Pinsir send out cofagrigus and burn it and it uses sword dance, the swords dance is canceled out. They switch out into something that can easily take a hex. You switch out predict the pinsir and use a hex that's a double damage stab hex on it. I researched it, a m-pinsir could not take that.

 

[haunter]

Well say you predict the M-Pinsir send out cofagrigus and burn it and it uses sword dance, the swords dance is canceled out. They switch out into something that can easily take a hex. You switch out predict the pinsir and use a hex that's a double damage stab hex on it. I researched it, a m-pinsir could not take that.

The moment you switch in your Cofagrigus, the M-Pinsir will be at +2, so you eat a +2 aerialite boosted return and die. If you're saying that you predict your opponent's switch into Pinsir and switch in your Cofagrigus the same turn, then that's just irrelevant. Prediction should never be used as an argument, since it works both ways. If your opponent outpredicts you and switches in their Tyranitar, then you're likely going to be pursuited on the switch or just killed by crunch.

 

[aPandaCub]

Well say you predict the M-Pinsir send out cofagrigus and burn it and it uses sword dance, the swords dance is canceled out. They switch out into something that can easily take a hex. You switch out predict the pinsir and use a hex that's a double damage stab hex on it. I researched it, a m-pinsir could not take that.

Its been established that Cofagrigus is not a reliable Hard counter to a +2 Mega Pinsir. IMO, the only counters once Pinsir has got a boost is Rotom-W, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Bronzong is technically one as well, but since when do you see Bronzong. And all three of those pokemon can only tank hits when healthy.

 

[L_Crow]

Its been established that Cofagrigus is not a reliable Hard counter to a +2 Mega Pinsir. IMO, the only counters once Pinsir has got a boost is Rotom-W, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Bronzong is technically one as well, but since when do you see Bronzong. And all three of those pokemon can only tank hits when healthy.

Okay, okay, I understand cofagrigus is not a good check to M-Pinsir and those Pokemon are only good when healthy so thanks to you I understand the power of M-Pinsir. What is a good check to it?

 

[aPandaCub]

Okay, okay, I understand cofagrigus is not a good check to M-Pinsir and those Pokemon are only good when healthy so thanks to you I understand the power of M-Pinsir. What is a good check to it?

Things that can switch in AFTER Mega Pinsir has killed something that can threaten it out or revenge kill it include
-Scarf Magnezone
-Scarf Heatran
-Scarf Chomp
-Mega-Manetric
-Talonflame
-Thundurus-I

Basically, any viable scarfer that can take a +2 Quick Attack fairly well is a check. Fast electric types like Mega Manetric and Thundurus-I can also check Mega-Pinsir because they resist Flying. Talonflame can outprioritize and kill with a Brave Bird.

 

[Hidious]

Okay, okay, I understand cofagrigus is not a good check to M-Pinsir and those Pokemon are only good when healthy so thanks to you I understand the power of M-Pinsir. What is a good check to it?

Rotom wash and skarmory are a few of the best to switch in. Talonflame revenge kills it easily. Get up stealth rock and have bulky priority users and rotom wash/ skarmory and you are safe. Just having talonflame will prevent a sweep almost every time

 

[Dododoggy]

Things that can switch in AFTER Mega Pinsir has killed something that can threaten it out or revenge kill it include
-Scarf Magnezone
-Scarf Heatran
-Scarf Chomp
-Mega-Manetric
-Talonflame
-Thundurus-I

Basically, any viable scarfer that can take a +2 Quick Attack fairly well is a check. Fast electric types like Mega Manetric and Thundurus-I can also check Mega-Pinsir because they resist Flying. Talonflame can outprioritize and kill with a Brave Bird.

Also scarfed rotom-w and h.

 

[L_Crow]

Things that can switch in AFTER Mega Pinsir has killed something that can threaten it out or revenge kill it include
-Scarf Magnezone
-Scarf Heatran
-Scarf Chomp
-Mega-Manetric
-Talonflame
-Thundurus-I

Basically, any viable scarfer that can take a +2 Quick Attack fairly well is a check. Fast electric types like Mega Manetric and Thundurus-I can also check Mega-Pinsir because they resist Flying. Talonflame can outprioritize and kill with a Brave Bird.

Okay I see what your saying so a good set would be?
Pinsir
N:Adamant
I:Pinsirite
A:Mold Breaker MA:Aerilate
M1:Quick Attack
M2:X-Scissor
M3:Earthquake
M4:???