I usually switch into my gengar actually. But he seems so vulnerable 90% of the time. That's why I'm considering the sash. Ill have to test it out to see how it works. What do you think of the EV spread?
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Please help me help my friend. Minimal exp with 5th gen metagame
- Thread starter ChaosSyn
- Start date
I usually switch into my gengar actually. But he seems so vulnerable 90% of the time. That's why I'm considering the sash. Ill have to test it out to see how it works. What do you think of the EV spread?
I like Gengar a lot. Especially with having a wider range of coverage now with the addition of HP Fire and T-bolt. Really it's T-Tar that i'm worried about being vulnerable. And sorry for the noob question, but what's a chople berry?
EDIT: I did make a few changes to my team in the first post (changes are in bold) so if you would be willing to look at those and help address some of my concerns there that would be great :)
For excadrill, use adamant and air balloon; u can set up on things that u normally can't, like gliscor. the only thing to consider over x-scissor is return. u get perfect coverage (except bronzong, which isn't very common anyway) and a powerful secondary attack, and can 2hko gliscor after SR. for ttar, use a different spread. not much different, but it doesn't get 2hkod by a specs latios surf:
Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers/Chople Berry (halves the damage of fighting moves)
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SAtk / 80 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam/Superpower
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
Yeah, pretty much the same as the set u have now, but superpower deserves a mention, to kill off other ttars or other fighting-weak pokes. on the current one u have 512 evs.
With salamence, definently use moxie, the power just keeps going up. use lum berry, leftovers, or expert belt. u don't want more residual damage than ur already getting from ss and sr.
If cloyster is raping the shit out of ur team, try a jirachi over bronzong. u paralyze, then flinch it to death. i fucking love it.
For gliscor, try this more offencive set:
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 128 SDef / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt/Facade
Since u seem adamant to keep gengar, i won't suggest anything in his place. but there are better options out there, especially since ur playing in dream world
Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers/Chople Berry (halves the damage of fighting moves)
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SAtk / 80 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam/Superpower
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
Yeah, pretty much the same as the set u have now, but superpower deserves a mention, to kill off other ttars or other fighting-weak pokes. on the current one u have 512 evs.
With salamence, definently use moxie, the power just keeps going up. use lum berry, leftovers, or expert belt. u don't want more residual damage than ur already getting from ss and sr.
If cloyster is raping the shit out of ur team, try a jirachi over bronzong. u paralyze, then flinch it to death. i fucking love it.
For gliscor, try this more offencive set:
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 128 SDef / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt/Facade
Since u seem adamant to keep gengar, i won't suggest anything in his place. but there are better options out there, especially since ur playing in dream world
I really like the jolly nature on Excadrill since he gets to out run other Excadrill basically every time and get the OHKO EQ. Air Ballon i had considered except that it's basically useless if i'm hit by anything other than a ground attack (does it reset if it's popped, i switch then bring him back out later?) but i'll try it out for S&G's. X-Scissor i think i'll keep at this point. The only reason i wasn't liking it was because i forgot what bug is strong against. But X-Scissor with Sand up and SR support OHKO's Latios/Latias basically everytime without a crit and i outspeed them with jolly and Sand Rush :). i might get rid of Swords dance for Return tho.
It's funny, this is the set i used to run but i don't really like how he plays for some reason. And why the sassy nature?
The reason i'm running intimidate on salamence is so i'm not in the dream world category. I don't really like expert belt since i hardly ever actually hit with a SE attack that kills that needed the Expert belt boost. Also i see him get status'd once every 10 times he's out so Leftovers is probably the best option here. Unless the berry that reduces ice damage would help?
I had considered Jirachi for this team except for the fact that it's not easily obtainable ingame which is what this team is for. Which is why i considered Ferrothorn.
I'm thinking more and more i either need to just suck it up and keep my current Gliscor or get rid of him completely. He's really good except for when it comes to taking water or ice attacks, so if i get rid of him then that's what i'll get rid of him for: a water/ice sponge.
Thank you for all of your suggestions :)
Since u seem adamant to keep gengar, i won't suggest anything in his place. but there are better options out there, especially since ur playing in dream world[/QUOTE]
I just realized u weren't in the dream world...
then use this set on mence:
Nero (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
I use this on every one of my teams, and it is that good.
On tyranitar, that set is it's main set, and the sassy nature is to make it very versatile. its a weather setter upperer, sr setup, mixed attacker, and special wall all in one. sassy because he doesn't give a shit about speed, and he needs bulk and the extra offences. u could try a scarf set on it, but this set is the best.
really @ Exca? return also ohkos latios at +2, and dont use anything over SD on exca. otherwise ur just using a fail Choice band set. use adamant since if u keep gliscor (which u should), u handle excadrill easily anyway. use air balloon cos u set up on so many things, and stops u from getting revenged by other excadrill anyway, and gliscor normally has to pop ur balloon with ice fang b4 it can hit u with eq. with it, u can switch into ground moves, which is the upside.
Keep gliscor, he serves as a mixed wall, and survives a wayward hp ice from lots with this spread. dont even consider anything else in this spot.
If u cant get a jirachi, then metagross works just as well.
then use this set on mence:
Nero (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
I use this on every one of my teams, and it is that good.
On tyranitar, that set is it's main set, and the sassy nature is to make it very versatile. its a weather setter upperer, sr setup, mixed attacker, and special wall all in one. sassy because he doesn't give a shit about speed, and he needs bulk and the extra offences. u could try a scarf set on it, but this set is the best.
really @ Exca? return also ohkos latios at +2, and dont use anything over SD on exca. otherwise ur just using a fail Choice band set. use adamant since if u keep gliscor (which u should), u handle excadrill easily anyway. use air balloon cos u set up on so many things, and stops u from getting revenged by other excadrill anyway, and gliscor normally has to pop ur balloon with ice fang b4 it can hit u with eq. with it, u can switch into ground moves, which is the upside.
Keep gliscor, he serves as a mixed wall, and survives a wayward hp ice from lots with this spread. dont even consider anything else in this spot.
If u cant get a jirachi, then metagross works just as well.
Out of curiousity why the lum berry over leftovers? Otherwise this looks pretty straightforward and strong.
I think i'll stick with the standard set you suggested. i'm not a fan of a scarf set unless i just wanna set up SR/taunt and switch.
I'll try it out with the nature and item adjustment and see how that works. i'll stick with the SD/Rock Slide/EQ/X-Scissor set for now.
HP Ice he survives from but barely when i'm in that situation and any water or ice moves he's faced so far has ended in a OHKO after SR damage. Is that normal?
I'm very interested in trying out metagross. He was one of my favorites in gen 4. What set would you suggest? Also, why not ferrothorn as an option? is he too stallish for this team?
Thank you a lot for your help thus far! This team has really turned around and i think it's almost done. Just a few more adjustments and it should be good to go. Although i'm still finding bulky waters and water/grounds a pain in the a**. Gengar so far is my only option of taking them out and he hit's the regular waters hard with T-bolt but after LO damage and SR damage he gets murdered by a stab surf/hydro pump. Any ideas on this subject?
Edit: What would you think about running either Choice Specs or Expert belt over LO on Gengar? That would give him a nice boost and wouldn't mean sacrificing his little amount of HP. Just a thought.
Edit 2: Upon further review of this team i have no Magnezone counter at all. It's too fast for me to hit it with my Salamence or my T-Tar and Gengar couldn't get to it (it was behind a sub, is this common for Magnezone?). Especially with it using Magnet rise i couldn't do anything against it. It was running Sub/Magnet rise/Charge Beam/Flash cannon (no idea if this is a standard set or not). Also i couldn't do anything against Rotom (don't know the name of the version but it was water/electric). More things for me to worry about.
if you go metagross id use banded or mixed. anyway, youre playing your gliscor wrong if youre keeping it in on water and ice moves.
*sigh* gastrodon counters both these....
*sigh* gastrodon counters both these....
I don't try to keep Gliscor in for either of those, but sometimes i mispredict or am forced to sacrifice him to take these attacks since nothing else can and he's the least useful from what i've found in late game. I liked having Gastrodon in here but he seemed to easily walled and when i switched him out they took a turn to set up which ended up hurting me badly.
Salamence for a lum berry because he can set up on and OHKO rotom-w, and he can also set up on blissey, zapdos, chansey, the list goes on. pretty much any wall, and stops confusion from outrage. Lefties rnt too good on mence, not as useful, and he doesn't need to stay in long to wreck the opponent.
U dont really need a magnezone, cos only noobs use magnet rise. u could c an air balloon one, but y dont u just hit it with fire blast? yeah, just get rid of the balloon and ur fine, ohkoing it with a ground move. gliscor counters it anyway. ur obviously not playing it rite.
with scor, if its a poke that u think has hydro pump or ice move, switch instantly to metagross. unstabed surf is no problem cos it normally fails to 2hko. the reason hp ice might ohko with SR is because he still hasn't been poisoned yet, or its a crit, or its from a specsed poke.
Ferro isn't too useful on this team, cos you counter everything he does anyway, and u already have enough bulky mons.
so rotom-w counters u? yeah, hes a beast ;0 I use him. super annoying, but as i said earlier, salamence survives a will o wisp cos of lum, and gets a dd, then ohko back with outrage. will o wisp can even miss, so u save ur lum.
Another check to rotom-w is Ferrothorn (only if it doesn't run hp fire) or blissey. she can heal off any burns and pass wishes 2 ur team, but if u use it, u have 3 weak to fighting
U dont really need a magnezone, cos only noobs use magnet rise. u could c an air balloon one, but y dont u just hit it with fire blast? yeah, just get rid of the balloon and ur fine, ohkoing it with a ground move. gliscor counters it anyway. ur obviously not playing it rite.
with scor, if its a poke that u think has hydro pump or ice move, switch instantly to metagross. unstabed surf is no problem cos it normally fails to 2hko. the reason hp ice might ohko with SR is because he still hasn't been poisoned yet, or its a crit, or its from a specsed poke.
Ferro isn't too useful on this team, cos you counter everything he does anyway, and u already have enough bulky mons.
so rotom-w counters u? yeah, hes a beast ;0 I use him. super annoying, but as i said earlier, salamence survives a will o wisp cos of lum, and gets a dd, then ohko back with outrage. will o wisp can even miss, so u save ur lum.
Another check to rotom-w is Ferrothorn (only if it doesn't run hp fire) or blissey. she can heal off any burns and pass wishes 2 ur team, but if u use it, u have 3 weak to fighting
So would you suggest i replace Bronzong with Metagross? Or with Gastrodon? I really liked Metagross in 3rd and 4th gen but idk how much he's changed with the current metagame. Also i did try Gastrodon before but didn't like his lack of power. He walled nicely but allowed a free set up when i had to switch out. I'm willing to try both out with all of these changes so if you would help me out with your preferred poke and set that would be awesome :)
EDIT: What are the advantages/disadvantages of using HP Fire over HP Ice on Gengar? I feel like Ice would help him with coverage and would allow me to hit some pesky dragons a bit better. I do realize that it would leave me more open to being walled by Water types but just wondering if there is more to it in the decision.
metagross. try an agiligross with life orb, cos its a real tank sweeper thing if it gets a boost from meteor mash. i know that from my experiences, from one of my first ever teams, he was beast.
If u still wanna run gengar, try a taunt set. i use it a lot, and catches so many people off, cos they like 'wtf? gengar with taunt? u noob' but its good nonetheless.
Set of timid, LO, Shadow ball/focus blast/tbolt/taunt is good, with the standard gar spread
If u still wanna run gengar, try a taunt set. i use it a lot, and catches so many people off, cos they like 'wtf? gengar with taunt? u noob' but its good nonetheless.
Set of timid, LO, Shadow ball/focus blast/tbolt/taunt is good, with the standard gar spread
So to be clear this would be the set to run for Metagross?
Metagross @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly (not sure which one i should go with)
60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Agility
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Thunderpunch/Zen Headbutt (i'm thinking T-punch for helping with my bulky water problem)
I'm not too sure about running Taunt on Gengar. I'm liking the coverage with HP and not too sure about giving that up. But i am considering using HP Ice over fire for the coverage of boltbeam. But i'm also considering either a Choice Scarf or Specs on here to use it as more of a revenge killer. what are your thoughts?
I'm LOVING that metagross in place of bronzong. It's a monster. Especially since when i send him in even if he does take a hit while i set up agility 9/10 he isn't OHKO'd so i just go to work from there. I've also come to the conclusion that i'm not going to be able to make this team perfect and have a counter for everything but i did notice that i have a problem dealing with Hippowdon. Gliscor is the only one on my team that has an attack that's super effective against him and since the ones i faced all had ice fang i couldn't send out Salamence to try to outrage him. So far that's the only problems i have had since i added in metagross. I'm not too sure about running disable on gengar, i've already tried subsplit and didn't like it and taunt seems almost wasted IMO.
Hm. Needs more Magnezone.
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ev's: 40 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 208 Spd
~ Hidden Power (Fire/Ice)
~ Thunderbolt
~ Substitute
~ Filler move (i.e. Flash Cannon, Magnet Rise, etc.)
Magnezone, Tyrantar, and Gengar make a beautiful offensive core together. Gengar is rid of other ghost types and Psychic types by Tyrantar's Pursuit, Magnezone's ground weakness is immune from Gengar, and Magnezone can get rid of annoying Steel types.
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ev's: 40 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 208 Spd
~ Hidden Power (Fire/Ice)
~ Thunderbolt
~ Substitute
~ Filler move (i.e. Flash Cannon, Magnet Rise, etc.)
Magnezone, Tyrantar, and Gengar make a beautiful offensive core together. Gengar is rid of other ghost types and Psychic types by Tyrantar's Pursuit, Magnezone's ground weakness is immune from Gengar, and Magnezone can get rid of annoying Steel types.
I am considering Magnezone since i'm finding some troubles with Politoed. But i'm finding Metagross extremely helpful in every other situation. What if i switched magnezone in for gengar? since gengar isn't really being too helpful. Or switching out gengar for someone specifically dealing with water types (especially swampert and other water/ground types).
Your using Gengar wrong. :P
Gengar @ Life Orb
Timid
Ev's: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
~ Substitute
~ Pain Split
See if that works better.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Timid
Ev's: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
~ Substitute
~ Pain Split
See if that works better.
I used to use the subslit gengar but i found he was somewhat easily set up on and he didn't have good enough coverage. I would have to switch him out too often which meant my sub was wasted. The pain split wasn't working that well either since most of the time i would pain split them then they would end up wrecking me. Although they were weakened by pain split they lived and i didn't. I've had much more success with this set.
the problem is tho i'm being destroyed by politoed with both of my pokes with an electric attack (this guy and metagross) so if i take away t-bolt on gengar then i'm left with metagross to take out politoed and try to do the rest of his part? If politoed hits me with a STAB hydro pump in the rain my metagross is toast. But politoed even out runs my gengar so i'm screwed no matter what i do :/
So basically all of my problems revolve around water types right now (especially politoed, vaporeon, quagsire and swampert). Any ideas guys?
Virizon and breloom both interest me. Do you happen to have any good sets for them that will work for gengar's replacement? Also what's "ss"? Sorry for the noob question :/
Oh gotcha. I kept seeing that said but didn't know what it meant. I'm such a noob with 5th gen that i don't know what set you mean for virizion and do you mean this set for breloom?
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Adamant/jolly
12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Speed
Substitute
Spore
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb/Stone Edge