VGC Pledging Allegiance to Shower Thoughts

[JETZero3]

Hello everyone.

So let's start this rate where all...good...ideas begin; the shower. Today's shower thought: I've made two teams based around bulky Fairy types, so I should do something different...how about a Pledge team? (Also, please mind the formatting. Still working it out a bit. )

Before we begin, let's get some things about Pledges out of the way.

​

Some Useful Pledge Mechanics to Know

1. When two Pledges combine, the power of the combined move is 160, and the type is based on which one would be super effective on the other (in my case, Grass and Water pledge would be Grass type)
2. If you target two Pokemon with two Pledge moves in the same turn, the damage will be dealt to whoever the slower Pokemon targeted.
3. If two Pledge moves are used, and one Pokemon is unable to use their move (through Fake Out or paralysis), both moves fail. It's all or nothing.
4. The combination of Grass and Water Pledge creates a swamp that slows down the opposing Pokemon by 50% for four turns. It's essentially a reverse Tailwind for the opposing team (unsure if this catches Flying Pokemon. If someone could let me know, that'd be amazing).
5. You can use a Pledge move by itself. It'll just be an 80 BP move, with no added effect.

​

Teambuilding Process:

Teambuilding Process:

The first two members of the team go hand in hand. Mega Charizard Y sets up the sun, which lets Chlorophyll Venusaur begin launching powerful attacks. Honestly, I don't believe a better pair exists to begin a Pledge team.

Here, we see the not so obvious decisions, beginning with my choice to include a Water Pledge user, because I figured the flexibility in having multiple effects available would be beneficial to the team. My choice at this point was Swampert, due to its bulk and lack of weakness to Landorus-T (beating out Greninja and Empoleon, respectively).

At this point, I look at the team, and I noticed that Fire types gave me a bit of trouble, considering that Swampert’s Water Pledge would be less powerful due to sun if it was out with Charizard. Therefore, I brought in Heatran. It soaks up all the Fire type attacks, and can hit them all with the preferred coverage moves. It also provided a solid Fairy resist. Considering the next two picks, this was pretty important.

Latias is a thing. A bulky thing. A thing that just so happens to cover Heatran's weaknesses quite well, and has access to speed control. I like Latias. It's a good thing.

For the final member of the team, Hitmontop just seemed like a solid choice. The amount of utility you can put on one mon is pretty incredible, especially the Intimidate support, which helps my matchup against Mega Kangaskhan.

So my first few games went pretty badly. The fact that I rarely brought Swampert gave me two choices: give up on Water Pledge, or replace Swampert with another Water type starter. Therefore, I gave up bulk for speed, bringing in Greninja. I suppose this follows the general pledge core.

So, long story short, I got destroyed. Maybe that’s an overstatement, but I was not doing well. The team needed a major overhaul. I looked at the pledge combinations, and saw that Charizard was essentially killing my Water Pledges, so I swapped Mega Stones with Venusaur and removed Charizard. Next, I realized that Hitmontop wasn’t really doing anything for me after Charizard’s departure, as Wide Guard wasn’t exactly useful. So I pulled out my ol’ Landorus-T Assault Vest set. Finally, after trying standard Bisharp, Mixed Aegislash, and Lum Malamar, I went with Malamar, due to Contrary and the nice Bulk Up Superpower.

The Team:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Grass Pledge
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect
Using Venusaur as the Grass Pledge user made sense at the start of this team's creation, with Charizard's Drought providing it a nice speed boost. However, Venusaur works well outside of sun, thanks to its Mega Evolution. The set is fairly standard in and of itself. Grass Pledge is mandatory on a Pledge team obviously. Sludge Bomb is a nice secondary STAB, which helps M-Venusaur deal with the Grass types. Sleep Powder is used for the nice sleep utility, as it help with the single target nature of Pledge moves, which I value more than the recovery Leech Seed brings. Protect is used, since...VGC? I guess it's worth noting that this Venusaur is frailer than most M-Venusaurs out there, due to the fact that Pledge moves work off of the slower Pokemon's Special Attack, and the next member happens to be much faster than Mega Venusaur. Which leads us to...

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Pledge
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Protect
Greninja was used over other candidates like Empoleon, Blastoise, and Swampert due to its incredible speed and general power thanks to Protean. Once again, the Pledge move is incredibly obvious, and doesn't need much explanation. Ice Beam hits the mons that resist Water Pledge, besides Water types. However, Venusaur tends to take care of those quite well. Extrasensory hits Mega Venusaur, which brushes Water Pledge and Ice Beam off with impunity. Protect is just nice to have for stalling the Trick Rooms and the opposing Tailwinds. I put a Focus Sash on Greninja, seeing as it's incredibly frail, and its fast speed generally lets it get off another attack in the next turn before going down. The spread is standard for a pure offensive mon, and the Timid nature lets Greninja outspeed as much as possible (most notably Scarf Smeargle).

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Ancient Power
If there's one thing that Mega Venusaur and Greninja don't appreciate, it's Talonflame. I'm sure there are other things they don't like, but we'll just ignore those for now and say that Talonflame hates everything. So I go to my nearest Heatran supplier, and get myself a Scarf Heatran, because no one suspects Scarf Heatran...actually, I don't really remember why I chose Scarf Heatran, but it seems to work. Ugh, I'm rambling on too long...
The combination of Overheat and Heat Wave means that I have a move that can OHKO Aegislash and get past Wide Guard, while also having access to a strong spread move. Earth Power hits other Heatrans for super effective, and Ancient Power goes in the last moveslot, OHKOing Talonflame, and having a slight chance at OHKOing an uninvested Mega Charizard Y.

Latias @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Roost
- Tailwind
Latias seemed like a good partner with Heatran, as Latias resists types Heatran despises, and vice versa. Latias also conveniently filled my need for some sort of speed control, using Tailwind to get those Speed boosts if the Water/Grass pledge combo fails. Draco Meteor provides immediate damage output, and it still does good damage, even if it's from an uninvested Special Attack stat. Psychic mainly deals with Fighting types that threaten Heatran and Greninja. Roost gives Latias some nice longevity, and the Sitrus Berry gives Latias more room to get a Tailwind in before she goes down. The 36 Speed EVs are to outspeed Breloom, while the rest of the EVs give Latias good bulk.

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 148 Atk / 4 Def / 108 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn
You can't really see a team without Landorus-T these days, and for good reason. Landorus-T provides the offensive pressure that Hitmontop doesn't really have. Earthquake and Rock Slide are two of the best moves in the format, and no Lando-T would be complete without them (although you could always consider Stone Edge. Whatever floats your goat). Superpower hits Mega Kangaskhan for super effective damage. U-turn, while rarely used, gives Landorus some nice switch utility, bringing in one of the Pledge users. The given EV spread and Adamant nature does the following:

Random Calcs

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 156 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 78-94 (42.3 - 51%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 156 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 153-183 (83.1 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T in Sun: 76-90 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 76-91 (41.3 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 156 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 156-188 (84.7 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Malamar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut
- Protect
I wanted something that could deal with all of the Intimidates around, seeing as everyone and their mother tends to carry it. While I ran Bisharp on this team previously, Malamar has started to grow on me, for a couple of reasons. One of them is Superpower, which gives the all important Defense boosts, allowing Malamar to take hits, such as Talonflame's Brave Bird. Knock Off is just too good of a move, getting STAB and removing all of the items. Psycho Cut is a secondary STAB that hits Mega Venusaur. I did run Rock Slide in this moveslot previously, but I really never used it enough to warrant its place. Finally, Protect.
The EV spread is standard until I can think of specific threats I want to outspeed/live, but for now, it works. The Careful Nature complements the buffs that Superpower provides.

Replays

Replays:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-246135541
(this replay pretty much shows the Pledge mechanics quite well)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-246424131
(surprise swamp speed drop and Assault Vest Landorus-T pulling its weight)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-246429631
(a game I recorded while on massive tilt...I played this terribly, and got a win I didn't deserve. Just put this up because I'm sure you're tired of watching GOOD replays)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-246603804
(Malamar pulling through with the clutch survival)

Importable

Venusaur (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Grass Pledge
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

Greninja (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Pledge
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Protect

Heatran (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 12 Def / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power

Latias @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Roost
- Tailwind

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 148 Atk / 4 Def / 108 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

Malamar (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut
- Protect

Conclusion:
This team went through a lot of changes, from its humble days as a Sun Pledge team to what it is today. At the time of this post edit, the team is in the depths of the 1300s, so we'll see how exactly it'll go as I attempt to climb. This team is far from perfect, and Pledge is way out of my comfort zone, so any help is appreciated. Thanks for the read.​

 

[Steven Stone]

AYYY!!!! This remembers of my friend's Pledges team, back in 2014.
Now, let's get depth on the team:
Venusaur: Everything is OK on the boy. Now, haven't you thought of making a better EV spread for Venusaur to use both its bulk and offensive potential?
Greninja: There can't be anything wrong with this.
Heatran: cool choice to complete FGW, and a smart one too. Although replacing Flash Cannon with Heat Wave is an option too, as you kinda need a fire move that you can spam. Other choice could be replacing Overheat with Fire Blast/Flamethrower, but the lack of KO potential makes it quite difficult to choice.
Latias: I can see what you're doing. Now, i think making a more optimal EV spread might be needed. Make it take, for example, Gengar's Shadow Ball. I don't know, your choice. Now, i think with a metagame so physically oriented, Psyshock is the worst Psychic move you could have. Replacing it with Psychic might be a better idea.
Landorus-T: this man is amazing! Good EV spread, i think you can't change anything on it.
Bisharp: can i say anything about it?

Synergy:
At first glance, Conkeldurr could put some trouble for your team. That might or might not explain why you run Psyshock on Latias. Replacing Latias with a fairy type (idk... fairy type with tailwind... Togekiss?) might be a good idea, but getting rid of Latias could make your Sun Matchup worse. Psyshock on Latias allows you to hit Conkeldurr, but lacking Psychic will make it difficult for you to get through opposing Mega Venusaur's teams. Maybe then, you could run Extrasensory on Greninja, as you have Dark coverage on your team.
Bisharp makes your team synergy rather unstable, and the reason you brought him is barely justified (one of your Pokémon lose potential due to Intimidate). If i wanted to play around it, for your team even Malamar could become a better choice for it. I think for my experience Aegislash could be a better fit, as it checks AV Conkeldurr variants, deals with fairies, and provides Wide Guard support, something that Hitmontop most likely did in the past. Now, there's obviously a con for that: You'll be extremely specially oriented, and a specially oriented team loses to a lot of matchups: and i mean A LOT.

Team Magma Team Builder Synergy results:
http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?3m|658|485|380|625|645
(Wanted to give you an actual picture of it, but Smogon didn't let me do that)

All's OK, except for that fighting weakness.

Well, that's all i can do for now. Hope i helped!

 

[JETZero3]

AYYY!!!! This remembers of my friend's Pledges team, back in 2014.
Now, let's get depth on the team:
Venusaur: Everything is OK on the boy. Now, haven't you thought of making a better EV spread for Venusaur to use both its bulk and offensive potential?
Greninja: There can't be anything wrong with this.
Heatran: cool choice to complete FGW, and a smart one too. Although replacing Flash Cannon with Heat Wave is an option too, as you kinda need a fire move that you can spam. Other choice could be replacing Overheat with Fire Blast/Flamethrower, but the lack of KO potential makes it quite difficult to choice.
Latias: I can see what you're doing. Now, i think making a more optimal EV spread might be needed. Make it take, for example, Gengar's Shadow Ball. I don't know, your choice. Now, i think with a metagame so physically oriented, Psyshock is the worst Psychic move you could have. Replacing it with Psychic might be a better idea.
Landorus-T: this man is amazing! Good EV spread, i think you can't change anything on it.
Bisharp: can i say anything about it?

Synergy:
At first glance, Conkeldurr could put some trouble for your team. That might or might not explain why you run Psyshock on Latias. Replacing Latias with a fairy type (idk... fairy type with tailwind... Togekiss?) might be a good idea, but getting rid of Latias could make your Sun Matchup worse. Psyshock on Latias allows you to hit Conkeldurr, but lacking Psychic will make it difficult for you to get through opposing Mega Venusaur's teams. Maybe then, you could run Extrasensory on Greninja, as you have Dark coverage on your team.
Bisharp makes your team synergy rather unstable, and the reason you brought him is barely justified (one of your Pokémon lose potential due to Intimidate). If i wanted to play around it, for your team even Malamar could become a better choice for it. I think for my experience Aegislash could be a better fit, as it checks AV Conkeldurr variants, deals with fairies, and provides Wide Guard support, something that Hitmontop most likely did in the past. Now, there's obviously a con for that: You'll be extremely specially oriented, and a specially oriented team loses to a lot of matchups: and i mean A LOT.

Team Magma Team Builder Synergy results:
http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?3m|658|485|380|625|645
(Wanted to give you an actual picture of it, but Smogon didn't let me do that)

All's OK, except for that fighting weakness.

Well, that's all i can do for now. Hope i helped!

Hey Skarm, nice to see you with another rate.

When I was first making the team, I kinda just threw up some 252/252/4 spreads, besides Landorus-T, who came from my previous team. I'll definitely adjust the EV spreads. However, I'll leave it for now until I get a feel as to what threatens this team. Some quick calcs show that Latias can take a Double Edge from Adamant Mega Kang, and has a 11% chance to get 2HKOed by Gengar's Shadow Ball after Sitrus Berry. If I find a more optimal one, I'll update the team.

I like Extrasensory on Greninja, so I'm gonna run that. Heat Wave over Flash Cannon seems good, so I'll try that as well. I'm trying out Aegislash, though I'm not entirely sure I'm in love with it. We'll see. I'm also considering replacing Latias with Togekiss for the additional Follow Me support. Will update the thread when I finalize the changes. Thanks for your help!

edit: I will also say that this team can be extremely frustrating to use. The times that you surprise your opponents with Pledge moves can be satisfying though, so I guess I can forgive it.

 

[Steven Stone]

Hey Skarm, nice to see you with another rate.

When I was first making the team, I kinda just threw up some 252/252/4 spreads, besides Landorus-T, who came from my previous team. I'll definitely adjust the EV spreads. However, I'll leave it for now until I get a feel as to what threatens this team. Some quick calcs show that Latias can take a Double Edge from Adamant Mega Kang, and has a 11% chance to get 2HKOed by Gengar's Shadow Ball after Sitrus Berry. If I find a more optimal one, I'll update the team.

I like Extrasensory on Greninja, so I'm gonna run that. Heat Wave over Flash Cannon seems good, so I'll try that as well. I'm trying out Aegislash, though I'm not entirely sure I'm in love with it. We'll see. I'm also considering replacing Latias with Togekiss for the additional Follow Me support. Will update the thread when I finalize the changes. Thanks for your help!

edit: I will also say that this team can be extremely frustrating to use. The times that you surprise your opponents with Pledge moves can be satisfying though, so I guess I can forgive it.

If the team is frustrating to use imagine how much time took me to write those paragraphs :P