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SPOILERS! Poipole and Naganadel
- Thread starter Nexus
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Haze from Toxapex essentially lets this use Draco Meteor drawback-free as Haze resets even the -2 Sp.Atk. Toxapex in a way is setup fodder for this.
I mentioned Weavile because it can sort of revenge this. However, in the meta context, Weavile isnt that great so you cant think "oh, Weavile can Ice Shard this. I'll use Weavile" while in reality, using Weavile opens hole for Shift Gear Magearna and so many other things.
As the old Deoxys and the more recent Pheromosa have proven, fraility does NOT matter when you hit hard and are fast. Naganadel is bulkier than both of these and hits hard enough for its poor bulk to not be a problem.
Of course, i could be overselling this but it's still strong AF.
Actually, no, neither of those can revenge kill, because its beast boost will give it a speed boost, which is exactly why this mon will be extremely scary to face.
Beast Boost gives this Speed boost so scarfer outside of Greninja is of no use
The issue with that is you’re not killing anything else if you used Draco Meteor unless you were already at +2.
That is why you use draconium Z to get a kill. Besides, on volt turn it shouldnt be hard at all to set up a nasty plot. And even THEN a minus 2 draco from this mon could still pick off a weakened latios:
-2 252 SpA Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 192-228 (63.7 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 192-228 (63.7 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Really good points indeed. I guess we'll see how it turns out to be in practice.
I hope it doesn't end up like Gallade, when a while back was hyped as the new god of OU, just to ironically fell down to BL when it actually came out.
I doubt it will actually be so, since speed tier and typing is really nice, but only time will tell.
It's a very dangerous sweeper indeed, even though Draco drops its NP boosts, +2 Draconium assures you a kill even on 252 HP/ 4 SpDef Heatran after rocks.
One thing I'd like to note tho, I personally feel it's somewhat difficult to build around since of its hazard weakeness and its nigh zero defensive capabilites. Yeah resitances are nice for set-up, but I'll reconsiderate my previous point on it's ability to practically set up.
I've learnt that Pokémon like this in the hands of a good players doesn't need anything, just a turn to set up. And, while all of this is pure theorymon, for a Pokémon of these stats it shouldn't be difficult. Its switch ins are too predictable because they practically don't exist and ppl are talking about Heatran as if Heatran, by itself, could handle this threat eternally. This shit can learn U-turn, it can run Specs and fire nukes the same as Latios but with Beast Boost too. I think while fighting against the over-hyping some ppl are understimating this guy. This is a beast.
It has no gender, so I believe it can not.
No, it's in the undiscovered egg group so it cannot breed.
Naganadel one caught me completely by surprise, but it's probably the best new mon we have. The only things in OU that stop a NP set with Draconium Z are Chansey and Hetaran, and both of those still take a lot from +2 Devastating Drake, and aren't actually too hard to wear down. And obviously, the speed tier is great even by the current ultra-high standards of the OU tier. The only thing really holding it back is that its bulk is pretty bad (it's about on par with Weavile) and makes it a bit difficult to find NP opportunities, but the typing kinda remedies that by giving it key resists to Water, Electric and Fighting.
It's entirely possible that this may end up being banned, but the tier has become so fast that it may actually be too slow to be broken. Common offensive stuff like Tapu Koko, Greninja, Hawlucha in Electric terrain, Swampert in Rain, Mega Lopunny and a bunch of Scarfers can revenge kill it. I highly doubt it's going to be that much of a threat to offensive teams. Balance teams are going to have a hell of a bad time dealing with it though, and we may see a return of the slow, bulky Heatrans of gen 6, but this time with Earth Power. More than anything, it's giving me flashbacks of ORAS Greninja which is... not a great sign, especially since it will definitely be more threatening to defensive teams.
It's entirely possible that this may end up being banned, but the tier has become so fast that it may actually be too slow to be broken. Common offensive stuff like Tapu Koko, Greninja, Hawlucha in Electric terrain, Swampert in Rain, Mega Lopunny and a bunch of Scarfers can revenge kill it. I highly doubt it's going to be that much of a threat to offensive teams. Balance teams are going to have a hell of a bad time dealing with it though, and we may see a return of the slow, bulky Heatrans of gen 6, but this time with Earth Power. More than anything, it's giving me flashbacks of ORAS Greninja which is... not a great sign, especially since it will definitely be more threatening to defensive teams.
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To be fair, if it gets a kill is nigh impossible to revenge kill without priority. Thanks to beast boost, Naganadel gets a +1 speed, and no mon with >127 speed can actually beat it down from full.
I'm slowly shifting from "yeah it's really cool let's not overhype it tho" to "on paper it's really really busted, expecially if Lele is on the team".
oh my god I completely forgot about Beast Boost, please ignore what I said about it not being a problem for offense lol
For offense it actually may not be too bad, as between the lack of a boosting item and the need to set up to do big actual damage, it kinda gets offensively overwhelmed.
But then we kinda fall in MegaGross' case, where if in teambuilding you give Naganadiel room to breathe you team gets kinda swept.
EDIT: Scarf Gren is actually faster an can revenge kill a +1 Spe Naga if it runs special, it's base 121 not 127. My bad. But my previous points stands the same.
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Something to note - Timid raises Naganadel's Speed with Beast Boost if both SpA and Speed are maxed. 172 Speed EVs with a Timid nature hits 353 - which ties with its SpA with max EVs (thus Beast Boost raises SpA). 353 Speed ties with Thundurus-I. Modest with max Speed EVs hits 341.
Just figured this information would be useful for those wondering what Beast Boost would raise or what it could potentially raise.
Just figured this information would be useful for those wondering what Beast Boost would raise or what it could potentially raise.
I think a spa boosting set would be nice if you're running scarf
Thank u.
Realistically though, this thing doesn’t have a whole lot of defensive counterplay. AV Gear can comfortably take a +2 Fire Blast and OHKO (after rocks) in turn with Fleur. Chansey... Seismic Toss 3HKOs, admittedly, but +2 Devastrating Drake + +2 Draco actually kills. There’s a couple 50/50s there. But I think it breaks Chansey... eventually. It probably takes enough damage to comfortably get revenged by Weavile, though. Specially Defensive Tran can take a +2 Drake and retaliate with Earth Power, but I think it dies to the next Draco too.
It’s sad because I really want to use this in OU.
Realistically though, this thing doesn’t have a whole lot of defensive counterplay. AV Gear can comfortably take a +2 Fire Blast and OHKO (after rocks) in turn with Fleur. Chansey... Seismic Toss 3HKOs, admittedly, but +2 Devastrating Drake + +2 Draco actually kills. There’s a couple 50/50s there. But I think it breaks Chansey... eventually. It probably takes enough damage to comfortably get revenged by Weavile, though. Specially Defensive Tran can take a +2 Drake and retaliate with Earth Power, but I think it dies to the next Draco too.
It’s sad because I really want to use this in OU.
Still, AV T-Tar the goat can avoid the ko from +2 devastating drake into +2 Draco meteor
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