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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]
- Thread starter JockeMS
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Though this might not contribute much or anything, it should be noted that if you have the shards, Scraggy does get access to the three Ele-punches, Drain Punch, & Dual Chop via the Driftveil Tutor (neither of which Heracross can learn), so it does have something to hit the last four Gym Leaders for SE Damage with. But I doubt anyone would even bother wasting the time to get the necessary Red Shards to teach their Scraggy said moves...
Just some food for thought.
Just some food for thought.
10 red shards can help learning ONE Elemental Punch
And you get 10 Free Red Shards in Nimbasa City Pokemon Center (Only once). So there's 1 free Elemental Punch.
It's not like Bug/Fighting coverage is that bad anyway >.>" Only thing that could work is Ice Punch, but a water type with ice beam/blizzard on its movepool would probably be better as an anti-dragon mon...
The elemental punches aren't a huge help to most Pokemon unless their movepool is really poor. Scrafty is fine with Rock Slide for attacking fliers, or even Hi Jump Kick when it hits said fliers neutrally (if not, it can Payback Swoobat/Sigilyph for more damage than the boltbeam punches).
On Challenge Mode, Ice Punch hits 2 of Drayden's pokes for 4x effective damage, and Thunderpunch is a sure OHKO on Mantine.
Drain Punch is nice for the HP recovery, though.
On Challenge Mode, Ice Punch hits 2 of Drayden's pokes for 4x effective damage, and Thunderpunch is a sure OHKO on Mantine.
Drain Punch is nice for the HP recovery, though.
who would use elemental punches if neutral HJK is stronger than SE punches?
My bad, sorry...
While Hi Jump Kick is stronger, it is also far more risky to use, given 90% Accuracy, & half your health is wiped each time you fail to hit. Given I generally tend to have poor luck against the AI in-game, I know how frustrating it is to waste a turn or two using a Full Restore/Revive, just because Hi Jump Kick missed.
If you are the kind of player who does not want to take many risks, then maybe it is worth the trouble forking out shards for a far more reliable form of offence than Hi Jump Kick. Drain Punch comes to mind here, given the free recovery & the fact that Scrafty can take a hit or two from most foes, but that is just my opinion.
The bottom line is that Hi Jump Kick may be stronger, but its nasty side effect & not so great reliability can detract one enough to invest in punches.
Piloswine for Mid. Yeah, I know the previous thread treated Piloswine as a late-game nuke with sky-high attack and super-effective STAB against Corless and the Champion. I was just very dissapointed in its performance. It was very slow and didn't have as the bulk to take repeated hits (mine had a -def nature, FWIW). Being totally useless against Corless didn't help either. It either activates Magnezone's Sturdy and dies to Mirror Shot, or randomly switches into a steel STAB. All the Dragons were packing Flamethrower, and Ice Fang couldn't even KO Hydreigon.
Earthquake still hits like a tank, so I can't see it dropping below Mid, but I was very underwhelmed by it. If Sandile is mid, there's no way Piloswine should be ranked higher.
Earthquake still hits like a tank, so I can't see it dropping below Mid, but I was very underwhelmed by it. If Sandile is mid, there's no way Piloswine should be ranked higher.
where the heck did you see mid sandile
just where
piloswine is great filler material for a last teamslot and the investment is literally just 2 heart scales + a rare candy. i think mamoswine might need to be looked at again though :/
just where
piloswine is great filler material for a last teamslot and the investment is literally just 2 heart scales + a rare candy. i think mamoswine might need to be looked at again though :/
I personally don't 'see' anything great about Piloswine at all. Bad typing, bad movepool for the E4, super-late jointime. Metagross, on the other hand, has something to compensate with for its poor availability.
I'd rather 'invest' in a Wide Lens that you get as early as Castelia City. You'll only whiff once every 100 uses, excluding failing to hit Detect users (which are surprisingly plentiful iirc) and whatnot.
I'd rather 'invest' in a Wide Lens that you get as early as Castelia City. You'll only whiff once every 100 uses, excluding failing to hit Detect users (which are surprisingly plentiful iirc) and whatnot.
You can get N's Pokemon with just one DS and Wifi. Still possibly not enough to warrant tiering, but worth noting.
Name: Staryu/Starmie
Mid Tier (possibly low thanks to availability)
Availability: Undella Town. While the wild ones have a high level range, repel can restrict you to high levels.
Stats: Weak until you evolve it (you can catch it pre-evolved, though it will miss out on Power Gem), great after you do (can be done instantly at the point you catch it, though you may want to wait a few levels for Power Gem)
Typing: When you get it, Water/Psychic is neither good nor bad for the remaining gyms, but struggles with 3/4 of the Elite Four.
Movepool: VERY strong movepool, having access to Water (Surf), Psychic (Psychic), Rock (Power Gem), Ice (Blizzard), Electric (Thunder, Thunderbolt during Victory Road) and Bug (Signal Beam) with good power when you get it.
Major Battles: Useful against Drayden if it has Blizzard and useful against Marlon if it has Thunder (He may even set up Rain Dance for you). Victory Road Hugh is still Hugh, and everything but Bouffalnt is weak to something you can carry. Dennis's team is a toss up. Half of the Elite Four is a terrible match up, as is Catlin if you can't outspeed her and OHKO (everything carries Electric, Grass or Ghost) but Marshall is a clean victory. Iris can be swept with Blizzard, Surf and either Thunder(bolt) or Power Gem on Lapras
Additional Comments: You can do a LOT worse for a late game addition to your team. Wide movepool can easily cover gaps. Only held back by coming late.
A few thoughts on Challenge Mode:
While the uneeded pain in the assness to access makes it impossible to consider for default, it makes using the tier list actually worth bothering with, so a few notes here and there are worthwhile.
Challenge Mode's most noticeable effect is that it makes grinding nearly impossible, thanks to the large gap between trainer Pokemon and wild Pokemon and rarely will you have level appropriate rematch options.
Challenge Mode has a much faster leveling curve, which changes evolution/learn times.
Notable positive impacts
Growlithe has Flare Blitz and Outrage (and thus Evolution) come around Chargestone Cave, a bit after it loses steam, instead of end-game. Possibly a big enough change to warrent high tier there.
Vibrava evolves pretty much instantly, making it better for end-game use, but not enough to move it up a tier
Negative impacts are minimal:
Magnemite loses much of Sonicboom's lifespan, but not enough of a hit to leave top tier
Happiness evolves may evolve at a higher level. May be enough to drop a tier.
Name: Staryu/Starmie
Mid Tier (possibly low thanks to availability)
Availability: Undella Town. While the wild ones have a high level range, repel can restrict you to high levels.
Stats: Weak until you evolve it (you can catch it pre-evolved, though it will miss out on Power Gem), great after you do (can be done instantly at the point you catch it, though you may want to wait a few levels for Power Gem)
Typing: When you get it, Water/Psychic is neither good nor bad for the remaining gyms, but struggles with 3/4 of the Elite Four.
Movepool: VERY strong movepool, having access to Water (Surf), Psychic (Psychic), Rock (Power Gem), Ice (Blizzard), Electric (Thunder, Thunderbolt during Victory Road) and Bug (Signal Beam) with good power when you get it.
Major Battles: Useful against Drayden if it has Blizzard and useful against Marlon if it has Thunder (He may even set up Rain Dance for you). Victory Road Hugh is still Hugh, and everything but Bouffalnt is weak to something you can carry. Dennis's team is a toss up. Half of the Elite Four is a terrible match up, as is Catlin if you can't outspeed her and OHKO (everything carries Electric, Grass or Ghost) but Marshall is a clean victory. Iris can be swept with Blizzard, Surf and either Thunder(bolt) or Power Gem on Lapras
Additional Comments: You can do a LOT worse for a late game addition to your team. Wide movepool can easily cover gaps. Only held back by coming late.
A few thoughts on Challenge Mode:
While the uneeded pain in the assness to access makes it impossible to consider for default, it makes using the tier list actually worth bothering with, so a few notes here and there are worthwhile.
Challenge Mode's most noticeable effect is that it makes grinding nearly impossible, thanks to the large gap between trainer Pokemon and wild Pokemon and rarely will you have level appropriate rematch options.
Challenge Mode has a much faster leveling curve, which changes evolution/learn times.
Notable positive impacts
Growlithe has Flare Blitz and Outrage (and thus Evolution) come around Chargestone Cave, a bit after it loses steam, instead of end-game. Possibly a big enough change to warrent high tier there.
Vibrava evolves pretty much instantly, making it better for end-game use, but not enough to move it up a tier
Negative impacts are minimal:
Magnemite loses much of Sonicboom's lifespan, but not enough of a hit to leave top tier
Happiness evolves may evolve at a higher level. May be enough to drop a tier.
We should make a whole seperate thread for challenge mode tiering imo
is power gem on starmie even necessary? boltbeam has excellent neutral coverage and with stab moves i don't really see a spot for it. maybe it can afford to drop psychic but idk
Rock gives useless coverage : Fire (Surf), Fly (Thunder/Blizzard). On Bug & Ice Pokemon, a neutral Surf is more powerful (70*2 < 95*1,5) and the one who resists Surf are weak to Ice (Grass, Dragon) or weak to Electric (Water)
Thunder Surf Psychic Blizzard can be learnt almost ASAP when you capture Staryu
Wide Lens Thunder is acceptable filler imo
Even then, it always misses at the worst possible time. Like against Drayden's Haxorus... It's still really awesome coverage.
Why the hell would you use Thunder on Drayden's Haxorus? Or anything in his Gym, for that matter? You get the user above you* in Giant Chasm on your way to Opelucid...
*TM13 Ice Beam, in case anyone's slow on the uptake
you don't??? Giant Chasm isn't accessible until you gain access to Marlon, aka after beating Drayden. Heck, I'm pretty sure you can't get IB until finishing the Plasma Frigate.
You get Ice Beam after beating Marlon, once the plasma grunts are no longer blocking the way, you can surf in the chasm and find it
Wow my geography sucks.
I could've sworn I had Ice Beam for Drayden... silly brain. -_-
I could've sworn I had Ice Beam for Drayden... silly brain. -_-
must have been Blizzard
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