Pokemon Legends - Arceus - 28th Jan 2022 *Official Content Only*

[Chadlad50]

If Palkia and Dialga were ever to get new forms I wouldn't want it to be Primal Reversion. The entire concept and lore of that transformation was very specific to Kyogre/Groudon and it wouldn't make quite as much sense for the gen 4 legends

Honestly I agree. I don't even know why a Primal Dialga/Palkia would exist. Groudon and Kyogre are like ancient beasts, Palkia and Dialga are essentially deities. I don't see how they could ever be "Primal." People just want that Primal Dialga thing from Mystery Dungeon in the main series games, which I don't want.

I guess you could do something similar to Giratina Altered and Giratina Origin for new forms for Pialga and Dalkia

 

[Yung Dramps]

People just want that Primal Dialga thing from Mystery Dungeon in the main series games, which I don't want.

It's even funnier considering Primal Dialga was originally "Dark Dialga" in Japanese. The "Primal" localization was a reference not to its age but how it had become unhinged and animalistic due to the story's events. Insane how this flubbed translation was the unintentional catalyst for so much fan speculation and art

 

[superstrike66]

If you gonna give Dialga a primal form in the main series, it gotta have this as its theme.

Also give Palkia this theme while you're at it.

 

[Yung Dramps]

If you gonna give Dialga a primal form in the main series, it gotta have this as its theme.

Entirely replace the DPPt mascot legendary battle theme with this regardless of whether they get new forms or not if real

 

[Desdar300]

So what exactly is Centroleaks? Are they actually reliable and reputable or do they just throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks?

Centro is a Argentinian Pokemon fan site that started to gain traction after they started posted the leaked SM dex.
This for some people make them credible as they assumed they were the ones who dispelled the info and this is what started their rise.

Things really picked up for them in swsh were they kept posting a bunch of information that leakers were posting on 4chan and Reddit.
Nintendo essentially gave them a cease and desist and that made even more people trust them.

So essentially Central leaks are a bunch of vultures who post other people's information and claimed it as their own to give themselves a false sense of credibility for clout.

They get a lot of stuff wrong but they delete those things so that it won't damage their credibility and they know how easy it is to dupe the community as a whole.

However they've been in the news lately because it was discovered that all of their quote on quote LA "Leaks" were being taken from the infamous Chinese Riddler and they never had any inside information as they claimed.
After this was exposed they started throwing a bunch of darts and the form of riddles and making assertions before finally leaving.
There's a moral in there somewhere

 

[Pikachu315111]

I guess you could do something similar to Giratina Altered and Giratina Origin for new forms for Pialga and Dalkia

Would be neat if they really went off the wall and just make them into some kind of eldritch abominations which represent both their theme & Type. Like Palkia completely melts into this liquid serpent that bends itself into a mobius strip and Dialga becomes this gear clock mechanical being; call it their "Abstruse Forme". Ooh, and then give Arceus its beta placeholder as its "Alphomega Forme".

 

[R_N]

However they've been in the news lately because it was discovered that all of their quote on quote LA "Leaks" were being taken from the infamous Chinese Riddler and they never had any inside information as they claimed.
After this was exposed they started throwing a bunch of darts and the form of riddles and making assertions before finally leaving.
There's a moral in there somewhere

This last bit here, is this Centro doing the darts & riddles or is the Chinese Riddler doing the darts after being exposed because that's incredible funny

 

[Desdar300]

This last bit here, is this Centro doing the darts & riddles or is the Chinese Riddler doing the darts after being exposed because that's incredible funny

Centro.
He panicked and just showed a bunch of random pictures and said that they were his original riddles then it was confirmed that he had made all of this up according to the Chinese Riddler.
He just gave a random goodbye and he hasn't popped up since

 

[R_N]

Centro.
He panicked and just showed a bunch of random pictures and said that they were his original riddles then it was confirmed that he had made all of this up according to the Chinese Riddler.
He just gave a random goodbye and he hasn't popped up since

as the saying goes "lol, lmao"

 

[Chadlad50]

whoever this Centro dude is I hope they're on the money about new starter forms. Probably the most obvious guess possible but I'd love for a new Hisuian Typhlosion. I want to see how they can improve on an already cool design and hopefully make it not suck ass competitively

 

[Imperial Magala]

My guesses/hopes for a hypothetical Hisuian Typhlosion/Typhlosion counterpart are...

• Fire/Ground- The standard "what Typhlosion should have been" take. Would edge out Charizard as my favorite Fire starter and form a Ground trio with my other favorite starters, Torterra and Swampert. Puts more emphasis on its volcanic nature.
• Fire/Water- Steam-based just like Volcanion. Could be based on hot springs, geysers, or a steam engine.
• Fire/Steel- I'm thinking firearms, cannons, or blacksmithing. Throw in some molten metal that solidifies into blades for some extra fun too.

 

[Chadlad50]

My guesses/hopes for a hypothetical Hisuian Typhlosion/Typhlosion counterpart are...

• Fire/Ground- The standard "what Typhlosion should have been" take. Would edge out Charizard as my favorite Fire starter and form a Ground trio with my other favorite starters, Torterra and Swampert. Puts more emphasis on its volcanic nature.
• Fire/Water- Steam-based just like Volcanion. Could be based on hot springs, geysers, or a steam engine.
• Fire/Steel- I'm thinking firearms, cannons, or blacksmithing. Throw in some molten metal that solidifies into blades for some extra fun too.

I like the concept of focusing on the volcanic nature. That definitely seems like the most likely direction. I made a concept similar but it was Fire/Dark instead

Something like this could be cool with bigger emphasis on a Ground typing/theme

 

[R_N]

It will be a pure ice type, because they love turning things into ice type to fill pokedex type niches.

 

[Chadlad50]

It will be a pure ice type, because they love turning things into ice type to fill pokedex type niches.

As if Typhlosion needed to be worse...

I mean maybe a Fire/Ice type could be good but wearing Timbs would be mandatory

 

[Pikachu315111]

After having given it some thought, the only way I would accept Hisuian alt evolutions for Cyndaquil, Rowlet, and Oshawott (which, BTW, hasn't happened yet (Alt Regional Evolutions have so far only been for Regional Variants) so that would be a new precedent if it did) is if it was done via some artificial way. As I said, the original reason I've pushed back is because REGIONAL Variants means that Pokemon is from that region and has adapted to it; it's specifically said that the Cyndaquil, Rowlet, and Oshawott Starters are foreign Pokemon brought to Hisui by the Professor. It won't make sense for them to have a natural Regional Variant.

So, if they were to have one, I'm expecting maybe at some point player & Starter will be exposed to ~something~ (likely Arceus-related) and, while nothing happens at that moment, the Starter's evolution course has been changed. NOW, the question is when this ~something~ happens:

• Will it be early one before the Starter evolves so that starting from the middle stage they've been given special Regional Forms?
  
  
• Or, since they've been "hiding" the evos, would they first try to psyche us out (ha, yeah right, like a misdirection has stopped speculation before) by revealing the mid stages are the same but that's when they're exposed and have a different final stage.

I supposed there's a possibility they'll do a second psyche out, revealing all evolutions are the same... EXCEPT the final stages have a special Battle Bond trait to them and they have Battle Bond forms (notably all of the Starters are from Starter Groups who don't have a super mechanic like Mega (like Kanto & Hoenn), Gigantamax (Galar), or another Battle Bond (Kalos); giving the (generally) most popular members of the groups lacking a super mechanic (Johto, Unova, & Alola) something like Battle Bond could be GF's way of giving each Starter group something special even if not all Starters within that group have it, but that's another argument for another day).

As for WHAT they could become... I'm not even going to fathom a guess. If what I'm predicting is true, then honestly exposing them to "god energy" means they can become ANYTHING. Will they become more humanoid? Will they become more to resemble the symbolism why those three were chosen (representing weapons of that era: black powder/fire, swords, and archery)? Will they change to resemble mythical creatures taking on design aspects of Arceus/the Timespace dragons? I'm just gonna wait and see. I'm personally still curious if Wyrdeer and Basculegion is a new cross gen evolution or they're going to reveal H-Stantler and H-Basculin revealing their Regional Evolutions.

 

[AquaticPanic]

After having given it some thought, the only way I would accept Hisuian alt evolutions for Cyndaquil, Rowlet, and Oshawott (which, BTW, hasn't happened yet (Alt Regional Evolutions have so far only been for Regional Variants) so that would be a new precedent if it did)

Isn't Gallade essentially this? A split evo introduced in a later gen to its original line?

Also I think its pretty blatantly obvious that Wyrdeer, Kleavor and Basculegion are traditional crossgen evos at this point. They were announced specifically in a way that set them appart from the Regional Variants announced in the same teaser (With them being specifically announced as new evolutions while the regionals being annoumced as Pokémon that adapted to Hisui); from their typing, design and lore building directly to their pre-evolutions (Stantler being able to distort reality with ots horns --> Normal/Psychic evolution; Basculegion pretty clearly only gaining Ghost after evolving); to the fact the Warden that uses Wyrdeer having Johto Stantler stamps on their clothing. At this point thinking there are Hisuian prevos to these mons does not make sense to me, even if you want to play it safely. If they do have hisuian prevos it would have been blatantly misguideful advertisement which I doubt they'd do after they accidentally made people think Sirfetch'd was a crossgen.

There's also the fact that of the Hisuian forms we do know, one is LC and one evolves from an unchanged mon. So yeah I immensely doubt there are Hisuian Basculin/Scyther/Stantler.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Isn't Gallade essentially this? A split evo introduced in a later gen to its original line?

They haven't done cross gen evolutions since Gen IV EXCEPT for Sylveon but its a special case.

Also I think its pretty blatantly obvious that Wyrdeer, Kleavor and Basculegion are traditional crossgen evos at this point.

Yet they have not shown us a Stantler, Scyther, or Basculin yet. This is especially notable for Wyrdeer which is supposed to be leaders of Stantler herds and Basculegion which is formed of the souls of dead Basculin. You'd think whenever they showed up there were be the other, yet so far no sign of them.

If they do have hisuian prevos it would have been blatantly misguideful advertisement which I doubt they'd do after they accidentally made people think Sirfetch'd was a crossgen.

Who says it was a misguided attempt? I think it was done on purpose and done so successfully. GF could just be reading all these comments about people thinking they're bringing back regional variants and giggling their heads off. "I can't believe it. Even after what we did with Galarian Farfetch'd they STILL think we're doing normal Cross Gen Evos!".

I could be wrong, I'm betting not money, I'm just going off hunches like everyone else.

 

[Drk Pwnr]

After having given it some thought, the only way I would accept Hisuian alt evolutions for Cyndaquil, Rowlet, and Oshawott (which, BTW, hasn't happened yet (Alt Regional Evolutions have so far only been for Regional Variants) so that would be a new precedent if it did)

???

Alolan Raichu, Marowak, Exeggutor
Galarian Weezing and Mr. Mime

Edit a few minutes later with some more thoughts:
I'm pretty sure GameFreak's aversion to "new evolutions for old Pokemon (not including entirely alternate evolution lines e.g. Galarian Farfetch'd)" since Gen 5 is because that's when they added Eviolite, so now cross-gen evolutions are a backwards-compatibility break -- and we know how weird Gamefreak gets about backwards-compatibility for evolutions and evolution methods. (Which is why the only true cross-gen evolutions we've gotten since then are for Eevee, who... already had evolutions at that stage, so its Eviolite boost at the Eevee-stage wouldn't have changed.) This factor does not matter at all for the Legends starters, who already have full evolutionary lines, and tbh this is the only reason alt evolutions should be considered possible for them.

This is also why it's 100% possible there will not be a Hisuian Scyther: because Scyther already has an evolution in Scizor. Basculegion and Wyrdeer, though, would need a Hisuian Basculin and Stantler, under this line of thinking.

 

[Lucky-Luke]

???

Alolan Raichu, Marowak, Exeggutor
Galarian Weezing and Mr. Mime

Edit a few minutes later with some more thoughts:
I'm pretty sure GameFreak's aversion to "new evolutions for old Pokemon (not including entirely alternate evolution lines e.g. Galarian Farfetch'd)" since Gen 5 is because that's when they added Eviolite, so now cross-gen evolutions are a backwards-compatibility break -- and we know how weird Gamefreak gets about backwards-compatibility for evolutions and evolution methods. (Which is why the only true cross-gen evolutions we've gotten since then are for Eevee, who... already had evolutions at that stage, so its Eviolite boost at the Eevee-stage wouldn't have changed.) This factor does not matter at all for the Legends starters, who already have full evolutionary lines, and tbh this is the only reason alt evolutions should be considered possible for them.

This is also why it's 100% possible there will not be a Hisuian Scyther: because Scyther already has an evolution in Scizor. Basculegion and Wyrdeer, though, would need a Hisuian Basculin and Stantler, under this line of thinking.

I believe that Wyrdeer is the normal Stantler evolution. Just look at the guardian's pants.
Kleavor I think an alternate evolution of Scyther

But I'm not sure about Basculegion ...

 

[R_N]

I really truly 100% do not for a moment believe they care about eviolite. It's an item that rarely sees use in the formats they care about, and the way it works means it just checks for "does pokemon evolve? if yes, give boost".
Meltan doesn't get the boost and it actually evolves, because it doesnt have an evolution method programmed in the normal games!

Meanwhile we have far more egregious retconning with location based Pokemon now evolving by stones that have been available & Sylveon is just a happiness evolution (w/ fairy move). If they don't care that Eevee finally evolves by Leaf Stone anymore, I highly doubt they care about Eviolite.

If I had to guess why the other gens didnt have them:
-gen 5 = they wanted a generation that was entirely new Pokemon with no connections
-gen 6 = Likely saw Mega Evolutions as the general replacement, plus it lets them "evolve" third stage pokemon
-gen 7 = If I had to guess, Alolan forms. They wanted to do something different but still give a new spin on old Pokemon

Then gen 8 they decided to do something different again. Perhaps they even thought "some pokemon would differ so much, surely that would cause a different (meowth, yamask) or all new evolution?" type thing.

 

[Drk Pwnr]

and the way it works means it just checks for "does pokemon evolve? if yes, give boost".

Not quite. The way it works is, it looks at the Pokémon's internal data structure and checks what stage it's at. https://pastebin.com/mBKX1Byd We can see here, Meltan and Melmetal are both listed as stage 3 in the Sw/Sh data dumps (which it didn't have to be! They could have listed Meltan as "stage 2" and not given it any evolution methods anyway).

You're right that there were other circumstances that explain the lack of cross-gen evos for the last 11 years. Gen 5 was a reboot, gen 6 had megas... You're right that they finally relented on Leafeon and Glaceon's evolution methods being simplified... *after 11 years*.
But that's still all consistent with Gamefreak being absurdly, stupidly conservative with preserving the fact that "noo, we can't ever give Kanto Farfetch'd an evolution, because that will confuse the 5-year olds we're targeting, they'll wonder why they can't evolve it in the older games" or whatever.

 

[AquaticPanic]

But that's still all consistent with Gamefreak being absurdly, stupidly conservative with preserving the fact that "noo, we can't ever give Kanto Farfetch'd an evolution, because that will confuse the 5-year olds we're targeting, they'll wonder why they can't evolve it in the older games" or whatever.

I'd still say that's out of the window now that SwSw retconed Leafeon, Glaceon, Alolan Persian, Sylveon, Vikavolt, Probopass and Magnezone. Magneton specially has existed alongside Thunder Stone since its introduction so by this same logic it would confuse kids why they can't evolve it in older gens through Thunder Stone.

I doubt that if they are willing to change those evo methods, they wouldn't retcon eviolite. Specially when that deals with creating new evolutionary lines for old mons, it would be kind of silly if their reasoning of why they would restrict new evos to new forms was because of one item not wanting to be retconed in the same gen that retconed evolution methods (and retconed moves as well)

 

[Bakugames]

the reason we haven't gotten cross-gen evos and we had them replaced by regional evos is that cross-gen evos usually have no connection to the region they're in. Togekiss, electrivire, magmortar, etc have nothing to do with Sinnoh, they were added because the pokemon themselves sucked.

Regional evos have more of a reason to be introduced in the region they're in and why they weren't found before. The main issue is that they're harder to implement in other regions, so they're more complicated in the long run. Cross-evos are just retconned into the evolution line no biggie.

 

[Chadlad50]

Myself I prefer cross gen evos. They make no sense to be introduced later compared to regional evos, but at the very least they're more guaranteed to appear in more games...unless the game's name rhymes with Met's Hoe

Although in general I think a lot of the regional evolutions tend to have much better execution. The only Gen 4 evolutions I'd say I love are Togekiss and Tangrowth. The rest is either fine or just flat out worse than the original (Magmortar)

 

[AquaticPanic]

the reason we haven't gotten cross-gen evos and we had them replaced by regional evos is that cross-gen evos usually have no connection to the region they're in. Togekiss, electrivire, magmortar, etc have nothing to do with Sinnoh, they were added because the pokemon themselves sucked.

Regional evos have more of a reason to be introduced in the region they're in and why they weren't found before. The main issue is that they're harder to implement in other regions, so they're more complicated in the long run. Cross-evos are just retconned into the evolution line no biggie.

To be fair I think this is just to be said about the Pokémon in the regions in general over the generations. I definitely feel like in general the Sinnoh or Unova mons don't have much of a connection to their region (Like say, stuff like Chatot, Hippowdon, Rotom, Beartic, Ferrothorn, etc not really having much of a cultural or ecological relation to their region) as opposed to recent gens such as Alola's entire dex tying in to the local lore either by relating to a specific location or character in the region

I'd say they're trying to do the same with the Wardens here, they're a direct way of connecting these new mons to the region's culture and lore. (In general Legends seems to have similar directing choices to Alola, wonder if its the same team working on it)