Pretty much this entire thread is focused on Z-A Battle Club. Theorymon's post is no different
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Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Count Bleck
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Every move you make builds up the Mega meter, and since the entry hazards have insanely low cooldown, you basically just try to cycle between these two for a quick and efficient way to reach max Mega meter.
Meowstic @ Focus Sash or Quick Claw
Calm or Bold nature???
252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe (note: there might be a better EV spread, haven't done serious calcs for this yet!)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Reflect
- Light Screen
Meowstic is the total opposite of Roserade. This thing goes ALL in on support! Since it has dual screens, you can actually get away without Focus Sash... but with all the Megahorns flying around, I still prefer Sash currently! Regardless, Meowstic fits more on teams that have a back-up attacker in addition to a Mega Sweeper. It looks silly but it works shockingly well!
Carbink is a perfectly serviceable alternative; it can run a nearly identical moveset to Meowstic-M (only lacks Toxic Spikes), but gains tremendous bulk in exchange for a bit more weaknesses to Water, Ground, Grass, and especially Steel. Dual Screen Carbink shouldn't be oneshot by any non-Steel move though (most of which you can just run away from anyway), and its typing does not overlap with Mewtwo like Meowstic-M does.
If you are able to control the flow of the field, then stealth rocks and be incredibly viable in 6v6 as you can force your opponent to take chip damage repeatedly
That's insane! Now if I stack up some spikes and Toxic damage, will I get the point for KOing?Every move you make builds up the Mega meter, and since the entry hazards have insanely low cooldown, you basically just try to cycle between these two for a quick and efficient way to reach max Mega meter.
Carbink is a perfectly serviceable alternative; it can run a nearly identical moveset to Meowstic-M (only lacks Toxic Spikes), but gains tremendous bulk in exchange for a bit more weaknesses to Water, Ground, Grass, and especially Steel. Dual Screen Carbink shouldn't be oneshot by any non-Steel move though (most of which you can just run away from anyway), and its typing does not overlap with Mewtwo like Meowstic-M does.
How fun! I was making a 6v6 Ubers team, and I was really focusing on Hyper Offense. This may change how I want to run it, but I need to test it first, ofc. :)
The best luck I've had so far has been with Xerneas (ugh) and Mega Scizor. I'm still trying to find the right Pokémon to tie them all together. The top contenders have been LO Garchomp and (insert item here) non-Mega Chandelure.
I'm still hoping against logic that the restricted 'mons are removed from future seasons so that we can start developing a proper meta.
The tl:dr of the text below is that Xerneas is a problem that can be relied on for the entire match, which leaves your other 2 slots open for coverage.
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
Modest
252 Def/252 SpA/4 SpD
Moonblast, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Geomancy
Max defense has helped me live through a couple of relevant hits here and there. Otherwise, there's not much to say. It's the deer. It's the Wendigo. This is my opener.
Scizor @ Scizorite
Adamant
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
Lunge, Steel Wing, Knock Off, Swords Dance
Even before Mega evolving, SD-boosted + attacks deal pretty good damage to base/MMY Mewtwo and friends. Scizor is extremely fast after Mega evolving, which has definitely helped! It also has enough bulk to survive a big Earthquake or 2. Sadly, that's where the good news ends. Lunge and Knock Off are great for KOing Mewtwo and Ghosts (of course, Knock Off for Ghosts) and Steel Wing does a lot to Xerneas, but none of Scizor's available attacks have a huge presence outside of what they hit super effectively. Steel Wing also misses more than I'd like.
All the Fire around definitely makes Scizor cry.
If only we had Technician...
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Adamant
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
Dragon Rush, Earthquake, Poison Jab/Fire Fang, Swords Dance
I've noticed I often still need + to KO things with an SD Earthquake. Garchomp is a massive target, so the chances of getting it pulled off before I get sniped by Ice Beam or Moonblast are pretty low. Additionally, Garchomp has severe 4MSS. It really wants to have Poison Jab and at least 1 elemental Fang move. Dropping Dragon Rush seems reasonable in a meta with fewer dragons, but it's one of Garchomp's strongest and most spammable attacks. Besides, Garchomp is still everywhere.
I love Garchomp, but in Z-A PvP, I find that I either have it and don't want it or I don't have it and I want it.
Chandelure @ TBD (currently Wise Glasses because... reasons?)
Modest
248 HP/252 SpA/8 Def or SpD
Heat Wave, Shadow Ball, Solar Beam, Calm Mind
All of the Earthquakes running around make Chandelure a sad lamp, but OHKOing something with a boosted +Solar Beam, sniping Mewtwo with a boosted +Shadow Ball, and hitting all of the things with a boosted +Heat Wave does feel pretty good. The deer can't do much to it, but it can struggle to get enough damage through Geomancy. It hasn't been the most ideal counter.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm 100% certain that I have a skill issue.
Prior to Mewtwo joining the fray, I had some luck with Assault Vest 4 special attacks Yveltal. It was great at surviving and stealing KOs, but without boosting moves, it struggled to secure OHKOs even with +. I haven't tried it in the new meta.
I'm still hoping against logic that the restricted 'mons are removed from future seasons so that we can start developing a proper meta.
The tl:dr of the text below is that Xerneas is a problem that can be relied on for the entire match, which leaves your other 2 slots open for coverage.
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
Modest
252 Def/252 SpA/4 SpD
Moonblast, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Geomancy
Max defense has helped me live through a couple of relevant hits here and there. Otherwise, there's not much to say. It's the deer. It's the Wendigo. This is my opener.
Scizor @ Scizorite
Adamant
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
Lunge, Steel Wing, Knock Off, Swords Dance
Even before Mega evolving, SD-boosted + attacks deal pretty good damage to base/MMY Mewtwo and friends. Scizor is extremely fast after Mega evolving, which has definitely helped! It also has enough bulk to survive a big Earthquake or 2. Sadly, that's where the good news ends. Lunge and Knock Off are great for KOing Mewtwo and Ghosts (of course, Knock Off for Ghosts) and Steel Wing does a lot to Xerneas, but none of Scizor's available attacks have a huge presence outside of what they hit super effectively. Steel Wing also misses more than I'd like.
All the Fire around definitely makes Scizor cry.
If only we had Technician...
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Adamant
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
Dragon Rush, Earthquake, Poison Jab/Fire Fang, Swords Dance
I've noticed I often still need + to KO things with an SD Earthquake. Garchomp is a massive target, so the chances of getting it pulled off before I get sniped by Ice Beam or Moonblast are pretty low. Additionally, Garchomp has severe 4MSS. It really wants to have Poison Jab and at least 1 elemental Fang move. Dropping Dragon Rush seems reasonable in a meta with fewer dragons, but it's one of Garchomp's strongest and most spammable attacks. Besides, Garchomp is still everywhere.
I love Garchomp, but in Z-A PvP, I find that I either have it and don't want it or I don't have it and I want it.
Chandelure @ TBD (currently Wise Glasses because... reasons?)
Modest
248 HP/252 SpA/8 Def or SpD
Heat Wave, Shadow Ball, Solar Beam, Calm Mind
All of the Earthquakes running around make Chandelure a sad lamp, but OHKOing something with a boosted +Solar Beam, sniping Mewtwo with a boosted +Shadow Ball, and hitting all of the things with a boosted +Heat Wave does feel pretty good. The deer can't do much to it, but it can struggle to get enough damage through Geomancy. It hasn't been the most ideal counter.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm 100% certain that I have a skill issue.
Prior to Mewtwo joining the fray, I had some luck with Assault Vest 4 special attacks Yveltal. It was great at surviving and stealing KOs, but without boosting moves, it struggled to secure OHKOs even with +. I haven't tried it in the new meta.
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S3 has had some interesting developments: it started as what was essentially "season 2.5" due to Zygarde's introduction not really making a splash. Mewtwo joined the fray and immediately warped the format around it. And now, with the DLC coming out in a few days, there's gonna be new moves. Thus, the entire meta will be uppended anyways before S4 shows up, so might as well do a VR:
Nothing is ordered, and the line between what's niche / what's less niche starts getting blurred by B-, and realistically there's C mons that can be there. Idt it matters too much beyond "these are the ones I think you should respect more". C rank is anything that I have used / seen that is workable, and could be a bigger subrank - this game is just that good at making mostly everything viable. Observations:
Xerneas is still the king of the format, and while it has to compete with Mewtwo as both a Restricted Slot and as something that may lose to it, the deer has adapted to Mewtwo's presence with physical sets becoming more common than before, being able to Megahorn the genetic mutant out of the field. And the rarer Mixed GeoXern are still very potent, being able to do their usual shenanigans while employing anti-Mewtwo tech w/ Megahorn and their own increased Special bulk.
The star of the show for S3 is of course Mewtwo. The Megas are so good that they're top-tier calibre, with MMY being the best sniper in this format w/ its blistering speed and beautiful coverage, and MMX being a phenomenal bruiser that can best even its supposed checks (like Xern or Yveltal) while also possessing the ability to thwart screens. Regular Mewtwo can viably run LO and allow for other Mega options, though its slower speed makes it a less attractive option than its Mega brethren.
Chomper is weaker than before, having to contend with Mewtwo's presence by now slotting things like Crunch / Shadow Claw, and being a prime target for Ice Beam. Still does Chomp things.
Mega Gary is my preferred beatstick Mega (even over Mega Gross); matches up well against Mewtwo, and is tanky enough to be able to claim various kills in brawls before it goes down.
Yveltal is something I wouldn't call "worse" than it was before per se, but there's just more opportunity cost for the Restricted Slot now w/ Mewtwo's introduction, and its "jack-of-all-trades" status isn't as lucrative. It can potentially beat Mewtwo as well, though doesn't have the best matchup against either of the Megas so has to thread carefully.
I probably rate Zard X higher than most - I think well-played ones run away with games, and base Zard being absolutely horrendous is salvaged by its ability to dodge Ground moves and bait Thunderbolts.
I acknowledge Exca as a real mon only with Focus Sash; I rate it higher this season because it can choose to check Xern or Mewtwo depending on your team's needs, and Ground STAB is still obviously great.
Clef is Xern-lite, mostly fitting into comps where you want to use another Restricted slot (like Mewtwo). With its fast movement speed, offensive Clef can pick up kills with its beautiful coverage, with Ice Beam being a notable boon over the deer, and dual-screens Clef can still do its thing.
Mega Metagross is overrated, and the more time passes, the more I question its insane usage. That said, its stats and ability to reliably check Xern are what let it get away with what it gets away with.
The ABSOLUTION. I ran this all the way back in S2 since I like finding niches in mons, and I was very impressed with its ability to deliver kills. With the release of Mewtwo, it's shining this season, and Vengeance417 has already gushed about it above haha. It's not the easiest mon to use due to its frailty, and the fact that you cannot chase with it, but overcoming that ceiling is pretty rewarding!
Tyranitar is a real mon now that Mewtwo is here.
Zygarde-10 has fast movement speed and can launch Land's Wrath / Thousand Arrows off a decent Atk stat, and its short stature also allows it to dodge funny stuff at times. Zygarde-50 is way too slow, and Complete is clunky. The Mega is too exploitable in this format, and the funny "THING GO BOOM" move does not salvage it.
_
Anyways yea that's kinda it. The DLC is gonna heavily change the remainder of the S3 metagame with its new moves, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see random things like Gallade go to A+ rank or some shit lol
Nothing is ordered, and the line between what's niche / what's less niche starts getting blurred by B-, and realistically there's C mons that can be there. Idt it matters too much beyond "these are the ones I think you should respect more". C rank is anything that I have used / seen that is workable, and could be a bigger subrank - this game is just that good at making mostly everything viable. Observations:
Xerneas is still the king of the format, and while it has to compete with Mewtwo as both a Restricted Slot and as something that may lose to it, the deer has adapted to Mewtwo's presence with physical sets becoming more common than before, being able to Megahorn the genetic mutant out of the field. And the rarer Mixed GeoXern are still very potent, being able to do their usual shenanigans while employing anti-Mewtwo tech w/ Megahorn and their own increased Special bulk.
The star of the show for S3 is of course Mewtwo. The Megas are so good that they're top-tier calibre, with MMY being the best sniper in this format w/ its blistering speed and beautiful coverage, and MMX being a phenomenal bruiser that can best even its supposed checks (like Xern or Yveltal) while also possessing the ability to thwart screens. Regular Mewtwo can viably run LO and allow for other Mega options, though its slower speed makes it a less attractive option than its Mega brethren.
Chomper is weaker than before, having to contend with Mewtwo's presence by now slotting things like Crunch / Shadow Claw, and being a prime target for Ice Beam. Still does Chomp things.
Mega Gary is my preferred beatstick Mega (even over Mega Gross); matches up well against Mewtwo, and is tanky enough to be able to claim various kills in brawls before it goes down.
Yveltal is something I wouldn't call "worse" than it was before per se, but there's just more opportunity cost for the Restricted Slot now w/ Mewtwo's introduction, and its "jack-of-all-trades" status isn't as lucrative. It can potentially beat Mewtwo as well, though doesn't have the best matchup against either of the Megas so has to thread carefully.
I probably rate Zard X higher than most - I think well-played ones run away with games, and base Zard being absolutely horrendous is salvaged by its ability to dodge Ground moves and bait Thunderbolts.
I acknowledge Exca as a real mon only with Focus Sash; I rate it higher this season because it can choose to check Xern or Mewtwo depending on your team's needs, and Ground STAB is still obviously great.
Clef is Xern-lite, mostly fitting into comps where you want to use another Restricted slot (like Mewtwo). With its fast movement speed, offensive Clef can pick up kills with its beautiful coverage, with Ice Beam being a notable boon over the deer, and dual-screens Clef can still do its thing.
Mega Metagross is overrated, and the more time passes, the more I question its insane usage. That said, its stats and ability to reliably check Xern are what let it get away with what it gets away with.
The ABSOLUTION. I ran this all the way back in S2 since I like finding niches in mons, and I was very impressed with its ability to deliver kills. With the release of Mewtwo, it's shining this season, and Vengeance417 has already gushed about it above haha. It's not the easiest mon to use due to its frailty, and the fact that you cannot chase with it, but overcoming that ceiling is pretty rewarding!
Tyranitar is a real mon now that Mewtwo is here.
Zygarde-10 has fast movement speed and can launch Land's Wrath / Thousand Arrows off a decent Atk stat, and its short stature also allows it to dodge funny stuff at times. Zygarde-50 is way too slow, and Complete is clunky. The Mega is too exploitable in this format, and the funny "THING GO BOOM" move does not salvage it.
_
Anyways yea that's kinda it. The DLC is gonna heavily change the remainder of the S3 metagame with its new moves, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see random things like Gallade go to A+ rank or some shit lol
Figured I'd post my VR for the post Mewtwo release of S3 before the reckoning comes, so without further ado....
Not gonna talk about all of them, just some interesting developments
Its Xerneas alright
The release of mewtwo as well as overall meta changes have made chomp noticeably weaker such that I dont think it really hangs with Xern as the tippity top of the meta, still very good tho.
Both of these are incredibly big hitters that provide meta impact Zygarde couldnt have dreamed to have. MMY is the best sniper by fair with its ridiculous power and coverage, as well as psyshock for popping xern through Geo. MMX on the other hand is a crazy brawler that trades the nuts coverage of MMY for slightly worse coverage and better bulk. Overall Id say Y is a bit better but X is still a demon.
As Blitz said, the impact of Mewtwo was huge for darks. A lot of these guys were either really fringe or just straight up bad in Xern meta but now a lot of them have a nice place. They both check MMY and pair well with any Mewtwo as it scares Xern away pretty well.
Restrcited that isnt Xern is good, Xern-lite rejoices. Also has fun Mega Battery sets.
Speaking of Mega batteries, these are the main guys for it and they all have their own funny little place. Id say gren is the best one due to its natural high speed paired with decent coverage in 2 slots but the others have a solid place. Shoutouts to Theorymon for messing w these guys.
Generally the mewtwo meta has been pretty cool for it, making it much less fraudulent as chomp dominance wanes and its access to Megahorn became much more useful. Still kinda clunky but hes popping off more now.
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE MEGA METAGROSS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR MEGA METAGROSS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. FOR YOU. HATE. HATE
On the real, this shit sucks ass and I dont care about "oh but the usage." Yeah cool high usage means i get to see it float over to someone, fail to KO, and then see a third party get 2 points a good several hundred times. Flimsy Jack of all trades that eats your mega bar, stop using it please so i can put it in C or even UR it, Aggron is a fun mega steel go use him, it has a solid base form with STAB head smash.
Not gonna talk about all of them, just some interesting developments
Its Xerneas alright
The release of mewtwo as well as overall meta changes have made chomp noticeably weaker such that I dont think it really hangs with Xern as the tippity top of the meta, still very good tho.
Both of these are incredibly big hitters that provide meta impact Zygarde couldnt have dreamed to have. MMY is the best sniper by fair with its ridiculous power and coverage, as well as psyshock for popping xern through Geo. MMX on the other hand is a crazy brawler that trades the nuts coverage of MMY for slightly worse coverage and better bulk. Overall Id say Y is a bit better but X is still a demon.
As Blitz said, the impact of Mewtwo was huge for darks. A lot of these guys were either really fringe or just straight up bad in Xern meta but now a lot of them have a nice place. They both check MMY and pair well with any Mewtwo as it scares Xern away pretty well.
Restrcited that isnt Xern is good, Xern-lite rejoices. Also has fun Mega Battery sets.
Speaking of Mega batteries, these are the main guys for it and they all have their own funny little place. Id say gren is the best one due to its natural high speed paired with decent coverage in 2 slots but the others have a solid place. Shoutouts to Theorymon for messing w these guys.
Generally the mewtwo meta has been pretty cool for it, making it much less fraudulent as chomp dominance wanes and its access to Megahorn became much more useful. Still kinda clunky but hes popping off more now.
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE MEGA METAGROSS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR MEGA METAGROSS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. FOR YOU. HATE. HATE
On the real, this shit sucks ass and I dont care about "oh but the usage." Yeah cool high usage means i get to see it float over to someone, fail to KO, and then see a third party get 2 points a good several hundred times. Flimsy Jack of all trades that eats your mega bar, stop using it please so i can put it in C or even UR it, Aggron is a fun mega steel go use him, it has a solid base form with STAB head smash.
I think a lot of people would say that Garchomp / Xerneas / Chandelure was the premiere team of Season 2 and still is one of the most effective teams after Mewtwo. There are some slight differences though in popular item and moveset choices that might help you get more out of the team.
For Garchomp, consider Focus Sash as your item. That'll solve your issue of Chomp getting sniped by random Ice Beams before it can do anything. There was also a funny interaction in Season 2 where if you lead Sash Chomp and spawn next to a Xerneas player, then you could Swords Dance as they Geomancy, then get a quick kill with Earthquake + Poison Jab as they fail to kill you with Moonblast thanks to Sash. Though with Mewtwo existing, lead Chomp has mixed results now, as it's never winning the exchange vs a lead Mewtwo. But even in the back, Sash guarantees survivability when you do send it out.
For Xerneas, consider Life Orb, especially now with Mewtwo around. The rising mixed (Quiet) Xerneas set gets a guaranteed kill on 252 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo with Life Orb boosted Moonblast into Megahorn with 100 Atk investment. Another funny damage calc is that Life Orb guarantees a knock out on Gyarados from full HP always with Thunderbolt without a Geomancy boost.
And for Chandelure, consider Shuca Berry with Overheat over Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball comes out very slowly, and most players will be able to outrun it. The combination of Shuca + Overheat lets you survive an Earthquake or Drill Run from Mega Metagross or Mega Skarmory with ease and kill them back even if they're at full HP without a boost nor plus-move (while Heat Wave misses out on the KOs).
A Japanese community member compiled most of them:
Where Z is the fastest, C is around the main player’s speed, and F is the slowest.
Notably missing Kangaskhan (who is C), NFEs (notable ones: Pikachu, who I believe is B speed, and Doublade, who is definitely slow). This was made pre-Mewtwo, and I’m p sure the base/MMX are S, and MMY is X tier.
Not sure how you’d predict this beyond testing it, or looking at the mon’s walking speed in previous games (ala SV), and I’m not sure how accurate that would be. And while it’s absurdly funny that there’s some very fast mons with low base Speed (like Clef), and vice-versa (wtf Emolga), it’s one of those ZA quirks that has given a lot of life to slower mons here so… we take those.
Where Z is the fastest, C is around the main player’s speed, and F is the slowest.
Notably missing Kangaskhan (who is C), NFEs (notable ones: Pikachu, who I believe is B speed, and Doublade, who is definitely slow). This was made pre-Mewtwo, and I’m p sure the base/MMX are S, and MMY is X tier.
Not sure how you’d predict this beyond testing it, or looking at the mon’s walking speed in previous games (ala SV), and I’m not sure how accurate that would be. And while it’s absurdly funny that there’s some very fast mons with low base Speed (like Clef), and vice-versa (wtf Emolga), it’s one of those ZA quirks that has given a lot of life to slower mons here so… we take those.
https://discord.gg/Gsnz6PAXYp for 6v6 stuff
Made rank A with this:
Alternated Dragalge and Simipour, (honestly just used them because they were shinies lol).
Meganium-Mega @ Meganiumite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Giga Drain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Protect
Simipour @ Life Orb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Protect
Dragalge-Mega @ Dragalgite
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Giga Drain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Protect
Simipour @ Life Orb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Protect
Dragalge-Mega @ Dragalgite
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
Alternated Dragalge and Simipour, (honestly just used them because they were shinies lol).
DLC's dropping soon so it's prob worth posting this now. These aren't like...super definitive (and C rank could either be too big or too small depending on how you see it). There's a lot of ways to make just about anything work in this game, so even if something doesn't show up here, it doesn't always mean they're unviable!
Let's take a look at some more interesting developments lately as we near a week since Mewtwo's release.
...And we're starting with the elephant in the room, Xerneas. The deer god continues to assert dominance over all the other restricted Pokemon, this time by slotting in Megahorn. Physical and Mixed sets are more common than ever, while fully special Xerns seem to be slowly phasing away. I believe there is a clear divide between Xern and other Pokemon due to its unmatched versatility and adaptability, and it definitely appreciates the presence of random Dark-type used to keep Mewtwo in check.
Chomper is chomper. It's a little weaker now with all the Ice Beams flying around but it still farms the extremely Ground weak meta. It's generally a strong enough Pokemon to not need to use its Mega.
I'll be honest, MMY is probably A tier and not A+. Very powerful + has low cooldowns, but is pretty fragile and doesn't offer much defensive contribution onto a team. However, its impact is very apparent with all the Darks, Scizor, and Megahorn Exca/Xern popping up. MMY specifically is rated higher because it's very fast and makes great use of the perma-Plus mechanic of Megas thanks to its low cooldowns. Its pre-mega is also very competent and will still put in work in the event that you don't have the Mega Meter filled up.
Base Mewtwo @ Life Orb is also a strong choice if you have another Mega choice present.
Drill has generally been a fraud mon despite its immense usage, but Mewtwo's release brings back some legitimacy, now by teching in Megahorn. It compresses the role of a Ground-type and a Mewtwo check, and unlike Krookodile it has gapclosers through Megahorn AND Drill Run. Sash >>> Mega.
Very strong, but is extremely Mega reliant as physical base Mewtwo is terrible. You want to utilize battery strats to get this online ASAP. MMX is a great response to all the Darks that have popped up, but having a Fairy weakness still holds it back in a Xerneas metagame.
Gets a bad rep in here, but also gets way overused on ranked at times. Despite its exploitable weaknesses to Heat Wave and EQ, Mega Metagross is still quite strong thanks to its monster stats, wide coverage, good burst, and low cooldowns. Switching against Mega Meta can often be a daunting task and you better hope a Heat Wave mon comes by and saves you from it (...or the more realistic scenario, they pick up a double kill...). Mewtwo's release has put a thorn on this Pokemon's defensive contributions, but as we re-enter the Xern metagame, Metagross regains a more prominent role by being able to burst down the deer. Note that this mon is highly dependent on Mega Evolving to succeed.
I used Zygarde pretty extensively during the first half of Season 3, mainly AV Z-50 and eventually Sash Z-10. Zygarde's primary niche lies in its long range Ground-type moves in Thousand Arrows and Land's Wrath, punishing the Ground-weak metagame (Exca, Meta, Amph, Chand/Fox, etc) from a distance. Moving into the Mewtwo meta, I think the dog is the better forme here; its small size, high mobility, and dark coloring makes it a somewhat challenging Pokemon to spot in the midst of some busy fights. There, it can sneak up to a fight and clean up with its Ground signature moves. Additionally, it is shorter than the benches @ the Wild Zone map, which you can make use of to block Ice Beams and Moonblasts. Z50 has a rougher time as it sticks out and is a giant Ice Beam magnet, and Mewtwo isn't the easiest thing to trap and kill. Note that base 100 Attack without any boosts is often underwhelming, so you shouldn't really expect it to oneshot things. Thousand Waves is also funny but you will often get your kills stolen, so don't rely on it.
Let's take a look at some more interesting developments lately as we near a week since Mewtwo's release.
...And we're starting with the elephant in the room, Xerneas. The deer god continues to assert dominance over all the other restricted Pokemon, this time by slotting in Megahorn. Physical and Mixed sets are more common than ever, while fully special Xerns seem to be slowly phasing away. I believe there is a clear divide between Xern and other Pokemon due to its unmatched versatility and adaptability, and it definitely appreciates the presence of random Dark-type used to keep Mewtwo in check.
Chomper is chomper. It's a little weaker now with all the Ice Beams flying around but it still farms the extremely Ground weak meta. It's generally a strong enough Pokemon to not need to use its Mega.
I'll be honest, MMY is probably A tier and not A+. Very powerful + has low cooldowns, but is pretty fragile and doesn't offer much defensive contribution onto a team. However, its impact is very apparent with all the Darks, Scizor, and Megahorn Exca/Xern popping up. MMY specifically is rated higher because it's very fast and makes great use of the perma-Plus mechanic of Megas thanks to its low cooldowns. Its pre-mega is also very competent and will still put in work in the event that you don't have the Mega Meter filled up.
Base Mewtwo @ Life Orb is also a strong choice if you have another Mega choice present.
Drill has generally been a fraud mon despite its immense usage, but Mewtwo's release brings back some legitimacy, now by teching in Megahorn. It compresses the role of a Ground-type and a Mewtwo check, and unlike Krookodile it has gapclosers through Megahorn AND Drill Run. Sash >>> Mega.
Very strong, but is extremely Mega reliant as physical base Mewtwo is terrible. You want to utilize battery strats to get this online ASAP. MMX is a great response to all the Darks that have popped up, but having a Fairy weakness still holds it back in a Xerneas metagame.
Gets a bad rep in here, but also gets way overused on ranked at times. Despite its exploitable weaknesses to Heat Wave and EQ, Mega Metagross is still quite strong thanks to its monster stats, wide coverage, good burst, and low cooldowns. Switching against Mega Meta can often be a daunting task and you better hope a Heat Wave mon comes by and saves you from it (...or the more realistic scenario, they pick up a double kill...). Mewtwo's release has put a thorn on this Pokemon's defensive contributions, but as we re-enter the Xern metagame, Metagross regains a more prominent role by being able to burst down the deer. Note that this mon is highly dependent on Mega Evolving to succeed.
I used Zygarde pretty extensively during the first half of Season 3, mainly AV Z-50 and eventually Sash Z-10. Zygarde's primary niche lies in its long range Ground-type moves in Thousand Arrows and Land's Wrath, punishing the Ground-weak metagame (Exca, Meta, Amph, Chand/Fox, etc) from a distance. Moving into the Mewtwo meta, I think the dog is the better forme here; its small size, high mobility, and dark coloring makes it a somewhat challenging Pokemon to spot in the midst of some busy fights. There, it can sneak up to a fight and clean up with its Ground signature moves. Additionally, it is shorter than the benches @ the Wild Zone map, which you can make use of to block Ice Beams and Moonblasts. Z50 has a rougher time as it sticks out and is a giant Ice Beam magnet, and Mewtwo isn't the easiest thing to trap and kill. Note that base 100 Attack without any boosts is often underwhelming, so you shouldn't really expect it to oneshot things. Thousand Waves is also funny but you will often get your kills stolen, so don't rely on it.
Hi, I'm curious on what are everyone's thoughts on Metagross as a dual screens setter, instead of Ampharos, for Mega Mewtwo Y & Gyarados as attackers.
Metagross' moves:
Earthquake
Heavy Slam
Light Screen
Reflect
MM2Y:
Nasty Plot
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Psystrike
Gyarados:
Crunch
Waterfall
Earthquake
Dragon Rush
Metagross' moves:
Earthquake
Heavy Slam
Light Screen
Reflect
MM2Y:
Nasty Plot
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Psystrike
Gyarados:
Crunch
Waterfall
Earthquake
Dragon Rush
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Metagross is super lame without its Mega - it’s too slow and has some key weaknesses, though I guess you could do worse. Alternatives here are plenty, but there’s stuff like screens Delphox, or even battery mons like Meowstic.
Spread is good, but go Brave instead of Naughty - don’t betray Xerneas’ bulk. A slight reduction in cooldowns is fine, esp with Geo at its disposal.
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This is my actual team, I use Shadow Ball more than Aura Sphere, also I've tried Umbreon to set screens but Ampharos has got better stats; also I tried Excadrill to replace Hippowdon but will fall with a single Earthquake, or two attacks with Focus Sash; but in the end the hippo is bulkier and will last longer and kill more Mewtwo and Xerneas than Excadrill. I tried life orb with Mewtwo but in general the mega-Y is more powerful and last longer.
Okay, so I'm making my mandatory one-per-season post a bit late, because I hit rank A in the midst of Mewtwo release and have spent a long time just... Trying to find a Mewtwo team that suited me, which has been an incentive to keep playing after reaching rank A. I will therefore present that one today rather than the team I used to climb rank A or even my Xern team that I think is a bit stronger.
When Mewtwo came out, I tried it on a normal balance team but felt that was not cutting it because of Mewtwo's frailty and the lack of defensive utility it brought due to being a Psychic-type. Therefore, I told some friends I would try Mewtwo on screens. The idea was that Mega-Mewtwo Y would be charged up by Ampharos's Screens and early-game Thunderbolts to wreak havoc later in the game. I was left to find a last teammate though.
A thing I like to try to do when building teams is always to have a switch-in to Thunderbolts and an immunity to the ever-present Earthquakes. My sights settled on Mega-Skarmory since it was also a Mega that died quickly to get that sweet rinse and repeat playstyle characteristic of Screens. I used Protect on it because I was scared of the Thunderbolts but if trying this version, Aerial Ace is better to pick up kills you may have missed thanks to a low cast time. It is around that time I made Mewtwo a Life Orb set for its ability to hit almost as hard as Mega-Mewtwo Y off the bat and the extra defense which can come in handy under screens.
However, I found myself facing the rise of Fire-types such as Chandelure (and Delphox) and wanted a resistance to those. Therefore, I started to consider Pokémon like Gyarados, which I love but proved too weak because of its lack of setup and its glaring Thunderbolt weakness, then Mega-Charizard X, which seemed a lot more interesting for its similarities with Skarmory as a mon that sets up, hits hard and dies fast. I asked on the Smogon ZA Discord whether Skarm or Zard seemed better, got told Zard and rolled with it. It has not disappointed me!
It was playing this team that really taught me how to get a grip on Screens and on Mewtwo since I had never tried the former and the latter was a new Pokémon. So turns out Screens is based on timing and filling up the Mega Gauge to fire off strong Mega-boosted Plus Moves, dying fast in the process, and rinse and repeating with the occasional Mewtwo switch whenever the coverage and sniping are needed. But Mewtwo and Ampharos work quite counter-intuitively as their thing is moreso to stay afar and snipe stuff, with the screens acting moreso as an insurance, Mewtwo in particular being different to Xerneas in that it does not need to approach the enemy for its moves to hit. My main defensive piece, Charizard, also paradoxically has the goal to die as fast as it can, so Screens logic has just felt like a funny thing removed from your usual logic. It was pretty interesting to learn.
Ampharos @ Shuca Berry
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Charge
- Reflect
- Light Screen
Bread-and-butter Amphy. I afk shiny-hunted this mon while revising for my exams so that I may have it to use when I wanted to try screens, and the time came faster than I anticipated. Shuca Berry + Reflect allows us to eat up a surprising amount of Ground-type moves, which helps early against Garchomp leads, while Charge Thunderbolts are a really great tool into other Pokémon brawling around or for those lead Gyarados that I keep seeing somehow. You essentially use it as a battery (which feels fitting considering it is an Electric-type) for your Mega Gauge and your mons. Pretty interesting mon but don't lock onto it if you only have one switch left or it will be awkward when you get stuck in a field of Garchomp and Excadrill. Happened to me once, lesson learned from then on.
Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Probably the most replaceable team member (and by that I mean that Xerneas could fill this slot too), Mewtwo nonetheless has a big role to play in this team in that it proactively charges up the Mega Gauge by being as strong as Mega-Mewtwo Y off the bat and having ridiculous coverage suited to beat many other Pokémon. I went all in on sniping with Psyshock and Thunderbolt, which have been handy to strike unsuspecting foes. It felt counter-intuitive to choose Psyshock over Psystrike to me because I thought screens would make Mewtwo having to get closer to fire off its move easier, but I have ended up preferring the consistency and sniping potential of Psyshock over Psystrike's raw damage. Thunderbolt gets the jump on Gyarados, which is great considering my Mega-Charizard X has trouble hitting it. Calm Mind is setup and Ice Beam hits Dragons. I originally had Shadow Ball on that slot for the Mewtwo mirror, Ghost-weak Fires and Metagross, but aside from the first one, Charizard handles these really well and I was having a bit of trouble with Garchomp so slotting Ice Beam felt like a no-brainer. 36 Spe hits a cooldown reduction number if I've got everything right.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
Die fast Zard! Under Screens, this thing's role is to Mega-Evolve, set up, fire off strong moves that are difficult to evade (Dragon Rush is a gap closer and Flare Blitz and Earthquake really benefit from the extra Alpha range), and die fast not to use up too much Mega energy. This is also our only somewhat defensive piece here, being able to come in on Fire-type moves (which is why I have preferred it to Skarmory), Earthquakes and, at the snap of a finger, turn into an Electric resist in the face of many Thunderbolt snipers. By the way, you have to be wary of your typing when setting up a Swords Dance as sometimes you will like the Ground immunity, while in other situations, you will not want to get sniped so you'll want to Mega-Evolve before Swords Dancing. Afterwards, firing off attacks has never felt so easy, and since it is a strong melee mon, it dies REALLY FAST while wreaking havoc! Hates Garchomp's guts when Mega-Evolved though and seems to be a magnet for Stone Edge lobbies (I've literally seen that attack like thrice in my whole ZA ranking career before using Zard). I will sometimes switch it out at times when nobody is on the field to keep some precious Mega-Energy. All in all, it has felt pretty good for a mon I swore to friends I wouldn't use during the last season.
: A bit annoying because I can't seem to get Dragon Rush iframes right and it WILL K.O. you. This is why I have switched to Ice Beam on Mewtwo.
: Annoying because of how bulky it is. Mewtwo has to beware of Megahorn sets though it can dent it heavily with Psyshock, but my main answer to Xerneas is Charizard as it hits on defense, which Xern cannot boost up, and can use Mega invincibility frames to set up.
: A lot less annoying than Xerneas but still has to be respected. I LOVE when they try to mega in front of Charizard and I can hit them on their decreased defense though.
: Kind of in a weird place where it destroys screens because it has Brick Break but doesn't feel hard to answer. I did get shredded by a Stone Edge Mega-Mewtwo X once though so I'll put it there.
: Niche mon but has crept up for being somewhat of a counter for Mewtwo. I'll be honest it shreds me and I've never done well in a Ttar lobby for that reason.
Uhh, also let's tier list I guess because I am influenced very easily.
I have tried to rank anything and everything I have seen on ladder and in videos, but that makes a lot of mons so the order may not be that good. I have essentially tried my best to somewhat order them though, but like each time I see it I want to change the order of something so make of that what you will.
When Mewtwo came out, I tried it on a normal balance team but felt that was not cutting it because of Mewtwo's frailty and the lack of defensive utility it brought due to being a Psychic-type. Therefore, I told some friends I would try Mewtwo on screens. The idea was that Mega-Mewtwo Y would be charged up by Ampharos's Screens and early-game Thunderbolts to wreak havoc later in the game. I was left to find a last teammate though.
A thing I like to try to do when building teams is always to have a switch-in to Thunderbolts and an immunity to the ever-present Earthquakes. My sights settled on Mega-Skarmory since it was also a Mega that died quickly to get that sweet rinse and repeat playstyle characteristic of Screens. I used Protect on it because I was scared of the Thunderbolts but if trying this version, Aerial Ace is better to pick up kills you may have missed thanks to a low cast time. It is around that time I made Mewtwo a Life Orb set for its ability to hit almost as hard as Mega-Mewtwo Y off the bat and the extra defense which can come in handy under screens.
However, I found myself facing the rise of Fire-types such as Chandelure (and Delphox) and wanted a resistance to those. Therefore, I started to consider Pokémon like Gyarados, which I love but proved too weak because of its lack of setup and its glaring Thunderbolt weakness, then Mega-Charizard X, which seemed a lot more interesting for its similarities with Skarmory as a mon that sets up, hits hard and dies fast. I asked on the Smogon ZA Discord whether Skarm or Zard seemed better, got told Zard and rolled with it. It has not disappointed me!
It was playing this team that really taught me how to get a grip on Screens and on Mewtwo since I had never tried the former and the latter was a new Pokémon. So turns out Screens is based on timing and filling up the Mega Gauge to fire off strong Mega-boosted Plus Moves, dying fast in the process, and rinse and repeating with the occasional Mewtwo switch whenever the coverage and sniping are needed. But Mewtwo and Ampharos work quite counter-intuitively as their thing is moreso to stay afar and snipe stuff, with the screens acting moreso as an insurance, Mewtwo in particular being different to Xerneas in that it does not need to approach the enemy for its moves to hit. My main defensive piece, Charizard, also paradoxically has the goal to die as fast as it can, so Screens logic has just felt like a funny thing removed from your usual logic. It was pretty interesting to learn.
Ampharos @ Shuca Berry
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Charge
- Reflect
- Light Screen
Bread-and-butter Amphy. I afk shiny-hunted this mon while revising for my exams so that I may have it to use when I wanted to try screens, and the time came faster than I anticipated. Shuca Berry + Reflect allows us to eat up a surprising amount of Ground-type moves, which helps early against Garchomp leads, while Charge Thunderbolts are a really great tool into other Pokémon brawling around or for those lead Gyarados that I keep seeing somehow. You essentially use it as a battery (which feels fitting considering it is an Electric-type) for your Mega Gauge and your mons. Pretty interesting mon but don't lock onto it if you only have one switch left or it will be awkward when you get stuck in a field of Garchomp and Excadrill. Happened to me once, lesson learned from then on.
Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Probably the most replaceable team member (and by that I mean that Xerneas could fill this slot too), Mewtwo nonetheless has a big role to play in this team in that it proactively charges up the Mega Gauge by being as strong as Mega-Mewtwo Y off the bat and having ridiculous coverage suited to beat many other Pokémon. I went all in on sniping with Psyshock and Thunderbolt, which have been handy to strike unsuspecting foes. It felt counter-intuitive to choose Psyshock over Psystrike to me because I thought screens would make Mewtwo having to get closer to fire off its move easier, but I have ended up preferring the consistency and sniping potential of Psyshock over Psystrike's raw damage. Thunderbolt gets the jump on Gyarados, which is great considering my Mega-Charizard X has trouble hitting it. Calm Mind is setup and Ice Beam hits Dragons. I originally had Shadow Ball on that slot for the Mewtwo mirror, Ghost-weak Fires and Metagross, but aside from the first one, Charizard handles these really well and I was having a bit of trouble with Garchomp so slotting Ice Beam felt like a no-brainer. 36 Spe hits a cooldown reduction number if I've got everything right.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
Die fast Zard! Under Screens, this thing's role is to Mega-Evolve, set up, fire off strong moves that are difficult to evade (Dragon Rush is a gap closer and Flare Blitz and Earthquake really benefit from the extra Alpha range), and die fast not to use up too much Mega energy. This is also our only somewhat defensive piece here, being able to come in on Fire-type moves (which is why I have preferred it to Skarmory), Earthquakes and, at the snap of a finger, turn into an Electric resist in the face of many Thunderbolt snipers. By the way, you have to be wary of your typing when setting up a Swords Dance as sometimes you will like the Ground immunity, while in other situations, you will not want to get sniped so you'll want to Mega-Evolve before Swords Dancing. Afterwards, firing off attacks has never felt so easy, and since it is a strong melee mon, it dies REALLY FAST while wreaking havoc! Hates Garchomp's guts when Mega-Evolved though and seems to be a magnet for Stone Edge lobbies (I've literally seen that attack like thrice in my whole ZA ranking career before using Zard). I will sometimes switch it out at times when nobody is on the field to keep some precious Mega-Energy. All in all, it has felt pretty good for a mon I swore to friends I wouldn't use during the last season.
: A bit annoying because I can't seem to get Dragon Rush iframes right and it WILL K.O. you. This is why I have switched to Ice Beam on Mewtwo. : Annoying because of how bulky it is. Mewtwo has to beware of Megahorn sets though it can dent it heavily with Psyshock, but my main answer to Xerneas is Charizard as it hits on defense, which Xern cannot boost up, and can use Mega invincibility frames to set up. : A lot less annoying than Xerneas but still has to be respected. I LOVE when they try to mega in front of Charizard and I can hit them on their decreased defense though. : Kind of in a weird place where it destroys screens because it has Brick Break but doesn't feel hard to answer. I did get shredded by a Stone Edge Mega-Mewtwo X once though so I'll put it there. : Niche mon but has crept up for being somewhat of a counter for Mewtwo. I'll be honest it shreds me and I've never done well in a Ttar lobby for that reason.Uhh, also let's tier list I guess because I am influenced very easily.
I have tried to rank anything and everything I have seen on ladder and in videos, but that makes a lot of mons so the order may not be that good. I have essentially tried my best to somewhat order them though, but like each time I see it I want to change the order of something so make of that what you will.
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