Pokemon Minus

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
You mentioned Rayquaza needing an Orb to Primal reverse, therefore that would be a complete nerf to the already existing Mega, and that's not the point of this meta.
If we wanted to keep Mega-Rayquaza in its current state (even without minus buffs) in this metagame we'd probably have to reslate everything else to make them more broken than they already are. There's a very good reason as to why it's banned from Ubers; it's a 780 BST mon that doesn't need to give up its item slot to mega-evolve and obsoletes all other megas by doing so. This in conjunction with its 105/100/100 bulk AND Delta Stream basically turned the game into a "who has m-ray the longest" type of game. The fact that the required move is essentially the best STAB a Flying type can ask for (Suck it Brave Bird) doesn't help either.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
If we wanted to keep Mega-Rayquaza in its current state (even without minus buffs) in this metagame we'd probably have to reslate everything else to make them more broken than they already are. There's a very good reason as to why it's banned from Ubers; it's a 780 BST mon that doesn't need to give up its item slot to mega-evolve and obsoletes all other megas by doing so. This in conjunction with its 105/100/100 bulk AND Delta Stream basically turned the game into a "who has m-ray the longest" type of game. The fact that the required move is essentially the best STAB a Flying type can ask for (Suck it Brave Bird) doesn't help either.
Do you really think so? We can't keep it even without any buffs? Hm...
 
If we wanted to keep Mega-Rayquaza in its current state (even without minus buffs) in this metagame we'd probably have to reslate everything else to make them more broken than they already are. There's a very good reason as to why it's banned from Ubers; it's a 780 BST mon that doesn't need to give up its item slot to mega-evolve and obsoletes all other megas by doing so. This in conjunction with its 105/100/100 bulk AND Delta Stream basically turned the game into a "who has m-ray the longest" type of game. The fact that the required move is essentially the best STAB a Flying type can ask for (Suck it Brave Bird) doesn't help either.
Actually, it's only slightly better than the current Rayquaza realistically. Minus Rayquaza beats standard Mega Rayquaza 1v1 easily, thanks to its 170 base power STAB coupled with the same speed tier and only 20 less in both offences. Now admittedly, if you put Mega Rayquaza's stat boosts (+30 Atk, +10 Def, +30 Sp. Atk, +10 Sp. Def, +20 Speed) on Minus Rayquaza without restrictions, it is indeed very, very powerful. But if it has to have Dragon Ascent, it has 3MSS as it's never actually going to use Dragon Ascent since it is objectively far inferior to Azure Strike.

As for current things, Choice Scarf Blitzing Ideal Zekrom is a check to Minus Mega Rayquaza (that is, Minus Rayquaza with 105/190/100/190/100/135 stats and Delta Stream), OHKOing with either Dragon Claw or Outrage. My Excadrill submission, when Scarfed, can check it with the help of Stealth Rock. Physically-defensive Dialga is a check as well. Oh, and these are all assuming a Banded Jolly Minus Mega Rayquaza. Deoxys-Attack beats it 1v1 by living Extreme Speed with Sash and smacking it in the face with Adaptability Psycho Boost. Physically-defensive Sylveon checks it, just barely living an Azure Strike and OHKOing back with Fairy Aura Moonblast. If Stealth Rock is up, Magic Guard full-phys def Sylveon can check it with Life Orb Moonblast, otherwise, it has to rely on a shaky ~40% chance to OHKO with Shooting Star (and Shooting Star doesn't have perfect Acc either). Honestly, Mega Rayquaza might not be too impossible for this meta to deal with if it weren't for Azure Strike, but at the same time Azure Strike forces it to waste a moveslot on Dragon Ascent.

At the same time, though, I've yet to see anything that can truly counter Mega Rayquaza. To do so, a Pokémon would have to be Rock/Steel, Rock/Fairy, Electric/Steel, Ice/Steel, Ice/Rock, or Electric/Fairy, and have Intrinsic Levitate, and it would also have to have very high defensive stats. Of these typings, Rock/Steel is the most advantageous against Rayquaza, granting a resistance to Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor/Outrage, a 4x resistance to Extreme Speed, a 4x resistance to Azure Strike/Dragon Ascent, and an immunity to Earthquake/Earth Power through Intrinsic Levitate.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
Actually, it's only slightly better than the current Rayquaza realistically. Minus Rayquaza beats standard Mega Rayquaza 1v1 easily, thanks to its 170 base power STAB coupled with the same speed tier and only 20 less in both offences. Now admittedly, if you put Mega Rayquaza's stat boosts (+30 Atk, +10 Def, +30 Sp. Atk, +10 Sp. Def, +20 Speed) on Minus Rayquaza without restrictions, it is indeed very, very powerful. But if it has to have Dragon Ascent, it has 3MSS as it's never actually going to use Dragon Ascent since it is objectively far inferior to Azure Strike.

As for current things, Choice Scarf Blitzing Ideal Zekrom is a check to Minus Mega Rayquaza (that is, Minus Rayquaza with 105/190/100/190/100/135 stats and Delta Stream), OHKOing with either Dragon Claw or Outrage. My Excadrill submission, when Scarfed, can check it with the help of Stealth Rock. Physically-defensive Dialga is a check as well. Oh, and these are all assuming a Banded Jolly Minus Mega Rayquaza. Deoxys-Attack beats it 1v1 by living Extreme Speed with Sash and smacking it in the face with Adaptability Psycho Boost. Physically-defensive Sylveon checks it, just barely living an Azure Strike and OHKOing back with Fairy Aura Moonblast. If Stealth Rock is up, Magic Guard full-phys def Sylveon can check it with Life Orb Moonblast, otherwise, it has to rely on a shaky ~40% chance to OHKO with Shooting Star (and Shooting Star doesn't have perfect Acc either). Honestly, Mega Rayquaza might not be too impossible for this meta to deal with if it weren't for Azure Strike, but at the same time Azure Strike forces it to waste a moveslot on Dragon Ascent.
One would only use Azure Strike for a late-game sweeper set, honestly. Maybe a hyper-offensive set, but that would be inferior to the DD set. Rayquaza prefers coverage instead of more power, since it... already has more than enough power. It already has many moves to choose between DD, SD, Dragon Ascent, ExtremeSpeed,V Create, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor and possibly Outrage. Azure Strike is a way to make normal Rayquaza not get completely outclassed by MegaQuaza, and probably nothing more.
Oh, and Minus Mega Rayquaza would need to hold a Mega Stone. You listed some checks, but after one DD, they all get wrecked by Life Orb MegaQuaza. You'd either have to sacrifice one Pokemon and revenge kill it or switch into it, letting it set up and destroy all checks. After one DD: Zekrom gets outsped and 252 HP/252+ Def dies to Dragon Claw. Your Excadrill gets outsped (not even considering Sand Rush because Delta Stream), and 252 HP/252+ Def dies to V-Create.
Sylveon (and Minus Arceus Fairy, you forgot about it) can indeed live against +1 Azure Strike or V-Create or Dragon Ascent and OHKO it back, but I think that's overcentralizing. I guess Sash Deoxys is a check, but it's so cheap, lol.

At the same time, though, I've yet to see anything that can truly counter Mega Rayquaza. To do so, a Pokémon would have to be Rock/Steel, Rock/Fairy, Electric/Steel, Ice/Steel, Ice/Rock, or Electric/Fairy, and have Intrinsic Levitate, and it would also have to have very high defensive stats. Of these typings, Rock/Steel is the most advantageous against Rayquaza, granting a resistance to Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor/Outrage, a 4x resistance to Extreme Speed, a 4x resistance to Azure Strike/Dragon Ascent, and an immunity to Earthquake/Earth Power through Intrinsic Levitate.
Rock/Steel, Rock/Fairy and Electric/Fairy can take both Earthquake and V-Create, so they're viable. Ice/Rock can do too, but it's such a bad typing overall, that'd be overcentralizing. Electric/Steel and Ice/Steel are destroyed by V-Create.
 
Let's not to mention that Earthquake is Ground-Type attack so Steel/Rock will not easily survive unless if it have Sturdy at full Hp.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
Let's not to mention that Earthquake is Ground-Type attack so Steel/Rock will not easily survive unless if it have Sturdy at full Hp.
He mentioned Steel/Rock with intrinsic Levitate, but seeing as Aggron is a cave-dweller and one of the heaviest mons, and Bastidon is a heavy castle-wall-faced mon, the only one that could fit is Probopass.
 
One would only use Azure Strike for a late-game sweeper set, honestly. Maybe a hyper-offensive set, but that would be inferior to the DD set. Rayquaza prefers coverage instead of more power, since it... already has more than enough power. It already has many moves to choose between DD, SD, Dragon Ascent, ExtremeSpeed,V Create, Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor and possibly Outrage. Azure Strike is a way to make normal Rayquaza not get completely outclassed by MegaQuaza, and probably nothing more.
Oh, and Minus Mega Rayquaza would need to hold a Mega Stone. You listed some checks, but after one DD, they all get wrecked by Life Orb MegaQuaza. You'd either have to sacrifice one Pokemon and revenge kill it or switch into it, letting it set up and destroy all checks. After one DD: Zekrom gets outsped and 252 HP/252+ Def dies to Dragon Claw. Your Excadrill gets outsped (not even considering Sand Rush because Delta Stream), and 252 HP/252+ Def dies to V-Create.
Sylveon (and Minus Arceus Fairy, you forgot about it) can indeed live against +1 Azure Strike or V-Create or Dragon Ascent and OHKO it back, but I think that's overcentralizing. I guess Sash Deoxys is a check, but it's so cheap, lol.

Rock/Steel, Rock/Fairy and Electric/Fairy can take both Earthquake and V-Create, so they're viable. Ice/Rock can do too, but it's such a bad typing overall, that'd be overcentralizing. Electric/Steel and Ice/Steel are destroyed by V-Create.
Your comment about Ice/Rock is invalid as this is Pokémon Minus, where we buff bad things to be awesome. And yes, that's going to have to include Aurorus. Even though in this meta, Aurorus already has a few decent resists:

Minus Ice/Rock weaknesses/resistances:
4x: Fighting, Steel
2x: Grass, Ground
1/2: Flying, Ice, Normal, Poison, Dragon

Ice now resists Water, removing the Water weakness. Rock now resists Rock, removing the Rock weakness. Ice now also resists Dragon, which is pretty neat too, giving it a highly-useful resistance to many top-tier threats. Now admittedly, 5 resists with 4 weaknesses, 2 of which are 4x SE, is still really bad.
 
When people start voting. Last time I checked (Wednesday) there were no votes, but I'll check again today.
Oh, sorry! I PM'd my vote to Ranger Mike before. My guess is that's what happened to everyone else too. I didn't realize that "we should start sending votes to you" meant "votes sent to Ranger Mike before this announcement won't count".
 
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Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
Back from the dead that is finals! Here are the results of the voting period!

Aegislash: FlameUser64
Aegislash:
Ghost/Steel type
Stance Change
Ability change:
Stance Change: Changes to Shield forme upon using any Status move. Changes to Blade forme upon using any Physical or Special move.
Base stats:
Shield forme: 70/50/160/50/160/60, BST: 550
Blade forme: 70/160/50/160/50/60, BST: 550
Moveset additions: +Psycho Cut, +Shimmer Strike, +Iron Edge, +Ironforge, +Unpossess, +Riposte, +Glint of War, +Nasty Plot, +Mimic, +Headbutt
Move changes:
Flash Cannon: 80 base power -> 90 base power; 10% chance to lower Sp. Def by one stage -> 20% chance to lower Sp. Def by one stage
Shadow Ball: 80 base power -> 90 base power
Night Slash: 70 base power -> 90 base power
Shadow Claw: 70 base power -> 90 base power
Psycho Cut: 70 base power -> 90 base power; 32 PP -> 24 PP
Slash: 70 base power -> 90 base power; 32 PP -> 24 PP

New moves:
Shimmer Strike:
Type: Fairy
Category: Physical
Power: 90
Accuracy: 100%
Target: Adjacent
PP: 24
In-game description: The user strikes with a blade of righteous power. Critical hits land more easily.
Effect: This move has +1 critical stage.
Makes contact.

Iron Edge:
Type: Steel
Category: Physical
Power: 90
Accuracy: 100%
Target: Adjacent
PP: 24
In-game description: The user cuts with a blade of steel. Critical hits land more easily.
Effect: This move has +1 critical stage.
Makes contact.

Ironforge:
Type: Steel
Category: Status
Power: —
Accuracy: —
Target: Self
PP: 16
In-game description: The user welds its own body at extreme temperatures to repair itself. The user's HP is restored by up to half its max HP.
Effect: User recovers 50% max HP. User's Steel typing changes to Fire until end of turn. If the user is not a Steel-type and has only a single type, they gain Fire as a secondary type until end of turn. Pokémon who are dual-typed without Steel and somehow use this move (through Mimic, Snatch, Copycat, etc.) do not have their type affected in any way.
Affected by Snatch.

Unpossess:
Type: Ghost
Category: Status
Power: —
Accuracy: —
Target: Self
PP: 16
In-game description: The user's spirit temporarily exits its material shell to rest and recover stamina, then resynchronizes with its body. The user's HP is restored by up to half its max HP.
Effect: User recovers 50% max HP. User's Ghost-typing is removed until end of turn, and if the user had Intrinsic Levitate, it is removed until end of turn. If the user is a pure Ghost-type, they become Normal-type until end of turn.
Affected by Snatch.

Riposte:
Type: Normal
Category: Status
Power: —
Accuracy: —
Target: Adjacent
PP: 16
In-game description: The user blocks the target from using moves that always hit first, such as Quick Attack, and turns them back on the foe.
Effect: If the targeted foe attempts to use a move with a positive priority modifier that has a target other than "User" or "Ally" (including moves given priority by Gale Wings, Prankster, etc.), they target themselves with it instead. Moves that are reversed by Riposte bypass Accuracy checks, and Physical/Special moves have their power multiplied by 1.5x when reversed. +3 priority.
Example of the message displayed in-game:
Aegislash used Riposte!
Aegislash waits for its target to make a move!
The opposing Talonflame used Brave Bird!
Aegislash parried the move!
The opposing Talonflame lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Talonflame fainted!
Makes contact if the foe triggers it with a contact move. Does not block Prankster Heal Pulse or Prankster Teeter Dance. Reverts Aegislash to Blade forme if it is successful.

Glint of War:
Type: Fighting
Category: Special
Power: 90
Accuracy: 100%
Target: Adjacent
PP: 16
In-game description: The user releases a shining wave of battle energy to attack. It may also reduce the target's Special Defense stat.
Effect: 20% chance to lower the foe's Special Defense by 1 stage.

Reasoning:
Only slight boosts to stats because honestly Aegislash's stats are already nuts. Stance Change is modified so you no longer have to run King's Shield to use Shield forme, though doing so is probably recommended since Aegislash is slow as sin. Mostly what Aegislash gets is movepool buffs. Aegislash now gets Psycho Cut, not that it really has a use for it. Also, Psycho Cut, Night Slash, Slash, and Shadow Claw are all buffed to the same power as Leaf Blade, while Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball are buffed to match Psychic. It has better physical STAB in Iron Edge and the newly-buffed Shadow Claw, while on the Special side it now gets perfect Fighting/Ghost coverage and Nasty Plot for boosting. Aegislash also now has Fairy coverage on the physical side, just to make things more interesting and make Psycho Cut that much more redundant.

Of particular note is his new self-healing move, Ironforge. It's essentially a Roost equivalent for Steel-types, except instead of removing their Steel typing the heat from the forge changes them to Fire-type.

Also, Aegislash would like you to know that it is the only one allowed to have priority around here! With Riposte at its disposal, Aegislash can punish any attempted priority move hard, hitting the foe harder than they would have hit him!

Not giving Aegislash Secret Sword for reasons that will come up much later.

Mimic is just there because everything that learns standard TMs can be taught Mimic by the Mimic Girl in Kanto. Headbutt is there because most Pokémon can be taught Headbutt by that tutor in Johto.

Aegislash gets Intrinsic Levitate because it is always shown to float. So now it only has 3 weaknesses instead of 4, and it gains another immunity.

Bronzong: the someone
Bronzong
Steel/Psychic (Intrinsic Levitate)
97 | 94 | 136 | 94 | 136 | 33 (590 BST, +30 HP, +5 Atk, +20 Def, +15 SpAtk, +20 SpDef)
Drizzle | Insulation Alloy (Immunity and can't use Fire and Electric type attacks. Immunity to all forms of Burn and Paralysis.) | Heavy Metal (Boosts Defense by 1.5x, but decreases Speed by 0.75x.)
+Metal Burst, +Rapid Spin, +Spikes, +Surf, +Waterfall, +Hyperspace Hole, +Wish, +Thunder Boom (See zerobreaker000's Thundurus), +Relic Song,+Will-o-Wisp*
(*Incompatible with Heavy Metal).

Bronzong's new/changed abilities can make it an unpredictable Pokemon. It may be a Drizzle Wish support set, or an Insulation Alloy tank set, or a Heavy Metal Trick Room set, or a Drizzle hazard set-upper, etc. Its abilities don't outright make the other ones useless.

Metal Burst, Rapid Spin and Spikes are feasible moves for a metal lump like Bronzong. Surf and Waterfall are based on its relation to rain. Hyperspace Hole because Bronzong is said to bring rain by opening portals from another world. Wish because people wished for Bronzong to bring rain and make crops grow. Those sound moves because Bronzong is a bell, an ancient bell (Relic Song) that brings rain (Thunder Boom). Will-o-Wisp because... it could probably summon "sinister, bluish white flames" from its portals or something (it's good competitively :p).

Excadrill: cooldude_dude
Excadrill

Steel/Ground
Sand Rush/Tough Claws/Mold Breaker
115/150/100/35/95/118 (613 BST)
+Knock Off, +Thousand Arrows, +Belly Drum, +Superpower, +Stone Edge, +Spikes, +Megahorn

Ferrothorn: FlameUser64
Ferrothorn:
Grass/Steel type
Iron Barbs/Filter/Forewarn (HA)
Ability changes:
Iron Barbs: Now deals damage even if the contact move is blocked by Protect, Spiky Shield, or King's Shield. Detect still prevents Iron Barbs from working, as the user evades attacks rather than blocking them outright.
Forewarn: Now lasts 4 turns, displaying each move in the foe's set in descending order of base power at a rate of one move per turn. Additionally, moves revealed by Forewarn are guaranteed to miss against this Pokémon on the turn it reveals them.
Base stats: 105/124/161/54/141/15 BST: 600
Moveset additions: +Spiky Shield, +Powder, +Magic Coat, +Mimic, +Headbutt, +Catapult (with all due respect to zerobreaker000, your move is amazing and I'm borrowing it for mine too)
New moves and move changes:
Catapult:
Type: Rock
Category: Physical
Power: 55
Accuracy: 85%
Target: Any
PP: 8
In-game description: The user lobs nearby pebbles at the opposing side. If Stealth Rock is active on the user's side of the field, this move's power doubles and Stealth Rock is removed.
Effect: Doubles in base power if Stealth Rock is on the user's side. Removes stealth rock from the user's side if the move hits.
Bomb move.

Also while we're at it, an item modification:
Rocky Helmet: Now deals damage even if the contact move is blocked by Protect, Spiky Shield, or King's Shield. Detect still prevents a Rocky Helmet from working, as the user evades attacks rather than blocking them outright.

Reasoning:
So how about that Forewarn buff though?

Ferrothorn can now remove Stealth Rock via that nice new move, Catapult. It has increased bulk as well to help deal with the increased power of most of the threats running around this tier. Additionally, it is now even slower, meaning it gets maximum power on Gyro Ball just a little bit easier. Spiky Shield just makes sense and makes it an even better physical wall, letting it stall for leftovers recovery while also dealing chip damage to foes with contact moves. Magic Coat lets it avoid being Burned and also stops hazards before they can be put up in the first place. Powder takes care of that Fire-type weakness. Iron Barbs is still Iron Barbs, but now also synergizes beautifully with Spiky Shield. Filter mitigates its Fighting weakness and drastically reduces its Fire weakness, from 4x to 2.25x. Forewarn serves as an amazing scouting tool, as well as possible protection against a foe's most powerful attacks right when they try to use them. It also gets Ferrothorn a lot of free switch-ins.

Mimic is just there because everything that learns standard TMs learns Mimic thanks to the Mimic Girl in Kanto. Similarly, Headbutt is there due to the tutor in Johto who teaches it so you can hit trees to get Pokémon to fall out.


Now marks the submission phase for Groudon(-Primal), Kyogre(-Primal), and Rayquaza(-Mega/Primal), how Rayquaza's transformation will be handled (primal reversion or mega-evolution), and limits on primals + megas.
 
Kyogre-P
(insert pic here)
Water/Psychic (evolves with Blue Orb as well)
100/150/100/190/170/90 (800 BST)
Primordial Sea/Ancient Waves*
*Increases Water-types SpA, SpD, and Def for 8 turns.
+Ancient Power, +Stored Power, +Psyshock, +Psychic, +Recover, +Giga Splash*, +Frost Breath
*Water type, Special, 5 PP (8 max), 180 BP, Lowers Spe, SpD, and Def by 1 when used (basically water-type special V-Create)
Modified Moves:
Ancient Power: Psychic type, 70 BP, 10 PP (16 max), always critical hit, all stat raise removed.

Groudon-P (evolves from Red Orb still)
(Insert pic here)
Ground/Fire
100/190/170/150/100/90 (800 BST)
Desolate Land/Primal Earth*
*Increases Ground-types Atk, Def, and Spe for 8 turns.
+Tremor*, +Flare Blitz, +Belly Drum, +Thousand Waves, +Crunch, +Shadow Claw, +Superpower
*Ground type, Physical, 5 PP (8 max), 180 BP, Lowers Spe, Def, and SpD by 1 when used
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
I suggest we keep the winning Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza submissions and submit Primals/Megas for them.

Groudon-Primal
Ground | Fire
130 | 180 | 160 | 151 | 110 | 89 (820 BST; +30 Atk, +20 Def, +51 SAtk, -1 Spe // stat changes upon primal reversing)
Desolate Land (Change: Extremely Harsh Sunlight lasts for 10 turns or until Groudon switches out. If the opponent has a legendary weather condition ability, the weather becomes normal.)
Mega slot is used when transformed. Primal transformation is still automatic in switch in.

Kyogre-Primal
Water | Ice
130 | 151 | 110 | 180 | 160 | 89 (820 BST; +51 Atk, +30 SAtk, +20 SDef, -1 Spe // stat changes upon primal reversing)
Primordial Sea (Change: Heavy Rain lasts for 10 turns or until Kyogre switches out. If the opponent has a legendary weather condition ability, the weather becomes normal.)
+Freeze Storm (150 BP, Ice-type, Special, 100% Accu., 8 PP; Less power as HP decreases. // Counterpart to Magmatic Slam)
Mega slot is used when transformed. Primal transformation is still automatic in switch in.

Rayquaza-Mega
Dragon | Flying
105 | 175 | 120 | 175 | 120 | 125 (820 BST; +15 Atk, +30 Def, +15 SAtk, +30 SDef, +10 Spe // stat changes upon mega evolving)
Delta Stream (Change: Strong Winds lasts for 10 turns or until Rayquaza switches out. If the opponent has a legendary weather condition ability, the weather becomes normal.)
+Dragon Descent (Flying-type, Status, 16 PP; Heals 50% of this Pokemon's HP, Rayquaza drops item. // Allows Rayquaza to Mega Evolve)
Changed Move: Dragon Ascent: Special move. Super-effective against Dragon-types. Doesn't allow Rayquaza to Mega Evolve anymore.
 
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Primal/Mega mechanics: Limit 1 Primal per team, limit 1 Mega per team. So yes, you can have both a Primal and a Mega. This is why Mega Rayquaza is now Primal Rayquaza and now requires a Jade Orb as a held item to undergo Primal Reversion. Primal Reversion still occurs instantly on switch-in.

Primal Kyogre:
Water/Ice type
Primordial Sea
Ability change:
Primordial Sea: In addition to its old effect, sets normal Rain for 5 turns when this Pokémon leaves the field. If a Pokémon with Desolate Land is on the field at the same time as this Pokémon, the weather alternates between Heavy Rain and Intense Sun every turn, instead of the slower Pokémon's weather winning. In the event that both Pokémon enter the field simultaneously, the faster Pokémon's weather appears on odd turns (1st turn out, 3rd turn out, etc.) while the slower Pokémon's weather appears on even turns (2nd turn out, 4th turn out, etc.)
Base stats: 130/120/140/190/150/90 BST: 820 (+20 Atk, +30 Def, +40 Sp. Atk, +10 Sp. Def relative to normal form)

Primal Groudon:
Ground/Fire type
Desolate Land
Ability change:
Desolate Land: In addition to its old effect, sets normal Sun for 5 turns when this Pokémon leaves the field. If a Pokémon with Primordial Sea is on the field at the same time as this Pokémon, the weather alternates between Intense Sun and Heavy Rain every turn, instead of the slower Pokémon's weather winning. In the event that both Pokémon enter the field simultaneously, the faster Pokémon's weather appears on odd turns (1st turn out, 3rd turn out, etc.) while the slower Pokémon's weather appears on even turns (2nd turn out, 4th turn out, etc.)
Base stats: 130/190/150/120/140/90 BST: 820 (+40 Atk, +10 Def, +20 Sp. Atk, +30 Sp. Def relative to normal form)

Primal Rayquaza (undergoes Primal Reversion using the Jade Orb, which is now a held item. Mega Rayquaza is no longer a thing):
Dragon/Flying type
Delta Stream
Ability change:
Delta Stream: Strong Winds weather prevents even Primordial Sea and Desolate Land from being activated. Leaves behind a single turn of Fog (as the Gen IV weather) on switch-out.
Base stats: 105/185/105/185/105/135 BST: 820 (+25 Atk, +15 Def, +25 Sp. Atk, +15 Sp. Def, +20 Speed relative to normal form)

Also we should include Delibird in the next slate because Christmas. XD

Edit: Fixed Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon's base stats. No idea how I screwed those up before lol.
 
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Primal Kyogre

Water / Electric
130/130/110/190/140/120 BST 820
Primordial Sea
New Move: Raging Torrent - Water | 150 BP | 100 Acc | Physical | 5 PP (8 PP max) | 1/3rd recoil damage. Has a 30% chance to Paralyze during Heavy Rain and Rain
Now has access to Bolt Strike and Hurricane

Primal Groudon

Ground / Fire
130/190/140/130/110/120 BST 820
Desolate Land
New Move: Tectonic Shift - Ground | 150 BP | 100 Acc | Special | 5 PP (8 PP max) | 1/3rd recoil damage. Has a 30% chance to Burn during Heavy Sunlight and Sunlight
Now has access to Blue Flare

Both become decent-ish mixed attackers and get new moves that correspond with the opposite attacking force. Also they get Blue Flare and Bolt Strike. Kyogre now gets part Electric-typing. Kyogre gets Hurricane for the whole weather package - and kind of makes up for Groudon having more signature moves than him. More focus on offensive prowess rather than bulk.

Mega Rayquaza

Now has use Dragon Ascent in order to Mega Evolve.
Dragon / Flying
Delta Stream
105/170/105/170/105/145 BST 820
Now gets access to Oblivion Wing
New Move: Gale Strike - Flying | 75 BP | 100 Acc | Physical | 10 PP (16 PP max I think) | BP doubles in power during Strong Wind
Move Change
Dragon Ascent: Flying | -- BP | -- Acc | Status | 5 PP (8 PP max) | -6 Priority | This attack Mega Evolves Rayquaza into Mega Rayquaza. This attack only needs to be used once.
Mechanic Changes
Strong Winds now doubles the speed of non grounded Pokemon and negates all other weather from being activated. Cannot be overriden by any other weather effect - not even Primoridal Sea or Desolate Land. Last for 5 turns.

Gets a strong physical Flying-type STAB. It can't really use it with a set-up set because it's only 150 BP during the now 3 turns of Strong Wind (which is now turbo-tailwind), although not completely useless outside of it. Still 75 BP isn't that great for sweeping. Not that DD or SD are even that great - they need to run Dragon Ascent in order to Mega Evolve. It's also no longer not 4x weak to Ice because Strong Winds is now turbo-tailwind. Instead of using up an item it uses up a moveslot. Has lower attacking stats than its Primal Friends in order to make up for the fact it can hold a Life Orb. Pretty neat
 
The bearer of this ability wins all speed ties in heavy rainfall.Well, well, well... look at what I've helped to inspire.

Brawl Minus dev here, and the very same that coded the initial Sonic Boost and re-worked the "Running Bowser Grab" into the Royal Rampage we all know and love today. So we're on the ORAS legendary formes, hm? I suppose I could offer a few suggestions.

Primal Kyogre said:

Primal Kyogre
Water/Electric
100/110/110/180/160/100
Blue Orb now extends the duration of normal rain to 8 turns as Damp Rock does.
Primordial Sea - Heavy rainfall is now changed to provide an immunity to Ground-type attacks, rather than Fire-type attacks. Heavy rainfall also provides the fire resistance of normal rainfall, and changes the weather to normal rainfall as it switches. The bearer of this ability wins all speed ties in heavy rainfall.
Gains access to Bolt Strike and Hurricane
Origin Pulse now bypasses accuracy checks when rain falls, both normal and heavy.

A nerf here and there to improve the duality of the OG weather brats, but a slew of buffs to make up for it. Running a mod project makes you quickly realize that sometimes, things might almost be at your desired power level already anyway.
Primal Groudon said:

Primal Groudon
Fire/Ground
100/180/160/110/110/100
Red Orb now extends the duration of normal sun to 8 turns as Heat Rock does.
Desolate Land - All moves that bypass accuracy checks in rain fail under intense sunlight, in the same way Water-type (and now Ice-type as well) moves do. This ability changes the weather to normal sunlight upon becoming inactive. The bearer of this ability wins all speed ties in intense sunlight.
Gains access to Sacred Fire
Precipice Blades now bypasses accuracy checks in sunny weather, both normal and intense.

This one needed even fewer alterations, but the increases to its weaker defense and speed help it against Primal Kyogre, in the same way the same buffs help Primal Kyogre against it.
Mega Rayquaza said:

Dragon / Flying
105/150/110/180/110/125
Delta Stream - Strong Winds will now allow Hurricane to bypass accuracy checks, and halves the amount of Stealth Rock damage any Flying-type takes. Strong Winds fade at the end of any turn where it becomes inactive.
Electing to Mega Evolve will block selection of any move Rayquaza knows other than Dragon Ascent on the turn you elect to Mega Evolve it.
Dragon Ascent - Dragon-type, BP: 180, Acc: 95%, lowers both the user's Defenses and its Speed by one stage each.
Gains access to Hurricane.

Now I know what you're thinking. "Giving the Pokémon that had to be banned beyond banned more power? What are you, CRAZY?" And who knows, maybe I am. However! Allow me to explain the methods to my madness...

As we all know, Mega Rayquaza being "forced" to know Dragon Ascent isn't a bad thing when Dragon Ascent is a move every other physically based Flying-type from Kanto to Kalos is jealous of. Now, not only does Dragon Ascent no longer hit any harder as Mega Rayquaza than as normal Rayquaza, it's arguably a worse typing now because Fairies can come in for free. Moreover, it now has to use Dragon Ascent, and thereby lower its defenses and speed, in order to Mega Evolve. And for those who don't think a -1 in speed will help check its power all that much? Even after I gave it this new speed tier, it's outpaced by unmodified Hypno at -1 (assuming both are max speed, anyway); and as such, it will be more reliant on Extreme Speed, the only priority it gets, in order to continue its sweep unhindered as it does in the "tier" it made for itself.
 

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