Pokemon RBY In-Game Tiers - Mark III

[atsync]

I'm not actively maintaining this list at the moment and am unlikely to make changes unless there was some desire within the community to revamp the entire thing (for what it's worth I actually have other issues with the tier list we made back then - Top tier containing too many Pokemon being the main one).

I will just say that Vulpix's placement in Low was relatively uncontroversial back in the day and was heavily swayed by its initial suck period before it gets Flamethrower which Modulo covers reasonably well. It really doesn't seem like it can contribute a great deal before Flamethrower unless you decide to evolve it ASAP, in which case it misses out on its early Flamethrower niche. Once it gets there it is probably pretty solid even with the largish number of Water-types you encounter later on, so whether that's fair is of course subjective. To be honest I think I'd sooner use Growlithe and Charmander over Vulpix since I don't think the extra power of an early Flamethrower is nearly as much of a reward for grinding Vulpix to that point as some might think but I can understand why someone might prefer Vulpix (not that you can really "choose" between Growlithe and Vulpix in RB).

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I'm not actively maintaining this list at the moment and am unlikely to make changes unless there was some desire within the community to revamp the entire thing (for what it's worth I actually have other issues with the tier list we made back then - Top tier containing too many Pokemon being the main one).

I will just say that Vulpix's placement in Low was relatively uncontroversial back in the day and was heavily swayed by its initial suck period before it gets Flamethrower which Modulo covers reasonably well. It really doesn't seem like it can contribute a great deal before Flamethrower unless you decide to evolve it ASAP, in which case it misses out on its early Flamethrower niche. Once it gets there it is probably pretty solid even with the largish number of Water-types you encounter later on, so whether that's fair is of course subjective. To be honest I think I'd sooner use Growlithe and Charmander over Vulpix since I don't think the extra power of an early Flamethrower is nearly as much of a reward for grinding Vulpix to that point as some might think but I can understand why someone might prefer Vulpix (not that you can really "choose" between Growlithe and Vulpix in RB).

I do not mind revamping your list here if you want me to take it over. I've always wanted to lead another tier list and have already successfully led a BW1 in-game tier list that was published on-site.

 

[Longfellow]

I completed Platinum for the first time (!) and was wondering what kind of in-game tier list it would have. On my way to find that topic, I stumbled into this thread again.

Reminder to self that I should do a Safari mon run, like I mentioned in my last post.

I'd like to nominate Dratini for middle tier.

Incidentally, despite what we might expect, Dragonite doesn't actually learn Fly in RBY!

I actually haven't run Dratini, though I do remain a Dratini skeptic... boltbeam coverage against Lance and Rival is cool but it sounds like too little too late! Maybe I'll run it sometime, but I really have trouble seeing it moving above low tier.

I guess this is an unpopular opinion because the in-game tier list puts it right next to Weedle. RBY Weedle.

Hehe, in this case it's because it's alphabetical (though I don't think Weedle is *that* bad in a game with so many Bug-weak mons)

If we were to re-tier RBY, we could probably do with one more tier. My gut feeling is that Vulpix has a pretty good case in being tier 4 out of 5, but maybe not tier 3 out of 4. I guess I'd have to run it to be sure though. Vulpix is another mon I haven't run since I was a kid (Ninetales was one of my childhood favorites).

I do not mind revamping your list here if you want me to take it over. I've always wanted to lead another tier list and have already successfully led a BW1 in-game tier list that was published on-site.

I'd be happy to chip in if we do want to get this rolling again, though I don't think I'd be one of the main players a second time around

 

[Longfellow]

Sorry for the double post but I couldn't resist doing a quick tier list idea I've been thinking about—separate tier lists for different parts of the game. Of course the simplicity and readability of a single list is a big reason we make tier lists in the first place, but on the other hand it's hard to meaningfully compare, say, Rattata and Shellder when they contribute at such different times. I thought it would be interesting to look at Pokémon based on what strictly they can contribute at certain points in the game.

A lot of it is untested and probably wrong (and just my point of view anyway) but I wanted to get it down "on paper" before it disappears from my brain.

Beginning—from Pallet Town to the start of Cerulean City

TOP
Squirtle (RB)
Charmander (RB)
Nidoran M
Clefairy

MID
Bulbasaur (RB)
Nidoran F
Mankey (Y)
Jigglypuff
Pikachu (Y)
Rattata
Pikachu (RB)
Spearow
Pidgey

LOW
Geodude
Caterpie
Weedle
Zubat
Paras

Early game—from Cerulean City to Rock Tunnel / Lavender Town

TOP
Clefairy
Nidoran M
Nidoran F
Jigglypuff
Squirtle (RB)
Diglett

HIGH
Mr. Mime
Bulbasaur (RB)
Charmander (RB)
Caterpie
Rattata
Abra
Spearow -> traded Farfetch'd (RB)
Rattata -> traded Poliwag (Jp B)

LOW
Pikachu (Y)
Pikachu (RB)
Sandshrew
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur (Y)
Weedle
Spearow
Oddish
Drowzee
Squirtle (Y)
Mankey
Pidgey
Geodude
Ekans

BOTTOM (some of these mons appear in or right before Rock Tunnel so I can't really move them above here because they do contribute, but only a little)
Meowth
Zubat
Paras
Machop
Onix
Voltorb
Magnemite (Y)
Magikarp

Mid-game—from Lavender Town to completion of Pokémon Tower

S TIER
Diglett
Abra

TOP
Mr. Mime
Clefairy
Poliwag (Jp B)
Nidoran M
Nidoran F
Magikarp
Hitmonlee
Vaporeon
Drowzee

HIGH
Farfetch'd (RB)
Doduo
Jigglypuff
Spearow
Sandshrew
Jolteon
Squirtle
Rattata
Flareon
Caterpie
Weedle
Pikachu
Growlithe (R)
Charmander
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur

LOW
Gastly
Hitmonchan
Mankey
Machop
Geodude
Ekans
Meowth
Magnemite
Voltorb
Vulpix
Onix

BOTTOM
Oddish
Paras
Pidgey
Pinsir
Scyther
Zubat
Cubone
Dratini
Porygon

Late game—from waking up the Snorlaxen to Victory Road

TOP
Articuno
Zapdos
Poliwag (Jp B)
Mr. Mime
Abra
Diglett
Clefairy
Magikarp
Vaporeon
Nidoran M
Nidoran F

HIGH
Jynx
Jolteon
Poliwag (Y)
Tentacool
Staryu
Shellder
Drowzee
Poliwag (RB)
Seel (non-traded)
Dratini

MID
Doduo
Sandshrew
Squirtle
Farfetch'd (RB)
Psyduck (RB)
Omanyte
Kabuto
Jigglypuff
Spearow
Hitmonlee
Horsea
Slowpoke
Rattata
Voltorb
Magnemite
Pikachu
Vulpix
Flareon
Charmander
Growlithe (R)
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur
Caterpie
Weedle

LOW
Chansey
Kangaskhan
Snorlax
Gastly
Pinsir
Scyther
Mankey
Geodude
Ponyta
Meowth
Ekans
Pidgey
Cubone
Magmar
Electabuzz
Venonat
Hitmonchan
Tauros
Machop
Oddish
Paras

BOTTOM
Lickitung (RB)
Aerodactyl
Porygon
Growlithe (Y)
Koffing
Onix
Grimer
Rhyhorn
Dratini
Zubat
Farfetch’d (Y)
Exeggcute
Tangela
Goldeen
Lapras
Krabby (R)
Psyduck (Y)

DITTO
Ditto

Endgame—Elite Four

S-TIER
Articuno
Zapdos

TOP
Jynx
Ponyta -> traded Seel
Poliwag (Jp B)
Staryu
Magikarp
Poliwag (Y)
Tentacool
Shellder
Jolteon
Vaporeon
Seel (non-traded)

HIGH
Abra
Mr. Mime
Diglett
Chansey
Clefairy
Nidoran M
Nidoran F
Magnemite
Lapras
Electabuzz
Voltorb
Pikachu
Drowzee
Sandshrew
Omanyte
Kabuto
Poliwag (RB)
Squirtle
Psyduck (RB)
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur

MID
Tauros
Kangaskhan
Hitmonlee
Snorlax
Exeggcute
Gastly
Geodude
Doduo
Farfetch'd (RB)
Jigglypuff
Spearow
Horsea
Slowpoke
Goldeen
Rattata
Moltres
Venonat


LOW
Oddish
Caterpie
Charmander
Mankey
Paras
Rhyhorn
Magmar
Flareon
Ponyta
Vulpix
Growlithe
Pinsir
Scyther
Cubone
Ekans

BOTTOM
Porygon
Meowth
Hitmonchan
Machop
Pidgey
Koffing
Weedle
Lickitung (RB)
Aerodactyl
Onix
Grimer
Tangela
Farfetch’d (Y)
Zubat

DITTO
Ditto

Bonus: ranking of late-game waters

Articuno

Jynx
Poliwag (Jp B)
Ponyta -> traded Seel
Staryu
Poliwag (Y)
Tentacool
Shellder

Poliwag (RB)
Seel (non-traded)
Krabby (BY)
Omanyte
Kabuto
Psyduck (RB)
Horsea
Slowpoke

Goldeen
Lapras

 

[Questions Frog]

Bonus: ranking of late-game waters

Articuno

Jynx
Poliwag (Jp B)
Ponyta -> traded Seel
Staryu
Poliwag (Y)
Tentacool
Shellder

Poliwag (RB)
Seel (non-traded)
Krabby (BY)
Omanyte
Kabuto
Psyduck (RB)
Horsea
Slowpoke

Goldeen
Lapras

I understand why you have Articuno and Jynx on this list, and I agree that they belong at the top if they are on the list in the first place, but for the sake of decency, call it something like late-game Water- or Ice-types instead!

Where do you think Squirtle ranks on this list, and how much of a difference does R/B vs Y make?

 

[Longfellow]

Heh heh heh re: the Ices. I always used to refer to only Water-types as late-game Waters but at some point I realized that Articuno and Jynx are very similar in function (late-game Pokémon with a good elemental attack that doesn't require a TM, auto-win matchups against Rock- and Ground-type users like Giovanni, and the ability to learn Ice moves to fight Lance). Anyway, they're all H2O-based ;)

If we're talking strictly about Squirtle's late-game contributions, I feel like it's basically unremarkable compared to other Waters (and it RB vs. Y wouldn't make a huge difference here). Blastoise as a species in the late game is similar to (but slightly better than) Golduck in stats and movepool, so that's an absolute baseline. But a lot of the question with it and other earlier Waters (Vaporeon, Magikarp, jp Poliwag) is what level they're at by the time you can Surf/fish for the other Water-types. A level 40 Blastoise is probably going to remain better than a freshly caught level 30 Shellder, but maybe it's reasonable to say that you're expected to give the Shellder a few levels to catch up, in which case the Cloyster's probably better.

I guess I'd put a high-leveled Squirtle right around Tentacool. If Squirtle comes in underleveled or we let the newly caught Pokémon take a few extra levels, maybe it's just below nontraded Seel.

Of course, if we look at RB Squirtle's contributions across the whole game it's probably the very best H2O-based mon. I don't know where exactly I'd put Y Squirtle in an overall tier list but it seems to me like it can't be better than Vaporeon (who's also not on that list, so... not very helpful of me. But I never did like having to compare Pokémon across different levels of availability).

 

[Xator_Nova]

Regarding the recent Vulpix discussion, it's also mentioned in the analysis that Vulpix can be caught in level 35 in the Pokémon Mansion, directly allowing the player to bypass the fifteen levels to learn Flamethrower. Wouldn't this be an easier method to use Vulpix, and if so, what bearing could that have on its tiering?

 

[Punchshroom]

Regarding the recent Vulpix discussion, it's also mentioned in the analysis that Vulpix can be caught in level 35 in the Pokémon Mansion, directly allowing the player to bypass the fifteen levels to learn Flamethrower. Wouldn't this be an easier method to use Vulpix, and if so, what bearing could that have on its tiering?

Considering a Vulpix obtained at that point has literally nothing but unfavorable/inadequate boss matchups left for it, I think it's safe to say it would have little bearing on its tiering.