Pokemon XD In-Game Tier List

[ASMRxism]

Is it okay to post on a thread that looks dead? If yes, why is Baltoy ranked above Pineco?

Baltoy has weak offenses but good type/stats, level-up moves/type coverage, AND Levitate in a game with a quite a few EQ users. Pineco can't even use its STABs (woo, pin missile), and the utility it offers in competitive is useless in-game.

Claydol is a bulky attacker with low investment. Pineco offers basically nothing. Both take a while to evolve but Baltoy is way less helpless than Pineco.

 

[MellowBusiness]

Hoppip

I've been playing more XD as of recently, and I want to give my opinions on many Pokemon, especially the wild Pokemon.

Hoppip: After a lot of testing, I've seriously considering putting Hoppip in S. But for completely different reasons as to why the other Pokemon are in S tier. While the current S-tiers have near unmatched offensive pressure, Hoppip has near unmatched utility.

The two things that held the Hoppip line somewhat back from true greatness were a lack of leech seed and a lack of accuracy. You could buy X Accuracy at the Phenac Pokemart in Colo, but you'll end up at a money deficient for most battles.. XD buffed the Call feature so that instead of doing nothing, if it is used on a non-Reverse Shadow Pokemon, it boosts accuracy by one stage. You simply need one turn to turn your Sleep Powder into Spore and your Leech Seed into a completely accurate move. Then you simply do the same thing you did in Colo. Put one side to sleep, put the other side to sleep, and proceed to dominate the game with the most broken accessible status condition in the series. You can even do some stuff like teach Espeon Dream Eater early through the Agate Village move tutor for recovery and a very powerful STAB option at that point, although it makes Espeon highly reliant on sleep users. (but honestly, what else would you teach Espeon?) There are going to be situations where two offensive powerhouses can't OHKO the entire side, but there will be always at least one Pokemon Hoppip can put to sleep.

You don't even need to baby Hoppip all that much (if at all) as before you find it on the Pokespot, you can save prior to it and fish for levels. Basically, encounter the Hoppip, and reset until it's level 18-20. Then get it to 20 to teach it leech seed and evolve. If caught at level 20 make sure it still has Leech Seed.

Unfortunately, there are downsides to Hoppip. Like in Colo, its offensive pressure is non-existent. XD does get TM40 Aerial Ace, but it's so far back into the game that it's just not practical to get for any playthrough that isn't 100%. Sleep Powder and Leech Seed don't always have the most PP out there for moves

Surskit

Surskit isn't good, to not many people's surprise. It's a Pokemon that starts off with a pretty unique typing but then becomes another generic Bug/Flying type. It has some decent utility moves such as Water Sport and can learn some interesting moves in Ice Beam/Blizzard, but its stats are just too weak and its too TM/Tutor reliant for moves that are better off with other Pokemon. It needs a lot of babying just so it can learn Bubblebeam at level 25, and it still doesn't do all that well. Most likely resides in F tier. Its only use is catching it to trade for a Shuckle, and even then, Shuckle is the worst out of the trade Pokemon.

Zubat

You can skip the babying portion like you can with Hoppip by catching a high level Zubat. Perferably closet you can get to 21 so it will have Wing Attack. It learns Confuse Ray a few levels later and it has a pretty good defensive typing in Poison/Flying. Unfortuately, Zubat line STAB moves don't get better after Wing Attack and the TM for Sludge Bomb is stuck in the postgame so it eventually falls off. I'd put it in C or D. Not a bad Pokemon, but not exactly a good one either.

Aron

Aron is a Steel type. Not a whole lot to choose from in XD, but being a Steel type is useful in itself with its many resistances. Aron line reminds me of the Spheal line in a lot of ways. Slow, defensive, learns good STAB from level up (Ice/Steel), but has non-existent STAB for the other type (Water/Rock) without TM/Tutor usage. Late evolutions that the player most likely won't reach without grinding on the other end.
Aron is somewhat common to encounter. In the end, it has like a sturdy physical wall that can handle any physical attacker that isn't ground or fighting. C tier.

Wooper

Wooper line is a line that got "worse" from Colo to XD due to the amount of competition it has, as well as Wooper being a rare spawn. And compared to learning Earthquake at level 42 in Colo, 42 is part of the late game in XD. You could circumvent this a bit by teaching it the EQ TM from Cipher Key Lair, but that would be better used for other Ground types as Quagsire can rely on Mud Shot. The only "good" water move it gets in XD is Water Pulse, but in exchange, it now has access to the Body Slam tutor. I'd put it in the low end of C at best, but I'd rather have it a D due to its rarity while still having some pretty good matchups in bosses such as Snattle, Gorigan, Gonzap, and a Water immunity always comes in handy

Sandshrew, Gligar, Trapinch, Phanpy

I grouped them all together because they're all quite interchangeable.
I'll start with the worst. I already talked about Trapinch and I said before it's terrible. It still is terrible. Awful level up movepool, horrifically late evolution, extremely TM and Tutor reliant. Requires babying the entire way though before becoming a Flygon. The only use Trapinch has prior to the postgame or late areas of Mt. Battle is to trade it for a Meditite. Gligar is only slightly worse just without an evolution. Both F tier.

Phanpy and Sandshrew are extremely similar so they share almost all good and bad matchups. Pure ground can be a struggle due to all the water types in the game, but their solid physical bulk can make them useful for many matchups and there are plenty of poison and electric types the two Pokemon can wall. They're fairly TM reliant, but make decent enough use of the TMs. Top of D due to being fairly common encounters.

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[Minority]

In my opinion having more than five tiers is unnecessary to categorize the Pokemon in this game. The tiers should be:

- Very High Potential (First Picks)
- High Potential (Second Picks)
- Moderate Potential (Niche Picks)
- Low Potential (Bad Picks)
- No Potential (Dragonite, Meganium, Typhlosion, Feraligatr)


The top tiers should be:

First Picks

Second Picks

Extensive justification is provided in the Pokemon XD Teambuilding Guide, which is the most comprehensive resource ever created on this topic. It includes all relevant Pokemon data and rates each of them for both their 100% playthough potential as well as their Orre Colosseum potential.

How people rate Shadow Salamence and Shadow Lugia may be the most accurate litmus test for someone's familiarly with this game; while they can only be used in the final two battles they do better in the Greevil battle than any other Pokemon in the game, and this excellence during the game's final trial must automatically catapult them to the highest tier as they can fill out or replace any Pokemon in the builder. Asking opinions on Jumpluff and Zaprong are also good tests.

 

[MellowBusiness]

I've been doing a bunch of testing over the past few weeks in XD as I felt I said all I could about Colosseum's in-game tier list. Plus, despite being the more favorable entry, XD isn't covered as much by the people. I'll admit that while I do find XD objectively better than Colosseum in most ways, I still prefer Colosseum to XD.

Anyways, I agree with Minority in that the tier lists should be combined and we shouldn't have more than five. Let's face it, no one is going to use any Pokemon after Shadow Banette at the latest in a simple in-game playthrough outside of the final battles. They're either too niche or unviable at that point.
While I do think Mareep, Shroomish, and Makuhita (A-tier) are better than the Pokemon in B-tier (as of this writing), I don't think they're that much better to warrant separate tiering. I feel A and B can be comfortably combined into the new A-tier after messing with all the B-tiers. C and D can also be combined into the new B-tier.
With the new C tier (old E-tier), it could represent barely viable mons like Mawile and Duskull, as well as the Citadark Isle mons that have niches in the final battes, such as Shadow Electabuzz and Shadow Mr. Mime. And the new D tier (old F tier) is for the Pokemon that are simply outclassed by a bunch of other Pokemon, come too late, or take up too many resources to be comfortably used in a standard playthough.

I also realized that generally defensive Pokemon have less of a use in XD than Colosseum, even when factoring in the Master Ball glitch. The only Pokemon you'd want to wall are Shadow Pokemon, and since other Shadow Pokemon resist Shadow moves. You may as well just use an adequately leveled Shadow Pokemon. Funny enough, this makes Pokemon like Butterfree plenty viable even in the final battles. BTW, I'm basically considering Snattle's second fight as the "final battles" as all of these fights happen near each other and little downtime between each fight.

If these changes go through, I would also feel some Pokemon move up or down the tiers, and brief reasonings as to why.

Tier Shifts

S-tier would remain unchanged
The new A-tier would remain unchanged in terms of removing Pokemon
I would add Hoppip, to the new A-tier (for now). Even though the Hoppip line is optional to encounter in both Colosseum and XD, it's a little easier to encounter in Colosseum. Reliable sleep on a mon that can outspeed most is just silly nonsense broken.
I would move Wooper down to the new B-tier. Its rare encounter rate, the strange competition it has with Pupitar (and the fact you need a Wooper to trade for a Pupitar), more ground-types in general at your exposure, and lack of access to a free good water move do hurt the Wooper line overall, but it still is capable of doing work.
I would move Meowth down to the new D-tier. Faces heavy competition as not only a Normal type, but as a Sleep inducer as well. The only saving grace that would be Fake Out, is obtained too late in level. It generally does not have a use in an in-game playthrough that another Pokemon doesn't do better.
Same with Pidgeotto, move down to the new D-tier. I generally can't think of anything Pidgeot does better than any other Flying-type that isn't Ledian or Gligar. You get Fearow way earlier, and you get Dodrio now long after Pidgeotto.
I'd also move Swinub down to new D-tier. If Swinub doesn't evolve prior to Cipher Key Lair, which it most likely won't evolve due to Slow Exp growth, it struggles immensely during that time.

I would move Butterfree to B-tier solely based on its utility when capturing other shadow Pokemon. And even if you purify it, it serves a similar purpose that Jumpluff does: spamming sleep. It just trades speed for an actual offensive presence. Butterfree still manages to be the second best sleep spammer in the game, which is why I feel B-tier fits just right.
I would move Banette to C. while it does show up late, it does hit hard enough physically (with a powerful STAB option) to at least warrant some viability. Plus if you purfiy it, it gets access to Helping Hand.

Magneton does face quite the competition as an Electric type, I don't believe it's bad enough to be placed in the bottom tier. Magneton reminds me of Tangela. Both Pokemon require specific team comps as they are pretty gimmicky, and their starting purified moveset leans heavily toward weather abuse, but if you're able to pair them with teammates that complement them, they can shine beautifully and land a metric ton of OHKOs all until Miror B's final battle. I'd put it into new C-tier (top end) with Tangela because of their limited team comps and also existing better options earlier.

I would move Mr. Mime to C-tier. Encore is the sole reason why Mr. Mime would barely fill a niche in the final battles.

Snorunt's late evolution combined with stats that start to lack at the start of Snagem Hideout, means it requires too much babying and support to warrant anything above this new D-tier. Walrein line is way better despite evolving just as late, because at least Sealeo has stats.

Elekid and Meditite

I also did a fun little experience with Zaprong the Elekid and Meditite.
I wanted to use just these two to the best of my ability at the start of Snagem Hideout to the end of Cipher Key Lair just to see where all that EXP would take them.
Even facing some fully-evolved Pokemon, Elekid contributed a lot due to its insane coverage. Meditite had moments where it would struggle, but I also noticed the AI targeted Meditite more than Elekid (even though it's pretty random who they'll attack in the first place). Good thing Meditite comes with Detect, but unfortunately this didn't stop Meditite from dying. However due to this playthrough, I didn't teach my Meditite Brick Break so it had to rely more on unSTAB Shadow Balls, which gave it some trouble as it didn't have access to a reliable Fighting-STAB without prior set up. And considering that Meditite got double-targeted more often than not, using Call was pretty difficult to use in most matches.
Elekid was able to evolve into Electabuzz by the time I reached Gonzap. It was a little close due to some mishaps, but with some optimization, it shouldn't be a tough endeavor to do. If you use the EXP Share, Elekid should have little trouble evolving before Gonzap, especially if it partakes in every battle with the EXP Share equipped.

At Cipher Key Lair, Electabuzz and Meditite started soon outleveling the competition. Meditite became much easier to use once it learned HJK. By the time I got to Gorgian, Electabuzz was at level 44 and Medicham was at level 42. Overall, Electabuzz only fainted a total of one time, while Medicham fainted about three or four times. I'm sure it would have been less if I taught it Brick Break. I think I used one healing item in battle each during that time too.

 

[Karxrida]

Lugia F -> whatever the second lowest rank will be

Assuming we're tiering based off the idea that the player wants to catch every Shadow Pokémon, then Lugia still has a niche that F does not do justice. It's a fatass of a wall, which makes it marginally useful for the Greevil fight if only to be something that sits there to eat hits as you lob balls (and maybe revive you sleeper). It will also be present for the final Miror B. fight to do the same thing. Obviously not amazing, but better than fucking Beedrill.

Pineco could also be bumped up if only because Helping Hand from Duskull to boost Explosion is hilarious.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I am sorry for hijacking this thread slightly I just want to Document information about Pokemon XD somewhere fitting:

I have noticed that after Training extensively against the brown Power Ranger who gives 10 HP EVs with a Macho Brace after I gave my Salamence a Calcium its HP was recalculated.

Does this mean that even Level 100 Mons you could theoretically pump up for example 252 HP and 252 Defense and buy one Calcium to recalculate the stat changes?

I furthermore ask about this Observation because I distinctly remember a Level 100 Arceus one Generation later not being able to get more than 100 EV in each stat - wouldn’t that have been possible all along?


Now my blind opinion about this game: Why is everything so low leveled and why is the enemy density so insane? Great music. Final Boss is too predictable.

Flareon was garbage all the way through, highly do not recommend

 

[MellowBusiness]

I am sorry for hijacking this thread slightly I just want to Document information about Pokemon XD somewhere fitting:

I have noticed that after Training extensively against the brown Power Ranger who gives 10 HP EVs with a Macho Brace after I gave my Salamence a Calcium its HP was recalculated.

Does this mean that even Level 100 Mons you could theoretically pump up for example 252 HP and 252 Defense and buy one Calcium to recalculate the stat changes?

I furthermore ask about this Observation because I distinctly remember a Level 100 Arceus one Generation later not being able to get more than 100 EV in each stat - wouldn’t that have been possible all along?

I think for how Game Freak programmed the Pokemon games, as long as you were below level 100, it needs at least one increase in level to have the EVs fully accounted for.

Now my blind opinion about this game: Why is everything so low leveled and why is the enemy density so insane? Great music. Final Boss is too predictable.

I'm not sure of that one myself. I know in colosseum, you started in the high 20s and the last shadow pokemon was fought around the high 60s. Maybe they just wanted to tone down the difficulty in some fashion for the story portion because colosseum can catch many people off guard, even though in the grand sum of everything, XD is more challenging.

Flareon was garbage all the way through, highly do not recommend

I will not tolerate Flareon slander. Yeah, it isn't better than Espeon or Jolteon (and I wouldn't recommend Flareon over the two, despite Flareon being my favorite Eeveelution). Yes, it has huge competition with the other Fire types (as they almost all act pretty similarly: have Flash Fire or some ability that reduces attack, have a fire move (whether it is Flamethrower or Fire Blast), and then have a Dark or Ground move as coverage. Even so, Flareon still has enough unique traits to not only separate it from the other Fire types, but the Eeveelutions as well.



Now let's get into something interesting that I tested.

Everyone is aware of Sealeo's and Lairon's late evolution requirements, I wanted to see if it was possible to have the two reach their evolutions before the final battles on Citadark. If they start Citadark at level 35 and you go through at least making an attempt to capture all the shadow Pokemon, you can get the two to just barely reach their evolution levels by the time you reach Snattle, but it cuts it really close. You basically need to fight all the trainers possible, and both Pokemon need all the EXP from the battles, even if some of it is split from either a faint-to-revive or a switch. If you don't care about capturing most (or any) shadow Pokemon, reaching the evolution becomes more manageable.

Sealeo does pretty well as long as you teach it Ice Beam and Water Pulse. There are a surprising amount of Pokemon weak to Ice throughout the entire island. It is slow, but most of its Ice Beams are 2HKOs at worst. Lairon was harder to use due to the inaccuracy of Iron Tail (typically making me set up for a turn or more with Call), Double Edge just not doing enough damage at times, and a strange amount of Intimidate users and water coverage. Laion definitely had worse matchups and situations than Sealeo, and its slow EXP growth meant Lairon lagged behind at times.

If you're able to get them to evolve, Walrein and Aggron do well in the final battles with very little to no item usage whereas it's nearly impossible for Sealeo and Lairon to do the same without heavy support from teammates or items.

 

[Baconfry]

I know that the usual policy is to tier Pokemon based on how much they contribute over the whole run, but if you instead view it from the perspective of "should I use this Pokemon when I do obtain it", then for Lugia the answer is probably yes. It's the bulkiest Shadow Pokemon, it's the least likely to enter reverse mode, and unlike Snorlax, it gets good Shadow moves. I'm pretty sure that the game expects you to use your Master Ball on this, so I wouldn't count the 5-slot thing against it. The fact that it does measly damage is a good thing (if you're planning to capture all the Shadow Pokemon), but if you need to chip down enemies faster, you can use Shadow Down with a physical Shadow partner. This is not an F tier Pokemon. In fact, having a role this significant in an efficient playthrough means that it's also probably too good for E. Salamence is better though.

I'm also going to give impressions on the Pokemon I used over the whole playthrough; since it was my first run, I mostly stuck with Pokemon that are actually good.

Espeon - Basically, the in-game Kadabra experience. Light Screen was helpful at times. No complaints. But it definitely does need the Psychic TM.
Teddiursa - If the only move it ever learned was Return, I would rate it exactly the same. With a Choice Band it OHKOes everything, and without a Choice Band it still usually does. Although I may dock some points because during certain parts of the game, that's not what you want. I gave it Brick Break and I kind of regret it, it would have benefitted Breloom or Medicham a lot more.
Houndour - Fire Blast was the strongest nuke on my team for most of the game. Charm is surprisingly useful, though Arcanine made better use of it (more on that later).
Shroomish - You definitely feel Shroomish's lack of offensive presence before it gets Headbutt. And you definitely feel Mach Punch's lack of power against Normal-types that aren't complete wimps. Nonetheless, 130 base attack at lv23 is pretty stupid. Breloom was very helpful in the purification chamber, and I decided to leave it there not because I was unsatisfied with its combat, but because I use Breloom in playthroughs too much.
Carvanha - I ended up not using this in the long term because there aren't that many Water-weak targets, Water Pulse is not that strong to begin with, and Rough Skin is a liability. But the Carvanha stage was not that bad to be honest, with comparable bulk to Houndour.
Meditite - obtained slightly late, but caught up easily. I kept Dynamicpunch on the moveset because I thought it was funny. Since Ursaring got Brick Break, I ran HJK on Medicham. Using its main STAB made me nervous so I used it less often than my other members, but it was able to keep up anyways because of trade EXP.
Zaprong - the enemies are so bad that Zaprong itself might as well not have a dud stage (unless you count Togepi as a dud stage, but that's functionally identical to snagging a Shadow Elekid and purifying it in the chamber). Insane speed. Insane coverage. Insane growth. Not much utility apart from the occasional Thunder paralysis. Probably the best non-Shadow Pokemon on my team.
Growlithe - Ran its starting moveset for the entire game. It was basically Houndoom with better utility, including Charm. I would usually lead with this; in difficult fights I could often cheese physical attackers by dropping them to -3 and then doubling up on the other slot, which turned battles into 2v1s. And yes, I ran with two Fire-type dog Pokemon.
Shadow Snorlax - functioned identically to the roadblock Snorlax in Kanto; I used it on my team for the sole purpose of sitting there and doing nothing while Shadow moves bounced off of it. I would not recommend actually commanding Snorlax to attack; it is better to just waste a turn with Call and hope the enemy uses Shadow End on you. In the final battle, Snorlax got trapped and I needed to bring in Arcanine to spam Charm on Exeggutor, so I had to KO it with my own Lugia to do so. A roadblock all the way to the bitter end. o7
Shadow Electabuzz - brought exclusively to use Shadow Half. I deliberated between using this or Shadow Swellow, but in the end I don't think it mattered considering how little I ended up actually using Shadow Half. Shadow Storm was fine, usually doing like 30-40%.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I think for how Game Freak programmed the Pokemon games, as long as you were below level 100, it needs at least one increase in level to have the EVs fully accounted for.

So basically in Pokemon XD we would have a fix for this EV problem and possibly for later Generation aswell where in some games the Vitamins recalculate each EV. Just wanted to document that here as I remember a lot of people saying back in the day that Level 100 Pokemon except Deoxys are stuck on EVs but it seems that Vitamins are able to fix it... maybe?

I will not tolerate Flareon slander. Yeah, it isn't better than Espeon or Jolteon (and I wouldn't recommend Flareon over the two, despite Flareon being my favorite Eeveelution). Yes, it has huge competition with the other Fire types (as they almost all act pretty similarly: have Flash Fire or some ability that reduces attack, have a fire move (whether it is Flamethrower or Fire Blast), and then have a Dark or Ground move as coverage. Even so, Flareon still has enough unique traits to not only separate it from the other Fire types, but the Eeveelutions as well.

Mine was stuck for a long time with a base 40 normal move as its best option...like am I missing something? Maybe it shows that if you like me play the game blind and don't know every best TM spot for Flareon, that it truly, truly sucks. So yes I slander with conviction and I truly wished I tried Espeon or Jolteon.

Also since here are true Pokemon XD fans: I purified all mons but nothing happened, am I supposed to go somewhere for a reward?

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Mine was stuck for a long time with a base 40 normal move as its best option...like am I missing something? Maybe it shows that if you like me play the game blind and don't know every best TM spot for Flareon, that it truly, truly sucks. So yes I slander with conviction and I truly wished I tried Espeon or Jolteon.

Also since here are true Pokemon XD fans: I purified all mons but nothing happened, am I supposed to go somewhere for a reward?

Flareon gets early Fire Blast which carries it all the way through the end game, my favorite run paired it with Sunny Day Tangela for massive nuking. Later on the Return TM picks up it's attack stat for a powerful mixed attacker. I ran Shadow Ball on mine as well and it performed very well.

There's the secret Shadow Dragonite from Mirror B as #83 but aside from that nothing else iirc

 

[ASMRxism]

Fire Blast/Shadow Ball/Iron Tail is great coverage on Flareon (Fire/Ghost is rarely resisted, Iron Tail handles Rock types) and they aren't really the most hotly contested TMs. Nothing really needs Shadow Ball that doesn't already come with it and Iron doesn't matter.

Honestly, Flareon is probably the starter option with the widest, strongest coverage. It's like the only starter evo where the problem is its stats, not moves.

 

[Thunderfang777]

By the way, does Thunder's low accuracy work against Jolteon? I get that Thunder is a big upgrade from Thundershock, but that 70% accuracy cannot be good for it. I actually called on my first turn using Jolteon before I got TM Thunderbolt.

 

[Karxrida]

By the way, does Thunder's low accuracy work against Jolteon? I get that Thunder is a big upgrade from Thundershock, but that 70% accuracy cannot be good for it. I actually called on my first turn using Jolteon before I got TM Thunderbolt.

Thunder's accuracy can easily be fixed by using Rain Dance, whether on Jolteon itself or a partner. I cannot remember off the top of my head how early you can get the Battle CD that rewards the TM, but Lunatone (which is not a bad pick in this game at all) comes with the move and is available in the early/midgame.

You can also grab the Shock Wave TM for another Electric move, but it requires beating 30 trainers at Mt. Battle. Not hard but a bit of a time sink.