Metagame Pokemoves!

[prunyy]

From my testing, Pokemoves that have the same Atk and SpA always become special. It should work like Tera Blast instead.
Using the move Azelf with Iron Valiant should make it physical since Iron Valiant's Atk is higher, however it looks like it does special instead.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171384419
0 Atk Iron Valiant Psycho Cut (125 BP Physical Psychic-type) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Alomomola: 103-122 (21.8 - 25.9%) -- 3.2% chance to 4HKO - should happen
0 SpA Iron Valiant Psycho Cut (125 BP Special Psychic-type) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 197-232 (41.8 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - what actually happens

Edit: Darkrai is on the banlist but it validates. Darkrai needs to only be in the banlist not the restricted list.

May I ask you something because I'm not sure I've understood how this meta works and the description is not really clear to me.

"The Pokemove "Bulbasaur" will be a Grass-type special move with 65 base power that will give the Pokemon that used it Overgrow together with its regular ability until it switches out. It also has 100% accuracy and 8 PP."

Ok so let's say I put in my 's moveset.

It will have 115 BP (since Flamigo Atk = 115) while being Flying type, am I right so far?

Does need to use Flamigo first so Scrappy can then apply to normal/fightings moves?

Will benefit from Scrappy when it uses Flamigo as a move only? Or at any time? Or at at any time until it switches out?

Thanks for you help.

While I'm here, you would have to use Flamigo first to get Scrappy. When Great Tusk switches, it loses Scrappy and you have to use the move again to get Scrappy again.

 

[AIPS]

I just gave my opponent Toxic Debris
sounds like a fun self poison team until fixed
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171458806

 

[Anchor9]

It’s been an interesting first day and the majority of teams seem to be Webs HO. There have been interesting uses of the bug such as Slakoth Toxic Gliscor and whatever this is: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171459046

Here are some terrifying sets I’ve seen on ladder so far:


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flamigo
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

This is deadly on Web teams, as Flamigo gives Lando-T the Flying STAB it always dreamed of. Choice Banded 115 BP STAB off a 140 Atk stat hits like a truck.


Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Lucario
- Ice Beam

Darkrai gets a reliable Focus Blast to use and this allows it to beat Kingambit. Really great on Webs.


Kingambit @ Air Balloon
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bisharp
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

LOL


Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fraxure / Flamigo
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake / Ice Spinner

This is a beast. Fraxure gives Dragonite a strong STAB. It can hit a wall against Primarina and Corv though . Flamigo is less powerful but allows Dragonite to break past Zamazenta.

This is a really fun Metagame and nothing seems too broken at the moment to me.

Teams I’ve been using:

Screens

Webs

 

[ZarbyXar]

nothing seems too broken at the moment to me.

Behold
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171373128
Native Hustle User in One Try
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171525218
Hustle Pokemove took two tries

 

[Canned Furs]

Hi. There appears to be a minor issue where ability is given to the opponent instead of the user. Which conflicts with the description on the first page.

Wanted to know if this was intended and I somehow missed it in the other pages or if this is a bug that's being worked on?

 

[Scepticskep]

Hi. There appears to be a minor issue where ability is given to the opponent instead of the user. Which conflicts with the description on the first page.

Wanted to know if this was intended and I somehow missed it in the other pages or if this is a bug that's being worked on?

It is a bug, it’s being worked on at the moment.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

maybe when we fix the "give ability to your opponent" bug that seems to be on half of the abilities this meta will be fun, but currently the only way to use pokemoves is to just use highest BP coverage you can that doesn't give strong abilities

 

[HiZo]

From my testing, Pokemoves that have the same Atk and SpA always become special. It should work like Tera Blast instead.
Using the move Azelf with Iron Valiant should make it physical since Iron Valiant's Atk is higher, however it looks like it does special instead.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2171384419
0 Atk Iron Valiant Psycho Cut (125 BP Physical Psychic-type) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Alomomola: 103-122 (21.8 - 25.9%) -- 3.2% chance to 4HKO - should happen
0 SpA Iron Valiant Psycho Cut (125 BP Special Psychic-type) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 197-232 (41.8 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - what actually happens

Edit: Darkrai is on the banlist but it validates. Darkrai needs to only be in the banlist not the restricted list.


While I'm here, you would have to use Flamigo first to get Scrappy. When Great Tusk switches, it loses Scrappy and you have to use the move again to get Scrappy again.

"Like Tera Blast" is incredibly vague, and is technically correct under the current implementation as the move will always be special since Azelf's Special Attack is the same as its Attack. It does do the Tera Blast stat calculation needed but for the species of the pokemove and not of the move holder, which may be what you did not intend to happen but was interpreted by the developer.

 

[Anchor9]

maybe when we fix the "give ability to your opponent" bug that seems to be on half of the abilities this meta will be fun, but currently the only way to use pokemoves is to just use highest BP coverage you can that doesn't give strong abilities

The bug is actually pretty amusing and fun to me. It helps bulkier teams a lot and prevents HO from being over powered. Stall and hazard stack can force switches with Slakoth and self-implode setup sweepers with Malamar. The bug makes a totally different but nonetheless interesting and fun Metagame.

 

[prunyy]

"Like Tera Blast" is incredibly vague, and is technically correct under the current implementation as the move will always be special since Azelf's Special Attack is the same as its Attack. It does do the Tera Blast stat calculation needed but for the species of the pokemove and not of the move holder, which may be what you did not intend to happen but was interpreted by the developer.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense. Also what might’ve happen is that Tera Blast only changes physical if you Tera, I forgot about that. I’ll just say “if the Pokemon the move is based on has equal base Atk and SpA stat then the move is Special, but if the user’s Atk > SpA then it is Physical” so there is no confusion. Thanks for explaining it.

 

[KaenSoul]

With the format working now, I think the next step should be to cut down on HO tools, the council should look at Sticky Web, weather, some Booster Energy mons and Light Clay, feels like that stuff needs to be out of the way before looking at more individual mons beyond the direct abusers of some of those. Format is going to be offensive either way, so we dont really need most of what makes offense better, we can even free more moves if offense get worse...
Also, maybe free some of the restricted mons, experiment with Yanma, Dewpider and Meditite and then may look at the evos, as the set-up turns does make the abilities far weaker than in other formats. And I doubt that Stench would break the game, is a delayed Iron Head and can be blocked by Steel types as all the donors are Poison.
Slaking is also just a better Giga Impact now that is fixed, so it may be ok.
Good luck guys.

 

[Anchor9]

Had some adjustments to my screens team now that abilities work and I like how it is currently
https://pokepast.es/02a0658343c4fff8


Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Teleport

The screen setter of the team and outspeeds Ribombee which is important. Teleport is to pivot if Deo is still alive, but I can see Ice Beam being run in that slot to hit Lando-T and Gliscor.


Kingambit @ Air Balloon
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bisharp
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

Kingambit is Kingambit and is an excellent endgame threat and Web check, as Air Balloon really checks Lando-T and Gholdengo. Bisharp is just the best move, as Defiant punishes Webs and Intimidate from Lando-T


Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Arctibax
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Crazy bulky under screens and usually gets 2 Dragon Dances off. Arctibax provides an essential burn immunity against Moltres and in general. Earthquake covers against Gholdengo and Heatran.


Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Florges
- Calm Mind

Iron Valinat brings a load of Speed control and a Roaring Moon check. Florgres is the Fairy STAB and Flower Veil is actually pretty nice. I’d have nicer things to say except it always loses the speed tie vs. opposing Granbull Iron Vals for some reason so I’m sour about it.


Raging Bolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Latias
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Will set up forever under Screens. Latias allows it to beat Great Tusk, Treads, and Lando-T and makes it generally very hard to kill for non-Frosmoth threats. Does Raging Bolt stuff with Calm Mind and Thunderclap.


Ogerpon-Hearthflame (F) @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Swords Dance
- meowscarada
- Play Rough

Ogerpon is a monster with Webs. I chose Ogerpon-H as it destroys Stall hard and checks Iron Valiant better than Wellspring. It’s ability to beat Skarmory and Dondozo is much appreciated for Dragonite’s sake.

Meta Opinions:
My thoughts on things. 1-5 rating on what I think is problematic.

Webs: 4/5

Day 1 and Webs are absolutely all over the ladder. Abusers have included Haunter Gholdengo, Flamigo Lando-T, Raging Bolt, and Iron Moth. Once Webs are down they’re hard to get off as Great Tusk can’t afford to Spin in this Metagame and Corviknight gets killed by everything and Haunter Gholdengo exists. My suggestion is ban Gholdengo or Ribombee. Gholdengo leaving means removal has a shot. Ribombee leaving means Webs is seriously nerfed.

Screens: 4/5

This allows Frosmoth and Latias Raging Bolt to go wild and Dragonite. Florgres and Granbull Iron Valiant also appreciate it a lot. Light Clay is very strong and probably needs to go.

Sun: 1/5

I really haven’t found Sun to be all that annoying to deal with. Webs can beat it and work around Hatt. Maybe I just haven’t faced a good Sun team yet but I say no action.

Rain: 2/5

Ran into Rain 4 times in a row randomly for some reason. Didn’t have too much trouble with it, although my team has priority and Dragonite, which doesn’t really mind Barra. Would have to see it more.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

I'd argue the opposite and say weather is the most broken right now. With the large abandonment of priority moves in favor of the much stronger Pokemoves, there is almost nothing stopping Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, and Sand Rush users to abuse Damp Rock, Heat Rock, and Smooth Rock.

The mass usage of Sticky Webs does not matter as weather players will simply adapt and use Heavy Duty Boots. The main weather abusers I have seen are Barraskewda, Lilligant-Hisui, and Excadrill. These Pokemon can easily amplify their moves with Lycanroc-Dusk, Gyarados, and Landorus. Stall and bulky offense are nearly unviable in this tier with how powerful the Pokemoves are, so there is nearly no way to effectively counter all the weather types unless you use your own weather.

Ban Damp Rock, Heat Rock, and Smooth Rock.

 

[ZarbyXar]

Do you think that grimmsnarl is a problem? I have noticed that it’s been a bit oppressive with its power as a comatose abuser and donor of high bp dark stab but it could just be me.

 

[TONE]

This new metagame looks fun. Some things I've been tinkering with:



Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tornadus-Therian
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off

Breaker that is able to punish a good portion of the metagame with a strong Flying STAB + Regenerator getting back and Stealth Rock damage it takes seem crazy good to get past bulkier teams and punishes any Ground types attempting to block Volt Switch.



Slowking-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Frosmoth
- Sludge Bomb
- Chilly Reception

Just an overall good special pivot and Chilly Reception is great for dealing with Rain and Sun teams. Frosmoth mainly just here to more reliably have a chance to OHKO Gliscor, but Tera Water with like Vaporeon can have a shot to 2HKO while granting a Water immunity vs Rain teams.



Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Weather Ball
- Exeggutor
- Focus Blast / Scorching Sands
- Fire Blast

Just a thought I had for Sun build that just wants to nuke stuff. Sun + Weather Ball + Solar Power + Exeggutor providing a 125 Grass Special move as well as Chlorophyll doubling Charizard's Speed essentially looking at +2 Sp. Atk and +2 Speed. Obviously needs some hazard control, but does seem like a good breaker for Sun teams to try out.

 

[Hittite Jumpscare]

Cool tech I found out:


Garchomp @ Booster Energy
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Gouging Fire

Gouging Fire gives Garchomp physical fire coverage and a way to boost speed with booster energy (just don't sd before using the move)

 

[AdamPez33]

I try to play this meta and I found many bugs:
Some ability doesn't works and other pokemoves apply the effects on the opposite pokemon instead of mine, so I can run some pokemon like Kingambit, milotic or other defiant/competitive users using as pokemoves pokemon with intimidate giving the ability to my opponent and lowering my stats. In another matches a pokemon giving me Scrappy using Flamigo as pokemoves and levitate with haunter.
I try to use gurdurr to give my pokemon guts, holding a flame orb, but it doesn't works.
Some abilities are now fixed, like intimidate and some pokemon banned, like darkrai with comatose, but other pokemoves and abilities doesn't still working.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

I try to play this meta and I found many bugs:
Some ability doesn't works and other pokemoves apply the effects on the opposite pokemon instead of mine

This was fixed already.

I try to use gurdurr to give my pokemon guts, holding a flame orb, but it doesn't works.
Some abilities are now fixed, like intimidate and some pokemon banned, like darkrai with comatose, but other pokemoves and abilities doesn't still working.

Are you sure they don't work or is it just a generic visual bug like with most OMs that use multiple abilities?

 

[xTimeCrystal]

Best Team I made so far:
https://pokepast.es/c3f22cd1fe469e00

Pretty self-explanatory. Just want to share my success.

 

[xTimeCrystal]

I would have Regidrago in my Roaring Moon move slot but as mentioned above it doesn't work right now. Also the team is the most "OU" like I could get it to be, leading to overall above average power level. All moves also boost themselves or grant defensive utility.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

problematic stuff

1) Rain (and particularly Barraskewda, also Archaludon (why))

rain is really really good, as it often is in OMs, and part of that is Barraskewda (particularly with Bruxish Pokemove, which is a 105 BP move that fully disables most revenge killing options thanks to Barraskewdas' natural ~800 speed under rain). Next best rain phys rain abuser is floatzel whos' just as frail, much weaker (18 less attack), and easier to revenge kill.

Also, Archaludon is an Ubers mon and is problematic even without Pokemoves like Kingdra (90 BP swift swim). Without these two breakers, rain should be fine.

2) Booster Energy (Sneasler)

just... this

oof

Sneasler @ Booster Energy
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- gougingfire
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance

the ability to grant any pokemon 1.33x power (or 1.5x speed) with generally strong attacks is, ouf. Webs is mostly keeping this in check for now, but if webs dies (which its seeming like it is leaning towards). Particularly strong in this aspect is Greninja (really great to enable Battle Bond with 122 dark stab), Sneasler (unburden instant activation), and Lycanroc Dusk (using Iron Boulder as a strictly superior stone edge)

3) webs

honestly, webs seem fine--we're seeing plenty of counterplay with contrary mons like Serperior, or things like Cinderace, Great Tusk, or even Tidy Up mons. But I can understand that they are incredibly polarizing

 

[pecha nerd]

Metagame thoughts

BROKEN PLS BAN

@ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 168 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Latias
- Electro Shot
- Body Press
This guy is just OU arch but better, its even more difficult to revenge after using Latias Pokemove, giving it levitate, making it only have 1 weakness on top of its absurd defenses. KOing this mon without like 2 sacs is near impossible.


@ Leftovers
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Cetitan / Bisharp / Lycanroc-Dusk
- Heavy Slam / Crunch
- Iron Defense
Being able to run any coverage is so good for zama, being able to adapt to any checks is very broken while also being the fastest unmodified mon in the tier. IDBP crunch Lycan Dusk beats most of the metagame.

Probably watch out but not as broken as above

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flamigo
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake / Fire Punch / Encore / Idk roost or smth
- Dragon Dance
Wow dnite with reliable flying STAB and keeping access to multiscale, I wonder how that turned out in other OMs. This mon is just so good into such an offensive meta.


@ Booster Energy / Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunderclap
- Latias
- Calm Mind
110 BP no drawback move that invalidates like half of its checks after use. This mon is a huge threat although valiant being a top mon rn sort of keeps it in check.

: Rain is very strong, effectively gets no-recoil wave crash in or (intimidate immunity) pokemoves, and WaterPon gets swift swim and a 123 BP atk through barraskewda Pokemove (even faster waterpon, every OU player's nightmare). Although I think this is a lot less problematic if arch gets banned

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (maybe u could run some defensive investment for gambit)
Timid Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Literally any coverage - ex.
- Morning Sun / Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
Another former OU threat that remains mostly the same here, just like in OU, uncheckable with a single mon due to its set diversity, not having to rely on tera to gain coverage is good too. Although not getting tera itself to improve its defensive typing does make it harder to set up and easier to revenge.

edited to include spoilers tags

 

[BLVZ3R]

Rock Head from Golem doesn't work on Staraptor with Reckless? Come on man how do you make a metagame and screw up the key mechanic...

Edit: The FAQ said you get the primary ability right away, apparently you have to use the move first to get the move ability. NVM.

 

[AIPS]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2172325367
I'm pretty sure that Pokémoves should activate when hitting a Substitute

 

[Dawn's Piplup]

Found this bug. If Smeargle has Sketch in 1st move slot and Conversion in 2nd move slot, using Conversion after Sketching a pokemove crashes the game. Here is a replay.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokemoves-2172477516