Politoed (Perish Trapper)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/politoed



Status: Awaiting response from QC.

name: Perish Trapper
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Whirlpool
move 3: Protect
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Grip Claw / Leftovers
nature: Bold
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 SpD

Use Water Absorb because you can Protect against Exploders. Toxic is for bulky waters with Water Absorb (I'm lookin' at you Quagsire) that eat up your Whirlpool and wait for you to switch out, though Ice Beam is slashed in for type coverage and shits if you want to run something different. You can use Grip Claw or Leftovers, though Grip Claw will make Whirlpool last longer in case you're afraid of it running out in two turns.

Why this set deserves to be on site:
- Has decent enough defensive stats, and excellent mono-water typing.
- Not as physically frail as Mismagius is and has better typing than Lapras.
- Easily eliminates Registeel and other bulky pokémon and can make way for an easier sweep for other teammates.

Additional Comments:
- Wish support is appreciated if you lack the prediction to come in on water-type moves.

Teammates and Counters
- Obvious counters are grass types in general, as well as boosted Electric Attacks.
- Moltres is a great teammate, as Poltoed finds himself destroyed by grass types, including the ubiquitous Venusaur, whom Moltres can easily counter via Air Slash/Fire Blast. Moltres also draws out bulky water types which Politoed walls with ease.
- Dugtrio is also a good teammate; if Politoed fails, then Dugtrio can allow one extra turn of Perish Song to secure the kill. Dugtrio is useless against Rotom, though.
- If using Moltres as a teammate, consider both Rapid Spin support and a FWG core for your team.
 
Whirlpool.. 70% accuracy T_T

is there an item that guarantees that Whirlpool lasts for 5 turns? Otherwise it's no use I'd Whirpool ends after 2 turns. Why Ice Beam? You don't get STAB so elaborate.. Water Absorb should be the ability.. If something's going to explode use Protect.
 

breh

強いだね
Grip claw should be used here, though the 70% accuracy is annoying

Atreecko (of youtube) used this to great success on PBR wifi; although I know the skill level there is low, it should work fine on shoddy

I really can't see many problems bar the accuracy and venusaur; looks good; as YaM said use water absorb for recovery; damp is useless really
 
Whirlpool.. 70% accuracy T_T

is there an item that guarantees that Whirlpool lasts for 5 turns? Otherwise it's no use I'd Whirpool ends after 2 turns. Why Ice Beam? You don't get STAB so elaborate.. Water Absorb should be the ability.. If something's going to explode use Protect.
Grip Claw will make Whirlpool last the full five turns. I changed the wording and mentioned to use Water Absorb, etc, etc.

Grip claw should be used here, though the 70% accuracy is annoying

Atreecko (of youtube) used this to great success on PBR wifi; although I know the skill level there is low, it should work fine on shoddy

I really can't see many problems bar the accuracy and venusaur; looks good
Thanks.

I kind of slapped on the EV spread without putting too much thought into it. I ran some quick calcs and Defensive Milotic's HP Grass won't even 4HKO Politoed, which is way past the two-turn mark for Perish Song. Support Registeel's EQ is in the same boat, 4HKO'ing at best factoring in Stealth Rock and running Grip Claw > Leftovers. If anybody has any suggestions about the EV spread then please voice them.
 
I agree with Breludicolo about putting Grip Claw on Politoed. Also, I have a couple of comments. First, Whirlpool's 70% accuracy will be putting many people off. I find it too unreliable as a trapping move. Also, if Whirlpool misses, opponents will probably figure out that this is a Perish Trapper set, and switch to something that can beat this set. However, I have seen this set before, in description and in battle. I actually would have lost one of my Pokemon to it, had it not been for a lucky crit. It is a good set, but I personally think that putting a lot of trust in a 70% accuracy move isn't the best idea. I'm not going against this set, though, but I'm just stating my view on it.
 

breh

強いだね
I kind of slapped on the EV spread without putting too much thought into it. I ran some quick calcs and Defensive Milotic's HP Grass won't even 4HKO Politoed, which is way past the two-turn mark for Perish Song. Support Registeel's EQ is in the same boat, 4HKO'ing at best factoring in Stealth Rock and running Grip Claw > Leftovers. If anybody has any suggestions about the EV spread then please voice them.

I very much like this; could you please post the exact calcs though?

oh yeah and grip claw is doubled up and the ability requires a tag (ability: Water Absorb); I'm not sure where it goes but I believe after either EVs or Nature

Anyway, as you mention, this set has problems with Venusaur and Water Abosrbers. Thus, I suggest mentioning a relatively defensive Venusaur for water absorbers like poliwrath and a sleep talker for Venusaur. Don't run ice beam; just run surf instead. Sure you're walled by Water absorbers and grass types, but they can be countered. Instead this turns it into something that can also reliably take on powerful fire types; using toxic is problematic because it leaves you with Whirlpool as your only attack, which is really, really bad
 

shrang

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Why would I use this over Lapras or Mismagius, who either have better bulk or better speed o_0, not to mention a better trapping move (Block/Mean Look). This is not to mention that Perish Trapping is a relatively unreliable tactic anyway, especially with the 70% Whirlpool accuracy.
 

breh

強いだね
Why would I use this over Lapras or Mismagius, who either have better bulk or better speed o_0, not to mention a better trapping move (Block/Mean Look). This is not to mention that Perish Trapping is a relatively unreliable tactic anyway, especially with the 70% Whirlpool accuracy.

Lapras has that ice type, which is enough on its own, IMO... it just adds way too many weaknesses and neutrailites.. weakness to fighting, steel neutrality (thanks for catching that SE; basically what I meant with that is that even uninvested registeel iron head hurts), and neutrality to fire are bad (FB arcanine hurts); politoed is also faster (not that important but outspeeding and not tieing with stuff like min clef is nice)
Mismagius is far less bulkier but does admittedly have a far better Special Attack and a recovery move

Oh and mention 228 speed as enough to outrun max+ torterra and slower... I.E. a chance to hit stuff like aggron and Rhyperior before they set up... sure it won't OHKO, but you can finish them off with priority

finally dugtrio is a good teammate in case Politoed can't finish the job, although it fails against Rotom
 
Why would I use this over Lapras or Mismagius, who either have better bulk or better speed o_0, not to mention a better trapping move (Block/Mean Look). This is not to mention that Perish Trapping is a relatively unreliable tactic anyway, especially with the 70% Whirlpool accuracy.
Politoed's bulk isn't bad, just not as good as Lapras'. Politoed also has better typing than Lapras, and doesn't get completely fucked by Fighting moves like Lapras does. Mismagius pretty much falls to any physical move with attack EV's invested.

Just one other nitpick, you have Grip Claw listed twice.

On a side note, I'm surprised at how many replies this thread has gotten with so little views...
Fixed, and yes I was surprised too :s

Lapras has that ice type, which is enough on its own, IMO... it just adds way too many weaknesses and neutrailites.. weakness to fighting, steel (yes registeel can actually do damage to it), and neutrality to fire are bad (FB arcanine hurts); politoed is also faster (not that important but outspeeding and not tieing with stuff like min clef is nice)
Mismagius is far less bulkier but does admittedly have a far better Special Attack and a recovery move

Oh and mention 228 speed as enough to outrun max+ torterra and slower... I.E. a chance to hit stuff like aggron and Rhyperior before they set up... sure it won't OHKO, but you can finish them off with priority

finally dugtrio is a good teammate in case Politoed can't finish the job, although it fails against Rotom
To reach 228 Speed, Toed would have to invest 208 Speed EV's with a neutral nature, and 128 with a Speed boosting nature, so I don't think that it's really worth lowering your Defenses/HP that much in order to outspeed Torterra/Aggron/etc.

I will mention Dugtrio as a partner.
 

breh

強いだね
To reach 228 Speed, Toed would have to invest 208 Speed EV's with a neutral nature, and 128 with a Speed boosting nature, so I don't think that it's really worth lowering your Defenses/HP that much in order to outspeed Torterra/Aggron/etc.
lol, I meant literally investing 228 speed EVs; this lets you reach 233 I believe, outspeeding max+ torterra and anything slower... sure it's not that important but it lets you outspeed a lot of nice stuff
 
I find it hard to believe in this set ... there are two reasons:

1. 70% Whirlpool accuracy means you only trap 70% of the time. The remainder of the time you wasted an attack.
2. By forcing Grip Claw you lose all recovery you have (outside of Wish support, but then again Wish support isn't easy to pull off).

Perish trapping is tough enough to pull off and these two drawbacks don't help. These aren't minor issues too. What can you trap with Politoed that you can't with Mismagius / Lapras anyway? Registeel and Milotic are fair game for both of them as well. I guess there's Arcanine (without HP Grass) ... and what else?
 
While I don't actually have anything to say about the set, the link to Politoeds analysis leads to the Wormadam-G analysis, for some reason ?___?
 
I find it hard to believe in this set ... there are two reasons:

1. 70% Whirlpool accuracy means you only trap 70% of the time. The remainder of the time you wasted an attack.
2. By forcing Grip Claw you lose all recovery you have (outside of Wish support, but then again Wish support isn't easy to pull off).

Perish trapping is tough enough to pull off and these two drawbacks don't help. These aren't minor issues too. What can you trap with Politoed that you can't with Mismagius / Lapras anyway? Registeel and Milotic are fair game for both of them as well. I guess there's Arcanine (without HP Grass) ... and what else?
Banedon has summed up the problems for this set. Even though I have seen this in action, I have to admit that it isn't the best one to be put on an analysis. It's too unreliable, and it can be done better by Lapras and Mismagius. Good set, but (sorry if I sound a little rude) not good enough.
 
As we're cleaning out the subforum, I'm bumping this set up. This thread had its posters split between liking it and disliking it. Personally, I dislike it. However, I'll try to list the pros and cons of this set as best as I can.

Pros:
- Decent bulk and to pull it off
- Water Absorb allows it to come in more often
- (Somewhat) tested and proven to work (atreeko on YouTube, and I've seen it before too)

Cons:
- "Decent" bulk won't always cut it
- Trapping move is 70% accurate & lasts for only 5 turns (at most)
- Using Grip Claw as an item takes away recovery from Lefties
- Perish Trapping is not really reliable in the first place
- No instant recovery
- If Taunted, the only attacking move is Whirlpool (unless Ice Beam is run over Toxic)

Basically, I think the cons outweigh the pros, especially the fact that Whirlpool is the trapping move instead of the more reliable Mean Look and Block. I do think this set deserves an OC mention, but not as an analysis. However, it's up to the QC raters to decide.
 

Oglemi

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Heh, that's funny Flashrider that you mention atreeko, he was actually one of my first friends on Youtube when I used to do videos.

Anyway, I think the only merit this set has over the average Perish Trapper is that Whirlpool continues to trap the opponent even after Politoed has switched out. And, while Politoed may have the bulk to accomplish this in some instances, I don't think it's consistent enough to warrant a set. (70% accuracy can kiss my ass.) Plus, this thing has some major 4MSS.

In short, too gimmicky.

Can I get some QC input in here please? Thank you.
 

Bad Ass

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QC REJECTION 1/2

this just isn't really viable, to be honest

whirpool is pretty terrible, 70 accuracy

shit like venusaur comes in and will likely ohko you

grip claw -_-
 

Bluewind

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Yeah this is just... unreliable. Doubts have been risen on many sets that rely on Perish Trapping, and this one not only does so, but relies on moves with terrible accuracy and odd items. So yeah, sorry but:

QC REJECTED 2/2
 

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