Politoed's Demise

[magic_leopard]

Politoed's Demise

Introduction​

Hello to everyone! This is my first RMT ever, and the team was originally made around 2 months ago on Pokemon Online. It basically came about from my general annoyance at the strategy and power of the numerous drizzle teams flying around, and to a lesser extent, sand, and so I vied for a way to counter the most commonly used sets such as Swords dance toxicroak and Rotom-W, whilst still being able to fare competently against standard teams. This team is essentially a hail stall team, and as such consists of a solid defensive core that uses hazard support to gradually wear down the opposing side So, here we are:

At A Glance

Team analysis​

The Crux​

@ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer​

So, a standard sub-seeding Abomasnow set is the first choice of my team. Abomasnow is obviouly used for his ability to change the weather, thus making other weather starters switch out and switch back in again to remove the negative effects of hail on their team (particularly politoed). For this reason he is usually my lead against opposing weather teams. I like this set the best, primarily because it means that I always get my weather up first due to no speed investment and a hindering nature, something which appeals to me over the choice scarf set. Furthermore, Abomasnow's decent defenses mean that a sub seed set works great in absorbing hits you wouldn't think it could take, in particular the grass moves that my two water types hate.
Woodhammer does that most important of jobs of OHKO or 2HKO'ing politoed doing 89.5% - 105.8%, while also hitting Ttar for super-effective STAB damage. This is crucial, as it can bag a match from the start by eliminating the opposing weather starter immediately. Blizzard is a great move to have on Abomasnow, as it is powerful and a reliable STAB under hail, and scares off the likes of Hippowdon, Dragonite and Gliscor. Sub-seeding works great in particular with forretress providing hazard support, as it forces many switches and causes damage to rack up over time. In addition, the pokemon who normally cause great problems for abomasnow by resisting its dual STAB's don't enjoy the residual leech seed and hail combination, such as Bronzong, Jirachi, Metagross, and Volcarona.
Of course, i need Abomasnow alive to maintain my weather and provide a grass resist, so Abomasnow is scared out by any pokemon that carries a fire type move. This is where my next pokemon comes in:

The Mixed Wall

@ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp​

Jellicent plays a crucial role as one of the teams physical walls and fire resists, dealing with that pokemon that abomasnow fears most, infernape leads, by resisting both it's STAB's. Water absorb also plays a key role in countering rain teams. 44 speed EV's allow it to outspeed and so either burn or taunt potential bulky threats such as scizor, who is often seen on a rain team. Surf is very useful as the teams only water attack, and can take out important threats like volcarona and infernape should they wish to stay in. Jellicent also has synergy with froslass as the team's all important spin blockers, which help keep those hazards up for good. Will-o-wisp and taunt let me out-manouveur both ferrothorn and Tyranitar in certain cases which is an admirable and incredibly useful niche for my team.
Jellicent is just all around an extremely important part of my defensive core.

The "Glue"

@ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -SpAtk)
- Scald
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover​

Now, Gastrodon may appear at first to be an odd choice for the team. Jellicent already preforms as a great fire resist and water absorber, so why do I need another, similar pokemon instead of something like a special sweeper?
Firstly, I need another bulky water: the rest of my team is severely fire weak, so a single volcarona or infernape once jellicent is gone would otherwise spell endgame and present a clean sweep. Secondly, Earth power. This move is incredibly useful, because it gives me a way of destroying many of this teams best counters, such as Ttar, Magnezone, Rotom-W, Starmie and Tran. Gastro's bulk means that I have a nice utility counter on hand should the need arise, or should jellicent be down. It also lets me check Sub-Calm mind Jirachi, otherwise a real nuisance for this team. Blizzard gives Gastrodon coverage against top threats such as Latios, Dragonite, and other common targets like Gliscor and Salamence. I already have plenty of pokes to deal with his 4x Grass weakness,so it isn't detrimental to my teams synergy.

"Hard Bodied" wall

@ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Spdef / 144 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock​

So yeah, i had simple idea what kind of team i'm going to build. I knew i need layers and Rapid Spinner because they are huge support for all hail teams. Forretress makes a pretty good lead because it's nice to get Toxic Spikes or Spikes down early and it helps as a defensive wall with a decent amount of attacking power. Forretress further bolsters the defensive core with great defenses and a Grass resistance. I run EQ over gyro ball to surprise incoming infernape or heatran, and it is particularly useful in stopping magnezones setting up, and can even kill zone if not taken out first (e.g. sturdy). It is for this reason that I chose leftovers over shed shell.
Forretress is a huge part of this team because of its ability to get rid of rocks and put up hazards of my own, allowing me to stall out the opponents team in conjunction with hail by forcing switches.

The Sweeper

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge​

Mamoswine is the perfect offensive force for this team: his dual STAB is extremely potent in the current metagame, and his gigantic attack stat makes Mamoswine a formidable late game sweeper and revenge killer.
However, the real benefit of Mamoswine is in his typing: Mamoswine works equally well in both hail and sand. Especially with excadrill's recent banning, many sand teams crumble to Mamo's STAB, boosted EQ coming from around 400 spd, with the primary physical wall, Gliscor, and all dragon's handled by Icicle crash. It helps also that Mamoswine gains a surprise value as many opponents simply don't expect the scarf: Mamoswine can therefore get away with kills that it shouldn't, and also allows late game clean up once hazards are down. Stone edge is there for coverage, enabling you to hit icoming Rotom-W's for example. Ice shard rounds off the set as a useful revenge killing device to pick off a weakened but boosted foe and prevent sweeps by either faster pokemon or priority (e.g. +6 scizor).
In the hail meanwhile, Mamo gets the useful Snow cloak, which simply adds to the benefits by possibly letting you win certain situations through hax.



And Finally...

Mrs. Ragequit

@ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 40 HP / 216 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Disable
- Pain Split
- Blizzard​

The queen of Hail stall makes a shining appearance. Froslass, while not the bulkiest of pokemon, can stall with the best of them. The basis of Froslass's set is her ability snow cloak, which, in the same way as mamoswine, raises her evasion in a hailstorm. This, combined with her high speed allowing her to lay down subs before the opponent can act, combined with Paralysis support, gives the opponent a high chance to miss hitting froslass at all, which, when combined with hail damage, entry hazards, and Froslass's own strong STAB Blizzard, the opponents pokemon is going to be whittled down in a very short time, especially if they lack leftovers. Froslass also operates as a helpful secondary spin block
However, this is all standard for a froslass, so I wanted to use a new strategy. So, after seeing how successful sub-disable gengar is in the meta, surely frosslass could be just as successful, with a great speed stat and snow cloak?
So, after a bit of testing, I finally realized just how excellently this worked with the rest of her traits. I really don't understand how this isn't more widely used, even without hail, particularly in the UU metagame. Sub-disable means she can waste even more time in stalling the opponents and so allow hail to rack up. Not only this but, as with gengar, she can disable the opponents only effective attacking move, and so keep her subs or even force a switch. Froslass alone has caused many rage quits because of this, hence her title. I put this set here in the hope that you too will try it and see how effective it is.

Threats and problems:​

This team has so far been very successful, well at least far more successful for me than the many other hail teams I have either seen on RMT's or made myself. However there are a number of important weaknesses.
Sunny day teams are problematic, because the two attacking types used in the sun, namely fire and grass, are both huge weaknesses to my team, and so I need very good prediction to get around this.
Reuniclus poses a large threat to my team, becuse of magic guard. The only way to beat reuniclus is to disable psychic on reuniclus, so it can only use focus blast, switch to jellicent, taunt, and then do as much damage as possible.

Exportable

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Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer

Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 40 HP / 216 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Disable
- Thunder Wave
- Blizzard

Mamoswine (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -spAtk)
- Blizzard
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Recover

Example replay against a Drizzle team:

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-NidoKingdra-vs-Magileo--2011-10-24

Closing Comments

This team is very satisfying to play as so far, and, whilst not perfect, I think that it is a good team that fares well in the current metagame. Feel free to comment, argue, suggest ideas, and enjoy!​

*CHANGES IN RED*

 

[Cuban Vader]

I find this team very funny due to the fact that I made the exact team a week ago, just with a few move variations. The biggest difference is I have eq on Gastrodon over ep. The reason being is it's higher base power and lack of water weaknesses made it rare that I got the special attack boost

 

[RandomName12321]

I would suggest a CMLatias instead of Gastro
Latias not only can take water moves, but can beat CMReniculas with CM+Roar

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Latias (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar

This could help as it helps aids against stall and Reniculas. It can also help with Sun Teams by keeping your fire resist and a grass resistance. However, it does open you up to Volcarona a little.

 

[mazzulmaz]

You say that when Forry wants to spin away Toxic Spikes, he will get poisoned. As far as I know, Steel types are immune to Toxic Spikes.

 

[magic_leopard]

I would suggest a CMLatias instead of Gastro
Latias not only can take water moves, but can beat CMReniculas with CM+Roar

Hide

Latias (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar

This could help as it helps aids against stall and Reniculas. It can also help with Sun Teams by keeping your fire resist and a grass resistance. However, it does open you up to Volcarona a little.

Hi there!
Thanks to everyone for replying. The reason I prefer using Gastro over latias/latios is because gastro fares far better agaibst Tyranitar, a pokemon who otherwise rips through my team. As you say, they are also unable to take a bugbuzz from volcarona, something which gastro can do and hit back with toxic.

I just realized the forry toxic spikes thing Lol point taken nvm.

Hmmm interesting putting EQ on gastro. As you say kinda messes with the whole storm drain thing but i'll have to try it myself. Did you really have exactly the same team? Or just the defensive pokes?

Cheers everyone

 

[Cuban Vader]

Hi there!
Thanks to everyone for replying. The reason I prefer using Gastro over latias/latios is because gastro fares far better agaibst Tyranitar, a pokemon who otherwise rips through my team. As you say, they are also unable to take a bugbuzz from volcarona, something which gastro can do and hit back with toxic.

I just realized the forry toxic spikes thing Lol point taken nvm.

Hmmm interesting putting EQ on gastro. As you say kinda messes with the whole storm drain thing but i'll have to try it myself. Did you really have exactly the same team? Or just the defensive pokes?

Cheers everyone

Same pokes exactly, just slightly different ev spreads and a few move changes. I actually use the same Frosslass. But EQ is more reliably powerful specifically with this team. If you had more Water weaknesses I'd say EP

 

[New World Order]

Hi, this is a solid Hail stall. However, it seems that Froslass is a cancer to team synergy. You rely on Toxic to rack up a lot of damage, and Froslass' Thunder Wave can potentially ruin that. This can be mitigated by simply replacing T-Wave for Spikes. This not only gives Froslass something to do behind a Substitute besides Blizzard spam, but also opens up a moveslot for Forretress to use Toxic Spikes.

Currently, everbody on the team is prone to Grass and Fire moves, meaning you get dominated by sun teams. CM Reuniclus laughs at Hail, hazards, and status, while CMing up and mauling your team. CM Roar Latias would be a great choice over Gastrodon. Not only would Roar help you deal with Reuniclus, you can also use it to rack up entry hazards damage. Abomasnow is more than capable of dealing with Tyranitar, and Mamoswine laughs at both Heatran and Magnezone. Latias can cover Rotom-W and many other rain threats too, so the only things you're exposing your team to is Starmie. Gastrodon has no business against Volcorona anyways, who can 2HKO it with Bug Buzz.

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Latias @ Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
252 Hp/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Roar

Finally, I suggest running Choice Scarf on Abomasnow to patch up the recently opened Starmie problem. You can still spam Blizzard and Wood Hammer as always. As long as you keep Stealth Rocks off the field, Abomasnow shouldn't have issues staying alive. Earthquake gives you a way to hit Ninetales switchins, who would otherwise be a nightmare for Obama. Hidden Power Fire gives you an option against pokemon that normally wall him such as Ferrothorn.

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Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Snow Warning
Hasty
16 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 240 Spe
- Wood Hammer
- Blizzard
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire

 

[coughing]

It seems a few people are running similar teams, i'm currently running basically the same team but with latias over gastrodon, its 412 on the PO server so far but now i have seen this team i would feel bad for posting it since its basically the same, that frosslass is insane. However spikes would probably be a better option over T-wave, it's pretty fast already.

 

[CaseyL]

Oh good, Im not the only one who thought about SubDisable Froslass :)

Building on New World Order's rate, another move I noticed Froslass got was Pain Split. Not sure if it's legal or not, but if it is, it could really help break down Pokemon with huge HP stats while recovering lost HP from Substitute.

Conkledurr, for example, wouldn't be afraid of Froslass at all, since Payback and Stone Edge are both super effective. Bring her in on a fighting type move, sub, disable, and finally remove a huge chunk of HP with Pain Split.

Anyways, I hope this team works out for you. Good luck!

 

[magic_leopard]

OK, first of all, DISABLE IS ILLEGAL WITH SPIKES. Let me just make that clear. I have tried out a team which replaces my frosslass with a sub/spikes/Blizzard/pain split and it works out ok, but not quite as effectively as my preffered sub/disable set. So i'm afraid that's kinda a sticking point.

Also, I have been using Latias lately, and I agree she is better for this team, as she grants an additional beneficial fighting resist whilst also walling reuniclus, something gastro couldn't dream of. However, there is the annoying factor that Latias doesn't quite threaten physical pokes like Infernape enough as Gastrodon did, so I am actually preferring using a support set, with

Hide

Latias @ Leftovers
Timid 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Recover / Wish
~ Roar
~ Reflect / Protect

What do you think?
Thanks again for all the replies, good to see hail is holding its own with all this rain flying around.

Hide

Oh yeah before I forget, I also made a fun little [DW] RU team if you want to try it out (I know this isn't the proper way to post it but whatever, it's just a fun [DW] RU team, basically based around regice, just if you're interested):
Claydol @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam

Snover (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Blizzard
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Sneasel (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Fake Out
- Counter
- Taunt

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Knock Off

Regice @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Blizzard

Rotom-F @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 128 Def / 128 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Discharge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

 

[The Truth]

when running latias>gastrodon, once ferro goes down, which isnt too hard as it lacks recovery, swords dance scizor can sweep. IF it runs pursuit>bug bite. I'm really not sure how to take care of this, i was using a really similar team and it just felt extremely scizor-weak.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Hey there.

I suggest that you switch your Gastrodon's moveset to 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef with a Relaxed Nature. This will greatly help your team out as Gastrodon will now be able to take hits from physical attackers such as Terrakion and Landorus much more easily; this takes pressure off of your other walls. Gastrodon can still easily wall the likes of Rotom-W and Heatran very easily thanks to it's great typing; Volcarona can be stopped by Jellicent rather easily, especially with Hail wearing down Volcarona. A Relaxed Nature will allow you to run Earthquake over Earth Power, which is a much better option seeing as how it can deal more damage to threats such as Volcarona, Calm Mind Jirachi, and Tentacruel.

I also suggest that you change your Forretress's EV Spread to 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef. Magnezone isn't nearly common enough to warrant using 112 Attack EVs in combination with Earthquake; Magnezone can knock out Forretress easily with Hidden Power Fire regardless (Hail will kill you if you've been knocked down to Sturdy, and Forretress is much too crucial to your team to "trade" its death for that of a Magnezone). Therefore, replace Earthquake with Volt Switch and give Forretress a Shed Shell over Leftovers. Once Forretress goes down, it becomes extremely difficult for your team to win, so running a Shed Shell is almost a necessity. Volt Switch, on the other hand, allows Forretress to gain momentum for your team by giving you switch advantages against common switch-ins such as Jellicent.

Finally, replace Thunder Wave on Froslass with Hidden Power Fighting. This will let Froslass 2HKO enemy Tyranitar, who can otherwise switch-in extremely easily and force Froslass out. HP Fighting also has the benefit of hitting other steel types such as Heatran, making it much harder for them to wall you. Thunder Wave isn't too useful on Froslass anyway, seeing as how Blizzard + Hail + Snow Cloak can easily wear down the opposition.

Nice hail team. Hope I helped, and good luck!

 

[Gehenna]

You should consider a Sp. Def rachi over Forretress; otherwise, Specs Tornadus wrecks your entire team.

 

[magic_leopard]

You should consider a Sp. Def rachi over Forretress; otherwise, Specs Tornadus wrecks your entire team.

My team is extremely Stealth rock weak. I consider a rapid spinner as essential to the sucess of this team. Specs tornadus will most likely miss in hail anyway, in particular when used on frosslass (Snow cloak)