Poliwrath (Full Revamp)

Well Poliwrath didn't get too much from Platinum. Platinum gave Poliwrath Vacuum Wave and Dive, and made Ice Punch compatible with Egg Moves (not that Poliwrath has any good Egg moves), but both are mediocre. Dive is just a two turned Waterfall that will only really help if you're stalling, and Vacuum Wave is pathetically weak off of Poliwrath's crappy offense.

However I thought that the current analysis probably could use some rewriting, I think that the Defensive Sets aren't viable enough to actually do stuff, and I condensed the two Bulk Up sets into one, because they play exactly the same, the CB set is the same as the one in the analysis.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/poliwrath

Special thanks to Colonel M for double checking this before I posted it
-----------------
[SET]
name: Sub Punch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Rock Slide / Ice Punch
move 4: Hypnosis / Brick Break
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Poliwrath's decent typing lets it switch in on most Scizor, Waters, Darks, and Rocks. Focus Punch will hurt anything not resistant or immune to it. The choice between Rock Slide and Ice Punch depends on which fliers you want to hit more; Rock Slide does more to Ice, Bug, and Fire types, whereas Ice does more to Dragon, Grass, and Ground types. It's worth pointing out that many Bulky Grounds won't be taking that much from Ice Punch off of Poliwrath's low attack; even Gliscor is only rarely 2HKOed with Leftovers. Rock Slide is superior because out of all the pokemon that the second attack will be outdamaging Focus Punch, there are more pokemon that get KOed by Rock Slide than Ice Punch. </p>

<p>Hypnosis is a splendid move on a Focus Punching Poliwrath. Similar to Spore+Focus Punch Breloom, Hypnosis gives Poliwrath a free turn to either set up a Sub or to Focus Punch, and it can cripple anything Poliwrath doesn't feel like facing 60% of the time. Brick Break may seem pointless when you already have Focus Punch, but it can be handy, for example if you're facing a Dragon Danced Tyranitar where you'll want to go for a quick KO with Brick Break instead of setting up Substitute and Focus Punch. Waterfall is an extra STAB option, but it can only barely scrape a 2HKO against Ghosts like Gengar and normal Rotom, and isn't doing any damage to anything more defensive than that. Focus Punch is only slightly weaker than a super effective Waterfall anyways, so in general Waterfall is an inferior option. You can also use Hydro Pump instead of Rock Slide/Ice Punch, because it 2HKOs Rotom, Claydol, Steelix and Weezing.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Substitute / Hypnosis
move 3: Focus Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Hydro Pump
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>After a couple Bulk Ups, Poliwrath can actually start doing some damage. Substitute prevents slower things from statusing you and helps your prediction, or lack thereof. Hypnosis will make this easier to set up, but you'll be losing the protection Substitute provides. Focus Punch is much more useful with Substitute as well. After a Bulk Up, Focus Punch does 73-87% against a max HP/Def Steelix, an easy 2HKO, and against a 252 HP/208 Def Impish Shuckle Focus Punch does 48-57%, a 47% chance of a 2HKO without SR. Many of Poliwrath's counters, such as Weezing and Claydol, are 2HKOed with Hydro Pump. You can run Ice Punch over Hydro Pump, but Hydro Pump's power is much better in the long run.</p>

<p>Brick Break is another option if you prefer a consistent STAB, but Poliwrath has a lot of trouble doing damage with only one Bulk Up. Ice Punch is definitely superior to Rock Slide in this case, but again, Focus Punch is still doing more damage except to Fighting resists. If you choose to run an attack over Substitute/Hypnosis, make it Ice Punch, but Rock Slide is an option if you really want.</p>

[SET]
name: Solo Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Brick Break
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Rock Slide / Ice Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Poliwrath's decided to drop the Sub and go all out on the offenses. For this set to do any damage, you need to have at least one Bulk Up, but after a Bulk Up Poliwrath starts putting the hurt on things. Poliwrath can generally OHKO most frailer Pokemon that are weak to its attacks, and with Stealth Rock, can OHKO things as defensive as 252/252 Bold Walrein. The choice between Rock Slide and Ice Punch is the same as above; Rock Slide is probably better, but Ice Punch hits any Grass/Poison and Dragon/Flying types.</p>

<p>You can choose between Jolly or Adamant, but the power loss for Jolly will be noticeable. With Jolly you're outspeeding all Jolly Tyranitar, neutral natured Heatran, and all neutral natured base 80s, many of whom Poliwrath has a chance of KOing, so it's really your choice.</p>

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With this set, Poliwrath can come in on its many resists and begin to wear down its opponents. Absol's Psycho Cut only has a 1% chance to 2HKO, even with Life Orb, and Poliwrath does 79.70% - 93.73% back with Brick Break, meaning that any residual damage is going to take Absol out. Poliwrath can generally switch into nearly all of its resists, but in general it can only hurt things either 4x weak to its attacks, or things 2x weak if they're frail. Hydro Pump gives you the chance of 2HKOing Ninetales, which can only 3HKO at best without any boosts, but Hypnosis is a better all-purpose move that is fantastic for any defensive Poliwrath. A Choice Banded, max Attack Kabutops can only 3HKO at best, and most physically-oriented Rain Sweepers cannot touch Poliwrath. Altaria can stall out Ice Punch with Roost as it is faster, but cannot do enough damage to Poliwrath to pose a threat. In general, most UU pokemon that are weak to one of Poliwrath's attacks tend to get OHKOed or 2HKOed.</p>

<p>Poliwrath's unique typing gives it an edge in the standard metagame as well, resisting Dark, Steel, Rock, Water and Ice, all commonly seen attacking types. Tyranitar can only 3HKO with Earthquake, and is 2HKOed by Brick Break. Weavile falls to Brick Break as well. Poliwrath isn't afraid of any of Scizor's attacks other than +2 Fighting attacks, though Poliwrath struggles to damage it. Hypnosis is a good move for any defensive Pokemon. In general, Poliwrath can catch most sweepers with a OHKO or 2HKO if Poliwrath can hit them super effective, but Poliwrath's low Attack is very noticeable. Relaxed is inferior to Impish, as Tyranitar can outspeed Poliwrath and 3HKO before Poliwrath can get in the second Brick Break. Hidden Power Electric will reliably beat out Gyarados with Bold and 56 SpA EVs, but it fails to cover anything except Gyarados.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Waterfall / Hydro Pump
move 2: Brick Break / Focus Punch
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Earthquake / Rock Slide
item: Choice Band
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Adamant
evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>STAB on Water moves is the only thing that sets Poliwrath apart from all its Fighting brethren, as the more powerful Toxicroak also boasts the ability to absorb Water. However, Poliwrath has much better defenses, and notably he isn't weak to Earthquake, making switching in a lot easier. Earthquake is usually useless on Fighting-types, but Poliwrath can use it to hammer Toxicroak, who resists everything barring Ice Punch, and the extra power against some of the bulkier Electrics like Ampharos and Lanturn doesn't hurt either. If you elect to use this in OU, then it is highly recommended you ditch Earthquake for Rock Slide to take on Gyarados, who can actually be 2HKOed with it, assuming Poliwrath switches in, thus avoiding Intimidate. You can ditch Waterfall for the more powerful Hydro Pump, as even with a Special Attack lowering nature, it'll 2HKO Claydol and Weezing.</p>

<p>The lack of great Fighting STAB is disappointing (read: Poliwrath doesn't learn Close Combat), hence the reason Focus Punch is included as an option over Brick Break.</p>

[SET]
name: Belly Drummer
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Belly Drum
move 3: Brick Break / Waterfall
move 4: Ice Punch / Return
item: Salac Berry
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Substitute on a switch-out (or on an attack that doesn't break your Substitute, if your opponent is foolish enough to leave such an offensively weak Pokémon in), and then Belly Drum to land Poliwrath at 393 Speed and 1076 Attack—high for a usual Pokémon, but rather mediocre for a Belly Drummer. Nonetheless, when you actually get there and you aren't getting owned by Quick Attack clones or Choice Scarf enemies, you could actually be in sweeping position. This set is hard to pull off, but can cause quite an uproar, especially in underused matches.</p>

<p>Either Brick Break / Ice Punch or Waterfall / Return provide good coverage, as only a handful of opponents resist either combination. Besides Shedinja, who is immune to all four attacks, Fighting / Ice is only resisted by Froslass, Grumpig (with Thick Fat), Starmie, Slowbro and Slowking, and Water / Normal is walled only by Empoleon, Giratina and Dialga.</p>

<p>There are some riskier alternatives for executing this set, which require replacing Substitute. One way involves switching Poliwrath into a slower Pokémon that does between 25% and 50% to it, then use Hypnosis. Pray to Arceus it hits, then Belly Drum. The only thing you'll have to fear is an unexpected Sleep Talk. Or, of course, a counter to Belly Drum Poliwrath. Instead of Hypnosis, you can use a third attack, to offer greater type coverage. Adding Rock Slide to the Brick Break / Ice Punch combination offers complete coverage. To use this option to full potential, you must let Poliwrath take a hit that doesn't kill you, but still lets you get into Salac range. Without taking any residual damage into account, that means between 25% and 50%. Switching into Blissey Seismic Toss is good for this, because it will often switch out. A weak Earthquake from something like Quagsire or Gastrodon will also work.</p>

<p>Optionally you can use Adamant. You'll get a little more oomph, in trade for a Speed cut-down (358 after Salac Berry). You won't outspeed Raikou, Persian, Weavile and other fast critters without heavy Speed investments though. Make sure your HP is divisible by four though when using Substitute so the Salac Berry activates after three Substitutes.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Payback is a good attack for frail Ghosts and Psychics, OHKOing Gengar and OHKOing normal Rotom about half the time, but the fact that the OHKO on Rotom isn't even guaranteed by Stealth Rock shows you how little damage Payback really does. Body Slam isn't bad if you want some paralysis support, and combines well with Waterfall, both in terms of coverage and secondary effects (paralyze enemies and try to flinch them). Haze works against Calm Mind Suicune and not much else. Endeavor rubs in Poliwrath's inability to get more than 393 Speed, but is a reasonable move that can surprise people in a pinch. Vacuum Wave could theoretically combine well with Endeavor, but off of Poliwrath's pathetic Special Attack, it won't be doing much, failing to even OHKO Weavile without Stealth Rock. Counter can KO a physical attacker that Poliwrath would otherwise struggle to hurt, but at the cost of Poliwrath's health, and without recovery, Poliwrath really can't spare any HP.</p>

<p>The defensive set listed above is probably Poliwrath's best options in terms of defense, but there are others. Because of Poliwrath's typing, Poliwrath can be switched in a lot, and rather than relying on Water Absorb and Leftovers, Poliwrath can run a RestTalk set, either with dual STAB in Waterfall and Brick Break, or even a mono-attacker with Bulk Up and Waterfall.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Poliwrath needs all the Attack EVs it can get, but it appreciates HP and Defense investment in order to take advantage of its good typing. Poliwrath can run some Speed EVs on its sets; with 128 EVs Poliwrath outruns minimum Speed Suicune, most Metagross, all Marowak, and some Milotic. 184 EVs puts Poliwrath ahead of Adamant Tyranitar. You can take these EVs from HP or Attack, but whichever one you choose, Poliwrath will either take a cut in its defensive or offensive abilities.</p>

<p>For Bulk Up sets that use Substitute, max HP will guarantee that minimum Attack Dusknoir fails to break Poliwrath's Sub with ThunderPunch, after one Bulk Up.</p>

<p>Defensively, you should really use max HP and max Def, because Poliwrath wants to be able to switch in as painlessly as possible. The extra point should be put into Speed, to outrun Skarmory. You can take an extra point to put in 8 EVs, in order to play the game of outrunning 4 EV Skarmory, but 4 Speed EVs should be sufficient.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Poliwrath's unique typing gives it a resistance to Fire, Ice, Bug, Rock, Dark and Steel, and its ability lets it heal from Water. Poliwrath can come in on several major threats at little risk to itself. After a Bulk Up, Poliwrath can at least 2HKO most of UU's physical walls, though like most Fighters, cannot get through Weezing. In the OU environment, Poliwrath can be successful too. Scizor can only muster up a 2HKO even after a Swords Dance, and most bulky waters can't touch Poliwrath. Poliwrath needs to watch out for surprise Hidden Power Electrics, but Vaporeon, Suicune, and most other pokemon that rely on the Water+Ice combination are setup bait for Poliwrath. Hypnosis, though unreliable, is a good status move that can cripple a counter.</p>

<p>However, Poliwrath's biggest downfall comes from its stat distribution. Poliwrath needs nearly max Attack to have any chance to do damage, but this compromises its capability to take hits. Its lack of a recovery move or a strong, consistent STAB option limit it, and though Poliwrath can come in on pokemon like Absol, Weavile, and even a +2 Scizor, it struggles to do anything back. Poliwrath fails to differentiate itself enough from other UU Fighters, many of whom have both better Attack and a stronger STAB. However thanks to its typing and above average defenses, if you put his EVs where his purposes lie, he will certainly pull his weight for you in your standard team. In underused matches, he is a force to be reckoned with. </p>

[Counters]

<p>Before going through this, note that Poliwrath is a great fan of carrying Hypnosis and is willing to test it out on anyone who dares to come in. Pack Sleep Talk, absorb it with something else or risk your counter taking a snooze.

<p>Weezing can come in and threaten to Thunderbolt. Claydol is in the same boat, but if Poliwrath is running Ice Punch, Claydol risks a 2HKO. Nidoqueen also does a great job of walling Poliwrath, and EQ will break all but the most defensive of Poliwrath's Substitutes. After a Bulk Up it is difficult to find things that can switch into Poliwrath's Focus Punch, but normal Rotom will only be 2HKOed by Waterfall, and can threaten a Thunderbolt. Depending on whether Poliwrath lacks Rock Slide or Ice Punch, Poliwrath will be missing some coverage. If Poliwrath doesn't have a sub up, it can be easily revenge killed by any faster Grass, Electric, or Poison type.</p>

<p>In Standard, Poliwrath has many more counters. Zapdos can easily take Poliwrath's Ice Punches, and KO with its STABed Electric attacks. Salamence has to worry about Rock Slide and Ice Punch, but Rock Slide is only a 2HKO, so without a Sub up Poliwrath will lose. Cresselia can take Poliwrath's attacks forever. Bulky Waters with Hidden Power Electric can force Poliwrath to give up its Substitute, and Poliwrath cannot Focus Punch in return. Suicune doesn't even need Hidden Power Electric, as the monoattacker can stall out Focus Punch with Pressure. Generally Poliwrath will go down to neutral hits, and it can be easily worn down because it has no recovery. Anything that resists Fighting without being 4x weak to either Rock or Ice will come out on top, as long as you avoid letting Poliwrath set up too many Bulk Ups. Watch out for the Belly Drummer if you see Poliwrath set up a sub.</p>
 

cim

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Physically bulky Tyranitar countering set? The defensive sets are plenty viable, especially because some Tyranitar don't even run a move that can hit you for neutral anymore. He's also an excellent Gyarados counter, immune to Waterfall and resistant to Stone Edge. I'd definitely include one.
 

Colonel M

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If this thing got Close Combat, I'd consider this thing to be excellent. Or even Cross Chop for Bulk Up. Or Superpower. Fuck Gamefreak for screwing over a cool Pokemon. I shall redeem it in standard. Oh well.

I'm also wondering about a set such as this: Rest / Sleep Talk / Bulk Up / Waterfall. Look, it's Swampert with more resistances, a few more weaknesses (probably the bigger downfall unfortunately), but it keeps its Speed. Avoidance of Grass, Electric, Psychic, and Flying are recommended. But yeah, the weaknesses might be the biggest downfall. But the resistances and Water Absorb are definitely appealing. It could pass a little better in standard since Psychic is rare as well as Flying (only real users of it are Skarmory, Togekiss and Shaymin-S. Consistency, by the way). Grass and Electric are the main ones to worry about though.
 
A 252/252 Impish Poliwrath is like, 5HKO'd by Tyranitar's EQ, and can 2HKO a 0/0 Tyranitar back with Brick Break, so I guess you could run a set just to counter any Tyranitar. Gyarados's EQ is a 4HKO, and an unboosted Rock Slide is a 3HKO back, so Poliwrath can't switch in because he'll get outspeed and beaten. Poliwrath can switch in on Waterfall and threaten the 3HKO, so I guess Gyarados and Poliwrath are kinda in a "limbo" of not really being able to do anything to each other. I guess a Defensive set is viable, but it's really only for a very specific set of Pokemon.

EDIT:
For the mono-attacker, I guess my question is, what is that beating that the Sub+Bulk Up set isn't? You need 4 boosts to 2HKO Weezing, five boosts to guarantee the Claydol OHKO, all the other physical walls really get beaten, and Poliwrath is missing out on a lot of quick and easy KO's on frail Fighting-weak Pokemon. Sure Poliwrath gets to stick around longer, but every special grass, electric, flying, or psychic pokemon will break through really easily.

EDIT AGAIN:
Wait Chris, the Sub Puncher or the Sub+Bulk Up sets both can come in on Tyranitar and OHKO anyway, as Poliwrath will outspeed most of them, so I'm not seeing what a more bulky set is adding in the way of Tyranitar countering.

EDIT AGAIN AGAIN:
I added a Solo Bulk Up set to the analysis above, and yea.
 

cim

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I was thinking mayyyybe HP Electric for a 2HKO?

CBTar's EQ I think is a 3-4hko with SS in.
 
I was thinking mayyyybe HP Electric for a 2HKO?

CBTar's EQ I think is a 3-4hko with SS in.
So something like this for Gyarados, TTar, and hell let's throw Salamence in there?

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Hidden Power Electric
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Waterfall / Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
 
Defensive sets aren't viable? They take the most advantage of Poliwrath's nice defensive typing, and nice stats. The Sleep Talk especially works great in UU and OU, and Hypnosis is great on defensive Pokemon.
 

Caelum

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BU set:
With SR up, Poliwrath has an 8% chance of 2HKOing Claydol with Ice Punch, but against Weezing Poliwrath is stuck.
I'm confused why you are using Ice Punch on Claydol when you have STAB Waterfall. I'd pick another target to demonstrate Ice Punch's uses because from the sound of it you are suggesting Ice Punch simply for Claydol.

Solo BU set:
Even Walrein is almost OHKO'd after Stealth Rock with a +1 Brick Break.
The phrasing makes it sound like I should be surprised by this ("even walrein"). I'm not that surprised that something Stealth Rock weak is OHKOed by a +1 Life Orb STAB attack that it is weak too.

Belly Drum set:
<p>Optionally you can use Adamant. You'll get a little more oomph, in trade for a Speed cut-down (358 after Salac Berry). You won't outspeed Raikou, Persian, Weavile and other fast critters without heavy Speed investments though. Make sure your HP is divisible by four though when using Substitute so the Salac Berry activates after three Substitutes.</p>
Your suggested EVs do not yield an HP stat divisible by four. What you really want is :
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 HP

This gives you 320 HP, which is divisible by four.

Other Options:
Haze works against Calm Mind Suicune and not much else, and if Suicune doesn't have Hidden Power Electric, you'll win anyway with Sub+Focus Punch.
I don't think so. A maximum attack Adamant Focus Punch is doing 32% - 38% to 404 HP / 361 Def Suicune. So with Rest / Sleep Talk / Calm Mind / Surf Suicune will beat you and force you to Struggle because of Pressure (unless you get some timely critical hits).

Counters:
Nidoqueen also does a great job of walling Poliwrath, and EQ will break all but the most defensive of Poliwrath's Substitutes.
Nidoqueen doesn't fear STAB Waterfalls?
 
ok, I'll start writing up a Defensive set. I also want to point out that Poliwrath does a pretty good job at resisting most of Sharpedo's attacks. And which Sleep Talk set Katherine, the one in the analysis now?

Also, can someone comment on the Defensive set above? I'm not sure whether or not that moveset is optimal.

EDIT
I'll make those fixes Caelum.
 
A RestTalk/Defensive set is very viable, not only for Tyranitar, but it is also the best (UU) counter to Armaldo (barring max/max Impish Intimidate Hitmontop). I'd say keep the defense, as it is one of the reasons you are using it over the other UU fighters (bulk).
 
I'm going to add this set if no one has any objections or changes:

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Hidden Power Electric
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Hypnosis / Waterfall
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With this set, Poliwrath can come in on its many resists and begin to wear down its opponents. Hidden Power Electric will 2HKO Gyarados, if it doesn't have any Defensive EVs. Ice Punch and Brick Break cover Dragons and any frail Fighting weak Pokemon. Absol's Psycho Cut only has a 1% chance to 2HKO, even with Life Orb, and Poliwrath does 79.70% - 93.73% back with Brick Break, meaning that any residual damage is going to take Absol out. Poliwrath can generally switch into nearly all of its resists, but in general it can only hurt things either 4x weak to its attacks, or things 2x weak if they're frail. Waterfall gives you the chance of 2HKOing Ninetales, which can only 3HKO at best without any boosts, but Hypnosis is a better all-purpose move that is fantastic for any Defensive Poliwrath.</p>
I think since some of you have had success with it, I'll put back the RestTalk set from the analysis.

If any of you have ever used the Choice Band set, it's the one set I didn't playtest, so I just copied it from the analysis. If you have had any success with any variation thereon, tell me, because I don't really know about CBWrath.
 
Rest Talk can go in the other options, but I would make two Defensive sets, one for UU, one for OU.

name: Defensive (UU)
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Hypnosis
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def


---


name: Defensive (OU)
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Brick Break
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Waterfall / Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpA

Brick Break vs. Max HP Tyranitar - 59.90% - 70.54% (2HKO)
Brick Break vs. Weavile - 100% (OHKO)
Ice Punch vs. Max HP / 180 Def Salamence - 43.40% - 51.02% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Ice Punch vs. Salamence - 63.14% - 74.32% (2HKO, possible OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Hidden Power Electric vs. Gyarados - 50.76% - 59.52% (2HKO)
Hidden Power Electric vs. 156 HP Gyarados - 45.41% - 53.24% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)

Bold is actually better, as you still get the needed 2HKOes and OHKOes, while giving the needed power boost to 2HKO Gyarados, which is needed for the set to function as a wall in OU.
 
Salamence can 2HKO with an unboosted Outrage anyway, and Poliwrath can't take a Draco Meteor, so Salamence isn't that important. If Poliwrath doesn't have to switch in, it can take it, but it's not as impressive as the Gyarados calcs.

I'm going to keep RestTalk in the Other Options, and rewrite the EV and Other Options section to accomodate the defensive sets. If I go by what Katherine said (thanks for running the calcs btw), I'll use these two sets

[SET]
name: Defensive (UU)
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With this set, Poliwrath can come in on its many resists and begin to wear down its opponents. Absol's Psycho Cut only has a 1% chance to 2HKO, even with Life Orb, and Poliwrath does 79.70% - 93.73% back with Brick Break, meaning that any residual damage is going to take Absol out. Poliwrath can generally switch into nearly all of its resists, but in general it can only hurt things either 4x weak to its attacks, or things 2x weak if they're frail. Waterfall gives you the chance of 2HKOing Ninetales, which can only 3HKO at best without any boosts, but Hypnosis is a better all-purpose move that is fantastic for any Defensive Poliwrath.</p>

[SET]
name: Defensive (OU)
move 1: Ice Punch
move 2: Brick Break
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Waterfall / Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Poliwrath's unique typing gives it an edge in the standard metagame, resisting Dark, Steel, Rock, Water and Ice, all commonly seen attacking types. Poliwrath can switch into Gyarados and 2HKO most Gyarados with Hidden Power. At best, Gyarados can 3HKO witH EQ if it gets lucky. Tyranitar is in a similar boat, getting 2HKOd by Brick Break. Weavile falls to Brick Break as well. The only attacks by Scizor Poliwrath fears are its +2 Fighting attacks, but Poliwrath cannot do much back to the metallic bug.</p>
 
Surely Relaxed over Bold on the OU based set if you're using both physical and special attacks?
I just went with what Katherine posted, as there were calcs justifying it. I suppose it really doesn't matter, because Poliwrath isn't exactly getting any specific KO's that it suddenly is missing out on, so unless someone gives me a reason, I'm going to keep it Bold. Poliwrath also has a bit of a speed advantage over things like CBTar, so I'd rather preserve that.
 
Might want to mention more than just Absol and Ninetales on the UU set, try mentioning Rain Dance sweepers (very threatening in UU at the moment) and Fighting-types as well as Altaria.

The comments on the OU set are painfully short, so I guess I'll write those up later. o_o;

Edit: Poliwrath needs the Speed for Tyranitar, so Bold.
 
Might want to mention more than just Absol and Ninetales on the UU set, try mentioning Rain Dance sweepers (very threatening in UU at the moment) and Fighting-types as well as Altaria.

The comments on the OU set are painfully short, so I guess I'll write those up later. o_o;

Edit: Poliwrath needs the Speed for Tyranitar, so Bold.
I'll add the Rain Dance, but it is only really the physical sweepers like Kabutops that Poliwrath can take. Gorebyss, Omastar and the lot tend to carry super effective Hidden Powers, and at least these two can 2HKO. Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Primeape all 2HKO with Close Combat, and the rest of the fighters tend to be too defensive for Primeape to beat them, so Poliwrath isn't doing anything against them. I'll throw in a note about how most UU Darks are OHKOd or 2HKOd by Brick Break.
 
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Poliwrath's unique typing gives it an edge in the standard metagame, resisting Dark, Steel, Rock, Water and Ice, all commonly seen attacking types. Poliwrath can switch into Gyarados and 2HKO most Gyarados with Hidden Power. At best, Gyarados can 3HKO witH EQ if it gets lucky. Tyranitar is in a similar boat, getting 2HKOd by Brick Break. Weavile falls to Brick Break as well. The only attacks by Scizor Poliwrath fears are its +2 Fighting attacks, but Poliwrath cannot do much back to the metallic bug. Hypnosis is a good option for a defensive Pokemon, but Waterfall is a decent STAB move that can still damage Rocks and Fire types. In general, Poliwrath can catch most sweepers with a OHKO or 2HKO if Poliwrath can hit them super effective, but its low Attack is very noticeable. You can choose to run Relaxed if you want, but Bold allows it to outrun most Tyranitar, which allows it to get the 2HKO before it is 3HKOd.</p>
Is this a decent addition to the OU Defensive set comments? Also, are you sure it's OHKOed instead of OHKOd?

EDIT: Fixed, Lawman.
 

LonelyNess

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If anyone knows me, I have been playing with Poliwrath for a LONG time, and no set should EVER have Waterfall as its Water STAB option except for the Belly Drum set or Bulk Up set.

Hydro Pump hits all of Poliwrath's UU switchins for more damage.

Steelix / Rotom / Weezing / Claydol are all 2HKOd by Hydro Pump with NO EV INVESTMENT. Waterfall still underdamages it, even with max Atk investment.
 
@Squabbles: Suicune can stay in long enough that Poliwrath is forced to kill itself with Struggle

@LonelyNess:I think that really only changes the Defensive sets, and maybe the Sub Puncher. But you have a point, the EV spreads and natures can remain the same and still get the 2HKOs. I'll mention it in the Set Comments for the Sub Puncher and Solo Bulk Up set, and add it as options on the Defensive sets and the Sub Bulk Up. My problem with adding it directly as an option on the Solo Bulk Up is that Poliwrath really doesn't want to have to take a Thunderbolt or Psychic from Weezing/Claydol before it can get the second Hydro Pump in. Even if they don't KO, they'll still cripple Poliwrath's ability to take Special hits.
 
Ahh, good. I was thinking about Hydro Pump. In OU it hits Skarmory who might be expecting purely physical Poliwrath, and other physical walls who are weaker on their Special side, like Donphan and Hippo. Another reason to use Bold over Impish, too.
 
Small edits and such. Wasn't too sure on some things though so I didn't include them. Probably missed stuff as well.

Focus Punch will always out-damage Rock Slide and Ice Punch unless the opponent is both weak to Rock/Ice and resistant to Fighting.
Not sure if this is necessary to say.

Rock Slide is superior because out of all the pokemon that the second attack will be outdamaging Focus Punch, there are more pokemon that get KO'd by Rock Slide than Ice Punch.
Missing the period at the end. And KO'd to KOed, but we talked about that.

Brick Break may seem pointless when you already have Focus Punch, but it can be handy, for example if you're facing a Dragon Danced Tyranitar, (remove possibly?) where you'll want to go for a quick KO with Brick Break instead of setting up Substitute and Focus Punch.
Focus Punch is only slightly weaker than a super effective Waterfall, and in general Waterfall is an inferior option.
Consider rewording to something like, "Focus Punch is only slightly weaker than a super effective Waterfall anyways, so in general Waterfall is an inferior option.

Substitute prevents slower things from statusing you and helps your prediction, or lack thereof.
Consider changing to "and eases your prediction", though I guess it's fine as is.

After a Bulk Up, Focus Punch does 73-87% against a max HP/Def Steelix, an easy 2HKO, and against a 252 HP/208 Def Impish Shuckle Focus Punch does 48-57%, a very decent chance at a 2HKO,(consdier removing) a 47% chance of a 2HKO without SR.
For things that resist Fighting, such as Weezing and Claydol, Poliwrath can 2HKO with Hydro Pump.
I don't like this wording because it makes it seem like Hydro Pump 2HKOs everything that resists Focus Punch.

but Hypnosis is a better all-purpose move that is fantastic for any defensive Poliwrath.
I think?

At best, Gyarados can 3HKO with Earthquake if it gets lucky.
Had the H capitialized. Also, EQ should be Earthquake.

The only attacks by Scizor Poliwrath fears are its +2 Fighting attacks, but Poliwrath cannot do much back to the metallic bug.
Awkwardly phrased. Try something like, "Poliwrath isn't afraid of any of Scizor's attacks other than +2 Fighting attacks, but it cannot do much back to the metallic bug anyways."

Hypnosis is a good option for a defensive Pokemon, but Waterfall is a decent STAB move that can still damage Rocks (remove) and Fire types.
In general, Poliwrath can catch most sweepers with a OHKO or 2HKO if Poliwrath can hit them super effective, but its low Attack is very noticeable.
Change the second Poliwrath to "it"

In Standard Poliwrath can be successful too. Scizor can only muster up a 2HKO even after a Swords Dance, and most bulky Waters can't touch Poliwrath.
"In the Overused environment" is probably more correct than "In Standard".
 

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