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Porygon-Z (Analysis) [QC 1/3]

QC Rejected [2/3]

Agility is directly outclassed by Reuniclus.

Nasty Plot is very slow, and Chople Berry isn't saving it from OU fighting types. In fact, Terrakion can just switch right in if it pleases. It may be more powerful than Celebi or Mew, but that doesn't mean it will KO more things.
 
Okay, I know this already has rejections on it, but if you're a QC member, please refrain from rejecting this for the time being. Personally, I think the Agility set may have potential and would like to test it. Everything else, I'm afraid to say, should be chucked into the scrap-heap.

Agility is directly outclassed by Reuniclus.
Click to expand...

I think you're forgetting about Download.
 
I personally am I fan of the choice sets. They're some of the most powerful things out there and both have excellent coverage. They may not have that dragon-type STAB other things have, but when it comes down to it, a +1 SpA choice scarf Porygon-Z spamming Tri-Attack is pretty scary. Same goes for Specs with Adaptability. Agility is good, and I have always though NP was decent at best, so I can see where you come from there.
 
Okay, I've gone and tested Porygon-Z and I have quite the mixed bag of feelings towards it. First of all, though, let me say again, that I am rejecting every set except for Agility. I don't like the Choice sets because P-Z is slow, quite frail, does not resist/immune to any entry hazards and is in general outclassed by most other special attackers in the tier (Latios, Jolteon, Hydreigon, Starmie, etc). The Nasty Plot set is too slow, frail and not sweeping anything any time soon.

Now, onto the Agility set. The speed achieved after an Agility is excellent, and along with the Download boost (or not), it is great at cleaning up teams in the end-game... provided you can set up. I found it very difficult to successfully pull off an Agility due to Porygon-Z's lack of bulk and resistances, and even with Wobbuffet support, it was really, really hard. I will accept it on one condition, that you really emphasise on the amount of support this thing needs, all the way down to Encore support, slow U-turns, dual screens and free switch-ins and the like. Things I want to see in AC: Wobbuffet, entry hazards (Ferrothorn, Forretress, Deoxys-D), slow U-turns/Volt Switches (Forretress, bulky Rotom-W, Scizor), dual screens (Azelf, Deoxys-D, Uxie, Cresselia, Latias). You should also mention how much P-Z hates priority, so you want to mention counters to Scizor, Conkeldurr, Dragonite, and the like. Life Orb should be the ONLY item. Also, for the moves, I prefer Dark Pulse and Hidden Power Fighting over Boltbeam, simply due to the super effective coverage you're getting for those Pokemon who can take Tri-Attack (which should be your main attack). So:

[SET]
name: Agility
move 1: Agility (Why do you have an Agility set and Agility is not even the first move o_0)
move 2: Tri-Attack
move 3: Dark Pulse / Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt
ability: Download
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Do these and I'll stamp the Agility set. Everything else can go into OO.
 
Rejecting

QC Rejected 1/3

Yea I tested this, and it needed waaay too much support for my liking. I used it in a few battles, but it never really swept (or impressed me), and was really hard to get in. Scizor sitting on around 30% of all teams ready to stop its sweep also really hurt it, and yea, the amount of support for it to set up, let alone try and sweep, was just too high for me. Sorry.
 
Thanks Shrang, changes made.
@ginga
ginganinja said:
Scizor sitting on around 30% of all teams ready to stop its sweep also really hurt it, and yea, the amount of support for it to set up, let alone try and sweep, was just too high for me.
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Why do you bring up Scizor like that? Besides there being a 70% chance there will be no Scizor, Scizor isn't that hard to beat. Porygon-Z can take a Bullet Punch and OHKO back with some hazard support (although with Thunderbolt), but if Scizor switches in on the Thunderbolt you don't even have to worry about it (still with hazards). To your second point, most things need teammates to set up. Is SubDDnite bad because he needs phazers to be eliminated? Is BulkySD Scizor bad because he has problems with Magnezone? Not at all. Things need teammate support; no sweeper will ever be perfect to just send out and work. It doesn't need a terrible amount either, just a few hazards and you're good to go.
 
Please stop making the Agility set 4 HP / 252 Spe. That's way too much speed and you're losing valuable bulk. Outspeeding +1 positive-natured 110s (188 Spe EVs, neutral nature, by the way) is the most you'll need. Hell, 132 is probably the better conservative estimate, beating Scarf Landorus, who is probably the most common hi-speed Scarfer. If you're worried about Terrakion that much, 176 beats 108s.

Just... For the love of god, stop using 252 Speed on an Agility set when the Pokemon has base 90 speed.

EDIT: And I have used this set in the past, so this isn't theorymon. I don't have that team anymore/don't have any of the replays, but the bulk helps and again, 188 Spe is the most you'll ever want.
 
I'm wondering how much the bulk actually helps. While yes, running 252 Speed on a base 90 Pokemon may seem like a waste after a boost, it has its uses if you can't pull off an Agility. With HP Fighting, you stand at 278 Speed, which lets you tie with Timid Heatran, and this may just save you on the odd occasion (or if you're running Boltbeam, you outspeed it by one point and can finish off a weakened one with Thunderbolt). You also outspeed stuff like Modest Rotom-W that is lacking a Choice Scarf as well, before a boost. The Speed isn't totally useless, there is a reason why Agility Lucario (also a base 90), runs max Speed.
 
I'm with Shrang on this. Unless the bulk saves you from a relevant KO, the lack of unboosted speed just doesn't seem worth it. I'd be swayed by a calc that shows why the extra bulk is worth it, but Porygon-Z is a sweeper, not a bulky set up. It's kinda like how last gen Infernape ran max speed, even though there was nothing else 108. Frail sweepers run max speed because the extra bulk won't help much. The only exception I can see is Weavile, who run bulk because his tier is literally only him and the extra evs help him take a pertinent hit. Basically, I just wanna see what the extra bulk does before jumping to it or throwing it out.
 
JellyOs said:
Thanks Shrang, changes made.
@ginga

Why do you bring up Scizor like that? Besides there being a 70% chance there will be no Scizor, Scizor isn't that hard to beat. Porygon-Z can take a Bullet Punch and OHKO back with some hazard support (although with Thunderbolt), but if Scizor switches in on the Thunderbolt you don't even have to worry about it (still with hazards). To your second point, most things need teammates to set up. Is SubDDnite bad because he needs phazers to be eliminated? Is BulkySD Scizor bad because he has problems with Magnezone? Not at all. Things need teammate support; no sweeper will ever be perfect to just send out and work. It doesn't need a terrible amount either, just a few hazards and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

Don't quote percentages at me, I gave it a test run, and I happened to come across Scizor a lot, sure "you survive" but you are running Life Orb so you don't sweep either. Often, even with all the support I gave it, it would only get a 1 for 1 kill which just was not enough when I could be using something like Lucario (for example) which would do better with all the support I was giving it. You also need Thunderbolt to "beat" Scizor, + hazard support, and the QC team and I already stated that HP Fighting + Dark Pulse is usually better.

Sure, I know things need support, but you are clearly missing my point, its the amount of support it needs to function over other sweepers which makes it so hard to use. I am not alone in this, one QC user regarded it as "just so so borderline" (on whether to accept or reject) so I am not alone her in thoughts with Porygon-Z. Sub DD Nite doesn't really care about phasers btw, when it wins last pokemon (Perish Song Toed however, is more annoying) but Porygon-Z needs, hazards, a Download boost (which is really tricky to always pull off), and encore support, so it can set up with those shitty defences. Even when you set up, you are still royally screwed if they have something like Mach Punch Infernape (which I ran into), Conk, Scizor, CB Nite, SD Lucario which will all pick you off. in some cases, with just a tiny bit of residual damage. In addition, you are worthless against stall, and Balanced teams usually have shit like SDef Jirachi, SDef Tran (which will cripple you with paralysis or can phase you out) or something else I couldn't break though .

Porygon-Z was very much a 1 time thing, I needed to give it all this support for its one chance at sweeping, and if it failed cos it got phased out, then that was that, my chances at getting a second chance were practically zero.

tl:dr

It needs a fuckload of support, if you think its just a few hazards and you are good to go then, (putting it lightly) you are sadly mistaken.
 
I feel like you expect Porygon-Z to be a top tier sweeper (he's not at all). He can sweep, although not perfectly all the time. He's a perfectly usable Pokemon in OU, more so than many Pokemon that have an OU analysis right now. Not everything is going to sweep through teams, just ask Nasty Plot Jynx or Bulk Up Throh. Yes, these things are on-site, and although they're not the best, they can do it. Porygon-Z can sweep, he may not be the best, but he can do it.
 
Just pointing out but this

more so than many Pokemon that have an OU analysis right now.
Click to expand...

Is not why we approve pokemon analysis. Heck, id approve Jynx over this (at least Jynx can sleep something to get that free NP, has excellent speed, and a solid immunity to water attacks commonly found on rain teams. Porygon-Z needs waaay more support than Jynx to function in my experience and I am not approving something which has the argument "hey Jynx and BU Throh can sweep sometimes, so thats why we need a Porygon-Z analysis!!!"

Sorry but im not giving this a stamp at all.
 
I still want to see all the things that I mentioned in AC (All the support that Porygon-Z needs). Since they are probably going to go up anyway, I will:

QC APPROVED 1/3

HOWEVER!

I may just be the only one who thinks that Agility Porygon-Z should get a chance. Like ginga has said, this thing is so borderline that I might have rejected had I a lost a few more games with this thing (and I might just have, if the server wasn't so laggy for me last night). Right now, from what I have seen, P-Z is just really mediocre most of the time, although the times that I have got it to work have admittedly worked beautifully. Consider this a tentative approval for now, but just be warned, that approval may just become a rejection if I get more negative experience with the thing.
 
SDS rejected this on IRC

so

QC REJECTED 3/3

that makes 3 rejections so this can be moved to L&O.

Sorry.
 
simpsons-seizure.gif
 
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