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Porygon-Z (Full Revamp) +
- Thread starter Bourbon
- Start date
Will edit the rest later.Most recent update: some grammar issues, <p> </p> tags
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/porygon-z
[SET]
name: Choice Specs / Scarf
move 1: Tri Attack
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
ability: Download
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 DEF (capitals) / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Porygon-Z's defenses aren't exactly terrible, but due to its lack of resistances, it is best suited to coming in after one of your Pokemon has fainted. The Choice Scarf allows it to be an awesome revenge killer, outrunning (Jolly?Might want mention) Gyarados and Tyranitar after they have Dragon Danced, and of course, other Pokemon such as Shaymin-S, Gengar, Azelf, and more. Choice Specs turns Porygon-Z into a powerhouse, packing 607 SpA, or as much as 910 if you get your Download boost. Use this tremendous power to smash through your opponent's Pokemon until you are walled. Switch out, rinse, and repeat. Modest nature is recommended with Choice Specs as it provides a whopping 54 extra Special Attack points. That, and almost anything switching in will faint regardless of if it outspeeds you or not.</p>
<p>Thunderbolt and Ice Beam allow you to deal with Gyarados and Salamence respectively, while Hidden Power Fighting hits Tyranitar and Heatran hard. Like most special sweepers, Choice Porygon-Z is walled by Blissey. Even with a Download boost and Choice Specs you can only muster 36% with Tri Attack and 43% with Hidden Power Fighting. If you don't like this, than the next set is worth consideration.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice + Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: Tri Attack
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Substitute
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Adaptability
nature: Modest
evs: 4 DEF / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Thanks to the addition of Trick to Porygon-Z's sizable movepool, (removed "now") even special walls should fear it. Blissey isn't terribly threatening anymore if you can Trick the Choice Scarf onto it. Being locked into one move makes Blissey much easier to deal with, as it will no longer be able to use Softboiled effectively, and it will have to choose between attacking you, or trying to status you. Because of this, Substitute is a viable option. If Blissey tries to status Porygon-Z, you now have a free Substitute against a completely helpless Blissey. They either have to let Blissey be killed, or let another Pokemon take two powerful hits from Porygon-Z. The Choice + Trick set is extremely dangerous in the right hands.</p>
<p>Use Hidden Power Fighting and Dark Pulse together to hit all the Pokemon that resist Tri Attack. If you're a little gutsier and are going to go the Substitute route, Hidden Power Fighting can be sacrificed. However, beware of Tyranitar, Heatran, and other sturdy Rocks and Steels. You won't be hitting them too hard. Because you lack Thunderbolt and Ice Beam on this set, Modest is recommended because you won't be able to OHKO Salamence or Gyarados anyways. Outrunning them isn't too big of a deal, and you'll notice the extra punch Modest provides.</p>
[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Subsitute
move 2: Nasty Plot
move 3: Tri Attack
move 4: Hidden Power Water / Dark Pulse
item: Salac Berry
ability: Adaptability
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 128 SpA / 124 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 31 HP / 30 ATK / 30 DEF / 30 SpA / 31 SpD / 31 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The more offensive metagame has forced Porygon-Z to adapt its strategy a bit. Using Nasty Plot, it packs fearsome power, but is open to revenge kills from Scarfed Heatran, Shaymin-S, and Scizor. This set attempts to remedy these issues by using Substitute to block revenge killing attempts, and a Salac Berry to ensure you outrun most enemy Pokemon.</p>
<p>Porygon-Z is a fearsome special attacker, and as such, encourages switches to dedicated special walls. Using this free turn, you have two options. If your opponent has a Blissey, you should Nasty Plot first. This will lead your opponent to believe it is the standard Nasty Plot set, and they will likely attempt to Thunder Wave you. This will allow you to set up a Substitute on them. You can Nasty Plot a second time as they break your Substitute. After two Nasty Plots, you should be able to 2HKO all Blisseys. Most opponents will not Thunder Wave again, thinking you will Substitute. If you play intelligently, you may walk away with a Substitute or even a Salac boost depending on their reaction to your first Tri Attack. Flamethrower/Toxic Blissey has no chance. With the given Special Defense EVs it will take two hits to break one of Porygon-Z's Substitutes with Blissey's special attack of choice (Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, or Ice Beam). Take advantage of this, and you should very easily win the game.(may want to reword that, I don't know)</p>
<p>Against a more offensive opponent, you should Substitute first. When they send in a faster Pokemon, you can Substitute as they break your previous Substitute. Repeat once more, and you will be at one-fourth of your HP (no comma) and have a Salac boost. You will more than likely outrun them, so you can either Nasty Plot, or kill them off, leaving you with +1 Speed and +2 Special Attack, or +1 Speed and a Substitute. Since Scizor is very popular, you should strongly consider keeping your Substitute instead of going for the Nasty Plot. Its Bullet Punch will force you to switch or die if Porygon-Z is caught exposed. Even with only 370 Special Attack, Porygon-Z can do considerable damage to the opponent.</p>
<p>It is difficult to get good type coverage with only two moves. This problem is compounded when your STAB is a Normal type move. However, Tri Attack and Hidden Power Water, while a strange combination, is only walled by Empoleon and Shedinja in OU, who are very rare. Hidden Power Water deals massive damage to Tyranitar, Heatran, and can even OHKO Gengar after a boost with some prior damage. Tri Attack and Dark Pulse work as well, especially if you fear bulky Ghosts like (removed "the new") Rotom Appliances ruining your sweep. Being walled by Tyranitar and Heatran isn't a very good idea, as they are very common, so it is strongly recommended that Hidden Power Water be your choice. The given IVs allow a full power Hidden Power Water, while still giving you full speed IVs.</p>
Rotom (Formes) should be mentioned as an appropriate counter as it resists (or is immune to) all of Porygon-Z's main attacking options barring Ice Beam and Dark Pulse while Rotom can threaten to shut down Porygon-Z with Discharge or stall it out through Rest+Sleep Talk. However, it would be important to note that Rotom would need a significant amount of EV investment in special defense to deal with the Nasty Plot version if it isn't running Dark Pulse.
Download boosts Porygon-Z's attack or special attack depending on which of the opponent's defensive stats is the lowest. If the opposing pokemon has a lower defense than special defense, Porygon-Z's attack stat gets boosted and vice-versa.
I had some problems with your second paragraph in the "Other Options" segment.
This statement is inaccurate. Against 0 HP / 216 SpD (which is about as special-defensive as most Blissey get), Hyper Beam from a Modest Porygon-Z, after Nasty Plot, Adaptability, and Life Orb are taken into account will net 87.56% - 103.23% damage, which always OHKO's Blissey if she switches in with Stealth Rock in play.
Even if your previous statement was true, why would you bother mentioning Hyper Beam in Other Options if it is "no longer of any use"? I agree that Hyper Beam is now Other Options material at best (or mentionable in the set comments for the Nasty Plot set) as its only real purpose is to potentially OHKO Blissey. It is fair to mention that it is no longer a surefire thing due to Blissey running more Special Defense, but that doesn't make the move outright useless.
Presuming you would be using the "Nasty Plot" set, the analysis suggests Timid, in which case would only deal 79.88% - 94.01% under the correct circumstances, I do believe this is what Skiddle meant. However, this is still a 41% chance of a OHKO with Stealth Rock, which should be mentioned. I personally feel Hyper Beam should be in Other Options too, but as you said yourself Bass, it isn't utterly useless.
On the first set, maybe a / Dark Pulse should be added to move four because couldn't Gengar live a Thunderbolt or Ice Beam and retaliate with Focus Blast?
OK OK I haven't died, give me a few minutes here.
I'll remove the bit about Hyper Beam being useless, however, I will keep it as Other Options material. Porygon-Z, in all honesty, NEEDS to be able to hit both Tyranitar and Ghosts, so removing one of his "coverage" attacks for a second Normal move is generally a bad idea. If you remove Tri Attack for Hyper Beam, then you don't have a reliable STAB attack to work with.
I'll put Dark Pulse in the set comments on the first set. With a Download or Specs boost, Ice Beam 2HKOs 252 HP Rotom all the time. Besides, it's a revenge killer. It's supposed to outrun stuff and OHKO with the correct moves, not really worry about being walled. Ice Beam OHKOs Salamence and Dragonite, Thunderbolt OHKOs Gyarados, Hidden Power Fighting OHKOs 6/0 Tyranitar, thanks to Download.
Making the grammar checks that diingbong pointed out too...
I'll remove the bit about Hyper Beam being useless, however, I will keep it as Other Options material. Porygon-Z, in all honesty, NEEDS to be able to hit both Tyranitar and Ghosts, so removing one of his "coverage" attacks for a second Normal move is generally a bad idea. If you remove Tri Attack for Hyper Beam, then you don't have a reliable STAB attack to work with.
I'll put Dark Pulse in the set comments on the first set. With a Download or Specs boost, Ice Beam 2HKOs 252 HP Rotom all the time. Besides, it's a revenge killer. It's supposed to outrun stuff and OHKO with the correct moves, not really worry about being walled. Ice Beam OHKOs Salamence and Dragonite, Thunderbolt OHKOs Gyarados, Hidden Power Fighting OHKOs 6/0 Tyranitar, thanks to Download.
Making the grammar checks that diingbong pointed out too...
Timid Hyper Beam doesn't even OHKO 176 SpD Blissey, doing 80% max, and 216 / 252 versions just laugh. It's like Outrage but shittier.
I don't see what you need THunderbolt or Ice Beam for, it's not like Gyarados or Salamence are going to enjoy Tri Attacks or something. They really seem like "because I can" moves. Ice Beam doesn't even hit the main Normal resist for neutral damage (Steel) so it's not like it's a coverage move for when you're not sure what's coming in.
Don't list an ability on the Specs set as both are viable and with so few switch-in opportunities, I wouldn't mind dependable power.
I don't see what you need THunderbolt or Ice Beam for, it's not like Gyarados or Salamence are going to enjoy Tri Attacks or something. They really seem like "because I can" moves. Ice Beam doesn't even hit the main Normal resist for neutral damage (Steel) so it's not like it's a coverage move for when you're not sure what's coming in.
Don't list an ability on the Specs set as both are viable and with so few switch-in opportunities, I wouldn't mind dependable power.
You should want I split up the Specs and Scarf sets then? That wouldn't be too much of a problem. That would remove some of the slashitis I suppose.
Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are used on the Scarf set because Tri Attack doesn't even OHKO Salamence or Gyarados. Even with Stealth Rock down, 6/0 Salamence has a paltry 15% chance of being OHKOed by Adaptability Tri Attack, and if you win the coin flip and get the Download boost, you have a 79% chance of OHKOing it. 252 HP Salamence just wont die to Tri Attack at all, in fact, it won't even die to a Download boosted one with Stealth Rock down.
Gyarados is even worse, 6/0 Gyarados takes 63% maximum from Adaptability Tri Attack, a pathetic 47% maximum from Download. A 216/0 Gyarados can actually shrug off two Adaptability Tri Attacks without Stealth Rock damage present, and can take two Download Tri Attacks with it.
I'll put the Choice Specs set as Tri Attack / Hidden Power Fighting / Dark Pulse / Hyper Beam and leave the Scarf set with the elemental attacks.
Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are used on the Scarf set because Tri Attack doesn't even OHKO Salamence or Gyarados. Even with Stealth Rock down, 6/0 Salamence has a paltry 15% chance of being OHKOed by Adaptability Tri Attack, and if you win the coin flip and get the Download boost, you have a 79% chance of OHKOing it. 252 HP Salamence just wont die to Tri Attack at all, in fact, it won't even die to a Download boosted one with Stealth Rock down.
Gyarados is even worse, 6/0 Gyarados takes 63% maximum from Adaptability Tri Attack, a pathetic 47% maximum from Download. A 216/0 Gyarados can actually shrug off two Adaptability Tri Attacks without Stealth Rock damage present, and can take two Download Tri Attacks with it.
I'll put the Choice Specs set as Tri Attack / Hidden Power Fighting / Dark Pulse / Hyper Beam and leave the Scarf set with the elemental attacks.
Are you using the same Libelldra Forge damage calculator I am?
6/0 Salamance takes 71.69% - 84.34% from a Choice Scarf Adaptability Tri Attack. That is a 66.67% of you killing it after Stealth Rock. Plus, I don't think we're talking about DD Mence or it would be faster than you at +1 Speed. That means we're likely talking about MixMence, which if you're revenge killing it, has probably taken Life Orb damage anyway.
And now that Garchomp is Uber, and Dragonite's usage is decreasing, I don't think you really need Ice Beam. I'm sure Flygon will be OHKOed too.
Oh, as a matter of fact, Flygon isn't: 78.81% - 92.72%. Stealth Rock makes that big of a difference. Still, many of them are Scarfed or just aren't common enough.
Gyarados is a different story, and so is Thunderbolt altogether. Tri Attack manages 44.40% - 52.59% on max/min Vaporeon. Thunderbolt guaruntees your kill: 53.02% - 62.50%. Thunderbolt also guaruntees you 3HKO max/min +1 Suicune.
6/0 Salamance takes 71.69% - 84.34% from a Choice Scarf Adaptability Tri Attack. That is a 66.67% of you killing it after Stealth Rock. Plus, I don't think we're talking about DD Mence or it would be faster than you at +1 Speed. That means we're likely talking about MixMence, which if you're revenge killing it, has probably taken Life Orb damage anyway.
And now that Garchomp is Uber, and Dragonite's usage is decreasing, I don't think you really need Ice Beam. I'm sure Flygon will be OHKOed too.
Oh, as a matter of fact, Flygon isn't: 78.81% - 92.72%. Stealth Rock makes that big of a difference. Still, many of them are Scarfed or just aren't common enough.
Gyarados is a different story, and so is Thunderbolt altogether. Tri Attack manages 44.40% - 52.59% on max/min Vaporeon. Thunderbolt guaruntees your kill: 53.02% - 62.50%. Thunderbolt also guaruntees you 3HKO max/min +1 Suicune.
You're using a Modest nature, which isn't the one I'm using on the Choice Scarf set. Timid Porygon-Z can actually outrun Salamence after a DD, and Adamant Tyranitar after two.
Plug in 369 attack for Porygon-z, and 196 defense for Salamence, 160 base power, and 331 HP, and you'll get the same results.
Plug in 369 attack for Porygon-z, and 196 defense for Salamence, 160 base power, and 331 HP, and you'll get the same results.
I do agree with Chris, but I want to theory a bit.
If you are going to use Conversion, I think Dark would be a decent type to go with, as it is one of the types that has no immunities. Something like Nasty Plot / Dark Pulse / Conversion / Substitute? Recover? maybe work, but it really is too much set up for something as frail as Porygon-Z.
tl;dr: it's cool but OO.
So it's all moves, regardless of whether they are offensive or support. I'm not sure if it fails if it selects a Normal-type move (for Normal-types); I will ask someone to check it out in-game.
If you are going to use Conversion, I think Dark would be a decent type to go with, as it is one of the types that has no immunities. Something like Nasty Plot / Dark Pulse / Conversion / Substitute? Recover? maybe work, but it really is too much set up for something as frail as Porygon-Z.
tl;dr: it's cool but OO.
I tested it in-game, level 20 Porygon with Agility, Blizzard, Conversion, Recover. It did change to Psychic sometimes, which means it's any move :/
If the Porygon-Z was EVed slightly bulkier than normal it MIGHT work, but it's probably not a good idea. Although, it's most common enemies, Blissey and Scizor, wouldn't be able to touch it, which wouldn't be half bad. I'll look into it. I'm 90% sure that it's other options material unless Porygon-Z's base 85 HP is better than I'm thinking it is.
If the Porygon-Z was EVed slightly bulkier than normal it MIGHT work, but it's probably not a good idea. Although, it's most common enemies, Blissey and Scizor, wouldn't be able to touch it, which wouldn't be half bad. I'll look into it. I'm 90% sure that it's other options material unless Porygon-Z's base 85 HP is better than I'm thinking it is.