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Porygon-Z (QC 1/3)

RotomPoison said:
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts



Well I partially agree but can you show me a concrete example of it being outclassed before it is moved to OO. It's already (going to be) the last set



No. All are played differently and the decision for them to stay or go will be based on if the coverage is in any common situation more important than the versatility.



Lum and LO are obviously good but Sash is just asking to be revenged by any form of priority



No. Dark and Ghost have the exact same coverage outside Dark being weak against Fighting which is irrelevant as Cobalion is 2HKOd by Tri Attack. If it's "not especially necessary" please prove it



Shao is a check at best as it can RK of it hasn't used Agility. Heracross does not outspeed unboosted NP, Scarf, Specs (assuming Timid)



Added to C+C

---

While I obviously do not mind constructive criticizm I feel like the tone of your post was insulting, making it sound like you are rudely demanding rather than suggesting, and that you "know everything" without a better way to word it. Just read the IRC logs for info on Scarf/pure boosting sets.
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Well I'm sorry about my tone.

Scarf doesn't wall break the things it usually does and Mienshao, Flygon, and Darmanitan are much better scarfers whether it's speed tier, coverage, and typing.
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 96-114 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 144-169 (46.1 - 54.1%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 144-170 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 180-212 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 270-318 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 374-442 (119.8 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 248-292 (66.3 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 210-248 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 314-370 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 126-150 (39.3 - 46.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 188-222 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 146-172 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 216-256 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 364-430 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 152-180 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 226-266 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Just shows how weak Scarf is. Faster Scarfers are too common for it to be good anyway.

Well you're are gonna locked into Dark Pulse and that has more resistances.
 
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts said:
Well I'm sorry about my tone.

Scarf doesn't wall break the things it usually does and Mienshao, Flygon, and Darmanitan are much better scarfers whether it's speed tier, coverage, and typing.
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 96-114 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 144-169 (46.1 - 54.1%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 144-170 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 180-212 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 270-318 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 374-442 (119.8 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 248-292 (66.3 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 210-248 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 314-370 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 126-150 (39.3 - 46.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 188-222 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 146-172 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 216-256 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 364-430 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 152-180 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 226-266 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Just shows how weak Scarf is. Faster Scarfers are too common for it to be good anyway.

Well you're are gonna locked into Dark Pulse and that has more resistances.
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Dark pulse has a chance to flinch also these calcs lack modest which is a good nature for scarfed porygon z.
 
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts said:
Well I'm sorry about my tone.

Scarf doesn't wall break the things it usually does and Mienshao, Flygon, and Darmanitan are much better scarfers whether it's speed tier, coverage, and typing.
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 96-114 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 144-169 (46.1 - 54.1%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 144-170 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 180-212 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 270-318 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 374-442 (119.8 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 248-292 (66.3 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 210-248 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 314-370 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 126-150 (39.3 - 46.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 188-222 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 146-172 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 216-256 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 364-430 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 152-180 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 226-266 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Just shows how weak Scarf is. Faster Scarfers are too common for it to be good anyway.

Well you're are gonna locked into Dark Pulse and that has more resistances.
Click to expand...
Scarfed Porygon-Z isn't a wall breaker... it's a revenge killer, making those calcs irrelevant.
 
The NP and Agility sets don't really achive much that the double dancer doesn't tbh. Sure you get an extra coverage move, but Dark+Normal has rediculously good neutral coverage, meaning that the extra coverage isn't required. I'd just leave the analysis as Specs, Double Dancer and Scarf (Specs is better than double dancer imo as the immediate power is so useful seeing how frail PoryZ is.

I personally think Download should be slashed first on the choice sets as the SpA boost is helpful when you are going to be using your coverage moves, but adaptability should stay slashed first on double dancer.
 
I'd add in the mention of the mixed set that sharpen can be used, in addition gravity should be oo and mention that pory z can use thunder and blizzard (super boltbeam) coverage to abuse it or to support the team.
 
Ranger Mike said:
I'd add in the mention of the mixed set that sharpen can be used, in addition gravity should be oo and mention that pory z can use thunder and blizzard (super boltbeam) coverage to abuse it or to support the team.
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Sharpen sets are increadibly bad tbh as PZ's entire physical movepool is Tackle, Return/Frustration, Aerial Ace, Facade, Thief, Giga Impact, Foul Play, Iron Tail, Last Resort, Zen Headbutt Secret Power and Natural Gift. The only half-decent set that I can see there is Return/Frustration, Sharpen, Zen Headbutt and Theif/Aerial Ace, but even then that is pretty terrible coming off of its meagre base 80 attack stat, and it is even more reliant on the boost from Download than the special sets are. If you want to hit from the physical side, it is better off going for Psyshock.
 
Talking of Psyshock, the choice sets should be this:

move 1: Tri Attack
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Psyshock / Thunderbolt
move 4: Trick / Ice Beam
ability: Download / Adaptability
item: Choice [insert clothing here]
evs: 4 Def / 252 Spa / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Do not run Modest. It really isn't fast enough to use it.
 
RotomPoison said:
LeekSlap/ChewyDonutsLum and LO are obviously good but Sash is just asking to be revenged by any form of priority
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Lum Berry is basically useless on PZ. The only thing it is useful for is Paralysis, but if you switch in against Toxic or Will-O or on a Scald burn (all very common occurrences) it is gone, and if you are hit by those you can't be paralyzed anyway. This makes Cheri Berry a better option in this situation (similar to how ChestoRest is better than LumRest on anything not called Trevenant, Tropius or Exeggutor to maximize the chance of it not being burned), but even then it is unreliable. I would put Cheri in OO, but not Lum.
No. Dark and Ghost have the exact same coverage outside Dark being weak against Fighting which is irrelevant as Cobalion is 2HKOd by Tri Attack. If it's "not especially necessary" please prove it
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Ghost has better neutral coverage than Dark Pulse, hitting Fairy-types neutrally. However, I agree with you that Dark Pulse is better as it doesn't leave you unable to hit Normal-types when locked into it, or give them a free switch if you aren't.
 
No need to triple post...

I'm not adding any detail on mixed. It's mixed not physical and even then it's bad and in OO.

I'll probably end up removing Modest.

I'm not so sure about Psyshock honestly. I get it's ok but not that good.

As for Lum/LO/Sash thing: I worded that badly. Not adding Cheri Berry at all.
 
Ok this has been in WIP for a while because I asked for opinions and it got lost so I'll put it up for QC so it can progress, just keep in mind Team Options and Usage Tips are not 100%
 
i know this thread is dead but up the ante for dubdance to 180 (or 176 speed idk) to outspeed scarfnape assuming it doesnt get banned
 
Add Roar Empoleon to counters and Sableye to the list of checks, as I've used both of them to good success to halt an early-game P-Z sweep.

Remove Psychic/Psyshock from OO, it's totally shit.

Add reasoning to Shadow Ball for OO. Basically it's for Cobalion, and maybe one other thing I'm missing?

Ernesto edit: And the bulkiest of mons, Anubis o.O
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Meru said:
Add Roar Empoleon to counters and Sableye to the list of checks, as I've used both of them to good success to halt an early-game P-Z sweep.

Remove Psychic/Psyshock from OO, it's totally shit.

Add reasoning to Shadow Ball for OO. Basically it's for Cobalion, and maybe one other thing I'm missing?
Click to expand...


tbh idet shadow ball should be in oo because it doesn't hit anything else relevant, and it literally does the same amount of damage as adaptability tri attack at +2 lol

+2 252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 258-304 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 258-304 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Maybe also add Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch from Infernape now that it's in the tier

Otherwise QC 1/3 :)!
 
Well this needs a lot of updating. Remove hera mew bro, and uh.. I guess update more to current meta. C&C also formatted wrong..maybe qc will help with this bump.
 
I am bumping this, because P-Z most definitely deserves an analysis

I would also suggest dropping the Download option from the analysis - the extra boost to Tri Attack is so much more consistent and useful that running Download is rarely worth it
 
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