Other Pre-DLC SV Monotype Metagame Discussion

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RoyalReloaded

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Hello, I suppose now is as good a time as any to share something I've been working on with you all. I thought it would be interesting to ask some players who have good ladder / tournament results to create a tier list of how good they think each type is.

I asked the following players to create a tier list:

- ATTRIBUTE
- Starfox
- ArkenCiel
- Ethereal Sword
- azick
- style.css

and I made one myself. if i didn't ask you please don't be offended I was either too shy to ask or thought you wouldn't be interested
ok enough of that here are the rankings:


1.
Dark

The only type to be put in S tier by everyone who made a list. This should not be a surprise to anyone who has played any monotype this gen. Dark has so many great options, dark teams are very customizable. You can add Sableye to have a fighting resist and a spin blocker, Hydreigon to have a ground resist, or even Grimmsnarl for screens support. The pokemon that are mainstays on dark (Chien-Pao, Ting-Lu, Meowscarada, Kingambit, and Greninja) are incredibly powerful in their own ways. The only thing dark is missing is a rapid spin / defog user, which it doesn't look like it will be getting in home. You can't go wrong using a dark team.


2.
Water

Placed in S tier on 6 of the 7 tier lists, next is water. There are a lot of ways to play water, you can use rain with pokemon like Pelipper and swift swim pokemon like Barraskewda and Floatzel, or you can go for a balance / defensive route with pokemon like Dondozo, Gastrodon, Quagsire, Toxapex and Slowking. There are also some other great options for water like Quaquaval to keep off hazards, and Rotom-Wash, Cloyster, and Azumarill to set up and try to sweep. Again, Greninja is great on water teams and is able to provide some great coverage, often opting to not run a water move at all.


3.
Flying

Next is flying. Despite the glaring weakness to Stealth Rock, flying pokemon are able to hold items other than Heavy-Duty Boots because of the longevity or Corviknight. Corviknight is mandatory on all flying teams because of it's excellent defensive prowess, it can take rock and ice type hits that would otherwise be very troublesome for the other team members. Corviknight is also able to use taunt to beat more passive pokemon, can use body press to hit back with its great defense stat, and can even use bulk up to set up, all while stalling PP with it's great ability, pressure. Flying doesn't have as many options as the above 2 types, but it has lots of strong attackers on both side, namely Dragonite and Kilowattrel.


4.
Fairy

Fairy has a lot of incredibly strong options (Mimikyu, Iron Valiant, Azumarill, and Flutter Mane) and it is all glued together by the invaluable spike and screen support from Klefki. The only form of hazard control that fairy has is Hatterene via Magic Bounce, so it is not impossible to keep hazards away, but quite difficult. Fairy does not have a lot of great options beyond the 6 already mentioned, but luckily they do the job quite well. Mold breaker Tinkaton is an option that sees use on some teams, and *sometimes* Grimmsnarl sees use over Klefki, but Klefki is just a better option.


5.
Ghost

Ghost has a very interesting playstyle. Lots of ghost teams utilize spike stack (Froslass is the setter on hyper offensive teams, where Brambleghast appears on more balanced teams, as it has rapid spin to keep hazards off its own side) and Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers as well as applying very valuable chip damage. Hazard removal is very scarce in this gen, rapid spin can't be used on ghost types and defog can't be used against Gholdengo, once the spikes are up, it can be very difficult to get rid of them. Ghost also has several incredibly strong hex users to capitalize on the burn spam, Dragapult and Hisuian Zoroark are all very fast and hit very hard, while Skeledirge is able to tank hits and can deny set up sweepers entirely. Ghost is a great type with a very unique playstyle.


6.
Poison

Poison has a great balance between bulky, defensive pokemon (Toxapex, Amoonguss, Clodsire) and fast, offensive pokemon (Iron Moth, Gengar). Poison also has some great options to help patch up the holes. Haunter can be used to add a ground immunity, Skuntank can be used to add a psychic immunity, and Salazzle can be used to spread Toxic to everything thanks to it's ability. Unfortunately, Poison only has one source of hazard removal, Mortal Spin Glimmora. Glimmora is not particularly defensive and mostly sees play as a toxic debris lead, so it can be tough for the defensive backbones of poison teams to stay healthy without Heavy-Duty Boots.


7.
Ground

My type! I'm a bit biased, but ground is a great type. Ground has access to every hazard other than sticky web, has hazard removal with Iron Treads and Great Tusk, great specially defensive pokemon with Clodsire (which provides a huge water immunity) and Ting-Lu, great physically defensive pokemon with Quagsire (also functions as an unaware wall, very useful) and Gastrodon (acts as a knock-off absorber, huge as well). Ground is a bit limited in the special attacking area, with most teams opting to use Sandy Shocks and some using Garchomp. Ground mainly struggles with substitute flying types, as Quagsire and Clodsire are often without moves to hit them.


8.
Fighting

It shouldn't be a surprise that fighting is a very offensive type, but despite this, fighting has some great defensive options. Great Tusk and Iron Hands are both very bulky and can take a few hits. Fighting really shines in the offensive area, though. Iron Valiant with choice specs hits incredibly hard and provides the fighting type with some much needed special support. Gallade was gifted a new ability, Sharpness, this generation, which boosts the power of all of its slicing moves. With a moveset of Sacred Sword, Psycho Cut, Leaf Blade and Knock Off, all of which are boosted by Sharpness, Gallade is able to use incredibly powerful moves and have lots of coverage while doing so. Breloom is great for putting opponents to sleep via spore and setting up while they are asleep. Another niche option on fighting teams is Pawmot, who can use revival blessing to turn the match into a 7v6 or even 8v6 thanks to Leppa Berry. Pawmot also hits incredibly hard with close combat and double shock.


9.
Steel

Steel has lots of great options. One of the main things that steel has is pokemon that don immunities to what normally would be weaknesses. Gholdengo blocks fighting moves, Corviknight and Orthworm block ground moves, and Iron Treads blocks electric moves, which Corviknight greatly appreciates. I've even seen some people use Heatproof Bronzong to try and mitigate that weakness. Most of the Steel pokemon are quite defensive, slowly making progress through the use of spikes thanks to Klefki, but there are 2 great weapons at Steel's disposal: Gholdengo and Kingambit. No team with Kingambit is truly ever out of the match, the comeback potential is incredible and is further strengthened by Klefki supporting it with spikes and screens.


10.
Psychic

Psyspam has been a great strategy for a long time, but the expanding force distribution nerf hurt a lot. Psychic has 2 great setup sweepers, Espathra, which proved to be too much for OU, and Armarouge, who is the lucky one to keep expanding force. Gallade, Indeedee, and Hatterene are able to fire off very strong psychic attacks without having to spend turns setting up. Psychic only has access to Stealth Rock, thanks to Bronzong, and the only form of removal available is Hatterene with Magic Bounce. Because of this, hazard stack is a very strong strategy when it comes to facing psychic teams.


11.
Fire

The name of the game for fire types is sun. Fire types gained a much needed grass type with the addition of Scovillain. Chlorophyll + Growth makes Scovillain extremely threatening under Sun, as well as giving fire types a more reliable way to hit water types. Torkoal, Cinderace and Talonflame all are good hazard control options, though most fire type pokemon opt to use Heavy-Duty Boots anyway. Tauros and Volcarona are strong setup sweepers, and Skeledirge is a nice physically defensive pokemon. The main problem fire has is switching in to special rock or water moves. Walking Wake kinda just 6-0's fire unfortunately.


12.
Bug

The bug typing is a liability when it comes to defense, more often being a hindrance than not. Forretress and Frosmoth are both decent when it comes to defenses, but without any recovery, they can't stay around for too long. Some bug teams use Masquerain, which can set up sticky webs, while others decide to use Forretress, which can set up Stealth Rock and Spikes, as well as using rapid spin to keep opposing hazards away. Bug is extremely weak to knock off, as losing Heavy-Duty Boots means a lot of damage on the repeated switches that bug often utilizes. Bug has a lot of strong hitters such as Heracross, Slither Wing, Scizor, and Lokix on the physical side, while Volcarona, Frosmoth, and Vivillon can punish unprepared teams on the special side. Bug is an incredibly fun type to use, I would definitely recommend trying it out some time!

13.
Electric

Electric is a very interesting type, some players had it ranked as high as B tier, while others had it ranked in the D tier. Electric has enough ground immunities to make the only weakness a manageable one. Some players opt to use Pincurchin to set up spikes and electric terrain, but others say that activating the opponents Quark Drive is not worth it. Electric does not see a lot of tournament play, but seeing as how flying and water are two of the best types in the metagame, it makes me wonder if people will try it out.


14.
Dragon

Dragon is all gas no brakes. Almost exclusively using offensive threats, Dragon is a type that hits incredibly hard, but does not take hits nearly as well. Baxcalibur, Dragonite, and Roaring Moon are all incredibly powerful physical threats that can wipe out your entire team if you are not careful. The same can be said for Hydreigon and Dragapult on the special side. Garchomp is mainly used for setting up spikes and Stealth Rock, which its teammates greatly appreciate. Cyclizar is used to remove hazards and pass substitutes to the offensive threats via Shed Tail. However, Dragon really suffers on the defensive end. Having a dragon or fairy move on your team and being able to fire them off without risk of taking a super effective hit in return is a huge advantage.

15.
Ice

It shouldn't be a surprise that the worst defensive type in the game is near the bottom. The snow buff helps ice types out a bit, but not enough to where it makes them a top tier threat. The losses ice took were much more impactful than the buffs. Ninetales, Kyurem, Darmanitan and Weavile being a shell of its former self. Froslass is back, and it is used to set up spikes to enable the dangerous sweepers to do their thing. Abomasnow is on all ice teams to set up snow and set aurora veil, which greatly improves the chances of surviving a hit or two. Cetitan is able to ustilize slush rush and belly drum to become a very threatening sweeper, as well as having ice shard in its back pocket for when the snow runs out. Chien-Pao, Cloyster, and Baxcalibur are all incredibly strong set up sweepers as well, but can all be prepared for quite easily.

16.
Grass

Grass was not particularly good last generation, and the dex cuts certainly did not help. Grass is without Rillaboom (and even when it returns, it has already suffered the career ending triple-ACL tear), Cradily to help with fire and flying types, Whimsicott to help with Dragon, and Zarude and Ferrothorn in general. Spikes from Brambleghast, Spore from Breloom and Amoonguss, and Knock Off from Meowscarada can all be annoying, but it just isn't enough. Grass is in a lot of trouble when it comes to certain matchups, namely poison and flying. It is borderline impossible to win these matchups. If grass had it's missing pieces, it still might not be so great, but without them, it is in trouble.

17.
Normal

Normal type has been on the decline ever since Generation 8. The loss of Return, Mega Lopunny, and Z-Conversion Porygon-Z were enough to put the normal type into irrelevancy in Generation 8. Now, normal is without Bewear, Porygon2 and Z, Dubwool, Diggersby, Heliolisk, Obstagoon and Snorlax... yeah. Normal is without a lot of it's best Generation 8 tools. Staraptor is back which is decent I guess? It just isn't enough. Normal's offenses are mediocre at best, Maushold and Staraptor are decent, but not great. Normal isn't even great on the defensive either. Blissey and Chansey are without toxic and teleport, making their jobs a lot harder. Cyclizar has Shed Tail... every time it passes a substitute it almost certainly gets broken in one hit, making it somewhat useless. Hisuian Zoroark was a great addition, but still not enough to put normal anywhere above the bottom 2.

18.
Rock

You might have noticed a trend by now.. the types that weren't great in Generation 8 aren't great in Generation 9. Rock is widely known for the amount of weaknesses it has, especially to common types like water and ground. One may look at the rock type and think that rock may not be such a bad type because of pokemon like Tyranitar or Garganacl. That's... about where the good options end for rock though. Glimmora is good, but extremely frail. Coalossal, Lycanroc and Drednaw are just not able to do enough damage. There is a reason they do not see any usage in OU. The rock type suffers because the pokemon are too easy to knock out and too easy to take hits from. One of the other things that limits the rock type is the extreme lack of options it has. There are currently 9 pokemon ranked on the viability rankings for rock. I've seen people use teams with both glimmet and glimmora, as well as another team with both naclstack and garganacl, that's how desperate the rock players are.

Final Tier List

S = The best choices, lots of different options, great matchups all around
A = Great choices, a good amount of options, good matchups all around
B = Good choices, a fair amount of options, fair matchups all around
C = Decent choices, a lesser amount of options, decent matchups all around
D = Niche choices, hardly any options, losing matchups all around

One of the most important things when it comes to monotype is playing the type that you have the most fun with. I acknowledge that there are types better than the one I use but I still use it because it is the most fun for me and it suits me the best. I have lost to every type more than once, all types are capable of doing something.

I just spent way too long typing all that but I'm very happy to share this with you all. I'm very passionate about monotype this generation, as this is the most fun I've ever had with a tier. I'm having an incredibly fun time playing and learning all about the tier, and I can't wait to sign up for more tournaments and hopefully meet new people. I'd like to thank everyone who filled out a tier list, and I quickly want to note that the list posted above is not their opinion, but rather a combination of all of the tier lists I collected.

Individual tier lists can be found below. Thank you very much for reading!







 

mushamu

God jihyo
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Decided to make a VR for fun because of RoyalReloaded's post and curious as to what other people have to say:
1683957787221.png

S ranks:
Dark:
I was 100% trolling when I said this type is shit in the Monotype room the other day mainly because I was bored (and I do think its overrated in some way in the sense that it's not that much better than the other S ranks), but it's still incredible. This type has no removal but it's not a huge issue because you have hazards bot Ting-Lu, Chien-Pao, and Kingambit which all punish the metagame fairly well as well as just a huge arsenal of incredible Pokemon to use. Dark can really beat anything and most things if you build it correctly, the main cancer matchup you'll run into is probably the Dark mirror itself which depends largely on speed ties and the presence of Lokix. Tyranitar is good for Fire too.

Ghost: The main thing that makes Ghost so good is that it's a team full of 6 spinblockers in a hazard stacking metagame where the main form of removal is Rapid Spin. Aside from that, it has extremely good offensive Pokemon in Flutter Mane, Dragapult, Gholdengo, and Hisuian Zoroark that punish with Spikes from Brambleghast very nicely. The Ghost teams I built in WCOP are ones I really like and they can win against most things/all things. Dark can be a bit hard, but both Dragapult and Mimikyu are good against it. In previous generations, Ghost teams suffered because they didn't have good synergy among their Pokemon, but in this generation a lot of amazing Ghost types that are well rounded got released, removing that issue.

Fairy: Fairy is really good at hazard stacking offense. It can win vs pretty much anything, and Tinkaton is incredibly good as well as Lagging Tail Klefki which is basically a get out of jail free card. Iron Valiant and Flutter Mane can both run customizable sets to beat whatever the builder wants, and Mimikyu is a nice catch-all. Not really much else to be said here, it's a good hazard stacking type and has a good array of offensive Pokemon to make it work.

Flying: Flying was a type that was considered pretty bad at the beginning of the generation but now it has been surging in viability with recent times. As the metagame evolves more around hazard stack, having a type that's completely immune to Spikes gives Flying teams immense viability in the tier. It's a type that has a high skill ceiling and largely depends on the playing ability of the user in terms of gameplanning, but if used correctly then it can string together wins like nothing else. Great Pokemon with amazing synergy and a complete immunity to Spikes puts it up there.

Water: Water is Water in Monotype. The release of Walking Wake + Greninja helped it a lot, and it retains the flexibility it always has. Spikes are a huge issue, but using Surf Quaquaval can help the team remove vs Sableye, or even Tatsugiri + Quaquaval with double Rapid Spin to ensure removal. Choice Scarf Gyarados also patches up a lot of holes with the type. A really good type especially for those with a high building ceiling.

A ranks:
Ground:
Ground is somehow still existent. It has a good matchup against Flying with Sandy Shocks, but it's super prone to hazards, which is why it struggles immensely at the moment. Iron Treads easily gets spinblocked by stuff like Sableye leaving matchups like Dark and Ghost super exploitable. However, it still has a good arsenal of good Pokemon, and the Dark matchup can be outplayed even though not favored usually.

Poison: Poison is super similar to Ground in the sense that it would be really good but the Spikes weakness makes it suffer a lot due to poor removal. Glimmora usually only removes 1 time per match and that makes it very exploitable.

Psychic: Psychic is good, my main thing with it is the lack of good hazard control and a crippling weakness to Dark. Espathra is demonic though, and can win vs anything that doesn't have a Kingambit. Super scary type when used correctly.

Dragon: Dragon is pure offense and sucks at having a defensive backbone. It's very high risk, high reward.

Fighting: Same as Dragon^

Steel: I personally think Steel is really underrated. Scizor, Gholdengo, Klefki, and Kingambit are all threats in their own right, and it can win vs pretty much anything that's not Fire. It can be built in many different ways, and Scizor in particular benefits from Scald being tossed away as it can now shred Water and Ground comfortable with Trailblaze.

I don't have time to elaborate the other ones but I don't think there's much to say about them besides the fact that they're just not that good. I find it kind of notable that I personally don't feel like there's much reason to use anything outside of the big 5 in Dark/Ghost/Fairy/Flying/Water due to how the tier is structured with the types that are worse mainly being filtered through how well they do against hazard stack. Curious as to what other people think.
 
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Neko

When you live for love, how precious life can be
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Bandwagoning into the VR post
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S Ranks:
Frankly there's very little reason to not run these types, unless you're suspicious of getting counter teamed. Even then, you still have breathing room in your composition to not lose to counter team (or counter team your own type, it works too)
Dark: Is honestly dumb. It has everything you want except for entry hazard removal, but even then due to its capability to also stack entry hazards it forces the opponent to also play that "how much Spikes do you want before your defensive swap-ins collapse from the pressure". Chien Pao, Greninja, and Kingambit are extremely good wallbreakers which are supported by Choice Scarf Meowscarada for Speed control, Sableye, Ting-Lu, and Skunktank for defense and Lokix for cteam.
Water: In a meta where defensive pokemon are limited, Water oddly still has a solid defensive backbone in Toxapex + Gastrodon/Quagsire to support wallbreakers like Greninja, Walking Wake, and Gyarados. Quaquaval is a great entry hazard remover due to its utility as a Kingambit check, Dondozo is GSC's Snorlax incarnate, and Rain Water is still decent-ish if you're banking on not encountering Toxapex. Be wary of being too slow though, with all-out-attacker Fluttermane and Sub Kilowattrel being able to take advantage of those.

A Ranks:
Really good types with one minor flaw.
Fairy: Screens coupled with great setup sweepers in Hatterene and Azumarill will always be great, considering the limited amount of defensive swap-ins this gen has. Hatterene also doubles as entry hazard control and takes advantage of the very few Steel-types this meta has to offer. Flutter Mane is still stinky, Iron Valiant is a great cleaner, and Mimikyu is a nice secondary physical setup sweeper. Grimmsnarl and Tinkaton are great miscellaneous team mates to shore up certain matchups, but arent as required.
Ghost: Is primarily carried by the excellent wallbreaking prowess of Gholdengo, Flutter Mane, and Dragapult, backed up by the support of Skeledirge and Brambleghast. Hisui Zoroark is an excellent Illusion user for the type due to its unique immunity and Mimikyu is a great emergency check to Chien-Pao. Not used as much due to Dark's prevalence though.

B Ranks:
Good types that loses to one/two of the above types. Still great in their own right, but have flaws...
Flying: Loses to Chien-Pao primarily, but is redeemed by its immunity to Spikes, which sort of dominates the metagame. Kilowattrel + Dnite isnt bad for a wallbreaking core either, but picking between losing to Flutter Mane or Chien-Pao isn't really cool. Corviknight is also extremely over worked here, and the lack of sturdy Greninja swap-ins hurts.
Ground: Loses to Chien-Pao and Greninja, but is redeemed by its extremely resilient defensive core in Ting-Lu, Clodsire, and Quagsire/Gastrodon. The best thing about this type is that Flutter Mane is the least of your concerns, and Great Tusk, Sandy Socks, and Garchomp are decent in breaking stuff at least. However, this type is pretty slow.
Dragon: Totally not biased Can choose if it wants to lose to Flutter Mane or Chien Pao, but is redeemed by having a decent matchup against the rest of the types not named Dark or Fairy. Dragon Dance Baxcalibur is one of the best setup sweepers to exist, Dragapult, Hydreigon, and Dragonite are great at breaking down walls, Walking Wake and Roaring Moon are both excellent Choiced users, and Cyclizar is quite underexplored.
Fighting: Loses to Flutter Mane, but is redeemed by having a very smelly selection of decent sweepers, provided Toxapex and Skeledirge have been accounted for in team building.
Psychic: Has a tough time with Dark and Ghost being op, but I have a question, where is your Espathra check? :) ASKid679 is the progenitor of the type, and showed how lethal it can be. But then again, Dark is everywhere.

C Ranks:
Are all still usable types, but fall short due to other types/Pokemon being too overwhelming.

Fire is a great type that burns opposing teams to a crisp with its new Chloropyll user in Scovillain, but Flutter Mane, Walking Wake, and Dragapult are death sentences.
Steel is great due to its ability to do setup and go brr, but lacks a Fire immunity and Water resist. Good as Gold also isnt as awesome due to lack of Defog, but Gholdengo is still extremely good for Steel teams. Also, Corviknight, Scizor, and Kingambit are scary.
Ice is a 15-type beater, but the margin of error is too small that one mistake will send you into a tailspin. Choice Band Baxcalibur with Chien-Pao and BD Cetitan cleaning up after it is really good. Use Ice more, fr.
Bug is a great cteam type to the above types, specifically Dark and Fairy, but it sort of struggles with dealing with bulkier types. Its purely offensive too, but it can't take hits at all (in contrast with Dragon and Fighting which still can, at least)
Poison is very overrated Imo, due to its fantastic ability to lose to Kingambit, Greninja, Baxcalibur, and Gholdengo all at once. However, its still sort of great due to it having entry hazard stacking, Toxapex, and Corrosion Glimmora.

D Ranks:
You probably should wait for Home to actually use this types. Probably, out of these four though Normal has the most net gains due to Maushold being quite tricky to handle and Ditto doing Ditto stuff. Rock has Gargnacl which is terribly hard for Flying and non-Greninja Dark teams to face, and Lycanroc isnt half-bad. Grass has Meowscarada and entry hazard stacking, but its just horrible and not even guaranteed to beat Water unless Iron Leaves or Rotom-Mow is ran. Electric has a lot of problems and is slow for some reason.

Thats all for catto, feel free to ask questions and share your thoughts too :blobnom:
 

Dead by Daylight

are we the last living souls
is a Contributor to Smogon
Fire is a great type that burns opposing teams to a crisp with its new Chlorophyll user in Scovillain, but Flutter Mane, Walking Wake, and Dragapult are death sentences.
Just my two cents on Fire:

I am not an expert by any means, but I consider myself one of, if not the most, well-versed in the Fire-type team section. All three 'mons that you mentioned, while big threats, can be handled quite easily. I'll list some counterplay to them below.

Dragapult Counterplay

If physical (usually on Ghost):
Skeledirge walls it basically forever, while Torkoal can work in an emergency.

If special (usually on Dragon):
Dragon as a whole is a terrible MU for Fire, and Specs Dragapult is sometimes a reason why. Just try to chip away at it with Stealth Rock and sacrifice some team members to hopefully clean with Scovillain late game.

Flutter Mane Counterplay

Cinderace lives one Shadow Ball from full and OHKOs back with Pyro Ball, even outside of sun. Scovillain, while not outspeeding, lives Scarfed Shadow Ball from full and OHKOs back with Overheat. Rotom-Heat lives and can deal around 60-70% with Overheat or chip 30% away and go to either Cinderace or Scovillain. The name of the game is to get your threats in using sacrifices and Volt Switch from Rotom-H.

Walking Wake Counterplay

Walking Wake is the hardest to counter for Fire. Pray to the heavens that it isn't Scarf, then use Rotom-Heat and Scovillain to try and kill it.
 
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Just my two cents on Fire:

I am not an expert by any means, but I consider myself one of, if not the most, well-versed in the Fire-type team section. All three 'mons that you mentioned, while big threats, can be handled quite easily. I'll list some counterplay to them below.

Dragapult Counterplay

If physical (usually on Ghost):
Skeledirge walls it basically forever, while Torkoal can work in an emergency.

If special (usually on Dragon):
Dragon as a whole is a terrible MU for Fire, and Specs Dragapult is sometimes a reason why. Just try to chip away at it with Stealth Rock and sacrifice some team members to hopefully clean with Scovillain late game.

Flutter Mane Counterplay

Cinderace lives one Shadow Ball from full and OHKOs back with Pyro Ball, even outside of sun. Scovillain, while not outspeeding, lives Scarfed Shadow Ball from full and OHKOs back with Overheat. Rotom-Heat lives and can deal around 60-70% with Overheat or chip 30% away and go to either Cinderace or Scovillain. The name of the game is to get your threats in using sacrifices and Volt Switch from Rotom-H.

Walking Wake Counterplay

Walking Wake is the hardest to counter for Fire. Pray to the heavens that it isn't Scarf, then use Rotom-Heat and Scovillain to try and kill it.
what if specs mane power gem?
 

Dead by Daylight

are we the last living souls
is a Contributor to Smogon
what if specs mane power gem?
That's the one thing that wins against the rest of the team, but Scovillain still revenge kills in Sun. Also, I think most Flutter Manes don't run that (from my knowledge, they run dual STAB + Psyshock for Poisons and Thunderbolt for Waters and Flyings not named Kilowattrel (I've seen Mystical Fire too.))
 
Hey everyone! I've come up with my own, ungeneric version of Types Tierlists, which accounts mostly tournament play but can also be applied to ladder. I've based myself on data from tournaments (especially team tours such as MWCOP and BLT), which will be further detailed below.



Detailed descriptions by types ranked individually (for the S and A ranked ones); general descriptions for the B, C and D:

1- Water: Probably the most unpopular opinion out there since everyone is ranking Dark as the strongest type in their view. What makes Water rank#1 in my view is its versatility on the builder, which enables it to run a wide variety of different playstyles ranging from incredible defensive Pokemon (Dondozo, Toxapex, Gastrodon, Quagsire, Slowking) to many powerful offensive Pokemon as well (Greninja, Quaquaval, Gyarados, Swift Swim abusers and such) without ever handicapping itself. It has access to reliable tools to deal with common trends of the metagame, which includes hazard stacking and hazard removal, access to Pokemon with Unaware and Regenerator, and more importantly, it does not get hard countered by any other of the top tier relevant types, being able to comfortably handle types like Dark and Ghost and even having some favorable matchups against types like Ground. In tournament perspective it displays a very large game count and winrate (35 uses for MWCOP with a winrate of 57%, and 24 uses for BLT with a winrate of 54%). A winrate above 50% with a large game count and with mirror accountability shows that Water has had the best tournament performance, and if we don't account mirrors then we should expect a number going further up, something that doesn't exactly happen to Dark here. Sure numbers don't always give us certainty about which type is better because whoever playing them matters but overall I think Water is pretty solid even in theory and has more possibilities than Dark in the builder so it is the best type in the meta in my opinion.

2- Ghost: Not as solid as Water in usage and winrate terms but I really like its access to generally very powerful Pokemon which includes stuff like Gholdengo, Flutter Mane and Dragapult. You basically have a type that's entirely immune to rapid spin and gholdengo blocks removal with Defog too which further increases the offensive potential this team has. It also has decent team versatility with Pokemon like Skeledirge which offer great defensive utility with Unaware and reliable recovery, Brambleghast to spin hazards and to provide decent damage output to Water and Ground teams w/ Power Whip, and finally, one of the best matchup charts in general as well whichs probably the main reason id rank it #2. Dark is expected to be the harder matchup here but its still winnable and there isnt anything else you would probably worry a ton about either. Ghost had 14 uses in BLT and 16 uses in MWCOP, both w/ the same 50% winrate.

3- Flying: Another unpopular opinion, but what makes Flying so good is how underrated it is and how well it can perform against the common Dark and Water builds. Scrappy Flamigo can also be incredible annoying for Ghost teams as it can force Gholdengo out with Close Combat, or just safely pivot w/ U-turn. As Flying you are also pretty much immune to Spikes which is great on a hazard stacking meta, and more importantly, it has low accountability in tournament play given how inconsistent types like Electric and Rock are in the current meta. Access to Corviknight also gives it common answers to threats like Chien Pao, as well as a fantastic defensive pivot in general which can bring in safely very offensive mons like Dragonite, Flamigo and Killowattrel. It had very high winrate both in MWCOP and BLT, displaying a 59% winrate with a 22 game count on the former and a 77% winrate within 13 games on the latter, thus displaying its potential to win games despite its higher skill ceiling in comparison to Water and Ghost.

4- Dark: Strong type although overrated, it has access to very powerful offensive core in Chien-Pao, Greninja and Meowscarada as well as great defensive Pokemon in Ting-Lu, basically enabling hazard stacking and therefore making it for one of the strongest offensive types in the meta. Sadly most people considering it #1 makes it very high accountable for when teambuilding in tour play, which is further justified by a below-average winrate, even w/ a very high game count. If we were to exclude mirror matches we could expect a winrate which's even lower than the 45,8% and the 47,6% displayed both in MWCOP and BLT, respectively. The fact it doesnt have reliable countermeasures to deal with opposing hazard stacking also generally tends to be a problem in comparison to the types ranked above, so I ranked it #4. Still a very strong type and that has a decent matchup chart which is skewed towards its advantage if u don't get stuff like fairy for example, but I personally think its overrated and high accountability types are usually something you have to think about before picking your choice on the blind.

5- Ground: This type is overall very solid as it has access to hazard stacking, Pokemon such as Ting-Lu, Great Tusk and Clodsire which can hazard stack, rapid spin and tspikes removal, respectively. It also has tools to deal with annoying water moves through Water Absorb, and Iron Treads can help with Grass and Ice moves as well. I decided it to rank it #5 mostly due to the matchup chart because bringing it against Water and Dark can be hell, but other than that, it has great performance with the right preparation and accountability. The tournament statistics further confirms this, with a 62,5% winrate across 16 games in mwcop, but not so many uses in BLT (only 7, but still w/ a high 71,4% winrate). Not gonna add that much here because i pretty much agree w/ most of what other people addressed so yea.

6- Poison: Despite its controversial tournament performance I really think Poison has an underrated defensive core, which tends to be very good against common types such as Ghost and Fairy. It does have poor removal as some people mentioned it above which hinders it from performing too well. Regardless, Clodsire + Amoonguss + Toxapex is no joke and can be a pain to deal with if you are not prepared or lack in stallbreakers.
41% winrate across 17 games in mwcop and 60% winrate across 10 games in BLT makes me conclude it has most to do with prep circumstances and players involved, but decent game count in both as well as it being underrated material would deservedly make me rank it #6.

7- Fairy: I remember Fairy being one of the most spammed types in the beginning of SV generation, along with Dark, thus making it another overrated type in my perspective. Despite having access to screens setting and hazard stacking, it struggles with hazard removal, so it has to rely on hatterene every time to keep hazards off the field. A layer of toxic spikes can also really hinder fairy teams as it chips its offensive Pokemon and put them into range of being KO by attacks such as Ice Shard and other common priority moves. It has reasonably high accountability for tours whichs also puts it in a bad spot in terms of picking this type, thus justifying a very low winrate of 26% across 19 games in BLT, as well as a poor 46% winrate across 26 games in mwcop. It has very strong Pokemon such as Flutter Mane, which further performs well through screens support and spikes stacking, though, but its flaws basically makes me give it a lower rank (#7) in comparison to what everyone's been giving.

B ranked types (Fighting, Fire, Bug, Steel, Grass): Types ranked in here can basically perform well within the right circumstances and prep but are not very reliable in terms of matchup charts or options available on the build. Maybe Fighting is the exception type here as it could be ranked a little higher along the lines of Fairy and Poison, even displaying good stats in tournament play on the top of that (game count of 18 w/ 55,5% winrate in MWCOP). Fighting also does well against common meta trends like Water, Ground and Dark, so its really in-between B and A ranks. Not going to comment much on everything else because I believe they can perform well but there just isn't a strong data (game count) that justifies heavily picking for them, so they have mid-viability. Some of you might question Grass as a #12 in my chart and might even think of it as biased, but I do consider it as an interesting anti meta option, especially as one of the few ways to handle Water comfortably and also displays decent performance against Ground, without not necessarily autolosing to most top meta types. Sadly it doesnt have access to that many strong options outside of Meowscarada whichs worth mentioning.

C ranked types (Ice, Psychic, Rock, Electric): I decided to put in C rank the types that are very limited and restricted to niche preparations in general. None of the types posted here had outstanding performance in tours so I am not going to comment much, but Ice has some useful tools such as Freeze Dry Cryogonal and Glaceon which had been featured in tours for the Water matchup, while also being able to perform well vs Ground and the underrated Flying, so I ranked it a little higher than the rest. Psychic also has some fishy tools to go for, but it heavily struggles against Dark and Ghost and therefore is a very risky option to pick for a tour. Electric and Rock are super limited on whats good for them but they have access to mons like Bellibolt and Garganacl, respectively, along with not so bad support options which can enable their uses, but even then they are generally risky choices and form cores that are weak.

D rank (Dragon, Normal): Made of types that I believe that should never be picked under any circumstances. Dragon surprisingly was picked 5 times in mwcop and surprisingly managed to win 2 of 5 times, and that was 100% because of the merit of whoever was playing them (I checked in the spreadsheet that both of the 2 players are actually good ones), so even with that, it still has a negative winrate. Unlike previous gens in which Dragon has been historically a good type, it sadly does not have that much going for this one, struggling against nearly all the top types types and even against some of the mid ones. Normal manages to be the worst type in the game and is a general consensus of the community to agree with this, as it was the only one type to never get picked in any of the two tournaments across so many games.


Really cool to share my ideas with you all. Please keep in mind most Type VRs are subjective anyways, but those are my views based with tour data ive gathered from team tours.
 
Power Gem Flutter vs Fire is almost as bad as scarf wake. Very little can tank a hit. If you use skeldirge, you have to rely on tauros to finish it off. Otherwise, you have to run LO/Band shadow sneak ceruledge or shas shadow claw.
 

Dead by Daylight

are we the last living souls
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Power Gem Flutter vs Fire is almost as bad as scarf wake. Very little can tank a hit. If you use skeldirge, you have to rely on tauros to finish it off. Otherwise, you have to run LO/Band shadow sneak ceruledge or shas shadow claw.
The issue is not many Fire builds run Tauros-P-B + Skeledirge, as both are physical walls that do nearly the same thing (Dirge is more passive but lasts way longer), and Ceruledge is relatively uncommon to my knowledge. (Can't find definitive usage stats rn, if someone could give me them that would be great)
 
Since Gamefreak decided to delay Pokemon Home, to pass my time, I decided to make a prediction as to how the meta will roughly look like. However based on the uncertainty of certain things, I have make a few assumptions.

1. Melmetal(this seems confirmed) is comming back, so is every pokemon with the unreleased tag on pokemon showdown
2. All pokemon that weren't banned in SS will be assumed to not be banned in this ranking
3. All pokemon that have been banned so far and pokemon that have been banned in SS will be treated as banned in this ranking
4. Even though it seems we can transfer pokemon with certain moves kept, I will make the assumption that everything that used to be thought as lost remains lost. For example, toxapex lost knock off and scald in SV so I will assume it stays that way for this ranking. Based on this document: Home_Pokemon, the "movepool returning" section will be treated as moves lost.

Also, I would like to thank Neko and Astro Crossheart for helping me make this ranking. Huge props on them.

Without further ado, here is my ranking.

:landorus-therian: 1.Flying :zapdos-galar:
Flying lost a tremendous amount of pokemon from SS to SV and now it has most of it back. The only difference between SS flying and SV flying is that your steel type is forced into being corv, which is fine but losing celesteela remains a problem. the highlight, as ususal, goes to landorus-t. No longer would you have to rely on a frail kilowatrel and dragonite to be your only electric immunity. Now, you have access to thundurus and landorus therian. This is compounded further by zapdos-g and tornadus-t joining. With flying as good as it is without those pokemon in SV, after home, flying will return to prominence with its boots spam and immunity to most entry hazards.

:moltres-galar: 2.Dark :Hoopa-Unbound:
The question with dark is why did it lose its number 1 spot. This is possibly the most contested ranking as, to be honest, both of these types deserve the number 1 spot. The main reason I ended up choosing flying #1 is because the only thing left to consider was the matchup against flying. This is where the debate began. Although it seems like nothing on flying switched into chien-pao, dark still has the problem of being forced to spam boots as it has no hazard removal. This means a corv lead is often not desirable as banded chien pao can break flying but is weak to rocks, but running boots mean you no longer have the ability to instantly threaten corv. Overall, because of dark's immense hazard weakness, I decided to place it at #2.

:Heatran: 3.Steel :Melmetal:
With melm's presence and heatran returning, it seems as though steel is going to get back to #2 like in SS but herein likes the greatest problem, ferrothorn. Ferro shares a similar roles FROM A TYPING PERSPECTIVE to hisuian goodra. However, although goodra has more coverage, it doesn't have two things that ferro has, spikes and leech seed. So problem with steel is what I like to call the "6 pokemon syndrome." In order to use spikes, you have to run one of foretress, orthworm, or klefki(magearna is treated as banned). Foretress is a terrible waste of a team slot, klefki just has no purpose and steel would rather run tinkaton but even that is not too viable on steel. This means orthworm is the only reliable spiker steel has access to. Not only does it set up both spikes and steath rocks, but it also has an ability that actual counter gravity on ground. This is where the problem comes, you don't have enough team slots. You need to run the core(3 pokemon), treads(for speed control), and goodra-h for the spdef. Now you are left with one slot and you have to pick between melm, gambit, orthworm, scizor, etc. imo the best option is melm but that means you don't get to spike. All things said, steel is always going to be steel as long as the core exist. Even though they removed 2 steel birds, and remove aegislash, they replaced it with gholdengo and somehow left corv in. We know how obscene this core was back in SS so hopefully, with more limited options, steel can become a good but manageable type.

:Samurott-hisui: 4.Water :urshifu-rapid-strike:
Just like steel always being steel as long as the core stays, water will always be water as long as a water ground exist. Most people can probably understand why water is here. Gren will always be gren, and peli + swift swim barras/other swift swim mons will always be great. In addition, water gets access to reliable spikes and offensive pokemon samurott-h. Sharpness boosted razor shells and ceaseless edges, with the utility of knock off, it looks to be a staple. But, it gets even better. Urshifu rapid got swords dance and punching gloves. Not only is it harder to check as after one sd, most pokemon die in front of rain boosted surging strikes. You can't use rocky helmet/rough skin to check it, punching glove ignores it. This means behind a sub, you can freely fire off attacks on pokemon with flame body and static. Although ursh-rapid might get banned, I don't think it's likely and water stays up at the top.

:spectrier: 5.Ghost :basculegion-f:
Ghost got spectier which has draining kiss and psychic. I don't want to gas up this type too much but spectrier + flutter mane sounds likes cancer. This is bolstered by the zoro-h running sub will o hex and hiding as spectrier makes ghost insanely good. However, similar too steel, it has "6 pokemon syndrome." Pult, mane, specs, dengo and zoro-h are mandatory, so you have 1 slot to pick between mimikyu(disguise + priority), skeledirge(defensively utility) and brambleghast(spikes and rapid spin). Although dirge is imo the best option, not running mimi/ghast is a notable weakness.

:sneasler: 6.Fighting :decidueye-hisui:
To quote crossheart, "sneasler is funny pokemon." This sums up fighting pretty decently. Sneasler is huge. It's signature move is the most broken garbage I have even seen. The number of times in room tours I used this thing and it helped me win a fight I had no business winning is insance. Next is hisuian decidueye. After long debates, I determined that this is the superior grass fighting on fighting over breloom and lillig-h. The main reason is the breloom and lillig-h can't touch dengo and because of scrappy, it actually threatens it. The loss of spore is pretty bad but the signature move of this pokemon is also, like snealser, very busted. Not only that, you have succer punch and shadow sneak to hurt faster pokemon. It has swords dance. Overall, a great for fighting.

:landorus-therian: 7.Ground :ursaluna:
Ground got landorus. End of story. Alright, on a serious note, lando-t comming back is huge. Ground started the generation as one of the best types along side dark but slowly, its usage and win rate started to dwindle. The main reason that the balance playstyle becomes very weak to ice spam and as royalreloaded mentioned, gastrodon, clodsire, and quagsire often struggle to hurt certain flying types setting up behind a sub. What lando and ursaluna does is that it allows ground to pursue a much more hyper offense playstyle. With the rise of gravity sandy shocks, gravity HO like in SS might be comming back.

:goodra-hisui: 8.Dragon :regidrago:
Hisuian goodra solved every problem dragon had. Problem with flutter mane? Goodra-h covers. In fact with assault vest, you only need max hp to be out of SPECS moonblast 2hko range and retaliate with heavy slam(in fact, max hp av only does 30 to 36), and unlike draglage, you who can't ohko mane, and need assault vest and absolute max spdef investment to be in 3hko range. Not only that, you cover specs ice beam from gren, as well as a bunch of ice type attacks from various pokemon. In gren's case, max spa gives you an ohko with thunderbolt. In fact the only pokemon with ice coverage that threatens you from the special side are the water grounds. In addition, sap sipper blocks spore and the steel type blocks toxic. I think this pokemon alone brought life to dragon who is STRUGGLING right now.

:enamorus: 9.Fairy :enamorus-therian:
I actually don't have much to say about fairy. It gained enamorous which a lot of fairy teams in home room tours didn't even run it. Contrary superpower sounds funny but is too niche. You are better off run calm mind with cute charm. You might want to use diancie, but fairy needs its other members to function so diancie doesn't really have a spot. However, SR is nice you can run klefki over tinkaton. So all it all fairy is great, but the other types just got a lot of buffs so as a result, it's power level stays roughly the same why the meta as a whole got stronger. Mane and Valiant are well, still mane and valiant.

:regieleki: 10.Electric :zapdos:
This is just seems electric without koko and e-terrain. Zapdos is back, eleki is back and finally a good hazard remover for electric. Goodbye oricorio. We got iron hands and pawmot over zeraora, basically the same but with ice punch to hit lando-t. Electric was really strong in SS in part because koko could the terrain boost to alola raichu and other offensive pokemon and reliably get them in with fast volt switch and uturn as well as be a check to the dragon type. Now the e-terrain setter is pincurchin which is much worse at its job than koko. Without the terrain, electric lost a lot of the explosive power it had and it has a much worse time against dragons.

:kleavor: 11.Bug :kleavor:
Just like how goodra-h saved dragon, kleavor saved bug. Bug is not a good type, but kleavor alone makes the type SIGNIFICANTLY better than before. Before, ghost could reliably solo bug with just a skeledirge. The main reason is that lokix needs band to actually threaten it and if dirge hits the will o wisp, it's over as it just slack off an slowly kill you with either hex/shadow ball. With Kleavor, you have to do this twice with dirge which gives bug a lot more wiggle room. Not only that, kleavor makes flying and fire more manageable(although the MU is still pretty bad). WyvernKing kept preaching kleavor saved bug. Although it doesn't save the type really, it did pull it out of the gutter which is huge.

:volcanion: 12.Fire :moltres:
Fire gained volcanion and moltres. Even though moltres can't threaten pokemon like tran with scorching sands anymore, it can just uturn on it. Then there is volcanion, which helps a lot against water moves. However, fire is still pretty bad. Volcanion and moltres doesn't add enough. If we look at the top types, the only one it reliably beats is steel. The others it kinda beats or flat out loses. Fire still lacks a pokemon that can reliably beat fairies. It lost victini a huge nuke that helped in that department. In fact, steel stands even more of a chance than SS at beating fire which says a lot as to how bad it got. Then for those who asks about arcanine-h, here is me and Crossheart concluded: it's does help fire deal with its bad matchups at all. Almost every type has a ground/steel/fighting type and a dragon/water type. This means arcanine serves no purpose on fire.

:mew: 13.Psychic :slowking-galar:
With dark, ghost, and steel this good, psychic is not going anywhere. Without victini, you have no reliable way to beat pokemon like kingambit, as well as bug types. Mew and glowking are both huge, one is the best stall breaker imaginable and the other is an amazing special wall. Although the lake trio's signature sounds awesome, most types run a dark type which is doesn't help. This is worsened by the fact that you have to use
indeedee over tapu lele which is terrible.

:ursaluna: 14.Normal :meloetta:
it gained ursaluna which sounds great but in practice it doesn't matter too much. It's just too slow. In fact, this is just kingambit(same speed) but with slightly worse defensive typing and much easier to where down because you are burned. Don't get me wrong, this is an amazing wallbreaker for normal, but it's just not enough at all. We've seen how normal does even with zoro-h, so with the tremendous power creep, normal just can't cut.

:slowking-galar: 15.Poison :Overqwil:
This is possibly out more controversial placement. Posion is just too exploitable. The only hazard remover being glimmora is really sad because not only does steel block it, but it's a frail offensive mon that dies very quickly. Now let's look at the new pokemon added(those that matter). We have overquill, muk-a, glowking. That's it. Many might say sneasler but poison teams I ran into never ran it. It's obvious to see why. Poison is a very defensive type that often runs semi stall/balance. Plus, sneasler needs a lot of support to function well. It gets it all in fighting but not on poison. So, looking at the viable options, glowking is now a staple, and overquil and muk-a don't really work as neither have succer punch and although muk-a has knock off. It's just not enough. This type is one that is hurt by the stall nerf the most as in SS, that's what made it outrageously hard to deal with. Triple regen core(which it still has) + defog skuntank povided poison with insane longevity. Right now, its hazard removal option is terrible, recovery pp is halved, most pokemon especially toxapex losing knock off severely limits its ability to stall out the opponent enough where a cleaner can finish the job.

:glastrier: 16.Ice :avalugg-hisui:
I will keep this one short. Ice was bad with chien-pao. Home does not give it any better pokemon. Therefore it will stay bad. the only reason it's not last is because chien pao by itself carries the type. Without it, ice is worse type in mono, no question.

:arcanine-hisui: 17.Rock :kleavor:
Arcanine-hisui and kleavor and the only noteworthy addition. Kleavor helps you against dark and arcanine-h helps you against steel. However, problems are still problems. The type has too many weaknesses like fighting, steel, grass, and especially water which neither additions actually help beat. The only reason it rose above grass is that it did gain access to pokemon that will help them against bad matchups. However, even though kleavor helps set up rocks, rock type pokemon already do that well witth things like ttar. All is all, just like royalreloaded said, the type lacks options and "all the pokemon available are easy to knock out and easy to switch into." Perhaps the only somewhat of an exception is arcanine-h which isn't enough at all.

:rillaboom: 18.Grass :lilligant-hisui:
Getting rilaboom is great but the nerfs hurts it too much. Hisuian liligant also helps the type sweep more easily. Hisuian electrode helps a lot against the birds trying to wall the type. zarude is nice but meoscarada is almostalways better. However, no ferrothorn, and to an extent cradily, is still the largest problem. In SS, grass was an amazing anti-meta type as it beat water and ground really well and could hold its own against steel. Now, without ferro and with the rillaboom nerf, it can do none of that. The loss of cradily remove the only pokemon that helped against fire pokemon. With all this, grass, even though is my favorite type, if unfortunately the worst as well.


Overall, here is my tier list. I will not include Astro Crossheart and Neko's because they very much so resemble mine.
1685118387015.png


S+: The best of the best, virtually no weaknesses, tons of options
S: Very strong, typically has one exact flaw that can be played around, plenty of strong options
A: Great, has a few weaknesses that can be managed, decent number of options
B: Good, but could be better, has barely enough options to survive
C: Meh, has a few weaknesses which are very hard to play around, missing a few options
F: Bad, has too many weaknesses and losing matchups, have multiple flaws which are borderline impossible to play around, lack options in general

The whole point of monotype is to have fun. If you can dominate with a lower tier type, that's absolutely great. However fair warning, this is a prediction before the meta actually develops, so a lot of things might be wrong. However, I hope you enjoyed.

Thank you for reading.
 

Neko

When you live for love, how precious life can be
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No transfer moves are coming back. This means:
  • No Scald (rip Toxapex)
  • No Defog on Dark, still (though Screens Dark will become prevalent, due to Goltres, Urshifu-R most likely)
  • No Scale Shot Garchomp, Roost Staraptor/Scizor (lol), Rising Voltage (Regieleki / Alolachu is sad), Expanding Force, Flip Turn (Barra and Dragalge is sad), Triple Axel (Rip Weavile), Defog on a truck ton of mons.
  • Rillaboom is very neutered due to it losing GGlide, SuperPower, and HHP (as if Grass needed more nerfs..)
  • Very limited Knock Off usage (Lando has to make-do with Crunchies)
I hope we all enjoy the HOME metagame :blobnom:
 
I agree with some of the points above. I've played ice for years now(since XY) this is probably the worst position the type's ever been in relative to competition. At its worst over the years you had to deal with maybe one or two heliocentric threats(scizor/m-sciz, magearna, terrakion, etc...). This metagame easily has the most threats with the least amount of counterplay options available. Lack of ice water coverage as no iron bundle(forced to use cloyster). No access to alolatails and mamo. Worst of all reintroduction of magearna, massive buffs all over the board for fighting, steel resurgance with more viable options and a lot worse neutral matchups as other types just gained more from the home update. Will probably be relatively unusable outside of the fact that it is strong against flying.
 
I agree with some of the points above. I've played ice for years now(since XY) this is probably the worst position the type's ever been in relative to competition. At its worst over the years you had to deal with maybe one or two heliocentric threats(scizor/m-sciz, magearna, terrakion, etc...). This metagame easily has the most threats with the least amount of counterplay options available. Lack of ice water coverage as no iron bundle(forced to use cloyster). No access to alolatails and mamo. Worst of all reintroduction of magearna, massive buffs all over the board for fighting, steel resurgance with more viable options and a lot worse neutral matchups as other types just gained more from the home update. Will probably be relatively unusable outside of the fact that it is strong against flying.
Chien Pao’s back must be aching from carrying Ice this gen.
 
I want to talk about Hisuigant for a second.
Miracle Worker (Lilligant-Hisui) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Victory Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Ice Spinner

Grass didn't get much better with the release of Home. Rillaboom lost all of its fancy tools and as such is little more than a terrain setter, Zarude is definitely interesting but competes very actively with Meowscarada for a teamslot--a terrible position to be in, considering how amazing Meowscarada is. But there's one final (relevant) mon that we got from home, and it's this bad girl. Victory Dance is a dumb move, as you'd expect with a physical quiver dance, Ice Spinner is rare flying coverage on mono grass, and it's just fast enough to, at +1, outspeed most unboosted threats.
Prefer Hustle over Chlorophyll as you're not beating fire (the inevitable crocodile) and I'm also a dirty gambler who loves leaving her games up to chance, and prefer Sash because it's just so useful for getting that paramount single boost.
She's flawed for sure but with her as an available option I actually have fun playing Mono Grass, which never happened pre-home. Good mon, give it a try sometime.
 
Quick thoughts after a day with home bug.
Might make a vid on building bug with Kleavor but in alot of ways bug feels a bit more awkward than it was before. If you want to build with Lokix + Kleavor, you usually end up with 5 physical attackers + Volc, which is a build I'd never been a fan of for bug. Not a whole lot of secondary special options right now but 5 physical attackers opens up issues, especially vs. bulk up attackers for example. I see potential in the type but might end up running some funny shenanigans soon to figure out what works best in the new meta.

:Kleavor: Bug/Rock is super useful, as a mon that can threaten both flying and fire types. Scarf seemed like an obvious go to, and I never felt tempted to do Sticky Web bug Pre Home, though Webs Masquerain + Scarf Kleavor is something I'll want to try out at some point soon. Doubt it'll be reliable for every matchup but sounds super fun v. the likes of fire. Assault Vest is another item I'd been playing with, max attack and split speed + special d evs. 1 of the issues with Kleavor is the longevity issues it had before, it's difficulty in bringing in for a couple of matchups, and especially since it's a mon you'd want to make use of with Stone Axe I'd been playing around with a few diff things. AV defs is viable though just from quick play tests with it, not as threatening in the fire matchup but helps for sure in some other matchups like Flying as an answer to mons such as Tornadus. Not to mention but with U Turn it makes a pretty neat pivot, rocks up and turn out of there.

:Frosmoth: Wanted to make a quick Frosmoth post too, honestly it feels alot easier to fit onto bug right now than at any other point that I can remember. The Bug Mirror with it usually is hot trash, and obviously it's not helping with Fire, but especially since bug has mon now to help with Fire (Kleavor), Frosmoth is able to shine a bit more for the matchups it does best in. Poison, Water, Flying - especially Flying as it's one of the best answers to Lando -I right now.

Gonna play more at some point later/maybe tomorrow but Scizor/Slither Wing feel a bit more awkward right now as well I'll point out, so really just experimenting with comps in the mean time.
 

TheRealBigC

I COULD BE BANNED!
Been playing the post-HOME metagame a bit tonight and have to say I'm really enjoying it, there's maybe one or two broken elements at present but nothing super egregious yet imo. Many types such as Steel, Poison and especially Flying have a really great selection of mons now compared to pre-HOME. Anyway, I wanted to share some teams I made. Not claiming they're super amazing or anything, but they feel pretty consistent and been having fun with them.

https://pokepast.es/94d76dd009dfdaae (Ground)
https://pokepast.es/cde7916989d366ac (Poison)
https://pokepast.es/4196380169ce11cc (Steel - unsure of the right Goodra-H set here!)
https://pokepast.es/4c05ecb202231eb1 (Water)
https://pokepast.es/b48d98c0ffd39ed2 (Psychic)
https://pokepast.es/fb31cdf96c70c12e (Fairy)
https://pokepast.es/197bc993403f9efc (Dark)
https://pokepast.es/dd7d8f8ec85e5707 (Rock)
 
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Really the enjoying Home meta, managed to break 1700s using a rain team. Some things to note: Winners of Home include: Steel, Water, Flying, Fighting, Fairy, Poison, Dark, Bug, and Fire. Steel loves having Heatran back, though the lack of Ferrothorn means that no Water has an easy time overwhelming. Dark gets so many good mons back, like Galarian Moltres, Urshifu-S ( might be banned in the future though ) and new addition Hisuian Samurott, who's role compression as a hazard setter that doesn't mind Taunt or Magic Bounce makes it excellent on Dark and Water teams. Flying also got the biggest buffs between the Birds and Forces of Nature returning, allowing for things like Thundurus-T over Kilowateral. Kleavor is also extremely useful as a scarf users on Bug. Sneasler is insane thanks to its Signature move for both Poison/Fighting. Enamorus is great physical Attacker for Fairy, especially since it can use Contrary Superpower to hit Steel types. That's all for now.
 
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