Gen 6 Primal Groudon

[yohoE]

Approved by Sweep
​

Type: Ground/Fire
Stats: 100 HP/180 Attack/160 Defense/150 Special Attack/90 Special Defense/90 Speed

Ability: Desolate Land - When a Pokémon with Desolate Land enters battle, the Ability creates extremely harsh sunlight, a unique variation of intense sunlight. The extremely harsh sunlight lasts as long as the Pokémon with Desolate Land is in battle.
Along with the usual effects of intense sunlight, extremely harsh sunlight causes Water-type moves and Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Hail and Sandstorm to fail. It also causes the Abilities Drought, Drizzle, Sand Stream and Snow Warning to fail to activate.

Notable Moves:

Hide

Rock Polish
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Precipe Blades
Stone Edge
Dragon Claw
Fire Punch
Overheat
Fire Blast
Lava Plume
Earth Power
Dragon Pulse
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Dragon Tail
Roar
Eruption
Rest
Stealth Rock
Solar Beam (lol)

Overview:
Groudon received some of the best buffs one could ask for: a Fire/Ground typing (making it immune to both Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave) and an ability making it immune to Water-type attacks, whilst still buffing his already-devastating Fire-type attacks. Alongside these buffs, Groudon also got improvements to it's Attack, Defense and Special Attack stats, making it even stronger. Combine all the above-mentioned stats and you get arguably the most meta-breaking Pokemon to ever enter the Ubers tier, since RBY Mewtwo. (lol jk wsup mray)

Potential Movesets:

Double Dance Sweeper

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Lands
EVs: 120 HP/252 Atk/136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake / Precipe Blades
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge / Fire Punch

Rock Polish Sweeper

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Lands
EVs: 120 HP/252 Atk/136 Spe
Adamant/Naughty Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake / Precipe Blades
- Overheat / Fire Punch / Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge

Offensive SR Setter

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Lands
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake / Precipe Blades
- Fire Punch / Lava Plume
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge

Other Options: Toxic

Support

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Lands
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpDef
Careful/Sassy Nature
- Earthquake / Precipe Blades
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock / Dragon Claw / Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave / Toxic

Other options: Dragon Tail, Roar, Rest, Sleep Talk

Swords Dance

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Lands
EVs: 252 Attack/4 Defense/252 Speed
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake / Precipe Blades
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge

Other options: Thunder Wave

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Discuss away! :D

 

[SuperWumbology]

Why no TWave anything? Don't these kids know how to cheese these days?

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge

Edit: oh wait thats on the support set im a dumb

 

[Minority]

Offensive SR set needs moar Toxic imo.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Double Dance sets will probably get a huge boost in popularity as PDonner forces a buttload of switches with its base 180 Attack and 120 BP Precipice Blades. Overheat + Fire Punch are also able to demolish pesky Grass types that like to come in to soak up a Ground STAB and whatnot.

TL;DR this thing is really goddamn strong and every team needs some solid way of dealing with this dino ;;;;

 

[Inspirited]

Ye old Thunder Wave + SD set might be viable here. The spread will need redoing to live a +1 Ray EQ, but it could work pretty easily imo. The showdown calc is down and I don't feel like spamming IRC with calc commands, so I don't have a spread yet. done

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought (Desolate Land)
EVs: 244 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
- Thunder Wave
- Swords Dance

 

[Gloating]

Ye old Thunder Wave + SD set might be viable here. The spread will need redoing to live a +2 Ray Ascent, but it could work pretty easily imo. The showdown calc is down and I don't feel like spamming IRC with calc commands, so I don't have a spread yet.

I don't think it can live a +2 LO EQ so it's kind of pointless.

Just calced it +2 LO EQ does 101% - 119.3% to max/max PGroudon. DA does 90.6% - 106.9% an OHKO after SR. Lol I find it funny that it's almost max/max regardless.

 

[Inspirited]

I did do a couple calcs on IRC so this wouldn't be a blind goose chase, and it does convincingly with max max, so it is possible.

 

[EmblemLord]

This is what I got from http://www.smogon.com/calc/

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega-Rayquaza Earthquake vs 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal-Groudon: 408 - 482 (101% - 119.3%) guaranteed OHKO

 

[Inspirited]

This is what I got from http://www.smogon.com/calc/

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega-Rayquaza Earthquake vs 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal-Groudon: 408 - 482 (101% - 119.3%) guaranteed OHKO

I forgot that Dinosaur existed, no more garbage IRC calcs then. Anyways, I updated the spread to live +1 Adamant EQ since obviously something went wrong with the IRC calcs. :p

 

[Toshhy]

Did u ask if it was ok to take my pic?

 

[ChaosNemesis]

I need a bit more of info about this sweet Dino, can someone run those calc for me please (with and without SR):
+0 252 MRay EQuake => 252/4 PDon
+0 252 MRay EQuake => 252/252+ PDon
+0 252 MRay EQuake => 0/252 PDon
+1 252 MRay EQuake => 252/4 PDon
+1 252 MRay EQuake => 252/252+ PDon
+1 252 MRay EQuake => 0/252 PDon
+0 252+ MRay EQuake => 252/4 PDon
+0 252+ MRay EQuake => 252/252+ PDon
+0 252+ MRay EQuake => 0/252 PDon
+1 252+ MRay EQuake => 252/4 PDon
+1 252+ MRay EQuake => 252/252+ PDon
+1 252+ MRay EQuake => 0/252 PDon

Tyvm

 

[malefic]

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance

call it a wallbreaker or something. it's great at it since it's bulky and can't be burnt. EVs for uninvested 99s i think, i'm not calcing anything because the one i use is down so idk if precipice blades is achieving anything significant but meanwhile i've been liking eq'sconsistency. you can also creep lugia. this is great used with another ground-type sweeper in the wings since it doesn't compound weaknesses anyway thanks to those awesome buffs.

 

[Asmodean]

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance

I would really like to see Overheat somewhere over there. Seems like a shame to not make use of that 150 SpA to break physical walls.

 

[Transcendent God Champion]

Just posting this moveset here to claim credit as its inventor:

The Great Pokémon Master's Awakening Infernal Dinosaur

盾 (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Roar
- Sleep Talk

A Primal Groudon moveset specifically designed for use in a stall team, with its specially-defensive build allowing it to serve as a great switch-in to Kyogre, Xerneas and any Defog Arceus that does not hold an Earth Plate. Not only can it spread burns with Lava Plume, but it can also hit decently hard with this move thanks to its Fire typing, Desolate Land, as well as its massive 150 base Special Attack, and Lava Plume is also great for threatening Ferrothorn, a Pokémon which can be extremely annoying against opposing stall teams that do not have a Grass-type Pokémon of their own. Roar is useful for racking up entry hazard damage, disruption, and removing the stat boosts of a Geomancy Xerneas, while Rest and Sleep Talk grants this Pokémon the awesome longevity that a stall team very much demands. Rest and Sleep Talk combined with the HP and Special Defense EVs also allow this Pokémon to deal with Darkrai somewhat.

 

[MANNAT]

Does red orb have any secondary effects besides making the primal reversion happen.

 

[EmblemLord]

Is Hidden Power Ground the only answer GeoXern has for Primal Groudon? Though that means giving up HP Fire to deal with M-Scizor.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

95*1.5*1.3/2=92.625
60*2=120
Eh, not really. Moonblast still does a chill 80-ish% to max hp variants and even more to less bulky versions. Pdon is gonna be super common so it /might/ be worth it. It ultimately depends on how common the things that hp fire hits will be.

 

[Haruno]

Hp fire won't be needed due to its only two targets (ferro and scissor) getting shitted on by the two most common Mons in the tier (mega Ray and primal don) which makes them more or less unviable and the opportunity cost for using mega Zor is absolutely massive since one, it's bad at essentially all of its roles and two, it's set up bait for Ray/groudin while also taking up a mega slot which means no mega Ray/gengar which are probably the only two viable megas in the tier anyways. Ferro just get crapped on and is forced to rely on constant double switches to preserve momentum which is never good.

 

[Asmodean]

I have been using this as a support set which also sets up SR

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP /8 Atk/ 252 SpD
Sassy Nature (-Spe, +SpD)
- Lava Plume
- Precipice Blades
- Roar/Twave/Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Support Don doesn't need speed that much. It faces problems from opposing PDon, but you can use a +Def nature to take care of groudon more reliably.

 

[Hack]

Just posting this moveset here to claim credit as its inventor:

The Great Pokémon Master's Awakening Infernal Dinosaur

盾 (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Roar
- Sleep Talk

A Primal Groudon moveset specifically designed for use in a stall team, with its specially-defensive build allowing it to serve as a great switch-in to Kyogre, Xerneas and any Defog Arceus that does not hold an Earth Plate. Not only can it spread burns with Lava Plume, but it can also hit decently hard with this move thanks to its Fire typing, Desolate Land, as well as its massive 150 base Special Attack, and Lava Plume is also great for threatening Ferrothorn, a Pokémon which can be extremely annoying against opposing stall teams that do not have a Grass-type Pokémon of their own. Roar is useful for racking up entry hazard damage, disruption, and removing the stat boosts of a Geomancy Xerneas, while Rest and Sleep Talk grants this Pokémon the awesome longevity that a stall team very much demands. Rest and Sleep Talk combined with the HP and Special Defense EVs also allow this Pokémon to deal with Darkrai somewhat.

I think the problem with this set is that it's way too passive. Ho-oh, other primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre can switch in with ease and you can't really do much aside phazing, which isn't too threatening as this set is relatively easy to defog on anyway. While regular mixed wall Groudon with SR/blades/lava plume/roar also give Ho-oh easy switch ins, the difference is that you can set SR on it and phaze instead of just phaze. And despite having somewhat reliable recovery it still has to avoid having sleep turns left when opposing Xerneas gets set-up chances as you will then rely on sleep talk rolls to check it. Since the inherent weaknesses of this set mandates having Arceus-Rock and Lugia on your team, as well as a better CM pOgre check, I feel your team, stall or not, will be way too passive. Thanks for sharing anyway, it's still a cool idea.

 

[Shitegotreal]

I think the problem with this set is that it's way too passive. Ho-oh, other primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre can switch in with ease and you can't really do much aside phazing, which isn't too threatening as this set is relatively easy to defog on anyway. While regular mixed wall Groudon with SR/blades/lava plume/roar also give Ho-oh easy switch ins, the difference is that you can set SR on it and phaze instead of just phaze. And despite having somewhat reliable recovery it still has to avoid having sleep turns left when opposing Xerneas gets set-up chances as you will then rely on sleep talk rolls to check it. Since the inherent weaknesses of this set mandates having Arceus-Rock and Lugia on your team, as well as a better CM pOgre check, I feel your team, stall or not, will be way too passive. Thanks for sharing anyway, it's still a cool idea.

I think with that set it's automatically the job to have Stealth Rock on the field when you switch this Pokémon in. And well, then phazing is useful after all. Also, about this set being relatively easy to Defog against, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Outside of it's burning chance, I think it does a nice chunk of damage to Support Arceus too with Lava Plume. I don't dare saying the exact damage output as the calculator doesn't work right now. But I mean, 150 Special Attack, STAB, 80 Base Power. I mean just compare this with something like Regular Kyogre. This also had 150 Special Attack, and a 80 BP move. And also has the exact same burn chance. Was it wise to stay-in and combat the whale with your Support Arceus then and Defog?

Edit: @ below. Well, what I mean by automatically having Stealth Rock is assuming Stealth Rock has already been set up and on a given turn Arceus comes in and attempts to Defog. Also, even though it is true my Defog Punisher Pokémon is seperated from my Stealth Rock Pokémon doesn't mean I necessarily need to switch to my Stealth Rock Pokémon. I can stay in with Primal Groudon with no fear at all and possibly pressure the Defog Arceus at a point out ( when Lava Plume damage + (possibly) burn residual damage brings it in a range where Arceus if forced to keep Recover and Recover.

P.S: Lance happens to have the Pokémon you mentioned on your reply to his post on the team where he uses this set.

 

[Hack]

I don't understand what you mean

there is nothing as "automatically having sr" and it is very easy to defog on as your defog punish mon (groudon) is separated from your sr mon, meaning you have to sacrifice momentum with a switch to your SR user to make the set work. Otherwise you keep giving the mons i mentioned too much space. Not to mention there is a massive opportunity cost not running SR on pdon on defensive teams, I guess I should have made that clearer.

summary: don't separate your SR punish from your SR user when Groudon is good at both.

 

[yohoE]

ite I added the SD set posted by Malefic, and I also added 'other options' after some of the sets.

and I agree with Hack about LLW's set, so won't be adding that.

 

[xDesch]

Hmm, if I understand Hack right, then what he said about the set was not that it was "bad", just not what he'd expect and something that would need more support than he'd thought this 'mon would need. As he said, it is a cool idea, and was nice that he shared it with us. I personally don't think we should just label sets as "good" or "bad" on the spot, especially without even trying anything of it out (lol). I think we should rather focus on discussing what is good and what is bad about the various sets, and how they work and what support they need to succeed in doing that job.

Obviously Groudon has a lots of sets going for it, and being original and unorthodox (even tho we can hardly call it that this early in ORAS) and trying new things is not something we should dismiss.

 

[Hack]

Just for the record I indeed think lance posted a p good set, i just think it's fairly restrictive considering building options with it are limited. It's more /worth/ adding than malefics set, but thats just what I think.

 

[yohoE]

Just for the record I indeed think lance posted a p good set, i just think it's fairly restrictive considering building options with it are limited. It's more /worth/ adding than malefics set, but thats just what I think.

yeah, that's what I meant. this thread is more for people trying to learn more about oras, imo, and giving them lance's set would hinder them as opposed to help them, despite the set being "better".