art last
I thought this would work as well, but this current project shows it doesn't. There definitely needs to be a concept thread before typing.Or we could let the consept evolve naturaly as the polls go on.
What if we do typing then a concept discussion+poll? The problem with this currant one is we had a concept (Kingdra of the sun was what most people wanted, a few wanted auto-sun) but people voted for a stat spread that did not fit it, I think this was mostly because there were 2 well known names attached to the spread more than anything.I thought this would work as well, but this current project shows it doesn't. There definitely needs to be a concept thread before typing.
I'm debating back and forth on this. There is certainly a lot of energy in the community around discussing possible future concepts. Right now in the "Weather Effects" thread, it has mutated into a discussion over the concept of Rapid Spin. Normally, I would just close the thread or remind people to get on-topic. The problem is -- there is not a topic for discussing that stuff. So, from that perspective, creating a dedicated "Future Concepts Discussion" thread would provide an outlet for all that discussion.Perhaps a "Concept Discussion Thread" should be set up now for those who are already debating the next CAP's (Rapid Spinner and Auto-Weather).
I'm not questioning whether we should have a concept thread first or second on the project. I'm debating whether to have an always-open Concept Discussion thread. That's my current dilemma. I'm pretty sure I don't want to allow it. If others disagree, I suggest you speak up.If we do have a concept discussion thread we should at least have it after the typing is chosen to limit the possible options for discussion, if we do concept first a "free for all" like Mekkah described would ensue.
I completely agree with you. The only time concepts for future Pokemon should be discussed should be before one starts, and possibly in specific threads such as the weather one we have going on currently.I'm not questioning whether we should have a concept thread first or second on the project. I'm debating whether to have an always-open Concept Discussion thread. That's my current dilemma. I'm pretty sure I don't want to allow it. If others disagree, I suggest you speak up.
I'd rather have it before the typing poll, but I think it would work easier after it, just because it would become more focused. Of course, the concept thread could be open while the next TL is being chosen, then the new TL finds the best reasoned concepts (not necessarily best overall, just ones with the best reasoning as to why they should be made/upgraded/etc), and has that as their first official poll.I'd prefer to create a short concept thread at or near the beginning of every CAP project. Whether we do it before or after the typing poll is not a major concern of mine. I'd prefer to do it before. Therefore EVERYTHING that we decide after that, needs to be in line with the general concept. Yes, the concept discussion will be a rat's nest of ideas, but it will only last for a few days, and everyone will be able to get their suggestions on the table before anything else has been decided. I think that would be good for the project.
Just hope we don't end up with a William Hung.If American Idol can do open cattle-call auditions -- we can do open cattle-call concept submissions....
Those are both fantastic, Hyra -- I wholeheartedly agree with you.On order, I think art can possibly wait.
Concept -> Type -> Stats (all of them lol) -> Movepool -> Art
I've thought about it, and it's not that hard to justify anything beyond Punching a Kicking moves in Pokemon. I mean, for use to potentially add Powders to Woodman, Eleagune showed Spores coming out of the fire pits. it would be better if art had a lot more time to evolve so that it is really amazing and fits incredibly well with the design.
The only thing I don't like about that order is that it rushes spriting. Alternative order is:
Concept -> Type -> Art -> Stats -> Movepool.
In this, we try to match the stats to the art and the art to the concept. Just a try at something different.
...excepting that I, personally, would like to go back and use Doug's Jack-o-Lantern picture as a concept. The concept poll should have the power to override any other poll.Those are both fantastic, Hyra -- I wholeheartedly agree with you.
The trouble is picking the one I want, they both have their pros and cons (though I am leaning to the art last).
- Fire Fang
- Tackle
- Sand-attack
- Dragon Rage
- Sandstorm
3. Sand-attack
7. Dragon Rage
13. Sandstorm
15. Take Down
19. Sand Tomb
28. Slash
33. Dragon Claw
40. Dig
48. Crunch
55. Dragon Rush
Dragonbreath
Outrage
Twister
Scary Face
Double-edge
Thrash
Metal Claw
Sand Tomb
Body Slam
Iron Head
It's all about the example.Now look at its egg moves:
Practically all garbage once again, except for Outrage. Note also that Sand Tomb is an egg move despite the fact that it learns it as a level-up move.Code:Dragonbreath Outrage Twister Scary Face Double-edge Thrash Metal Claw Sand Tomb Body Slam Iron Head
This fully illustrates my point: that the TM list is what constitutes a Pokemon's 90% of its usable movepool, and NOT its level-up or egg moves.
There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. Charizard is the proverbial exception that proves the rule.It's all about the example.
http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/006.shtml
Among, for example, Charizard's egg moves, you see:
Belly Drum, Outrage, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Crunch, Dragon Rush, Flare Blitz, Rock Slide, and Ancient Power
Not all pokemon have crap egg move lists. It could just be that Garchomp babies are slightly retarded.
Then again, it's not like our pokemon have to follow "the rule." It's just something that has been observed, and in fact there are cases where pokemon bypass them without becoming broken or ridiculous-there are precedents like Charizard.There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. Charizard is the proverbial exception that proves the rule.