Proposal for a new Format

Forsety

I think this might appeal to alot of people as much as it might piss off some.

I've refrained from voicing this idea early on since it required for the first/early tiers to surface before it could actually be mentioned. I figured since many attempt to apply the concepts of metagame seen in many competitive environments including TCG's I stormed this idea up.

Anyway my proposal is of a Limited format.

Quick Explanation:

Familiar to some who play the Yugioh/Duel Monsters TCG. In the Yugioh/DM TCG game every card is limited to 3 copies in a deck but there is a group of staple cards (essentially the equivilent of Pokemon's OU) which are restricted to 2 per deck or 1 per deck due to being too versatile and powerful. Very rarely will you see a card banned unless it is broken beyond a shadow of a doubt though actually to date I believe no card has ever been banned.

This listing would be regularly shuffled and switched around every few months or when new cards are introduced or after major tournaments. When this was actually done it created a much more varied, faster paced and interesting environment with alot more balance and variety.


Back to the Subject:

Now when applied to pokemon this is a little different. To date all I've seen as proposals for changing the environment is add a tier, remove a tier. Its all abit confusing and feels somewhat....old and tired.

What this is, is a new approach to an old idea.

The basic idea would be a smallish list of OU's/Standards would exist and that you would only be allowed to play ONE or TWO of these guys per team. However what makes this interesting is that it effectively allows some normally considered High OU and debatable 00bers back into the game to mix with what we would normally consider UU. Since this is based more on effectiveness + power and the general idea here is that the whole proposal curbs seeing the same 6 over and over again.

I can already hear massive outcry of that is stupid and etc. etc. but to be honest with the large pool of available pokemon at the moment this is actually viable.

But hear me out I have two different versions of this idea and like to see which is more viable.


Black&White Scenario- (Not really suggested)

The first version would be simply to have your high tier and simply limit every team to only using 1 or 2 (whichever floats your boat) of the high tier in each team. The rest of the team would have to be made up of other lower tier pokemon to support the 'trump card' or 'captain' of the team if it were.
Advantages:
-Simple and straightforward
-This version actually lets even certain debatable 00bers join the standard game without ruining it.
-Carrying on from above certain high OU's could even be let back into the pool since they're too valuable as staples to force people to choose.
-Curbs rampant abuse of certain standards
-Enforces variety

Disadvantages:
-Overly simplistic, theres a reason I called it 'black&white'.
-Does not account for certain BL's which are still too powerful but situational and may escape the limits imposed.
-High 00bers are still obviously banned
-Does eliminate certain standard strats completely eg. Gyarados+Electivire
-Creates an environment where teams are almost forced to build completely around their leader.
-Doesn't actually enforce more strategy as you've limited most of what causes certain pokemon to become OU.
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A Pyramid Format-(This is the one I like)

In this version of the format there be simply a high tier and lower high tier, high tier would be limited to ONE per team. While the lower high tier could be limited to one or two per team, this is open to debate which is better. (Personally speaking I prefer two.)

In this case your team if you choose to use the rules would consist of 1 high tier, 1 or 2 limited and the other 3 or 4 would consist of UU/NU. Even at the extreme end you'd end up with half a high tier team while the other half is pure UU supporting the main three.

Another alternative is 2 high tier and 1 lower high tier (2/1) but I personally prefer the (1/2) version. In short this is the pokemonized version of the example back in the quick explanation section.

Advantages:
-Creates an enviroment most similar to the current one.
-Does not overcentralize strategies as many high tiers would still be usuable with each other.
-Its the less restrictive of the two versions
-Once your main leader goes down your not at an immediate high disadvantage.
-Its probably the best compromise between the tiers as it essentially blurs the boundries between them.
-With that said debatable 00bers can be easily let back in.
-List can be updated every few months in a normal fashion you'd do with current tiers.
-Might create an interesting new approach to team building as you'd be mixing pokemon from different tiers more often than usual.
-This has been tested and WORKED in another highly competitive environment.


Disadvantages:-
-Whine, whine, whine I can't use Tyrannitar with Metagross or Salamance with Blissey and Garchomp. More seriously it may still create an feeling of restriction.
-It'd actually require a good re-organization of tiers making a slightly bigger 'BL tier'. Could be more work.
-High 00bers are still banned.
-Some might criticize this as creating a very artificial environment and does not reflect the true 'prime' of the game if it were.
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This whole idea has mostly come about because I remember playing many UU players who sometimes wish to use a BL but aren't allowed because of restrictions. Or standard players who might want to use other pokemon but don't like the idea of risking multiple losses.

Overall this is still only an idea still up in the air so feel free to shoot it down, criticize or praise it if you like. But do please try be constructive about it. Ask any questions if you must.
 
I use BL/UU on my team and beat the crap outa the people on here who use all OU and legends.

But this idea could definately go places, looks very thought out and organized.
 
As much as the idea could work, I believe teams may well only get more stale and similar! If Blissey is the only real special wall, why would you not use it as one of your OU's? There are a small handful of OU's that you would just see on every team if this format got popular imo.
 
Hmm, yes, Blissey would be pretty much required as other wise Specsmence can come in and LOL all over everything. The main problem I can see is that it could really become a case of whose OU beats whose, especially if you go for a sweeping OU. The reason we have the UU and NU tiers is because those Pokémon can't cope with the threats posed by OU Pokémon. In this format, I can see them becoming cannon fodder very easily.
 
Sir Spanky said:
As much as the idea could work, I believe teams may well only get more stale and similar! If Blissey is the only real special wall, why would you not use it as one of your OU's? There are a small handful of OU's that you would just see on every team if this format got popular imo.
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Then Blissey would be banned for a while afterwards, I suppose. I'm assuming that the Pokemon would also be banned individually, here. However, think about it - Blissey can be demolished by physical attacks. So if you had Blissey as your OU, you would have to worry about physical attackers and modify your team appropriately.

For example, I have a Tyranitar on my team. I go with Sand Streamers and Pokemon who get the boost of defense from Sandstorm. However, there are counters to that so it couldn't all be Sand Streamers and steel, rock, and ground types. I would be forced to use Pokemon that I would not normally consider, because I cannot use any other OUs.

... The above most likely made no sense at all.
 
Sir Spanky said:
As much as the idea could work, I believe teams may well only get more stale and similar! If Blissey is the only real special wall, why would you not use it as one of your OU's? There are a small handful of OU's that you would just see on every team if this format got popular imo.
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However thats the point, because the pool of OU's becomes limited people will have to constantly change more. People start abusing Specsmence than others abuse Blissey after a while than others abuse Garchomp. But then somebody throws in maybe Scarfcross or Dusknoir and it messes up the cycle. It revolves in a circle and those who break the circle suddenly gain an advantage and this is what a true metagame is, it has a life cycle in a sense.

The current standard format works the same way except its the same 6 instead of only 1 or 2. But since its non-restrictive it means that they don't have to look as far for their next counter to the new flavour of the week.

Therefore there'd still always be something slightly different to add to the flavour as new pokemon are thrown into the fight from the lower tiers and you might have surprises unlike your usual format.

Also the assumption of whose OU can beat the other OU, this is true but keep in mind you still have 3 more pokemon who can bring down a severely weakened leader without taking damage if you've been playing evenly.

In a odd sense it means that the extras you pack could become the true game breaker. As when both of you have lost your main playing cards then the winner will be the one who has the better constructed second half.

The reason we have the UU and NU tiers is because those Pokémon can't cope with the threats posed by OU Pokémon. In this format, I can see them becoming cannon fodder very easily.
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I considered this matter but it occured to me the actual reason those UU/NU can't cope with OU is because they come in entire teams. When your dealing with only maybe 1-3 OU tops they can provide a bigger impact than you give them credit for normally.

You may edge out a kill barely on their hardest hitter, then suddenly another one comes out giving you no room to breathe.
 
the issue though, would become if you only allow one of the top tier OU (both of which blissey and specsmence would fall into), then every team cannot have both. and i would assume other hard hitting special attacks such as p-z and starmie would fall into the same boat. thus, pokemon like snorlax, regice... would be more viable and capable to handle the special threats since they'd be toned down a bit.

i think it's a great idea to break the staleness, but some of the RMTs have shown that people are still being diverse without such restrictions, so it may not be completely neccessary.

well thought out and written though, touche.
 
I actually think that the black and white idea has some merit. Not for regular play, but as an alternate rule it'd create some interesting matches.
 
I think the problem with this idea is that the game would probably become all about who could knock out the other guy's OU poke first. If I can knock your best guy out, then the rest of your team isn't really prepared for the kind of damage that I could do with my remaining OU pokemon.

While this might make overall usage of other pokemon go up, I think it would only further centralize the game in a different way. Players would use the very best BL or UU pokes in their teams and then one or two of the very best OU pokes. We'd probably see a ridiculous amount of TTars and SpecsMences, maybe Blisseys and a couple others, but then the rest of the OU would fall into disuse since they don't quite hit as hard or counter as well. In short, people would still play for maximum efficiency and the game would just centralize over a different group of pokemon.

Its a fun idea, maybe as a side game, but I doubt it will really help make the metagame that much more diverse.
 
This is a pretty cool idea (if not entirely unoriginal) but I don't think it will be ever be accepted. Ever. It's not that I think there is some big flaw, it's just that... well... people dislike change, and it seems to me the general attitude toward how the tiers work is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the current system just ain't broke enough. There's still enough room on current teams to allow at least one or two of the pokemon you don't see every day while still having a winning team. It's mostly the player who decides to use a team indistinguishable from the next guy's.
 
This System is good for TCG... true...
But I don't think this gonna happen in PKMN...
Even in OU there are the OU of the OUs.
Most Players will use Blissy or SpecsMence... I don't see somthing like "Different Teams" out there. In this "Limited-System" will be a new Metagame :P
 
i dont like the first one, the OU pokes would just own all the UU\NU pokes, and that is the reason we have tiers in the first place, not to mention all the blissey's we would see.
 
The tiers are separate for a reason. How many UU pokes could wall something like Garchomp or Specsmence? Or conversly, how many UU sweepers could get through Blissey or Skarm? As much as I dislike the system, the tiers are too different to mix well.
 
The massive amount of resiricted cards is the reason I don't like yu-gi-oh ot begin with. If it's so powerful that people shouldn't use it, ban it. Otherwise it all comes down to who draws their Mega Blast Canopic Jar Level 8 first.

Wait, that's what we do with pokemon already?

Good.
 
Having nplayed both Yu-Gi-Oh and DM, I feel I can confidently point out what's wrong with this format. For sake of simplicity, I am going to compare the card Spirit Reaper with Shuckle. Now, for those of you who haven't played the card game, Spirit Reaper cannot be killed with attacks, only spells and effects. It's also incredibly weak. Effectively, Shuckle is the same way.

Now, the reason Spirit Reaper can work effectively in Yu-Gi-Oh is because not only does it stall for a short while anyway, it also gives you a few turns to draw more cards and hopefully give you something to escape your current predicament. Shuckle, on the other hand, does not do this. All Shuckle can do is stall for two turns and attempt to Toxic.

Spirit Reaper can resist any attack, even from the most powerful monster card you can think of. Try putting Shuckle up against SpecsMence or Garchomp. I'd bet it won't last long. What I'm trying to say is that limiting the number of OU pokemon you can use won't make a difference. The opposing OUs will kill each other, and whoever survives will proceed to sweep the remaining UUs and NUs. You can't compare TCGs and Pokemon because they both function differently. TCGs give you the opportunity to pull something out of your deck, while in Pokemon, you're stuck with what you have.
 
A good alternate rule, but I don't think it'd work for the main rule. Everyone would pick blissey, specsmence, gliscor, weezing, ect. as their main OU. Stuff like Dragonite, Gyaravire, ect. would dissapear entirely because you simply can't run a team without blissey unless you want to be destroyed by Azelf, and you can't afford to use some of the less OU OUs if you can only have two to a team. So the best OU stuff would actually get increased gameplay while the slightly weaker OUs would end up falling into total disuse.
 
The thing is, Pokemon isn't a TCG. This rule however can be put to place as a fun tournament, but it won't be standard. There's a tournament that is currently (or was recently) running with similar rules. I think it was called the Rainbow Tournament or something?
 
I'd be more entertained by the prospect of a tournament that limited move choices: One of each move could really change the look and feel of the game, as you can no longer pack BoltBeam on everything, nor could you run the same kinds of setup moves.

Just a thought. Might be entertaining at the least once we have competitor, and don't have to train a bunch of things with wildly screwed up movepools. =D
 
This is a rather interesting idea for a format, however I don't see this replacing nor existing alongside standard/OU/UU. Mainly because of the fact that I don't enough people would support the format to make it viable. But I do think that this can become one of those fun quirky tournament formats like a no item tournament etc.
 
anyone who's played a tcg other than yu-gi-oh can tell you that restricting cards is a rather horrible way to ensure balance. it just ends up making around half of your deck exactly the same as every other deck. the same thing would happen with pokemon. every single team would include 2 of maybe 4 or 5 staples and things would get old and not even be really balanced because alot of luck is involved. even assuming not everyone is just picking blissy if your 2 OUs are say, herracross and tyranitar, you get totally owned if their two OUs are along the lines of specsmence and gliscor.
 
First of all dude as you suggest there can only be 3max cards with same name for each deck meaning that no more than 3cyber dragons to fuse(except for proto). In pokemon there is already a rule known as species clause which bans you from using the same pokemon in team. Your idea is very good like limiting the use of ou. It could work out since now we have tier list perfectly. I also think that we should limit the use of items and moves. Like restricting life orb for only one pokemon. OK but this would change the environment in the gameplay as you must be sick of seeing life orb users and choice ones. Let expert belt get a hand. Maybe earthquake be limited for max3 pokes. These are all ideas but I still think that people wouldnt look this neatly. Eventhough borderline pokemon has their own metagame it doesnt get much use so it would be good to take them out for competitive battling. Talking about competition dont think it would limit it I say it just like options. Ubers are banned but you can still use them if your opponent wants to.
 
I agree with everyone pointing out the problem of the lower OUs becoming completely useless, because well if you can only pick one OU, might as well make it a Top OU. This would probably actually reduce the variety in teams.

But this does remind me of a "point system" that someone had proposed here a while ago. Each pokemon is assigned a point value, and the sum of your points cannot surpass a certain number that you and your opponent decide. Or alternatively, another way of putting it would be the Uber tier in that system would be unlimited points allowed, OU would be say 500 points allowed and UU would be 400 points.
The obvious problem with this that people brought up is assigning the point values to each pokemon, because people will always complain about a certain pokemon getting an "unfair" point value.

Anyway, I described that really badly, but I hope someone understood. ._.
 
Tweezers18, the problem with that is that someone will use a 500 point Pokemon, ie, Uber, and five 0 point Pokemon, ie, Sunkern, and go around causing havoc.
 
Deucalion2 said:
Tweezers18, the problem with that is that someone will use a 500 point Pokemon, ie, Uber, and five 0 point Pokemon, ie, Sunkern, and go around causing havoc.
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That's true. The system obviously isn't flawless, but I just thought it was interesting when I first read about it here.
Also, the person who thought up the idea probably had some kind of a system to avoid that kind of thing from happening. I only remember the basic idea, not the finer points.
 
If people run Specmence, Then I just Bring in Froslass, and Laugh in his face ,because he got to Blissey to Wall Her. So Spec mance Isn't impossible to beat, it just take a pkemon or two to kil him.

But on topic. It would be a good system, But the bad thing is that it would need a neww discussion every fewew months to see who at add, or who to lose on the OU list. So other ten that it's fine
 
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