Hi! This thread will exist to give us a spot to post council updates as we would like to have somewhere easy to find that makes it easy to see the council activity history.
With that in mind, the main point I want to share is that we'll be holding a council vote this Sunday on a number of Pokemon that we deem problematic enough to be considered for a quickban. I'm briefly going to run through each one of these and give our reasoning as to why we're considering them for the current slate. Just a reminder though, this is still a vote and no Pokemon have been banned yet. For any ban to pass we need at least a 2/3rds majority, or 5 out of 7 votes in the case of our 7 person council.
Oricorio-Pa'u, much like Baille earlier in the gen, sets itself apart from the other Quiver Dance threats mainly by its main stab Revelation Dance, which allows it to change its stab typing when it undergoes a tera change. The big issue with Pa'u is the unpredictability of its tera type and as a result the variety of checks to it a team must run just to be able to answer every option. This replay is a good example of the issues Pa'u presents, as Chloe is very well prepped for the more common ground tera type, but loses on the spot because it was fighting instead.
It is however very reliant on Tera which lets it down a bit and can constrict you in gameplay as you want to save your Tera for Pa'u usually in games.
Haunter has come to our attention more and more as people have begun to use different sets than just choice locked and Nasty Plot. Haunter has a huge range of support moves this generation in Encore, Substitute, Wisp, Disable and of course, Tera. This allows for it to tailor its sets to beat its defensive answers, which is particularly problematic when Skuntank is the only true answer it has. We think the set diversity of Haunter, and the near necessity of Skuntank on teams because of it, may make it problematic.
However it does struggle in terms of bulk and can be tricky to bring in some games as a result, which can be damaging when it wants to get in multiple times a game to really put pressure on teams. The raw damage output of non choice locked sets can also be disappointing at times, forcing it to be careful about when it comes in as it can present opposing teams with opportunities to trade directly into it when it doesn't do enough damage.
Magneton stands out for its bulky Eviolite set, who's statistic profile is far greater than that of the rest of the tier, allowing it to come in very easily. Combine that with a very potent both offensive and defensive typing, two great abilities in Analytic and Magnet Pull and the ability to pressure Ground-types even more this gen with Tera and it can be considered too difficult to defensively handle. Here's a replay showing that, as Sensei Axew brings a Camerupt and a defensive Ampharos, yet Magneton is still able to have its way, getting in multiple times on Quaxwell and being able to freely Volt Switch despite the presence of a Ground-type thanks to Tera Water.
The notable drawbacks though are that its middling speed tier and lack of recovery means it can be pressured in a lot of games, limiting it to one or two chances to come it. Its common weaknesses also force it to rely on Tera to a degree.
These are some other Pokemon that we are keeping an eye on and are aware that many people see issues with, but as of right now the council doesn't deem any of them to be problematic and as such we will be holding them off of this slate. However we're definitely aware of them and won't rule out future action for them.
Quiver Dance
The last thing I want to touch on is Quiver Dance as a move. There have been more and more calls to ban Quiver Dance as a move so we feel its important we address this. The big hurdle in this proposal is that Smogon's tiering framework heavily favours banning Pokemon over moves. As such, if we were to get a Quiver Dance ban approved, we would need to show that every Pokemon that gains access to the move is broken, and even if we can do that, we would need to still get such a ban approved by Smogon's tiering section, which isn't a guarantee. As of right now, we feel we can't justifiably prove that for Lilligant and Vivillon so we're holding off on making a push for it.
If Pa'u does end up getting banned and the remaining Quiver Dance Pokemon do end up being broken, we do intend on exploring this option however. As it happens, council in general would prefer to go down a Quiver Dance ban route if possible, but we simply don't feel we currently have the justification needed to make it happen. We'll revisit the topic at a later date anyway but I mainly wanted to communicate that we're aware of it and explain why we haven't done anything.
With that in mind, the main point I want to share is that we'll be holding a council vote this Sunday on a number of Pokemon that we deem problematic enough to be considered for a quickban. I'm briefly going to run through each one of these and give our reasoning as to why we're considering them for the current slate. Just a reminder though, this is still a vote and no Pokemon have been banned yet. For any ban to pass we need at least a 2/3rds majority, or 5 out of 7 votes in the case of our 7 person council.
Oricorio-Pa'u, much like Baille earlier in the gen, sets itself apart from the other Quiver Dance threats mainly by its main stab Revelation Dance, which allows it to change its stab typing when it undergoes a tera change. The big issue with Pa'u is the unpredictability of its tera type and as a result the variety of checks to it a team must run just to be able to answer every option. This replay is a good example of the issues Pa'u presents, as Chloe is very well prepped for the more common ground tera type, but loses on the spot because it was fighting instead.
It is however very reliant on Tera which lets it down a bit and can constrict you in gameplay as you want to save your Tera for Pa'u usually in games.
Haunter has come to our attention more and more as people have begun to use different sets than just choice locked and Nasty Plot. Haunter has a huge range of support moves this generation in Encore, Substitute, Wisp, Disable and of course, Tera. This allows for it to tailor its sets to beat its defensive answers, which is particularly problematic when Skuntank is the only true answer it has. We think the set diversity of Haunter, and the near necessity of Skuntank on teams because of it, may make it problematic.
However it does struggle in terms of bulk and can be tricky to bring in some games as a result, which can be damaging when it wants to get in multiple times a game to really put pressure on teams. The raw damage output of non choice locked sets can also be disappointing at times, forcing it to be careful about when it comes in as it can present opposing teams with opportunities to trade directly into it when it doesn't do enough damage.
Magneton stands out for its bulky Eviolite set, who's statistic profile is far greater than that of the rest of the tier, allowing it to come in very easily. Combine that with a very potent both offensive and defensive typing, two great abilities in Analytic and Magnet Pull and the ability to pressure Ground-types even more this gen with Tera and it can be considered too difficult to defensively handle. Here's a replay showing that, as Sensei Axew brings a Camerupt and a defensive Ampharos, yet Magneton is still able to have its way, getting in multiple times on Quaxwell and being able to freely Volt Switch despite the presence of a Ground-type thanks to Tera Water.
The notable drawbacks though are that its middling speed tier and lack of recovery means it can be pressured in a lot of games, limiting it to one or two chances to come it. Its common weaknesses also force it to rely on Tera to a degree.
These are some other Pokemon that we are keeping an eye on and are aware that many people see issues with, but as of right now the council doesn't deem any of them to be problematic and as such we will be holding them off of this slate. However we're definitely aware of them and won't rule out future action for them.
Quiver Dance
The last thing I want to touch on is Quiver Dance as a move. There have been more and more calls to ban Quiver Dance as a move so we feel its important we address this. The big hurdle in this proposal is that Smogon's tiering framework heavily favours banning Pokemon over moves. As such, if we were to get a Quiver Dance ban approved, we would need to show that every Pokemon that gains access to the move is broken, and even if we can do that, we would need to still get such a ban approved by Smogon's tiering section, which isn't a guarantee. As of right now, we feel we can't justifiably prove that for Lilligant and Vivillon so we're holding off on making a push for it.
If Pa'u does end up getting banned and the remaining Quiver Dance Pokemon do end up being broken, we do intend on exploring this option however. As it happens, council in general would prefer to go down a Quiver Dance ban route if possible, but we simply don't feel we currently have the justification needed to make it happen. We'll revisit the topic at a later date anyway but I mainly wanted to communicate that we're aware of it and explain why we haven't done anything.
