Project PU Theorymon

[MZ]

OP stolen from Zebraiken, new thread approved by Magnemite

Theorymon Sessions
​

Magnemite has decided to adopt this format for the theorymon thread instead of the old one, because the old one didn't leave much room for discussion. Basically, in this thread you aren't limited to a specific Pokemon, but you can suggest any change you want (as long as it fits within the rules) and discuss its impact on the meta.

Here's how it's gonna work. I'm going to come up with a reasonable change to the PU metagame, and you guys discuss the aftereffects of this change, how it will affect the meta, some interesting sets you might use to combat this new change, any plausible counters, anything that you can think of to talk about this new potential change. This change could be anything from new DW abilities being released to NU drop-downs - even changes to the moves or abilities that current Pokemon have could be discussed. I'll also provide several questions to work off of (though I expect you guys to come up with your own to ask the other posters, too!), so hopefully it should be easy to just jump in and start discussing. You don't need to talk about all of the changes, or even both happening at the same time, although they can be considered together.

RULES

1. Firstly, try to avoid suggesting obviously broken changes, or those that would make it unrealistic for this Pokemon to remain PU. If you're going to give Slaking ANYTHING other than Truant, why in the world would it still be PU? Likewise, don't go giving Articuno Magic Guard or anything of the sort.
2. Leave base stats, typing, and everything else alone. This is an exercise about moves and abilities, not anything else.
3. Give a brief explanation of why this move / ability would logically be usable on said Pokemon. This does not mean "i think it would be cool lololol". This does mean knowing the context of the move / ability that you want to add (ie. Quiver Dance tends to be found on Bug-type Pokemon with wings etc) and not just slapping moves on just because of their competitive nature. The goal here is semi-realism and discussing what would happen if Pokemon x got move y, not "let's see if we can make Pokemon x broken!!".
4. Don't bring up more than one or two new ideas per post. Even if you can think of a million bajillion awesome new ideas for moves and Pokemon, realize that everyone else needs to have a chance to give their input, too.
5. Don't forget that everyone else wants to have their ideas talked about, too. If you see someone's post that has been ignored, give 'em a response. Look through the listing, and see if you find anything interesting there.
6. Try to think outside of the box, not simply boosting moves or new coverage moves. If you're struggling to think of something that might be worth talking about, respond to someone else's thoughts and come back later. If you are unsure whether or not what you have to say is worth saying, post it anyway - having a few questions answered and talked about is better than having a dead thread.

If you have any ideas for main topics and can't fit them into these posts or would like to give them more love, I'm open to VMs or PMs on Showdown.

 

[MZ]

Our main topics will be:

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
What if Stunfisk got Water Absorb?
What if Meganium got Wish and Thick Fat?

Don't forget, you can bring up new things too! This is just somewhere to start discussing from, and should work for the next several posts until we move on.

 

[Magnemite]

Also, since it isn't horribly clear, you can no longer suggest changes to anything other than moves or abilities. I might change this though if the thread gets too dead, but the point is to focus more on metagame impacts than giving bad mons random buffs.

Oh also make sure to at least give your ideas a bit of explanation when you post them

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Rapid Spin Golem: Why isn't this a thing already? While aside from Sucker Punch it can't do much to spinblockers, it gives great utility and due to Sturdy can almost always get a Spin off. Also will make Armaldo drop to FU so that's nice.
Water Absorb Stunfisk: Stunfisk being weak to Water makes no sense whatsoever, which is why this works. Aside from Ice-type moves this basically cock blocks most of the viable Water-types, especially Barbaracle and if that doesn't get banned Water Absorb Fisk would be a great check to it.
Thick Fat and Wish Meganium: FAT DINO HEH. Anyways this sort of functions like Tangela except with Wish passing and not being as roasted by Fire and Ice moves. Though nothing about Meganium's design suggests it being fat so I dunno the logic in this one. Would be useful as an alternative to Tangela due to its utility in Wish Passing, that plus Earthquake, which is cool.

Sadly though I can't think of an idea that isn't technically not allowed. (Fire/Steel Torkoal anyone?)

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Rapid Spin Golem: Interesting, another way to exploit Custap berry i guess, but the main niche of this move belongs in the lead matchups ofc, but like, the leads of PU are kind of against Golem nowadays so even if you manage to spin, you're still possibly exploitable, i guess you could play mindgames with Explosion but Golem's not powerful enough to break, let's say Piloswine. Idk honestly, it's a pretty nice move but at the same time it isn't, especially considering it doesn't help that much vs Pilo, idk what to think, i need to see it. Solo spinner set or something? Meh, it's probably mediocre.
Water Absorb Stunfisk: that's just too good in all honesty, Stunfisk would probably become a top mon of PU, he can check smashers & water types + the thing he already checks, would probably be on par with Roselia in terms of utility/support for a team, if not better. It's pretty nice to have a better smasher check/water check that doesn't get bopped by coverage because it has nice bulk + can answer back.
Thick Fat & Wish Meganium: Happy Dino now has 3 weaknesses that are still not that uncommon in OU, and a way to heal itself & most importantly, its partners. As you know Meganium packs a pretty solid bulk overall, so it could possibly walls some mons & maybe even answer back with EQ for fire types or something, but while it's a nice buff, it's more of a stall buff imo, most teams would still enjoy Tangela or Roselia over this as they are a bit less passive & both have helpful moves ( No Sleep Powder Dino = Rip, kind of sad )

Recently, we've seen a rise of Metang, so i've been wondering:
What if Metang had Heatproof?

 

[Twix]

Recently, we've seen a rise of Metang, so i've been wondering:
What if Metang had Heatproof?

While this may be an interesting concept, I'd much rather shoot for Levitate on Metang. Not only would this help it out greatly in the tier, it would be justified by its seemingly levitating form on the battle field, whether it's from its Psychic ability or not.

 

[WhiteDMist]

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
Well, giving up its STAB moves is not an option, so it has to give up either Stealth Rock or Sucker Punch/Explosion. I will note that stacking Rock or Ground-typing on a team isn't really easy (Grass and Water types are pretty common as is) so giving Stealth Rock to another team member is easier said than done. Having Sucker Punch, or a Custap Explosion, is such a nice benefit as well, though maybe a bi easier to give up if you carry a good revenge killer and 1 or more priority users. This could result in the rise of more defensive spreads, as you'd need Golem to stick around. It does resist Stealth Rock, which is a benefit the other spinners don't have, so there's a plus. It doesn't have an easy time getting past Gourgeist-XL though.

What if Stunfisk got Water Absorb?
It already has a unique defensive niche, but this just puts it pretty over the top as it then checks stuff that a Ground-type normally would never check in physical Waters. Since Ice Beam is stronger, it still will not be more than a shaky check to special Waters, but it's an option as well. Not much else changes, but the reduction of Water-types as threats is more than enough when this metagame is more of a FWG based one.

What if Meganium got Wish and Thick Fat?
Well that's certainly a niche over Tangela. Wish support is pretty uncommon, as only Lickilicky really is common enough, so that's less competition right there. Good overall bulk and defensive typing is a plus, and losing two weaknesses only helps Meganium out more. Trouble is that it still has the fundamental problem of non-Regenerator Wish passers, in that it relies on receiving its own Wish too much, especially since it doesn't gain much HP from Giga Drain with its mediocre offensive presence. Certainly will have use, as being a full stop to special Water-types (bar Swanna) is a fantastic niche, but I wouldn't think that the Wish capability will be that huge. Synthesis may still be more popular so that it can stick around longer and keep Waters in check.

What if Metang had Heatproof?
Fewer weaknesses is always a good thing, though I still wouldn't switch Metang in on Fire-types regardless. Taking less damage from Burn is alright, but it doesn't prevent the Atk halving, so meh. Tanking HP Fire would be notable if there were more Pokemon that carried it.

P.S.- I missed this variant of Theorymon, never liked the competition based one.
Here's one of my own:

What if Chimecho got Baton Pass and Memento?
Two boosts is a lot, but Chimecho needs all it can get to differentiate itself from other Psychic-types. Now, it already gets Healing Wish, so you may be wondering why I'm suggesting Memento? Well, this gives Chimecho a choice of what type of utility it provides, and what type of team it supports. For set up sweepers, Memento is better simply because it helps such sweepers set up easily, especially combined with Dual Screens. Healing Wish is better for offensive teams that don't stack set up sweepers, to give such Pokemon a second chance; it's also better for mid-late game, whereas Memento can be used early game as well and still provide a benefit. What about the free switch that an early game Healing Wish provides? That's where Baton Pass comes in, creating momentum easily due to Chimecho's low Speed but usable special bulk. You keep the momentum that a sacrifice move provides, but can keep Chimecho around longer, maybe to actually use the sacrifice move at a more advantageous time. Sure, you can pass Calm Mind, Charge Beam boosts, Cosmic Power, Substitute, and Curse boosts (along with Screens), but the real benefit is the momentum. These moves make Chimecho all about momentum control, which is certainly a major benefit (I wouldn't worry about this level of support being too much due to the fact that Chimecho is still slow and physically frail, but I could be wrong). Theories?

 

[teamdreamers412]

Rapid Spin Golem: There aren't too many leads that will set up rocks against Golem and Golem can reliably spin on so its main lead set doesn't benefit from it. Its offensive set with Weakness Policy won't want to drop a move for Spin. Custap sets might see a use for it, but there are faster defoggers. I guess I would appreciate it, but more because it'll be another Rapid Spinner rather than a good one. It also lacks recovery so a more utility focused set wouldn't work as well as as soon as its Sturdy gets broken it has two major weaknesses that'll just KO it.

Water Absorb Stunfisk: Stunfisk would love this boon as it would make it a great check to many mons that are currently dominating the tier as well as giving it a way to achieve recovery. And it still has amazing bulk so even common coverage moves that'll it be switching in to won't kill it and it would be able to reliably KO back. To be honest it may even be too good. Its amazing bulk and unique typing will allow it to easily handle the Water spam we have, the counters to the water spam, the shell smashers, and just plenty of top tier threats.

Wish and Thick Fat Meganium: Thick Fat Grass-Types are just amazing as Mega-Venu shows the resistance to Water and Ice-Types moves therefore walling many common sweepers we have now as well as resistance to Boltbeam would both be a valuable niche. Its main problem is that it still fails to do something most of time and having to drop an additional move for Wish/Protect isn't that nice. It'll probably wind up mimicking Lickilicky's set of Wish, Protect, Dragon Tail, Aromatherapy/Heal Bell. It'll be a nice bulky cleric with unique resistances.

Heatproof Metang: I think Metang is more hurt by Knock-Off or Ground-Type moves personally rather than Fire. Not many mons run coverage fire moves and the ones that carry STAB (Ninetales and Rapidash) still do massive damage to it. Ninetales still two shots and Rapidash does about 40%. And if it gets burned...it can't retaliate all too well.

Baton Pass + Memento Chimecho: Chimecho would probably gain something like 4MSS from this. It kind of needs all of the utility moves it has now. Healing Wish + Memento + Baton Pass + something where its not Taunt fodder. But it also needs Recover for healing itself, Wish and Heal Bell to play cleric until it is ready to die, and Taunt to prevent mons from setting up on it. On top of that it lacks enough Speed and bulk to reliably get off a Memento if it has any prior damage unlike Jumpluff and Misdreavus. I just think Chimecho is too slow as it is. I just think most of the match it would sit around until you're ready to kill it.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Baton Pass + Memento Chimecho: Chimecho would probably gain something like 4MSS from this. It kind of needs all of the utility moves it has now. Healing Wish + Memento + Baton Pass + something where its not Taunt fodder. But it also needs Recover for healing itself, Wish and Heal Bell to play cleric until it is ready to die, and Taunt to prevent mons from setting up on it. On top of that it lacks enough Speed and bulk to reliably get off a Memento if it has any prior damage unlike Jumpluff and Misdreavus. I just think Chimecho is too slow as it is. I just think most of the match it would sit around until you're ready to kill it.

I don't see anyone using Wish and Heal Bell on it when it has many better options to use. Recover is nice I guess. You certainly won't use both Memento and Healing Wish on the same set, it depends on the type of team, like I said. Chimecho also gets Taunt, which is likely better to hit opposing Taunts on the switch than rely on a rather weak Psychic. So Recover / Baton Pass / Taunt|Psychic / Memento|Healing Wish would to be perfectly viable for this theorymon. I also see a Dual Screen, BP, and Memento/HW set working somewhat for hyper offensive teams. It gets competition from Jumpluff and Mr. Mime, but now it at least CAN compete (theoretically).

 

[teamdreamers412]

I don't see anyone using Wish and Heal Bell on it when it has many better options to use. Recover is nice I guess. You certainly won't use both Memento and Healing Wish on the same set, it depends on the type of team, like I said. Chimecho also gets Taunt, which is likely better to hit opposing Taunts on the switch than rely on a rather weak Psychic. So Recover / Baton Pass / Taunt|Psychic / Memento|Healing Wish would to be perfectly viable for this theorymon. I also see a Dual Screen, BP, and Memento/HW set working somewhat for hyper offensive teams. It gets competition from Jumpluff and Mr. Mime, but now it at least CAN compete (theoretically).

Sorry I was going off its smogdex entry which says Heal Bell and Wish are moves it runs. I don't see them at all so I was using that as the best set. That was a my bad as its generally just support and those two moves are support moves.
And like I said I still think Chimecho is extremely slow and frail, although the Dual Screens set isn't something I thought of which would correct one problem and definitely ease a switch-in with Memento or Healing Wish. It would basically equal a set-up for whatever comes in. But it does pretty much changes my entire mind about this idea if you can just force something out you can set up a Reflect and then Memento/Healing Wish. And after looking into it it also gets Magic Coat, which can reflect Taunt.
I just believe that it'll be outclassed with either Healing Wish or Memento as its competition is just better at it with more offensive presence and better speed. So its only benefit will be in keeping your opponent guessing what move it is.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Sorry I was going off its smogdex entry which says Heal Bell and Wish are moves it runs. I don't see them at all so I was using that as the best set. That was a my bad as its generally just support and those two moves are support moves.
And like I said I still think Chimecho is extremely slow and frail, although the Dual Screens set isn't something I thought of which would correct one problem and definitely ease a switch-in with Memento or Healing Wish. It would basically equal a set-up for whatever comes in. But it does pretty much changes my entire mind about this idea if you can just force something out you can set up a Reflect and then Memento/Healing Wish. And after looking into it it also gets Magic Coat, which can reflect Taunt.
I just believe that it'll be outclassed with either Healing Wish or Memento as its competition is just better at it with more offensive presence and better speed. So its only benefit will be in keeping your opponent guessing what move it is.

Don't underestimate the power of a slow Baton Pass. You don't need to invest in Speed, though you could creep. There aren't that many Taunt users in PU, with Misdreavus and Vigoroth being the most common (Kriketune fell out of favor a while ago). Plus you can Taunt them on the switch-in, which is usually better than relying on Magic Coat. It certainly would face competition (Clefairy does bulky Healing Wish, Mr. Mime does fast HW, and Jumpluff does Memento), which is where BP comes in to differentiate it as a slow supporting pivot.

 

[ExplosiveChaos]

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
Golem with Rapid Spin is handy, but I can't really think of many scenarios where you would want to use it. Maybe as a lead, where you use Stealth Rocks first turn. If the attacks you, use Custab Berry Earthquake. If the opponent rocks, use EQ until it attacks you and then get off rocks off you side with a 1HP Custab Berry Rapid Spin so you have rocks and the opponent doesn't. Design wise, Golem doesn't really seem to fit in terms of a spinner, but that is just my opinion. So yeah, Rapid Spin seems kind of situational and I doubt it would make a huge difference in Golem's viability.
What if Stunfisk got Water Absorb?
That would be a treat. Stunfisk would take a whole new level of viability. It is already good, but being able to check so much more attacks and Pokemon is great. It does have to worry about Ice Beam coverage on Water-types, but that Water-type immunity seems really handy, especially in a tier filled with water spam. New check for Carra and Barb, but those won't be here long for much. I don't know if Stunfisk would be S rank, but I feel like it would definitely be high up in that A+ rank. Water Absorb also has the plus of healing Stunfisk, which is a plus for a Pokemon without reliable recovery.
What if Meganium got Wish and Thick Fat?
I kind of like that idea. Meganium will probably finally come out of its E rank and go probably in the C Rank. I feel like Wish support will be pretty good because Meganium has the HP for it to be pretty useful. 2 less weaknesses is also really nice to have for such a defensive Pokemon, and it checks Water-types pretty well now. I don't think anyone would use it a ton, mostly because this tier is such an offensive one, but I am sure it would of had its instances would it of been useful.
Heatproof Metang:
I don't feel like it would do much for Metang. Yes, it is handy, but there is one big problem. Because of the flood (ha ha ha...) of Water-types in PU, there really has been a drought (I AM SO FUNNY!11!1!) when it comes to Fire-types. In all seriousness, Fire-types moves and coverage isn't that common in PU, and I don't feel like it would make Metang so much better. Design wise, Levitate is so much clearer as an ability. Metang is always shown as off the grown levitating, in the games and anime. Levitate would really add a more relevant Immunity.
Baton Pass + Memento Chimecho:
That actually (and surprisingly) doesn't sound aweful. The number of utility that Chimecho would be even greater, and it would make it truly unpredictable to what set Chimecho is using. Memento and Healing Wish do vastly different things and the opponent will have a hard time trying to guess which one Chimecho is using. BP is great for momentum. Although Wish would be usable, the low HP stat makes it so I don't really think it is worth it to run because you probably want to run Chimecho as a healthy utility and it can't do that getting hit 2 turns in a row to get 1 turn of recovery. And of course, Screens + Memento + Taunt / Psychic is always usuable to prepare a sweep for Linoone or such.

 

[MZ]

Whatifliterallyanythinggotmentolol

Will contribute to this more, just popping in to say that going more in depth about one mon's change and how it affects the meta is pretty cool instead of doing a few things for every discussion point, since it looks like people only respond to everything and they do every suggestion (not that that's bad either).

What if Misdreavus got agility? We could obviously see the rise of some sweeper sets or even dual dance but what would that mean for the meta if a mon that capitalizes on slower/weaker mons but fares worse against offense could now boost speed? How would we check it would it see increased viability, what might become more commonplace?

 

[teamdreamers412]

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
Design wise, Golem doesn't really seem to fit in terms of a spinner, but that is just my opinion.

Golem actually got Rapid Spin in Gen 2 by an event. Just an interesting factoid.
I actually do want to go back and add something to Golem getting Rapid Spin as people (myself included) immediately jumped to the conclusion that it'll automatically be running Stealth Rocks as that's it best set (and having an additional Stealth Rocker on your team will be hard to manage). It'll will become one of the few Rapid Spin users who actually resists Stealth Rock (which is sorely needed in this tier). While it'll be hard to fit it on a team that uses Stealth Rock it may still be nice to clear Stealth Rocks and spikes without takes a quarter of your health. Plus it'll actually be incredibly offensive still. As WhiteDMist stated its easier said than done especially with Water Spam being so insanely common you probably don't want to give them a free switch-in, but I think it may still see use as maybe a B- rank set just cause it'll resist Stealth Rocks and won't sacrifice offensive power as much as Wartortle. Armaldo's sets don't always run Stealth Rocks so Golem may get a similar set.
You'll need to use a non-Water weak Stealth Rocker, but Probo, Metang, and Clefairy are all still viable. So it'll probably see a rise just cause it'll be performing an additional role, but it won't see a bump in viability at all.

Don't underestimate the power of a slow Baton Pass. You don't need to invest in Speed, though you could creep. There aren't that many Taunt users in PU, with Misdreavus and Vigoroth being the most common (Kriketune fell out of favor a while ago). Plus you can Taunt them on the switch-in, which is usually better than relying on Magic Coat. It certainly would face competition (Clefairy does bulky Healing Wish, Mr. Mime does fast HW, and Jumpluff does Memento), which is where BP comes in to differentiate it as a slow supporting pivot.

My problem isn't with a slow Baton Pass its with a Slow and not an exactly bulky Baton Pass.The set you mentioned just doesn't do anything outside of Healing Wish/Memento as its Attack isn't that great unless its invested and I'm guessing you'd want more EVs in SpDef and HP, so it'll just be a little weak. And it can't exactly Taunt Misdreavus as its STAB Shadow Ball will do a number of Chimecho unless you out speed it, in which case you need a lot of investment for the offensive Misdreavus. I guess I just don't see it getting that much of niche over its competition for anything other than surprise value of people wondering 'which set is this' and how do I counter it and I'd rather just get a mon that fulfills the niche better without having to sacrifice power.
Then again I'm only looking the Healing Wish/Memento side of things. Baton Pass is nice support that would help it out as a pivot, but I think it'll just rack up too much damage for being slow.

 

[Akir]

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
A spinner that resists rocks? In PU? I'm sold! I can definitely see Golem running an offensive set with Rapid Spin that both spins for offense and checks Normal/Flying spam. Defensive sets would also be good, but the Rock/Ground typing is pretty poor in our tier filled with Water and Grass special attackers. Does give Golem 4mss, but the potential of a Normal, Flying, and Rock resist that spins is pretty notable.

What if Stunfisk got Water Absorb?
That is a good idea...since it lives in water. This would make Stunfisk an even better pivot, now that it would have the ability to heal and 1 more immunity to a popular type. Most Water carry Ice Beam though, so it's possible that the gain from this new ability is limited. The loss of Static can also be seen as a problem since the defensive tank now has a harder time paralyzing...and I swear I would never say that about any other poke but Stunfisk.

I'll leave the others for more discussion from others, but I actually have an idea that has been dogging me for a while: What if Stunfisk got Volt Switch?
I know Stunfisk is already up, but think of it as building on Megazard's idea. It wouldn't be too breaking since a lot of the switches into Stunfisk are Ground, but balance and defensive play would LOVE such a slow switch priority. Stunfisk tanks a hit from an attacker on the switch, and then Volt Switch on the opponent's switch. It would add good momentum to balance and add a defensive pivot for Voltturn too.

 

[WhiteDMist]

My problem isn't with a slow Baton Pass its with a Slow and not an exactly bulky Baton Pass.The set you mentioned just doesn't do anything outside of Healing Wish/Memento as its Attack isn't that great unless its invested and I'm guessing you'd want more EVs in SpDef and HP, so it'll just be a little weak. And it can't exactly Taunt Misdreavus as its STAB Shadow Ball will do a number of Chimecho unless you out speed it, in which case you need a lot of investment for the offensive Misdreavus. I guess I just don't see it getting that much of niche over its competition for anything other than surprise value of people wondering 'which set is this' and how do I counter it and I'd rather just get a mon that fulfills the niche better without having to sacrifice power.
Then again I'm only looking the Healing Wish/Memento side of things. Baton Pass is nice support that would help it out as a pivot, but I think it'll just rack up too much damage for being slow.

You certainly won't try to Taunt Misdreavus if it's already in battle, like I said you Taunt it on the switch. The point of a slow Baton Pass is to absorb the damage for a teammate and then give them a safe switch in, so that is actually a good thing. Finally, I simply pointed out 1 viable set, and with the versatility of these theorymon moves, the are other sets that can be run (CM, Dual Screens, TWave support pivot in a Musharna fashion, pure support/utility). Baton Pass on its own is already a big difference, but Memento would give Chimecho another option so that it can alter its set for the type of team its on more easily.

 

[ExplosiveChaos]

What if Misdreavus got agility: That seems like good idea. Misdreavus has good attack and defenses. But it's downfall as a setup sweeper is speed. I feel like double dance would be really neat to cover all of Misdreavus's weaknesses. Go lead into a Piloswine, setup on them because they either will fear a burn / Taunt, or do little damage to you, and then do huge damage to the enemy's team with +2 Speed and Sp.Atk. Also, you can choose which is the one you want to use first. Probably Agility first for HO and Nasty first for Bulky Offense.

Misdreavus @ Etiolate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt / Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Bolt / Dazzling Gleam
- Agility

I am thinking of something like that. I haven't done the EVs yet, but that was kind of the idea I had. You outspeed everything in PU and then nail the enemy with Shadow Balls.

 

[MZ]

We could give metang good abilities or give bronzor stats+a few moves and it'd be the same thing lol

Since Anty hated on agility, What if Misdreavus got recover?
What if Marowak got Rock Polish?
What if Electabuzz got Sheer Force? (Feel free to suggest other abilities here, I'd just like to see discussion on what would happen if Buzz got a better niche over its superior electric brethren).

Remember, we know these will improve the viability of the affected Pokemon. How would these buffs change the meta, what new ideas might we see to counter them?

 

[Akir]

What if Electabuzz got Sheer Force?
Well, I still think I would use Zebstrika over Electabuzz. 116 speed is too good to pass up imo. So in conjunction to other Electric types, I don't think Electabuzz would gain that much viability. Electabuzz is slower and can't set up either...but there are benefits to giving Electabuzz Sheer Force:

Electabuzz @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Psychic/Hidden Power Ice

As it turns out, Psychic after a Sheer Force boost has comparable power to a super effective HP Ice.

252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 187-221 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electabuzz Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 182-214 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It does also have the added benefit of 2hkoing Roselia:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electabuzz Psychic vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 88-104 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 1.7% chance to 3HKO

The only real benefit of using HP Ice over Psychic is 0hkoing 4x weaknesses such as Jumpluff or Gabite. However, Psychic is still a 2hko on both of the examples.

Also, Focus Blast gets a notable power boost as well, making Lickilicky go from a counter to a shaky check. The combo of Focus Blast + Thunderbolt can kill most of the time with rocks up:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electabuzz Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 265-315 (62.5 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 149-177 (35.1 - 41.7%) -- 81% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I really do think that this LO set will be a fantastic set for Electabuzz and shift it from discount Raichu to a great fast attacker and would be a boon to Voltturn in particular that needs a heavier attacker than Zebstrika that doesn't need to set up to 2hko walls.

As for a metagame reaction...Stunfisk will forever be a counter, and 105 speed is good but not impossible to outspeed and revenge kill so there is not a lot of reason for the tier to adapt to Sheer Force Electabuzz. I can still see Raichu and Zebstrika still being used more as well because they are both faster and Raichu has Nasty Plot to set up. Overall, I feel like Electabuzz might jump up a few viability ranks thanks to the fact that a decent number of its counters no longer work, but won't be too big of a splash in PU.

 

[MaroGod]

What if Golem got Rapid Spin?
A cool idea and it would be nice to have Hazard removal thats not weak to SR and viable (bard Vibrava) im not quite sure how golem would be used after however...Would it be Bulky Offense,Fully defensive or the current standard spread? I would love to see how differently it could of been used.

What if Stunfisk got Water Absorb?
This would be fun and very good in the heavy water meta and it would counter the likes of Pelipper,Swanna,Bascullin,Simipour,Floatzel (the latter two im iffy about) and quite a few other mons. It might be a little broken at first but we can never truly know for sure again i really cool idea though.

What if Meganium got Wish and Thick Fat?
I love this idea a lot and it would actually compete as a grass-type on teams. id think it would be very popular since it can run both Physically and Specially defensive spreads thanks to its balanced bulk. Wish is great on Bulky Offensive/Stall teams (stall could possibly be more relevant because of it) and thick fat has always been a great ability but its doesn't necessarily mean it would like coming in on fire/ice attacks depending on its EV spread.

Sadly since it is only Moves/Abilities in this theory mon i cant do what i was originally planning so i guess ill just add something else.

What if Gigalith got Diamond Storm and Synthesis?
Gigalith is a heavily Outclassed by Golem,Piloswine and Solrock as SR setters which is a shame. Its very physically bulky even has some nice special bulk and a whopping Atk stat. Diamond Storm is similar to Stone Edge in power but has 95% accuracy and has a 50% raise Gigaliths already whopping defense stat it makes sense since Gigalith is literally just a walking rock with crystals jammed into it. Synthesis may seem like a completely unrealistic option on it but looking through its pokedex entries constantly state on how it absorbs "Solar Rays/Energy" which is practically how synthesis works. It would be very cool since unlike Golem/Piloswine it has recovery and it is much stronger then Solrock Atk wise. Originally i was gonna suggest Rock/Grass typing based off the whole solar thing its got going on but this looks pretty legit as well.

 

[Magnemite]

Honestly Synthesis Gigalith would be pretty cool. Its main use would be as the most reliable Dodrio check in the tier, as it is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird (with sr), so it can basically always switch in and spam Synthesis as Dodrio dies to recoil. It would still be a worse offensive mon than Golem, but defensively it would actually have a niche. Diamond Storm wouldn't really increase its viability, it would basically just be an upgraded STAB option, still nice but alone it wouldn't really make it better by that much.

 

[MaroGod]

Honestly Synthesis Gigalith would be pretty cool. Its main use would be as the most reliable Dodrio check in the tier, as it is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird (with sr), so it can basically always switch in and spam Synthesis as Dodrio dies to recoil. It would still be a worse offensive mon than Golem, but defensively it would actually have a niche. Diamond Storm wouldn't really increase its viability, it would basically just be an upgraded STAB option.

Diamond Storm admittedly is iffy to me since it can yet it cant at the same time and by that I mean the defence boost

Yes it would be in only certain circumstances and its if you get the actual raise at all but it could be clutch

I dunno i was just thinking of that more or less over then just not missing a ton

 

[MZ]

sigh

What if Marowak got Rock Polish?
What if Wartortle got Stealth Rock?
What if all Wormadam forms got both Sticky Web and Stealth Rock?

 

[MaroGod]

What if Wartortle got Stealth Rock?
It would be pretty good but no reliable recovery/Offensive presence still diminishes the appeal. Its set would be something like Scald, SR, Rapid Spin, Foresight/Toxic. Not being weak to rocks is nice but your still taking 12% each time you come in on them which would add up over time. It also seems like WishBell licki would be used a lot in conjunction just so you can keep your hazard remover/setter alive over time.

What if all Wormadam forms got both Sticky Web and Stealth Rocks?
It would be interesting i guess. All forms would compete against an already good H-setter Plain V Leavanny/Trash V Probopass/Sandy V Golem. I dont really know what to make of it since they would all most likely still be bad and slapping on sticky webs (and rock for grass form) doesn't seem like it would benefit them enough over other hazard setters.

Also..

What if Kingler got Tough Claws?
Something ive been thinking about and what could be better then just slapping Waterfall on it and calling it a day.

 

[prismwinter]

What if Slaking got U-turn?
Slaking would become the premier pivot, able to give a good matchup on anything that comes in. It would be extremely one-dimensional though (unless you're real enough to not click U-turn and force Truant to kick in), but it would be nice to see Slaking have some viability.