Project PU Underdog Project: Chinchou

Sobi

Banned deucer.
Idea taken from this thread but adapted
Approved by galbia and Anty
Art by the incredible Ssensenh



Welcome to the PU Underdog Project. This project aims to strike up discussion about some Pokemon lower down in the viability rankings, Pokemon that most people overlook, Pokemon that are often left unexplored, and Pokemon that have their own unique but underrated niche. Every Sunday, a Pokemon from B- and below on the viability rankings will be nominated for discussion. Here are the guidelines to your posts, some topics you should think about when posting your thoughts.
  • The Pokemon
    • What role does it usually play? How should this Pokemon be used?
    • What moveset does it usually run?
    • Does it have a niche that differentiates itself from other PU mons?
    • Are there any alternatives this Pokemon can run?
    • Why is this Pokemon low-ranked? Why is/n't the meta in favour of this Pokemon?
    • What problems does this Pokemon usually face?

  • The Team
    • What Pokemon work well with the Pokemon?
    • Does the Pokemon need support?
      • Which Pokemon support it?
    • What kind of playstyle does the Pokemon work well on?
Remember that a good post does not necessarily have to be half a page long, but rather succinct, concise and to the point. Replays from the Battling Phase are appreciated, as are imports of a team you used / screenshot of a peak, etc. Another thing to remember is how to lay out your post. Like I said, don't make it half a page long, but don't make it extremely short. It is preferred that your post looks nice; sprites are encouraged but not necessary. Remember: if you're not going to put effort into your post, nobody is going to put effort into reading your post!

Topic Of Discussion

 
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Sobi

Banned deucer.
Pokemon

Week #1:

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Sobi

Banned deucer.
okie then, I won't be able to open the posting phase cuz I'll be out, so POSTING PHASE is now open!
here are some guidelines to your post if you can't think of much to say:
  • The Pokemon
    • What role does it usually play? How should this Pokemon be used?
    • What moveset does it usually run?
    • Does it have a niche that differentiates itself from other PU mons?
    • Are there any alternatives this Pokemon can run?
    • Why is this Pokemon low-ranked? Why is/n't the meta in favour of this Pokemon?
    • What problems does this Pokemon usually face?
  • The Team
    • What Pokemon work well with the Pokemon?
    • Does the Pokemon need support?
      • Which Pokemon support it?
    • What kind of playstyle does the Pokemon work well on?
I look forward to seeing some of the posts, remember that they will be judged, and the best post will go in the hall of fame! good luck!
 
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Summary (Of Faults): pros will come later ;)
Marowak, at times can be a great wallbreaker especially in the TR team I used it in. I didn't use Marowak as my anti-lead because, from my point of view an anti-lead's purpose is to kill a setter before it sets up rocks, which Marowak is unable to due without TR, additionally I had carbink which had a better time against leads like Leavanny. Throughout my game Maro only came out when the majority of it's checks i.e. Bulky grasses, were are a minuscule amount of health. That's the main problem I had with Marowak and the reason 50% of the time used it in the majority of my games is that it requires a ton of support. A good knock off or scald can send Maro's health to zero, and without the use of TR Marowak got outsped by anything not named Audino or Gourgeist. There are, although, options to mitigate these issues.


Support:
In order to mitigate the issue I, with the help of ShuckleDeath, ManofMany, and Amberrlamps were able to construct a core with Marowak that did pretty well against most teams I faced . The core was:

,
and


The point of Maro and Lapras was to nail the team down from both sides of the damage spectrum, additionally the team has nice synergy. Lapras deals with waters that threaten Maro w/ Freeze dry. Maro takes on electrics for Lapras. and Jumpluff rounds the core out, sets up on grasses and picks off survivors of Maro and Lapras' purge.

Of course this is most effective w/ Trick room.

The Set:
I ran a Marowak set of Sub, Bonemerang, Stone Edge and Knock off, Max HP and Max Attack 4 Def, Brave Nature and zero IVs in speed. . I didn't consider the use of double edge because there are no mons in PU capable of resisting the two moves and I usually used Knock off to scout for possible switches in times of uncertainty. Sub was useful as it allowed me mostly to evade burns and stick around even past TR. I decided to opt over SR for two reasons. Firstly I already had an SR setter on my team. Secondly, and thanks Teddeh for the tip, Marowak just want to get in the game and whack people. As I've stated prior it needs TR in order to be effective. The last thing for my set were my EVs. The reason I opt for this EV/IV spread is because it maximized Marowak's bulk in exchange for its mediocre speed which in this meta, running rampant of Floatzels and Leafeons, EVs in speed seem almost pointless and also because I was running TR as I've said at least a million times now.

Status:
Marowak is now sitting in the C+ section of the viability ranking and the reason why are very apparent. In nearly all the teams I faced through my marathon there was always a water, grass or ice mon standing somewhere. The fact that these checks are so common reason hinders it's effectiveness. In hindsight the only reason I was capable of busting through them was because of Lapras and Pluff and on occasion TR, which once again shows how much support it needs to get off its feet.

I honestly think Marowak should be treated as a sweeper, something to take the team by storm mid-late game when its checks are fainted. Not something to spam it's stabs like per say Lapras. Those are the times when Marowak got the most effectiveness for me, Any mon without a resistance to the moves often were 2HKO'd.

Niche: (The not-so-grand Finale)

As I said before Marowak makes a great move spammer mid-late game in TR teams. And that just it's niche over Gabite and Golem. With it's power, thanks to thick club it is able to split teams in half, especially with TR set up and many top tier threats don't exactly scoff off it's hits. All in all, Marowak has a ton of common counters, but with a bit of: Knock off absorber, Water, and everything trick room, it can be a very potent threat.

Thanks for reading my thoughts of Marowak, and going through 60% theory-mon. Let's hope MaroGod doesn't roast me

/dt Rawst Berry
 
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dibs

leader of the cute user rw fanclub
is a Tiering Contributor
Right, i'm down for this project and actually want it to pick up steam so I guess it's my go, and ima just go down the list point by point.

Although Marowak is largely seen as an offensive stealth rocker, I feel like the mon should be used more as a wallbreaker, opting for substitute over stealth rocks. This is largely due to Marowaks thick club making it an initial threat when sent out, meaning you'll just want to click an attack to start chunking things instead of opting for a more passive turn of setting stealth rocks. Substitute helps it achieve this when subbing on a switch, letting you get at least 1 hit in before switching out regardless of its low base speed of 45.

Marowak can be seen as having a few niches, the ability to use thick club which comes as both a strength and a weakness and the access to bonemerang as its primary STAB over earthquake. Although the ability to use thick club can be seen as a strength, it also makes Marowak similar to eviolite users in the way that a lot of its role comes from holding an item, which is a huge disadvantage in a metagame where knock off is already so common. The access to bonemerang helps it function as an anti-lead by threatning OHKOs on sturdy mons and focus sash users. This gives it positive matchups against sash Kadabra, the infamous Golem and other less popular leads and anti-leads such as Rampardos. It also hits through subs, although this isn't very present in PU and only helps combat the likes of Regigigas and substitute calm mind sets like Grumpig.

As for other options, Marowak has a respectable bulk spread of 60/110/80, making defensive sets such as spDef sets an option. These sets are held back by the pressure to run thick club to be a threat, making you miss out on leftovers and therefore leaves you without recovery. This becomes an issue when the functionality of the set includes switching in on volt switches, which gives you a free turn of leftovers recovery. Alternatively, Marowak can opt towards a more mixed set with some small investment and its coverage of fire blast and ice beam to hit common switch ins such as Tangela and Gourgeist-XL. This would be comparable to life orb Rampardos who generally does it better asides from the ground typing.

Marowak faces difficulties in the meta by being closely compared to Golem, who is much more favored due to its dual STAB over mono STAB, its priority and its superior ability sturdy, whilst also not being item dependent. All of this allows it to run a variety of threatening sets, with suicide weakness policy lead Golem being a huge threat to unprepared teams and the leftovers slot making it much better as a specially defensive electric check. The dominance and popularity of Golem also means that teams are built with a ground resist in mind, meaning teams are indirectly prepared to face Marowak without being a presence in the metagame. This coupled with the rise of Gourgeist-XL give Marowak a hard time when fighting for a spot during team building.

Marowak benefits largely from speed control and an effective way of breaking down bulky grass types. The most viable form of speed control would be heavy paralysis spread as trick room is predictable and limited in the time you have to be effective, and sticky web focused teams are hard to execute due to the meta being heavy in the number of viable hazard removal mons. Because of this, and because of the popular bulky grass switch ins I think Regice would be a great partner for Marowak. Regice can switch in and threaten most water and grass types which threaten Marowak with bolt-beam coverage. It is also one of the better thunder wave spreading candidates by scaring off ground types who want to switch in for the immunity with STAB ice beam.

In conclusion, Marowaks lack of viable options, item dependency and high demand for speed control without much reward makes it hard to execute smoothly and ends up making a team feel clunky. All of these factors make it difficult to fight for a spot whilst teambuilding when other flexible and more consistent options are available in the tier.
 
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Sobi

Banned deucer.
okay then, thank you very much Cynan and Dibs The Dreamer for posting their thoughts; voting phase now begins and will last until tomorrow when I will announce whose post goes into the Hall of Fame.
 

Sobi

Banned deucer.
The votes have been sent in, and the post that will go into the Hall of Fame is.. Dibs The Dreamer 's! Well done to them! Both posts were really good but Dibs focused on both the positives and negatives whilst Cynan focused too much on Trick Room only. Nevertheless, thank you to both of you for your posts and Dibs's post will feature in the Hall of Fame.

Week 2

Munchlax is a great wall thanks to its high HP and Special Defense; its access to Eviolite further boosts its defenses, meaning it can tank many hits with absolute ease. It is not at all passive due to a decent Attack stat and access to Curse, turning it into a threat after it gets off a boost. However, it lacks recovery and relies on a rather weak Body Slam as its main STAB move, leaving it walled by Ghost-types. That being said, battling phase is open!
 

Sobi

Banned deucer.
I hope people hoping to post have been practising with
on the PU ladder, because until Friday night, posting phase is open! I'm hoping for more posts than last time because
is a bit more versatile than
so yeah, I'm looking forward to the posts. Remember the guidelines for your post:
  • The Pokemon
    • What role does it usually play? How should this Pokemon be used?
    • What moveset does it usually run?
    • Does it have a niche that differentiates itself from other PU mons?
    • Are there any alternatives this Pokemon can run?
    • Why is this Pokemon low-ranked? Why is/n't the meta in favour of this Pokemon? (metagame knowledge gives you plus points)
    • What problems does this Pokemon usually face?
  • The Team
    • What Pokemon work well with the Pokemon?
    • Does the Pokemon need support?
      • Which Pokemon support it?
    • What kind of playstyle does the Pokemon work well on?
Remember that a good post does not necessarily have to be half a page long, but rather succinct, concise and to the point. Replays from the Battling Phase are appreciated, as are imports of a team you used / screenshot of a peak, etc. Another thing to remember is how to lay out your post. Like I said, don't make it half a page long, but don't make it extremely short. It is preferred that your post looks nice; sprites are encouraged but not necessary. Remember: if you're not going to put effort into your post, nobody is going to put effort into reading your post!
Good luck!
 

Anty

let's drop
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Munchlax fills a very specific niche in this meta, which is why its so rarely used. It only fits onto very defensive teams, as a special tank, however its role can overlap with Audino's, as running two specially defensive Special walls isn't a great idea, and Audino provides much better utility. Additionally, Munchlax has issues with Fighting-types, Gourgeist, and Knock Off, among others which are pretty popular right now and can severely cripple it. The biggest reason to run it on stall is due to its ability to sponge special hits amazingly, which can allow it to check many random NP users and special wallbreakers which have been used lately to screw over stall, though it is still far from perfect:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 299-354 (63 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 283-335 (59.7 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mr. Mime Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 383-452 (80.8 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah it has to be at a pretty high health to take these (though that is impressive considering most other stallmons just flat out die), though it can take on more niche things like NP Simipour. I tried this set:

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Toxic
Toxic is there to lure in and weaken things like Gourgeist and Quilladin, which otherwise don't really care about lax. Sleep Talk isn't too important on it due to the sheer bulk it has, though it would be pretty nice to scare offensive checks with a Body Slam para. Iirc the EVs are to live Monferno's CC at +1. I didn't use the team too much (not just because stall is bad), but because Munchlax was so ineffective and actually comes with an opportunity of not running Audino (or you struggle to check everything else in the remaining 4 slots). Additionally, Munchlax could never sweep as most teams naturally have solid checks to it, whether Machoke or Taunt Quilladin, so ultimately Munchlax is just ineffective. Thick Fat isn't as good as it was, as Rotom-f can Trick and Regice can hurt it with Focus Blast, and Ninetales is not close to as big a threat as it was a year ago, when it was the main stallbreaker. Overall I find it hard justifying use of Munchlax, as though in theory it checks a lot, in practise it can get pressured by many common Pokemon, and isn't easy to build around.

It gets Gluttony and Self-destruct tho.
 
Summary:

Munchlax claims the title of being one of the bulkiest mons in PU. Backed with 135/85 Special Bulk, it can easily pivot into special attacks from even strong wallbreakers. It's attack stat is also just enough to lay solid dents on mons who do not resist its STAB body slam. Due to this flexibility Munchlax is able to act as a tank for Offensive teams and balanced teams and can sponge heavy hits from wallbreakers like the NP Simis and Raichu, all of which can seriously lay holes in stall teams. Unfortunately for Munchlax it is greatly outclassed offensively and defensively by Audino and Lickylicky respectively. Audino has far better utility: access to wish, heal bell, and Lickylicky can SD to become as equal of a threat with greater coverage. In addition, Munchlax relies on restalk to keep healthy and sustain pressure, which as we all know from Sleep Talk rest, isn't 100% reliable.

Set:

Munchlax runs a possible of two sets. The first one, Curselax, has an EV spread of 252 HP, 252 SP.D and 4 Attck. Curselax, as the name implies runs Curse a long with Body slam, Rest and Sleep Talk. The objective of curselax is to attack the enemy late game when it's checks and counters are gone, ghosts, fightings, steels and rocks can all stop Munchlax on its rampage either by negating its damage and forcing a switch, in the case of ghosts, rocks and steels and KO it in the case of fightings and make it lose its eviolite in the case of Machoke and Meinfoo. There are, of course, options to mitigate this issue.

Team and Core:
+
+
(Tank)

Golem KOs Steels w/ stab Earthquake and can wear down walls it lures such as Gourgeist and toxics them, putting them effectively in a timer. In addition Golem can set up rocks which assist in wearing down the team for Munchlax to sweep late game. Murkrow traps ghosts w/ pursuit and checks fighting type mons with a STAB Brave bird. Both these mons pave the way for Munchlax's destruction. A grass type in the team is great as well, but for the sake of a three mon core these are the priorities, as for a ground check, I've had the most success with Leafeon
.


2nd Set:

The lesser known set of Munchlax is one more favored in stall teams. The EV spread is 252 HP, 132 Def, and 120 SP.D, the moves are: Body slam, Whirlwind, Rest and Sleep Talk. Why this is favored for stall teams is simple, the EV spread allows it to be more versatile as a sponge allowing it with 132 DEF to tank hits from uninvested physical attacks and Whilwind can be used to rack up hazard damage, speeding up stall's objective: to wear down the enemy team.

Status:

Munchlax now rests on the C+ Rank of the viability rankings and for good reason too, for most teams mons like Grumpig and Audino are much more desirable. Grumpig, for example, is another bulky pivot, but unlike Munchlax sports the neat resistance to fighting and while it does have issues with darks like Pawniard, it can KO them with Focus blast, while Munchlax either must switch resulting in your team losing momentum in a match and losing your curse boosts after your encounter a ghost, steel or rock who can easily tank Munchlax's hits. This problem is even further worsened by the fact that these mons are quite common in PU, particularly Golem.


Golem - #1 in PU | Usage: 15.85391% | Raw count: 26,730 | Weight: 0.674846842147


On the topic of Audino, Dino just edges out on Munchlax due to its access to wish, heal bell, thunder wave and knock off, all tightly wrapped together. These moves are all a great help to a team as they allow it to keep taking hits and the moveset can also hinder the opponents ability to do enormous splashes of damage. The biggest issue is that these two mons cannot fit in the same team together. The process results in a huge role overlap and a birthday party for Monferno and Machoke, so most player are opt to choose the mon with the most utility
.




Munchlax's saving grace is it's incredible bulk with the Eviolite, raising it's defenses to 474/169/443 and 474/245/356 for each respective set. Its SP.D bulk cannot be compared to other mons in PU and it offers a great pivot to come into an attack and dish out damage in return. Late game it can unleash its inner COD Squeaker and set up curses to sweep the enemy team.

All in all, Munchlax is a great pivot and tank on teams. It can do a solid chunk of damage on most unresisted foes and is best used on Offensive teams from my experience i.e. Bulky Offense, Hyper Offense(No other bulky mons in your team if you are to use it), and Offensive Balance. There are simply just better options like Grumpig and Audino for Stall, (that isn't to say there it is 100% useless, but with issues of type synergy or roles it just complicates things.).

/dt Rawst Berry
 

dibs

leader of the cute user rw fanclub
is a Tiering Contributor
Right round 2, I guess. This weeks been hard because it was hard enough building with Munchlax, and then we got Mawile to make it even harder mid-week.

Munchlax's main use is as a bulky set-up win condition, abusing its ridiculous special bulk to set up curses on special attackers and create a safe way to win the game. Aside from this set, Munchlax was also explored as a rest-talking whirlwind candidate during the Vigoroth era, which would now be used on hazard stacking teams to slowly chip away at teams. Munchlax doesn't have an outlying niche aside from its bulk, but a strong part of its options is the ability thick fat to give it fire and ice resist. This may help it grow as a more viable pick in the near future due to Mawile attracting a lot of hype around fire type mons.


Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse/Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Munchlax struggles due to the common things it should in theory be able to check having some sort of way to threaten it. Nasty plot sets have become more popular recently, mainly the Simis and Mr.Mime, which allows them to threaten Munchlax whilst trying to set up with strong focus blasts. Rotom-F's more common choice scarf set is able to threaten a trick, basically rending Munchlax useless for the rest of the game due to losing eviolite bulk and not being able to set up. Regice is able to threaten 2HKOs with focus blast if it is a life orb variant. In addition to this, Munchlax struggles due to Mawile, Munchlax and Machoke being very common and very splashable in the meta, with swords dance variants of Monferno and Mawile taking advantage of Munchlax's predictable and passive move pattern and all 3 having huge offensive pressure on Munchlax.

The curse set requires a lot of team support in order to do its job. Ghost types such as Misdreavus and Dusknoir need to be removed since they wall monoattacking normals, meaning a pursuit trapper such as Dusknoir or Murkrow are much appreciated. Answers to Monferno and Machoke are also appreciated, such as offensive flying type checks and reliable switch ins such as Grumpig and Altaria for Monferno, and Gourgeist-XL for Machoke. Overall, Murkrow is a solid offensive partner for Munchlax as it can fill both of these roles. The more unorthodox whirlwind set appreciates hazard stacking mons such as Roselia Quilladin, Golem or defensive Mawile to help fix Munchlax's issue of being a passive mon whilst spamming whirlwind.

In conclusion, Munchlax suffers from having too many bad match-ups against arguably meta-defining mons. If trends continue and offensive fire types continue to rise in popularity then Munchlax's defensive niches may be able to shine, but even then there are better fire checks that have more flexible and more valued roles.

Super late edit: I calc'd life orb Regice wrong, focus blast is a 3HKO. Welp.
 
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Sobi

Banned deucer.
okay thank you all for your posts, they have been sent to the judging team (Akir has been added to it as well :>) and they will choose the best one.
 

Sobi

Banned deucer.
The judging team voted, and the post that was chosen was Anty 's one, so well done to them. It was concise and to the point, talked about its niche, and also included calcs to support their points. Dibs's post was also a good post, as it talked more about how to use Munchlax, but the majority of the team voted for Anty's post, so their post will be featured in the Hall of Fame.

Week 3

Sporting the highest Attack stat out of all non-legendary Pokemon, access to Sheer Force further boosting its damage output, and a wide movepool, Rampardos looks likes an absolute monster in the PU tier. However, one may look at out fellow dinosaur and think why it's in PU and not NU, RU or even UU with these features. Well, its bulk is terrible, its typing doesn't help, and its Speed is atrocious, meaning that before it even strikes, it'll probably die to a weak super effective attack or a strong neutral attack. That being said, the battling phase is open!​
 

5gen

one man's custard is another man's pudding
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator

I think I first saw Rampardos in the episode where that gym leader faced Ash in a rematch. I remember thinking this poke is a powerhouse, Ash is done for. All these years later when I actually used Ramp for the first time, I realized for myself the power it truly has.

Base 165 attack is monstrous, complimented by it's two abilities (Mold Breaker and Sheer Force). It also has a wide movepool and base 97 HP. The downside of Rampardos is pretty much everything else. Poor defenses and speed leave it vulnerable to common attackers like Monferno, Floatzel, Machoke and others. Pure rock typing isn't bad giving it notable resists like normal or fire, but leaves it weak to ground, fighting and water, common attacking types. Rampardos however can be used to success, it's just difficult to use and requires a fair bit of team support.

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Naughty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Beam/Fire Blast

*Can also go max HP min Spe for Trick Room*

Rampardos @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 144 Atk / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Superpower
- Head Smash
- Surf

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

*Credits to Sir Kay for this set*


There are three main sets Rampardos runs (idk any heat sets); Anti-Lead, All out Attacker and Dual Dance.
  • All out Attacker: This set is used as an early to mid-game wallbreaker as well as stall breaker. Rock Slide gets the LO+Sheer Force boost, becoming pretty strong STAB that's your main move to spam. Superpower is coverage hitting steels and normals, Zen Headbutt for Machoke and poisons like Swalot. Ice Beam or Fire Blast hit grasses such as Gourg, Tangela or Quilladin. Being the slow glass cannon it is, Ramp appreciates being brought in by slow U-Turns, Volt-Switches or Baton-Passes from stuff like Vullaby, Ampharos or Mime (faster users also do well) to avoid taking unnecessary damage. It's wallbreaking abilities open up opportunities for set sweepers or scarfers like Mr. Mime, Floatzel or Raichu. Min speed Ramp with the same set can be used on TR teams, functions very similarly.
  • Anti-Lead: Anti-Lead Rampardos is used to kill opposing leads whilst setting rocks for you. Possible leads such as Golem, Crustle, Relicanth or Roselia are outsped by Ramp and dented by it. Surf OHKOes non-tank Golem, Head Smash kills Rose and Crustle and Superpower does 68-80 to grandpa Reli. The downside of Ramp being a lead is it's kinda hit or miss. Sometimes you predict right and Ramp gets a favorable lead match up while other times it doesn't. Anti-Lead Rampardos is best suited for offensive oriented teams because of it's nature to get rocks==>deal damage==>die.
  • Dual Dance: I got to know this set from Sir Kay's post (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-pu-stage-6-spread-crustle-across-the-block.3560703/page-4#post-6767023"). With Swords Dance and Rock Polish, Rampardos becomes an extremely threatening set-up sweeper. SD boosts your attack stat to ridiculous levels, pretty much giving defensive teams little chance of surviving. Rock Polish combined with max speed allows Ramp to outspeed Scarf Chatot after one RP. Basically, at+2 attack Rampardos cleans defensive teams and +2 speed cleans offense. The problem is it's very vulnerable to priority and requires Memento support in order to set up and sweep. You'll need Memento support from Jumpluff or Misdreavus to give set up opportunities and an answer to it's weaknesses+priority.
Team Options
Rampardos is best suited for offensive teams. AoA sets provide wallbreaking and raw power but needs to be brought in safely by pivots/BP users like
and doubles. Anti-Lead Ramp is most successful on hyper offense teams or hazard stack because of it's suicide lead nature. Dual Dance needs the most support and functions as a wincon on balance or offense.

So Rampardos is currently placed as C+ on the VR. This I believe is a fair rank for this pokemon because yes it's versatile but it needs a lot of support and as Mag once stated in the VR "the main reason i don't like rampardos is that its opportunity cost is pretty big; if it doesn't get to accomplish its intended purpose of stopping an opponent's lead, then it's way worse than if you had just run crustle or golem". By using Rampardos, you're limiting yourself in teambuilding to fill the gaps Ramp opens up, and you can use a more consistent lead in Golem or Crustle. Yeah I would say people overlook this mon but with the proper support or usage it can put in work and be successful. It's niche as an Anti-Lead is really only done by multi-hit users like Leafeon or the heat Anti-Lead Baculin. It's raw power is unmatched in PU and you could say it's poor speed and bulk are equally as bad as it's attack stat is good. All in all a fun mon to use but can be a pain to build around.
 
Summary

Rampardos is one of PU's greatest wallbreakers with an astounding 165 Attack stat and wide coverage. Rampardos can also run a lead set which, in conjunction with Mold Breaker allows it to KO Golem, the most common suicide lead to date with surf, Rampardos also has the bonus of preventing hazard removal with moves like rapid spin and defog utilizing the recoil move headsmash. These options and Rampardos' general surprise factor allows it to be a niche contributor in teams. On the other hand Rampardos is incredibly slow,and Rampardo's bulk doesn't help it either, these problems allow Rampardos to be swiftly and easily revenge killed by mons such as Simipour, Monferno, and Leafeon. Rampardos also competes for roles as a lead by other pokemon such as Monferno and Golem, of which can lay very solid dents on teams and are much less situational. All in all, Rampardos is still a defining lead and wallbreaker, but one with serious rivals.


Wallbreaker
Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Beam/Fire Blast

Lead
Rampardos @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 144 Atk / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Superpower
- Head Smash
- Surf

Double Dance (Rock Polish + Swords Dance)
Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Other mons mentioned:

Gourgeist-Super @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Foul Play

Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
- Fire Blast
- Sucker Punch

Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Jumpluff
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Sleep Powder
- Seed Bomb
- Memento

Simipour @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Low Kick

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass
- Surf

=== [pu] Rampardos ===

Rekt-Pardos (Rampardos) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast

Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
- Fire Blast
- Sucker Punch

Altaria @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 72 SpD / 188 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Cotton Guard

Leafeon @ Yache Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Return
- Knock Off

Simipour @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Usage

Wallbreaker:
The former of the sets is of course a Wallbreaker Rampardos, the set should generally be used in Offensive teams. Thanks to LO and Sheer Force anything Rampardos touches will be severely damaged. , even the pinnacle of physically defensive mons do not scoff off an attack from Pardos.
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 156-185 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 211-250 (63.1 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Zen Headbutt vs. 160 HP / 24 Def Eviolite Machoke: 307-361 (90 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO


Because of lack-lustre bulk Rampardos should be used on predicted switches/protects, Slow U-turn or Volt-switch from Vullaby, Vibrava, Probopass or Ampharos for example, or free switch ins. Rampardos should generally switch into pokemon it can threaten out such as Glaceon, Audino as they take a great deal of damage, and requires a great deal of prediction as Rampardos cannot fail to 2HKO it's slower checks like Tangela or OHKO it's faster checks like Leafeon w/ Ice beam, as they can easily KO it.

Lead:
The Middle set is of course a Suicide lead Rampardos, the set is best used in HO because it can bring momentum or Hazard stack as it can prevent hazard removal. Rampardos should be used at a start of a match, especially if the opponent is carrying a Golem, who is likely to be the lead. In the case of a Golem encounter swiftly go for the surf and set up rocks the turn after. If any other lead comes out, especially waters and grasses, just use stealth rocks as it would have completed its job anyway. Be cautious of mons like Basculin or Leafeon as they often carry anti-lead sets, it is best advised to switch out for a more suitable match up.

Double Dance
The Final set is Double Dance and can work in offense and balanced teams as a win-condition. Scarf Mons and Priority users should be KO'd and Tangela should be at most 2/3rds of it's health after regenerator before Rampardos should begin to set up additionally, Double Dance Rampardos should be brought in after a successful Memento from Jumpluff and proceed to set up on it, it is recommended that rock polish is used first.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 352-417 (99.4 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Proof Rampardos needs Tangela to be worn down.

+
2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Team

Wallbreaker Rampardos' teams should usually consist of stealth rockers, this is important as it can break the sturdy of Tank Golem, who is a serious threat as it can KO Rampardos with Earthquake thanks to sturdy. Sticky Web is a great asset as well as it assist Rampardos in outspeeding threats of lower than 300 speed. Additionally, slow Volt-Turners like Vullaby can dispatch Rampardos to battle without it taking detrimental damage.

(Wallbreaker)+
(Colbur)+
(SD) OR
(SD)

The Basic strategy is this, Rampardos and Mawile/Pawn are checked by: fightings, Grounds and Gourgeist. Rampardos lures in these checks are retorts with the appropriate move. Zen for Ferno, Ice beam for grounds and Gourg. Once these checks are out of the way Pawniard/Mawile can SD and sweep the opposition with priority. Gourgeist is the ribbon for this fiasco and switches into fightings par Monferno and grounds once Rampardos dents them. Gourg also has the bonus of spin blocking exclusively Armaldo.

Double Dance Rampardos' teams require the use of a memento user i.e. Jumpluff. It is recommended that lures for scarf users such Sawsbuck or Priority users like Floatzel are included as well.

(Double Dance)+
(Memento)+
(LO Mixed) OR
(LO)

Once again, Simisear lures grasses and waters KOs with either Ice beam or Grass knot, once the checks are cleared Jumpluff enters on a free switch and mementos the opposing pokemon allowing Rampardos to sweep.

Status

Rampardos has cemented itself onto the C+ Rank in the VR. There are many reasons for this, it's poor bulk and speed leave it challenged as a wallbreaker by others like Eviolite Monferno and Stoutland due to their superior speed and bulk. Same for its lead role, Golem and Monferno are just more practical options and Leafeon and Basuclin perform the anti-lead role as well. Lead Rampardos' niche is that it can thrive in the HO, Golem dominated metagame we are in now and has the surprise factor of an anti-lead and SR compression. Wallbreaker Parods has a damage output unmatched and a coverage who rivals even Machoke. All in all, Rampardos can be effective in offense teams especially in our given meta, but its bulk and speed let it down where it counts and its niche is situatuonal and come at a price of better options and result in building around it.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. /dt Rawst Berry
 
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Sobi

Banned deucer.
Oops, I forgot about this. The winning post is Cynan's, so grats to them, it will feature in the Hall of Fame. Our next Pokemon is Glalie


look into my eyes...

Pros: Great suicide lead with Taunt + Spikes, decent Speed stat so it outspeeds most leads preventing them from setting hazards with Taunt
Cons: Poor bulk, generally outclassed by Regice.

Battling phase is open! (although it should've been opened yesterday..)​

 

Sobi

Banned deucer.
due to the lack of posts for this week, i'll move on to our next mon. hopefully there should be some more posts than usual, if not no worries, project activity is low due to PUPL :0


+ Great pivot with Volt Switch & Intimidate.
+ Can bring teammates in safely with Volt Switch.​
+ Base 120 Attack means it's a great wallbreaker.
+ Status Absorber with Guts which also helps it wallbreak easily.
- Below average Speed means it often takes damage before making its move, hindering its capabilities as a wallbreaker.
- Outclassed by other Electric-types like Zebstrika.

Battling Phase open.
 

5gen

one man's custard is another man's pudding
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Best Lux sprite imo

PU has a plethora of electric types and Luxray is one of the most overlooked ones in the bunch rn. It differentiates itself from that group by offering a great attack stat (base 120), two good abilities in Guts and Intimidate, and ability to go offensive or defensive (it can, may not be good, but hey it's decent imo).

Luxray @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate or Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Volt Switch
- Superpower
- Ice Fang

Luxray @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Volt Switch
- Superpower
- Roar
- Thunder Wave/Toxic


CB Luxray
For the Banded Lux set, I knew I needed something that could take care of grounds or grasses so Lux can spam stabs freely. RP Regice does this job and provides a wincon. CB Lux also wears down opposing teams and beats special walls such as Dino/Grumpig/Cryo that Regice doesn't like facing. Jumpluff completes a Volt-Turn core alongside Luxray and provides some speed and another fighting and ground check. Golem/Lumi/Arbok bring some defensive synergy, hazards, hazard removal and another wincon in Arbok.

Choice Banded Luxray brings immediate wallbreaking power that other electrics don't (i.e Zeb, Raichu, Buzz). This set best functions on offensive teams (but less on HO since it's speed is lacking) because of it's ability to hit hard, pivot in and out, and either absorb status with Guts or provide Intimidate support. The problem CB Lux faces is being exploited when choice locked and failing to break past premier walls in Stunfisk, Gourgeist and Quilladin which is why it needs to be paired with teammates that can beat them. Waters, ice-types or strong special attackers like Simisear pair well with Luxray as they free it up in terms of how aggressive you can play it. Something to note about Luxray right now I feel is 252 Jolly allows you to outspeed Adamant Monferno and Stoutland to heavily dent them.
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Golem: 326-384 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
0- SpA Luxray Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mawile: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Eviolite Machoke: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 484-572 (137.1 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Luxray Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 126-150 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Defensive Luxray shout to Yosp for helping me w/ this team
Now I got the idea of defensive Luxray from two things; Dual Screens Lux from Xenon3120 (anyone know him?) and the fact it gets Intimidate. Now you may say use Stunfisk or Chinchou, but Luxray has access to Volt Switch, Roar and Intimidate over them (except v-switch chou and albeit it has less natural bulk). I chose to go Spike Stack with Luxray because of it's ability to shuffle mons and pivot in and out. Lux/Quill/Golem are able to switch into physical attacks but get dented by water- or ice-types so Grumpig and Cryo were added. A wincon was needed so SD Mawile was slapped on.

Defensive Luxray is no slouch. As mentioned before Volt Switch, Roar and Intimidate allow it to phaze and pivot, something other walls don't provide most of the time. It can check a bunch of physical attackers like Monf, Stout, Mawile and Bouff etc. Can also take on some special attacker if at full (i.e Floatzel, Regice, Chatot). The main problems Luxray faces as a defensive pokemon is how it can get worn down as it doesn't have reliable recovery and how other defensive mons can bring stuff to the table (Chinchou-->Volt Absorb or Golem-->part ground and gets SR to name two).
*56 speed is used to hit 190, out-speeding neutral 45's
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Luxray: 144-169 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Monferno Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Luxray: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- 74.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Luxray: 200-236 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Mr. Mime Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Luxray: 125-148 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Chatot Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 220-259 (60.6 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Regice Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 212-251 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


coming for ya
So currently Luxray is at C rank in the VR. I feel this is because other electric types like Zeb, Frostom or Raichu bring more speed and useful immunities and the defensive set I feel is just unexplored resulting in mons like Fisk, Chinchou, Golem etc being preferred since they provide important utility/immunites. When you actually look at it though, there isn't a physical electric type here other than Lux, and it can hit electric switch ins pretty hard. Defensively Luxray brings a niche in a Phazer+Pivot in one which most other walls don't bring. In my opinion C rank is fair for Luxray but I feel it can be C+ rank. Luxray can be paired with special attackers that can hit grounds or grasses. In turn, Lux brings wallbreaking power and Volt Switch which keeps the momentum going and allow for a better matchup. For example I paired it with Regice (offensive Lux). It beats special walls like Audino while Regice beats Stunfisk and Gourg-XL. Defensive it also requires some support but what it gives you in return is well worth it. It's main negatives are it's low speed and vulnerability of being choice locked. All in all a versatile mon that can be supported easily and brings a lot to the table.

Should definitely be explored more n_n
 
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