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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project PU Victim of the Week! Finished
- Thread starter Oathkeeper
- Start date
- Status
Gurdurr and Turtonator
Winners
Checks
Checks
| User | Pokemon | Set |
|---|---|---|
2xTheTap | 
| Focus Sash Kadabra (10 votes) |
| Bulky Attacker Gurdurr (8 votes) |
Counter
| User | Pokemon | Set |
|---|---|---|
jonago | 
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Yeah, TR Crabominable is not an easy mon to counter. Not a lot of things can safely come in on it. Practically non-existent group of mons that can do that. Because of this, I couldn't even think of honorable mentions to add on because the submissions this week work very well and mine was scraping at the bottom of the barrel to be honest lol.
Week 5
Alright, the next victim to kill dead is..............
Qwilfish @ Life Orb / Waterium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation / Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Explosion
Condition: Rain is active
Kadabra - 10
Gurdurr - 8
Drampa - 4
Jellicent - 3
Sableye - 1
Volbeat - 1
Turtonator - 1
Granbull - 0
Regirock - 0
Quagsire - 0
Gurdurr - 8
Drampa - 4
Jellicent - 3
Sableye - 1
Volbeat - 1
Turtonator - 1
Granbull - 0
Regirock - 0
Quagsire - 0
gum - 4
jonago - 4
Toy Time King - 3
2xTheTap - 2
ChrystalFalchion - 2
j0gurt - 2
tlenit1 - 2
KellyKafka - 1
royesk - 1
Sickist - 1
Sir Pin - 1
jonago - 4
Toy Time King - 3
2xTheTap - 2
ChrystalFalchion - 2
j0gurt - 2
tlenit1 - 2
KellyKafka - 1
royesk - 1
Sickist - 1
Sir Pin - 1
Week 5
Alright, the next victim to kill dead is..............
Qwilfish @ Life Orb / Waterium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation / Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Explosion
Condition: Rain is active
Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Scald / Taunt
- Recover
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 139-164 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage[/s]
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage[/s]
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Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
Choice Scarf Abomasnow outspeeds every rain abuser under Hail and OHKOes all of them, which gives it a very strong matchup against such teams. While it can't switch into Qwilfish for very obvious reasons, it can revenge kill it rather easily. A solid check
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
Choice Scarf Abomasnow outspeeds every rain abuser under Hail and OHKOes all of them, which gives it a very strong matchup against such teams. While it can't switch into Qwilfish for very obvious reasons, it can revenge kill it rather easily. A solid check
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Had to put this one through a few edits, but this should hopefully be the one
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Curse
Check
Boosts? What boosts? I wanted to talk about a water absorber of my own, but Jellicent was taken, and Lapras isn't ranked. Neither is Avalugg. With this build, Quagsire can withstand just about any sort of rain-boosted water attack. This WOULD'VE been a counter if Quagsire had a chance of surviving a rain-boosted Liquidation, but unfortunately not. And turning him into a water sponge would've caused him to get blown up by a +2 Explosion.
EV spread gets him to barely scrape by if he has to deal with a Z-Liquidation in the rain, recovering, then, taking the next Liquidation. EVs set into attack give it good odds of a revenge kill, guaranteeing a takedown if spikes or rocks are over there. This leaves the only costly way to deal with it permanently would be to cast Z-Liquidation, then explode. That'll bring it down, but at what cost?
Curse is there if the Qwilfish handler ends up staying in on the best-case scenario of not taking full damage from Liquidations, setting up to be ready for the next physical attacker foolish enough to come in
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Curse
Check
Boosts? What boosts? I wanted to talk about a water absorber of my own, but Jellicent was taken, and Lapras isn't ranked. Neither is Avalugg. With this build, Quagsire can withstand just about any sort of rain-boosted water attack. This WOULD'VE been a counter if Quagsire had a chance of surviving a rain-boosted Liquidation, but unfortunately not. And turning him into a water sponge would've caused him to get blown up by a +2 Explosion.
252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire: 55-66 (13.9 - 16.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire in Rain: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Qwilfish Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire in Rain: 331-391 (84 - 99.2%)
252+ Atk Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire: 230-271 (58.3 - 68.7%)
252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire in Rain: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Qwilfish Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire in Rain: 331-391 (84 - 99.2%)
252+ Atk Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Quagsire: 230-271 (58.3 - 68.7%)
180 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 260-308 (95.9 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Attachments
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Gourgeist-Super @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Synthesis
- Foul Play
- Leech Seed
Gourgeist-XL is a pretty decent counter I think. You are immune to Explosion, number 1 and number 2, Poison Jab and Waterfall/Liquidation are 4hkos at +0 so you are able to just burn it. Even if it gets to +2, water moves do nothing and you get low 2hko by pjab (50-59), you wisp then heal. You either Leech Seed to take the mick or just 3hko it with Foul Play. Ez game.
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Aurorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Rock
Scarf Aurorus is a good check to Qwilfish as it can come in on Poison Jab or Swords Dance, and is only 2HKOed by Explosion. It can even survive an unboosted Liquidation from full HP if Qwilfish is running Waterium Z. It then removes the rain, outruns and OHKOes with Freeze-Dry. Life Orb Liquidation will OHKO Aurorus though as will an unboosted Hydro Vortex.
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aurorus: 99-117 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aurorus: 204-240 (52.7 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aurorus: 320-380 (82.6 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Aurorus Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 306-362 (112.9 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Toxic
So Gastrodon is by far the best counter to Qwilfish with given conditions (Pyuku? Naaah that doesn't exist).
Only Quagsire comes close to it by having Unaware but Gastrodon doesn't have to take the rain boosted Liquidation because of Storm Drain.
Another nice thing is the fact that Protect isn't that bad of a set. With that you are able to switchin to Kangaskhan's Double-Edge without being knocked out in the matchup thanks to Protect! I like to run it to compress as many roles as possible in a slot: Water Resist, Rock Resist aaand a Normal resist for at least Kang. And of course it's nice to check this threat too - Explosion Qwilfish.
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Omastar Scarf Swift Swim
Omastar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Omastar is a Great Check Of Qwilfish Due to its Great Special Attack and Swift Swim + Scarf makes it faster in the rain and kill from OHKO to qwilfish, although not everything is good because if it is not scarf the Waterium Z of Qwilfish Kill Omastar But that does not make Omastar Scarf one of the best Qwilfish ChecksOmastar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
252 SpA Omastar Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 292-344 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar in Rain: 153-180 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Qwilfish Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar in Rain: 286-337 (101.7 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
I tried here but we really don't have don't have many speed answers (shout outs to protect Z dig ninjask) or typings to abuse so this the next best thing
Liepard @ Leftovers /silk scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- U-turn
Pretty much an aggressive switch in on SD or a sack and chipping over the game and creating any momentum off of possible misplays in general, while eating as many rain turns as possible
The speed tier is 1 point higher than +2 Carracosta neutral nature letting You t wave in rain or encoring them into more shell smashes and outspeeding the aqua jet
Defense makes the most sense if You have to eat an u-turn by volbeat but base 50 is rough in general, just free evs either way
252 Atk Silk Scarf Liepard Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 46-55 (16.9 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Silk makes it do exactly 4% more
Liepard @ Leftovers /silk scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- U-turn
Pretty much an aggressive switch in on SD or a sack and chipping over the game and creating any momentum off of possible misplays in general, while eating as many rain turns as possible
The speed tier is 1 point higher than +2 Carracosta neutral nature letting You t wave in rain or encoring them into more shell smashes and outspeeding the aqua jet
Defense makes the most sense if You have to eat an u-turn by volbeat but base 50 is rough in general, just free evs either way
252 Atk Silk Scarf Liepard Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 46-55 (16.9 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Silk makes it do exactly 4% more
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While a majority of the answers you would first think of are taken, I can still think of an answer that finds it's niche as a counter which fits on hazard-stack teams without any other answers to threats like kabutops and qwilfish, physically defensive poliwrath.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Yes, I know water absorb is the preferred ability usually, however consider this: Everybody assumes poliwrath uses water absorb unless it is on rain teams. Because of this, it is impossible for the opponent to know you are using damp and is willing to risk using a water move into poliwrath unless you have revealed damp earlier in the match, or accidentally switched in on a water attack. It is like the idea of using heatproof bronzong in ru, but even better because poliwrath resists water attacks anyways and doesn't lose terribly much by taking damp instead.
With that out of the way, the benefit of damp is that you don't die to explosion from qwilfish, making this a counter. This is even more the case when you realize that in a match, the two most likely scenarios when switching into qwilfish is switching into either poison jab or swords dance. if qwilfish uses poison jab, it does
252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 113-134 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
and then you get to immediately phaze qwilfish out with circle throw, both removing the threat temporarily and stalling a turn of rain dance. After circle throwing, you will have close towards 50% of your health. If qwilfish uses swords dance, it is at +2 and from there one of two things happens. The first thing that could happen is that qwilfish uses poison jab at +2 before you circle throw, it does
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 224-265 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and then qwilfish gets phazed out. This is fine and in this scenario you just have to play smart later in the match and get poliwrath reasonably healthy again or set the pace of the match in such a way qwilfish doesn't get another chance. However, qwilfish does not know you have the ability damp. If qwilfish uses explosion, you get to phaze qwilfish out without taking any damage. This is the best scenario possible.
In any other scenario possible, qwilfish does not do anything substantial to poliwrath and it gets phazed out. Like I said, this counter finds its niche on hazard-stacking teams, and in other teams there are better options probably. This counter shines in a setup where there are stealth rocks on the field and preferably a layer or two of spikes. That way the phazes are not only stopping qwilfish but punishing qwilfish for trying to abuse its turns of rain. It speeds the game up in a matchup where rain cannot outlast more than one or two rain dances with hazards up. Poliwrath has the dual utility in also countering kabutops, as well as omastar. Rest and sleep talk will keep it healthy throughout that match and just the presence of poliwrath really discourages water attacks, making the matchup that much better against rain.
tldr, poliwrath is a strong counter to qwilfish which finds its niche on hazard-stacking teams that need consistent rain answers.
Metang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
Check. Metang's physical bulk can either be its best friend or worst enemy here. Metang can 2HKO with EQ:
176+ Atk Metang Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 176-208 (64.9 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now with Qwilfish, on the other hand, Metang can survive better vs. Waterfall:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Metang in Rain: 277-328 (85.4 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Compared to Liquidation:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Metang in Rain: 294-347 (90.7 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Long story short, Metang comes in and gets off an EQ and Qwil can SD and then Metang has to hope it lives a +2 LO STAB attack!
INSANE CARZY GUY, I'm sorry to say I have to reject your nom because it makes no sense. It does barely any harm to Qwilfish (if at all) and the best Liepard is doing to Qwil is paralyzing it. No STAB Knock Off or nothing. It's going to have to be ignored I'm afraid. Definitely use the other posts people have been making as a good template.
Checks
| User | Pokemon | Set |
|---|---|---|
gum | 
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| Stealth Rock Metang |
Counters
| User | Pokemon | Set |
|---|---|---|
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Vote for 2 checks AND 2 counters
Czechs: gum's Abomasnow, ChrystalFalchion's Aurorus
Counters: TTK's Gourgeist-XL, royesk's Jellicent
Checks: Quagsire and Metang
Counters: Jellicent and Gastrodon
Counters: Jellicent and Gastrodon
- Status