Metagame Pure Hackmons

Warning: I do not advise anyone to use this.

So basically I was thinking how to bend to my own volition the one and only rule still alive in this meta, which is the endless battle clause.

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Recycle
- Rest
- Substitute

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Recycle
- Rest
- Substitute

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Recycle
- Rest
- Substitute

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Recycle
- Rest
- Substitute

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Power Trip
- Rest
- Substitute

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Rest
- Substitute

This team has 3 wincons, namely power trip and stored power, but the most important one is the possibility to make people go quite literally insane.

If you don't know how the endless clause works, it activates when there is a literal endless game going on. When you are using leppa+recycle without a trapping ability (EDIT: actually, trapping is better because it forces the enemy to waste PPs, the problem is if both teams have the same strategy or you have heal pulse to repeatedly heal the enemy) things get quite interesting. You cannot end the game since you won't have a damaging move, but your opponent will either be forced to switch endlessly or waste all their PPs until they struggle to death during a plethora of turns.

This tactic is the closest there is to break the only remaining clause on the ladder. Enjoy the degeneracy.
 
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This is a 2 pokemon starting set that I use

Zeraora @ Air Balloon
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Clangorous Soul
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Eternatus @ Neutralizing Gas
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Blue Flare
- Recover
- Dynamax Cannon

How does it work: Since Zeraora has wonder guard, so it would be immune to any type except ground (Zeraora is electric). If you give it an air balloon, it would be immune to every type (air balloon won't pop unless someone use gastro acid, sunsteel strike or moongeist beam )

Do spore first to the opponent (Zeraora is going to outspeed 95% of the time), Then do clangorous soul until hp drops around 40%. Use recover when it does drop below 40.

If opponent wakes up, just do another spore. (Cuz opponent may use moves like stealth rock, spike, toxic spike, toxic... At least moves that do indirect damage or setup moves)

Do clangorous soul until zeraora has 4x every stat, then baton pass eternatus

When you get to eternatus, just use stored power. 1396 sp. atk stat and 740 base power for stored power should 1sk almost any pokemon unless if it has something like focus sash or if it is a dark type. However if it is immune to dark, it's ok. Just do dynamax cannon or blue flare, since it has 1396 base stat at the time.

If the HP drops below 50% (Which is almost impossible because of its insane boost from zeraora and its high defense base stats) just use recover

I gave it neutralizing gas because it is useful to cripple wonder guard and no guard. It should kill the two.
 
How does it work: Since Zeraora has wonder guard, so it would be immune to any type except ground (Zeraora is electric). If you give it an air balloon, it would be immune to every type (air balloon won't pop unless someone use gastro acid, sunsteel strike or moongeist beam )
bad bad bad bad set
ngas removes wg so the majority of pokemon will be able to phase or KO zeraora
you need gastro + trap move to really set up with it and even then they can spectral as you pass
if you use gastro trap then smash is better for moveslots
Eternatus @ Neutralizing Gas
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Blue Flare
- Recover
- Dynamax Cannon
blue flare doesn't have the pp for a sweeper in case of protect/dmax
dmax cannon could be replaced by smash and recover potentially replaced by spectral to make it more independent from zeraora
 

Ransei

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Other Metas Leader
It's been over half a month since we've gone through our OMotM ladder, and I must say, an impressive amount of plays have been made. Right now the ladder is more developed than most OM permaladders (MnM, STABmons, AAA, NFE), and already has a higher peak than BH's ladder. Great job folks! Well anyway I want put more thoughts into the metagame on this thread and I figured making another huge insight post wasn't going to cut it. Instead, I'll divide everything into more posts and revising my thoughts bit by bit over time. This particular post is going to be regarding Eternamax. I've discovered through ladder the accuracy of my previous thoughts. There were plenty of things I've gotten right and plenty of things I've gotten wrong.

As it turns out, the main things I've gotten wrong were made wrong simply because despite everything I've said about Neutralizing Gas, I've still managed to underestimate its impact. Eternamax is a Pokemon that works in such enormous amounts of roles, whether it's both defensively and offensively.

Defensively, we already know what it could do. It could act as a phazer, a cleric, some sort of trapper, it could set up sub or stat boosts and baton pass, or it could even just sit there and wall while trying to land OHKO moves.

Offensively however, Eternamax can actually become quite atrocious of a beast.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Imprison / Filler (Magic Coat, Taunt, Baton Pass, OHKO moves, Recovery, various sorts of coverage attacks including Earthquake, Bolt Beak, Moonblast, Close Combat, etc)

Look at this set ^. Just by looking at it you could tell it's the stuff of nightmares. It has enough bulk to get away with using two Shell Smashes easier than any other Pokemon. With Imprison, this thing becomes real difficult to stop even after one Shell Smash, since most players use Spectral Thief to deal with stat boosting and Eternamax can outspeed then prevent them from using the move with Imprison. Without Imprison you may have to go through a bit of Spectral Thief wars but your OHKO, coverage, or recovery options could help stand your ground. After two Shell Smashes the only things really stopping it are Dark-types unless you have the coverage against them. Zacian-Crowned can also take an attack from this amount but if Stealth Rocks are on their side, it becomes a roll.

+4 252+ SpA Eternatus-Eternamax Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 324-382 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Just note that Stored Power Eternamax has to be +SpA Nature or else the roll will always fail against opposing Zac-C and even creates a roll you have to luck for against Calm Nature Eternamax.

+4 252 SpA Eternatus-Eternamax Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eternatus-Eternamax: 592-698 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Zacian-Crowned could run Calm Nature to avoid getting OHKOed by +SpA at x3 but it sacrifices a lot of speed for this and could get outsped by the other Zacian-Crowned, Zeraora, and Dragapult in the field. Your Zac-C getting outsped by most other Zac-C in the metagame could also lead to your Zac-C being useless half of the time, so it's not worth running +SpD in my opinion.

You have a ton of other coverage options and whatever you want to run really just depends on what the rest of your team can and can't handle. If your team can handle opposing sweepers better but struggles against phazing Taunt might be for you, or if you lack stuff against Zacian-Crowned and Dark-types in general, Bolt Beak just might be for you. This set still has a lot more to explore.

Last but not least do not run Black Sludge on this offensive attacker Eternamax set. You'd just be asking to get Spore'd on and lose.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1062767647 - Basic Eternamax sweep at x3 when boosted by terrain. Psychic Terrain, which is sometimes brought up by dynamaxers in an attempt to defend themselves also unintentionally help Stored Power Eternamax out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1059269455 - Solid demonstration of Imprison's impact.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1059265165 - Sometimes it can really be this simple.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1064929634 - Game by Wiso and monsareeasy showcasing the use of coverage.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1057072934 - Game where Wiso showcased the use of OHKO moves against me.
I don't have replays for where Taunt and Magic Coat showed to be handy but there have been plenty of matches I've won that would've turned the other way without one of those moves games I've lost because I either didn't have Taunt/Magic Coat or I sacked it too early in the game using a fixed variant of the Gourgeist sample, including a game where I was in the 1700s.

Offensive Eternamax doesn't only have Stored Power as an option. These particular sets below are even even bigger stuffs of nightmares if you don't know what's coming.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Final Gambit
- Recover
- Stealth Rock

Final Gambit lead Etern. What it does is sets up rocks, makes sure its HP is higher than the opposition, then Final Gambit. Both your Pokemon and whatever the opponent had are gone. Rapid Spin boosts your speed and clears up hazards, recover maximizes your health, and Lum Berry is used over Safety Goggles because some leads like to run Nuzzle over Spore.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- Final Gambit
- Trick

If you thought the lead wasn't enough, here's a regular Final Gambit Eternamax set. It has Trick in case it has to face something that forces it to use more than one move. It can also be used to throw the Ghost-types who try blocking this out of balance. Spectral Thief does exactly that as well. You're still hitting them with a super effective move and inflicting tons of damage, outright 2HKOing or 3HKOing them while they can't do much back, and recovery to maximize your health in case you are able to Final Gambit again but against a different Pokemon. These Eternamax tend to be Choice Scarf just to outspeed every non scarf mon and trick out Ghost-types if needed. At its full potential, this set or even a team of these can be really difficult to face off against even with the best teams.

If you can get your opponent to their last Pokemon, here's a set that can help tear them down

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry / Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lock-On
- Recover
- Horn Drill / Fissure / Sheer Cold
- Taunt

I figured it could run a variety of different items, they each have an upside and down side, like Lum Berry only working against sleep once, Safety Goggles not covering paras, and both being unable to prevent this mon from potentially getting OHKOed by an OHKO move. All this Eternamax does is target something with Lock-On, then hit them with an OHKO move. It runs Taunt to avoid dealing with Substitute, set up, or sleep users while Recover is for if the Eternamax somehow gets badly chipped so it can regain its HP and love to OHKO its target. Sometimes it can and/or must be used when there's more than Pokemon remaining and these OHKO moves can still help with that. Lock-On immediately puts the target under pressure so they're forced to switch out and their switchin becomes immediately at a 20-30% risk of getting hit by an OHKO move. Sheer Cold can be an option but is less reliable than Horn Drill and Fissure since it comes with 20% accuracy unless the user is Ice-type. If you miss the switchin, you could give the OHKO move another shot or use Lock-On and force them out again until it does hit, and this is Eternamax. It's not losing much other than OHKO Power Points by missing.

Here are replays demonstrating the these monstrosities at a high potential:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1059256076 - Replay 1
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1058963959 - Replay 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1058665984 - Replay 3


These are some of the most effective Eternamax stategies that prove its dominance even as an offense Pokemon. I encourage you to try these sets out, especially the Stored Power one as Eternamax is one of the best Stored Power users in the entire metagame and I've been using three of those on a relatively fixed Gourgeist sample to dominate the ladder.

Evidence as shown in the replays above and these images below:



Wiso (aka wiso2) is also a really big user of them and originated the OHKO variants and lots of coverage variants on the set.
 
I'd like to say some things since we've gone and did so much of a large post about it. But in my personal opinion, even though I've used Eternatus Eternamax alot, and I am a fan of having a million sets on it due to it's incredible viability. I don't think people truly understand why it's so good to begin with.


Eternatus-eternamax, which is this giant thing, is in of itself not that good, actually.
1582031805701.png

Now, its stats are monstrous and there's no denying that it's the best Pokemon. But this is Pure hackmons. Being the best Pokemon, doesn't mean that you're the most viable.

To begin with, allow me to explain in full this time, why eternamax works so well.

Obviously -- the first part is the stats. Defenses through the roof, a speed tier equivalent to Mewtwo's. And attacking stats that are passable (Being above the par of 105 that is needed.) with a 115 attack and a 125 special attack, allowing it to, unlike other walls, be able to put decent offensive pressure against everything. Even without a shell smash.

The main reasons of why it's so good, and why stats matter this time, unlike what I've said before, is thanks to 3 main factors of Pokemon Sword and Shield, being Neutralizing gas, Dynamax and, well, Wobbuffet.

The first two are rather self-explanatory. Neutralizing gas allows Eternamax to bypass Wonder guard, not get hit by prankster sleep, avoid damage from huge power over muscling it as well as break through Fur coat, Ice scales, Sturdy and other longevity sets designed not to get hit. It also disables any attempt at cheesing with No-guard OHKO, poison heal recovery, or contrary offensive setup against it. This gives it a very, very big advantage that often goes unnoticed in regular play and shafted as "Well, Eternamax is just good".

To put this into example, we'll use a fellow helping Pokemon to illustrate our point.

I present to you..

1582032230036.png


Chansey! Everyone's favorite and most annoying pokemon in Generation 7 itself. Chansey being the most famous user of Imposter, alongside sets with Fur coat, phazing and stealth rock and baton passing that allowed it to sit there, eat hits on anything that dares attempt to take time to sweep, and overrall be a nuisance.

What I want to focus on here is chansey's bulk. Eternatus eternamax is what you get if you took a chansey, shuckle and a Dragpult, then threw them together in a blender. Making a fast, bulky and very defensive pokemon. So, if that was the case, then obviously, this pokemon should be able to do everything the above mentioned 3 can do.

But, that isn't actually true. Eternatus Eternamax suffers from 2 things, it's poison typing and its lackluster speed.
I know I said that Eternamax has great stats and presence, so you're wondering why I'd go back on that. And the reason for this can be seen in the very sets Ransei has put forward, and many others, with the Psychic-meta game that now is ever present in pure hackmons thanks to this Eternamax threat. The power level of a pokemon becomes so important and so large in order to constitute a sweep that most of the time, anything capable of taking down eternatus, is capable of taking down everything else, too. But this is pure hackmons. A ninjask has one of the shittiest stats in the game, but it is still one of the main threats. And everyone knows this, because in pure hackmons, its not the overrall validity of the pokemon that matters, it's the niche you can pull off with them.

1582032539728.png

Ninjask runs many sets. Comatose Whirl-wind being the main one, seconded only by No-guard OHKO and Neutralizing gas rocks and nuzzling. Made to disrupt the enemy's attempts at moving.

Generation 8 doesn't have that many pokemon, that is why I believe pokemon home and the expansion DLC will improve pure hackmon's viability rankings and most certainly bring Eternamax down in usage. Eternamax can in of itself deal with it's own counters with the right set, it's the best pokemon, after all. A game of prediction is how pokemon has always worked. But, I still believe that Eternamax here is only really so viable, and so strong, and so used.. because it's an exploit in what we're used to.

You already know why Neutralizing gas is good, why shell smash sweeping is viable and why being a defensive monster makes you setup easier. So much so that just the niche of being normal and Psychic-type despite the horrible stats makes Indeedee one of the best sweepers in the game with it's taunt, shellsmash, stored power and blue flare. Unlike Eternamax, who can run earthquakes and bolt beaks for better coverage due to it's actually decent stats.

But you don't know why Eternamax is so good. We've always had shell smashers, we've always had stored power mons, and even in generation 8, with such a low count of mons that gives Eternamax such a fearsome presence, almost as if we're back to generation 1, and as you send out your alakazam, you opress everything else because you're just better, and the amount of Pokemon is not enough for you to be offset-ed and be forced to use something else.

Eternamax is so good. Because of the final part. "Wobbuffet". Eternamax on Pokemon showdown, cannot be impostered.

This is huge, stupidly huge. Balanced hackmons will show you, both in generation 8 and generation 7. Our fluffy chansey, and the infamous wobbuffet are one of the biggest counters to any attempt of setting up that you can think of. It does not matter one bit what on earth the enemy is running, because I'll just copy it with a choice scarf, and win anyway. Even in Pure hackmons back on Gen 7, chansey was never not seen.

Imposter allowed people to simply disregard what the enemy has planned. No need for prediction on wether it's running bolt beak or blue flare to send out my zacian or Mandibuzz. No need to guess if you need to spectral theif or haze. Whirl wind (Or as Gen 7 would have it, heart-swap. But heart-swap is not in Gen 8, further giving Eternamax that alakazam opression feel due to the simple lack of options against it.).

But. Eternatus Eternmax, for some ungodly reason, cannot be impostered even without neutralizing gas. Even if you sat there and clicked transform, it will simply fail. And honestly, this is what makes it what it is now in my eyes. Because if you could copy eternamax, not only would eternamax itself start running imposter to pick off potential niche sweepers, but mons capable of using transform as a last ditch effort would make sure to keep it on just in case. It is true that Neutralizing gas supresses transform in the first place, but imagine the previous calculations provided by Ransei with transform.

Zacian crowned lives +3. But nothing else does. They say it should not run calm because it loses speed and becomes useless, but isn't that a chansey conundrum? If Zacian could click transform at the cost of being slightly useless, copy a +3 eternamax, and straight up counter-sweep. You can turn the tide of an entire game just using that. No imprison spectral theif longeivity, no dealing with "Hm, what set is this?". This would not only force eternamax to be alot more scared of just setting up blindly at any chance the opponent gives you, but it may even force itself to make sure to run taunt, which expends one of the four move slots that eternamax so begrudgingly values. Pokemon like Necrozma dusk mane and Mel-metal would also find a small niche in being able to counter eternamax this way, thanks to their type bulk and overral decent enough defensive stats (Although melmetal gets blown away by stored power at +3, but you know, focus sash niches and stuff. Better than surviving and just going "shit uhh I think I have haze, atleast I won't get COMPLETELY DESTROYED").

But what confuses me about it, is honestly that this hard-coded anti-transformation sounds a bit buggy to me in terms of considering that this is pure-hackmons. Here's a video of ditto being used to transform into eternamax via the prospect of hacking. I am aware that using transform in the big raid battle against it in the main-storyline of darkest day will have transform fail, but pure hackmons goes under the premise that this is pokemon that you can hack into the game into your party, and use. And seeing that if in doing so.. this happens. Then I would imagine imposter/transform should function as seen.

I have no real evidence and I am not fully prepared for an argument about it, and I don't know if it's even been brought up before. But as far as can be seen here (At 1:39 in the video). Ditto transforms into it.


Obviously this isn't the actual eternamax but who cares. Eternatus normally at x3 is just as good if not better than eternamax thanks to it's higher special attack. Special attack that when copying an Eternamax from, can even one shot zacian and everything else Ransei pointed out as a range for eternamax that it ever so struggled for. If this was how the game functioned on the ladder, people would be terrified of using Neutrailzing gas Eternamax setup so freely, because you'd risk having the opponent turn into an even stronger version of the one you setup with. One that didn't give a single point of interest about wether or not you were calm nature. Focus sashes would be more common, so would be rocks, and the meta-game would slowly but surely expand from there with the chansey plague that was ever present before.

Ofcourse, I am not saying that this is a good thing. Personally, I used chansey alot in Gen 7, but I never said I liked it. But this is important to remember when considering what mons are actually viable, and why. Eternamax isn't just good because it has the best stats. It boasts something no pokemon can ever hope to replicate. Even better than normal-type spectral theif immunity, or dark-type prankster immunity. It boasts a hard-coded imposter immunity.

It would be interesting to see a Pure hackmons (No neutralizing gas) tier in my opinion, and should the eternamax be impostrable in this case, pokemon home and the DLC would make pure hackmons possibly even more diverse than the cluster fuck Gen 7 Balanced hackmons and Pure hackmons was before. An Eternamax having imposter turns it into a worse pokemon due to it losing so many stat points, but it does allow it to preform even when it could not transform, unlike what chansey suffered beforehand. Chansey could only wall.. but eternamax, assuming ng is basically like having no ability for both sides, just like in generation 1, can preform and sweep, not just wall.

In conclusion, Ransei is gay and should learn not to post replays from the very start of the meta cause I wasn't as good back then. Thank you for coming to my ted-talk.

Also Zacian S tier with eternamax it's just facts man.
 
Alright gonna throw my two teams here that got me peaked at 22 today (meaning I suck and should stick to Caterpie :toast: ).

Screenshot_20200218-220759.jpg

Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Rapid Spin
- Spore
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Whirlwind
- Copycat

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Whirlwind
- Copycat

Dragapult @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Multi-Attack
- Substitute
- Shell Smash

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Stealth Rock
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

As you can see, most of it is standard metagame sets. But I figure I should explain the Perish Song Eternamax:

eternatus-eternamax.gif.m.1578614926.gif

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

I believe I first saw Mewtwo's Mother using some variant of this set. The purpose of this set is to win the last slot 1v1 and finish off your opponent's final Pokemon.

Mental Herb to ensure you can successfully Perish Song, as that move is the win condition of this set.

Sturdy ability to be immune to OHKO moves, which often the opponent will save as they sack off the rest of their team to Final Gambit.

Sassy Nature and 0 Spe IV ensures you're as slow as possible, since the slower Pokemon wins when both Perish on the last turn. In other words, the slower Pokemon is KO'd last and thus wins.

Substitute helps stall a turn and avoid slower leech seeds and spores (namely from Shuckle or Snorlax).

Spiky Shield acts as a protect with some more utility (sometimes KOs Sash Pokemon going for a contact move or Sturdy Shedinja going for endeavor).

Perish Song is usually used ASAP unless up against a slower Pokemon (in which case you will Substitute then Curse till you're slower first). Also useful for cutting Baton Pass chains short and forcing switches, with the exception of Soundproof ability.

Curse is used to simultaneously boost your Defense while reducing Speed, as you must be the slower Pokemon at the end of Perish Song to win.

I'd once again would like to thank Pure Hackmons for allowing me to win with all Caterpie. Way easier than praying for pitty wins in Anything Goes :psysad:

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Water Shuriken

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Extreme Speed

Caterpie @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Rapid Spin
- Water Shuriken
- Endeavor

Thanks for reading :heart:
 
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Alright gonna throw my two teams here that got me peaked at 22 today (meaning I suck and should stick to Caterpie :toast: ).


Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Rapid Spin
- Spore
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Whirlwind
- Copycat

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Whirlwind
- Copycat

Dragapult @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Multi-Attack
- Substitute
- Shell Smash

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Stealth Rock
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

As you can see, most of it is standard metagame sets. But I figure I should explain the Perish Song Eternamax:

View attachment 223866
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Perish Song
- Curse

I believe I first saw Mewtwo's Mother using some variant of this set. The purpose of this set is to win the last slot 1v1 and finish off your opponent's final Pokemon.

Mental Herb to ensure you can successfully Perish Song, as that move is the win condition of this set.

Sturdy ability to be immune to OHKO moves, which often the opponent will save as they sack off the rest of their team to Final Gambit.

Sassy Nature and 0 Spe IV ensures you're as slow as possible, since the slower Pokemon wins when both Perish on the last turn. In other words, the slower Pokemon is KO'd last and thus wins.

Substitute helps stall a turn and avoid slower leech seeds and spores (namely from Shuckle or Snorlax).

Spiky Shield acts as a protect with some more utility (sometimes KOs Sash Pokemon going for a contact move or Sturdy Shedinja going for endeavor).

Perish Song is usually used ASAP unless up against a slower Pokemon (in which case you will Substitute then Curse till you're slower first). Also useful for cutting Baton Pass chains short and forcing switches, with the exception of Soundproof ability.

Curse is used to simultaneously boost your Defense while reducing Speed, as you must be the slower Pokemon at the end of Perish Song to win.

I'd once again would like to thank Pure Hackmons for allowing me to win with all Caterpie. Way easier than praying for pitty wins in Anything Goes :psysad:

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Endeavor

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Water Shuriken

Caterpie @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Worry Seed
- Fissure
- Sheer Cold
- Extreme Speed

Caterpie @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Worry Seed
- Rapid Spin
- Water Shuriken
- Endeavor

Thanks for reading :heart:
So are you not gona explain why dragpult has 30 evs in HP
 
So are you not gona explain why dragpult has 30 evs in HP
Yeah, what Tmi489 said. Since this is the rapid spinner for that team it needs to be able to survive more switch-ins on hazards. Similarly, Ninjasks have an odd number HP for the same reason so it can survive an extra switch in on rocks.

My bad Mr. Altred :psycry:
 
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Imprison / Filler (Magic Coat, Taunt, Baton Pass, OHKO moves, Recovery, various sorts of coverage attacks including Earthquake, Bolt Beak, Moonblast, Close Combat, etc)
First off this set can slash in Mind Plate (or even just Black Sludge). Mind Plate allows for more consistent kills of Zac-C and Calm Eternamax. Spore spam (from what i've seen) has become less of an issue. Also notably missing from filler is Spore itself (with Knock support).
Also (potentially) notable is going min speed to outslow other eterns spectrals as you set up, and your not super scared of Scarf Zac.
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- Final Gambit
- Trick
not sure but i dont like final gambit too much on scarf etern
it can act just like scarf zacian (phasing, not the bs flinch chance) in getting rid of Kyu-W and Necro-DW's boosts and trick if none of those are a threat.

---

Generation 8 doesn't have that many pokemon, that is why I believe pokemon home and the expansion DLC will improve pure hackmon's viability rankings and most certainly bring Eternamax down in usage.
All Home mons were available in Hackkmons, but what exactly threatens Eternamax in the DLC?
Sure, Giratina/Arc-Ghost would be nice spin blockers (not the best niche), and Deo-A coould be a more reliable less bulky Mewtwo, but any legendary would be the same. Blissey would act just like Darks do now (with slightly more mons), but still can get smashed by coverage and can't switch in (aka they can switch out). Any legendaries without their primal/mega forms wouldn't be much stronger than Kyu-W or the psychics. Only other mon is maybe Arc-Normal for setting up against spectral which type null does pretty fine
Ninjask runs many sets. Comatose Whirl-wind being the main one, seconded only by No-guard OHKO and Neutralizing gas rocks and nuzzling. Made to disrupt the enemy's attempts at moving.
no guard ohko sucks
Spiky Shield acts as a protect with some more utility (sometimes KOs Sash Pokemon going for a contact move or Sturdy Shedinja going for endeavor).
small nitpick but could max guard be better (blocks potential dmax mons)
 
small nitpick but could max guard be better (blocks potential dmax mons)
I didn't even know this was possible! But I agree it would be better or more consistent for stalling the 3 turns.

I do want to note that w/ Sassy Nature, I've been able to get up a sub after taking +2 STAB Max Mindstorm/Stored Power from Mewtwo and still got the win:

+2 252+ SpA Mewtwo Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eternatus-Eternamax: 408-482 (62.3 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So it probably comes down to preference if you want max guard vs spiky shield.

EDIT AND UPDATE: So after trying the suggestions from Tmi489 and using Ransei's variant of scarf Final Gambit, I was able to peak at 1570 or 15th:

Screenshot_20200220-154646.png

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles/Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Stealth Rock
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Spectral Thief
- Roost
- Trick

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Substitute
- Max Guard
- Perish Song
- Curse

I'm convinced this is the farthest the Final Gambit Eternamax team can be pushed as it struggles against players familiar with it (unless they misplay).

Checks for the team are bulky Dmax Pokemon that can survive the Final Gambit, Priority Moves on an opposing Eternamax, Hazards which I am required to deal with or match if the opponent still has their own Eternamax, faster scarfers, and lastly, guessing the lead 50/50 right takes away the primary win condition for the team.

What I mean is if I lead with Scarf Final Gambit vs if I lead with the Stealth Rocks Eternamax (and then another layer of when I send out the stealth rocks Eternamax), if you guess right you can safe your own Hazard Control / Setter in the back. Having the stealth rock/rapid spin Eternamax is essential unless you want to nearly lose to Hazards on Turn 1.

Fun team, but if the game plan of press Final Gambit is countered by a player familiar with facing Final Gambit, then Trick/Perish Song can only go so far in forcing out the opponent for openings.

Some Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1066351709
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1066345159
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1066601280-g6sg5piwy2lxacyxm7b0mapt6rrsmg6pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1066580767-jv3xq7qv791h4n6i4q2xbl4atqzs06wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1066523619-cmoi8y0k1uvzyam7px9b2g8haolq1ojpw
 
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I made a set

Melmetal @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpD / 31 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Double Iron Bash
- Drill Peck
- Drill Run
The strategy is to Dynamic Punch first to miss and get the Blunder Policy increase to speed then use your high attack and speed to Double Iron Bash for the flinch.
I put Drill Peck and Drill Run for Coverage.
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
I made a set

Melmetal @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 31 SpD / 31 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Double Iron Bash
- Drill Peck
- Drill Run
The strategy is to Dynamic Punch first to miss and get the Blunder Policy increase to speed then use your high attack and speed to Double Iron Bash for the flinch.
I put Drill Peck and Drill Run for Coverage.
The Melmetal set is pretty much a sitting duck against the entire metagame. Pure Power is getting invalidated by every Neutralizing Gas Pokemon and you have nothing to hit much faster fire-types or air balloon Zeraora/Drapion. Last but not least Eternamax still walls it regardless of if it's Neutralizing Gas or not which matters since this set intends on breaking stuff in the metagame.

Here's a set you could try out that fixes much of the issues I've pointed out:

Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Trick
- Double Iron Bash
- Fissure
- Recover

A set somewhat similar to what Monsareeasy gave as his set. ngl it appears I just combined both of his main sets. I haven't tried this one out yet but it gives you Choice Band + Neutralizing Gas, which is the most damage Melmetal has to offer against many teams. Double Iron Bash breaks through Zacian-Crowned and other Pokemon around the same level of bulk or less, Pokemon like Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Ninjask, Dragapult, Mewtwo. It hits through all the Wonder Guards the Pure Power set above would not be able to hit and it can trick its choice band into Pokemon like Eternamax or Normalize Dragapult to punish them if they can't be KOed. Last but not least Melmetal has the bulk to attempt stalling with OHKO moves in order to take down opposing Eternamax. Whenever that fails and Melmetal takes to much damage this set could recover right back and give Fissure a couple more shots. It looks to be a mon that can pair well with a Whirlwind Pokemon, in case the opponent tries to use Substitute or Shell Smash Eternamax in the process, but overall looks very tricky to handle relative to the current meta.

When all else fails you can try Zacian-Crowned with the same set too although it has an easier time getting run over by opposing Zacian-Crowned.
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
Today I wanted to talk about a particular strategy that's been commonly used and really should not be used at all.

:ss/arcanine: :ss/cinderace: :ss/darmanitan:
Wonder Guard + Burn Up - Gen 8 Edition
This strategy is useless. Don't use it.

Typically the idea is, you take a pure Fire-type, give it Wonder Guard, and then give it Burn Up so it becomes typeless and immune to everything. This in return gives the thought that doing this makes these Wonder Guards invincible and so they'd be set, ready to stay in, and ready to stall their way through the rest of the game.

In the competitive scene from the last few gens that was never what Wonder Guards were used for and more often than not they were forced to switch out after a couple turns of staying in. If this were Gen 7 this would already be the best reason to not use Burn Up but the case is different for Gen 8. Here, Wonder Guards can only be effective if they can stay in and are able to do so in against plenty of targets as long as they have Gastro Acid and any speed boosting move. A trapping move is also preferable.

Here are what makes Burn Up pointless:

1. You have to use Burn Up in order to change a Wonder Guard from having a bad-typing to a good one. This means when it's sent out it has to take one extra step than Wonder Guards with better typings in order to be "effective". If you have to change a Wonder Guard's typing in order for it to be good, it is not a good Wonder Guard.

2. Burn Up limits Pokemon out of moves that help better Wonder Guards be effective. In this gen, in order for particular Wonder Guards to be effective, they have to be carrying Gastro Acid. Afterwards they tend to be carrying three extra moves which in turn tend to either be trap + perish song + rapid spin or shell smash + stored power/power trip + coverage in the higher fields of competitive. Using Burn Up means you have to run Burn Up and Gastro Acid, which takes up two turns before it could theoretically start being effective and that's assuming you don't get phazed out, get gastro acid'd on, or your gastro acid doesn't get bounced. From the get-go you've essentially doubled the opportunities your opponent has to deal with the Wonder Guard set. Not to mention these Pokemon start lacking moves that make better Wonder Guards thrive. What would they be having as their last two? Shell Smash + Stored Power? Every Dark-type walls that and even Aegislash can switch in and haze it out since Burn Up could no longer be used. Anchor Shot/Octolock + Perish Song? The fastest Pure Fire-type gets outsped by the Eternamax and Zacian-Crowned who are everywhere and have all sorts of sets against this strategy. You wouldn't have anything to boost your speed and Gastro Acid them before they attack you. Rapid Spin + Fissure/Horn Drill? Zacian-Crowned and Eternamax do this better without having to be Wonder Guard as with Neutralizing Gas, they are able to hit and OHKO anything already. These are just examples of what sets would sound reasonable for this strategy. Most generally have nothing to offer for the table and are rather unable to take down either of those two Pokemon.

3) Burn Up has to hit to have any effect. Any other Wonder Guard who switches in stops you from becoming typeless and after trying Gastro Acid against Neutralizing Gas, you may have to take both turns again of Gastro Acid and Burn Up for the strategy to work. If the target has two Wonder Guards, they could PP stall you out of Gastro Acid. If they just have one they could do the same with Neutralizing Gas + Wonder Guard.

4) Any standard PH team innately prepares for it. Wonder Guards aren't the most solid in Gen 8 Hackmons but can be threatening sometimes due to their considerable combination of four moves. The movepool restriction Burn Up gets just from being there makes it hardly possible (if even possible) to threaten any real PH team. Most solid teams are going to have a lot of Pokemon faster than Cinderace (the fastest Burn Up user) and a lot of Pokemon are going to have Neutralizing Gas to suppress and damage Wonder Guard. These faster Pokemon are not only able to do raw damage, but Taunt them out of using Gastro Acid or sub in front of them. These Burn Up users don't have room for Substitute so any Magic Bounce user could erase their ability on a simple prediction. They also might not have room for Magic Coat. Wonder Guards like Seismitoad, Obstagoon, and Zeraora who all have better typings are also able to work their way around these counteractions more by having an extra move over Burn Up. Zeraora could use Substitute so it could get punished less by Gastro Acid, Seismitoad is able to Magic Coat more to avoid Taunt and other Gastro Acid users while both Seismitoad and Obstagoon are able to use moves that boost their speed and allow them to Gastro Acid first all of the time. (Zeraora is already fast enough unless it's against Zac-C or Ninjask)

These are some reasons why Burn Up should never be considered on a team in Pure Hackmons. There may be a lot more but here's my summary:
These Pokemon become sitting ducks in the battlefield, are unable to perform any role proficiently, and give too many opportunities for any solid team to perform their own role and win the game.

I also wanted to clarify that while these are particularly common, they are only common at the very bottom of PH ladder but nevertheless are sometimes often suggested and posted around everywhere because newer players believe this is a solid strategy due to how good the idea looks good on paper.
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
The OMotM ladder has ended! I got a couple things to say.

First of all we've managed to have more games played played for this format than almost every OM permaladder and the Leader's Choice:

OM of the Month
PH Total Battles: 41784

Permaladder
1v1 Total Battles: 88644
BH Total Battles: 37662
AAA Total Battles: 16789
M&M Total Battles: 7911
STAB Total Battles: 2468
NFE Total Battles: 1866

Leader's Choice
Trademarked Total battles: 21578

Because of this popularity and a high demand for it to stay on Pokemon Showdown, we've also managed to get it as a challengeable format! Good job, thanks, and congratulations to everyone!

Now looking deeper in the format, here are what the top stats look like:
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-02/gen8purehackmons-1760.txt

Avg. weight/team: 0.026
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Eternatus-Eternamax | 270.67161% | 107853 | 129.060% | 38991 | 102.212% |
| 2 | Zacian-Crowned | 116.93381% | 54165 | 64.815% | 24943 | 65.386% |
| 3 | Ninjask | 23.29278% | 45049 | 53.907% | 23225 | 60.882% |
| 4 | Kyurem-White | 20.85998% | 9251 | 11.070% | 4340 | 11.377% |
| 5 | Dragapult | 19.91124% | 16528 | 19.778% | 9274 | 24.311% |
| 6 | Indeedee | 19.35434% | 3047 | 3.646% | 1548 | 4.058% |
| 7 | Mewtwo | 17.35998% | 6316 | 7.558% | 3400 | 8.913% |
| 8 | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings | 9.99167% | 5069 | 6.066% | 2777 | 7.280% |
| 9 | Umbreon | 8.24526% | 2251 | 2.694% | 1214 | 3.182% |
| 10 | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | 7.73496% | 3360 | 4.021% | 1658 | 4.346% |
| 11 | Snorlax | 6.67654% | 4478 | 5.359% | 2705 | 7.091% |
| 12 | Aegislash | 6.57690% | 4540 | 5.433% | 2555 | 6.698% |
| 13 | Zeraora | 6.19647% | 17402 | 20.824% | 10118 | 26.523% |
| 14 | Indeedee-F | 5.47030% | 592 | 0.708% | 303 | 0.794% |
| 15 | Mandibuzz | 4.50261% | 418 | 0.500% | 268 | 0.703% |
| 16 | Zamazenta-Crowned | 3.64223% | 7387 | 8.840% | 4005 | 10.499% |
| 17 | Kyurem-Black | 3.07523% | 7629 | 9.129% | 3757 | 9.849% |
| 18 | Shedinja | 2.99704% | 19867 | 23.773% | 10191 | 26.715% |
| 19 | Grimmsnarl | 2.97732% | 1294 | 1.548% | 688 | 1.804% |
| 20 | Darmanitan-Galar-Zen | 2.62662% | 3593 | 4.299% | 1878 | 4.923% |
| 21 | Gourgeist-Super | 2.40183% | 288 | 0.345% | 245 | 0.642% |
| 22 | Drapion | 2.36533% | 3332 | 3.987% | 2200 | 5.767% |
| 23 | Melmetal | 2.18161% | 4603 | 5.508% | 2559 | 6.708% |
| 24 | Dusclops | 2.06456% | 708 | 0.847% | 400 | 1.049% |
| 25 | Reshiram | 1.99046% | 1385 | 1.657% | 682 | 1.788% |
| 26 | Ferrothorn | 1.64478% | 2216 | 2.652% | 1570 | 4.116% |
| 27 | Seismitoad | 1.63377% | 1126 | 1.347% | 739 | 1.937% |
| 28 | Corviknight | 1.61578% | 2296 | 2.747% | 1370 | 3.591% |
| 29 | Type: Null | 1.57842% | 1097 | 1.313% | 681 | 1.785% |
| 30 | Sableye | 1.40621% | 2683 | 3.211% | 1606 | 4.210% |
| 31 | Wobbuffet | 1.23298% | 4090 | 4.894% | 2297 | 6.021% |
| 32 | Obstagoon | 1.19999% | 1529 | 1.830% | 878 | 2.302% |
| 33 | Zamazenta | 1.19264% | 800 | 0.957% | 445 | 1.167% |
| 34 | Tyranitar | 1.14424% | 1513 | 1.811% | 888 | 2.328% |


Eternatus-Eternamax and Zacian-Crowned are unsurprisingly above 100% usage as they have been dominating the entire format and most teams by themselves.

Here are what I have to say about the top three:

Zacian-Crowned's entire stat spread of having 92/115/115 defenses, 148 Speed, and 170 Atk with Steel-type Double Iron Bash STAB allowed this Pokemon to always become an absolute monster against nearly everything else in the format and with Double Iron Bash, managed to often become even more difficult to deal with than Eternatus-Eternamax. With a hefty reliance on OHKO moves and Nuzzle this mon also proved itself to be the much of the culprit of RNG being brought into this format, as Double Iron Bash has immensely high chances of flinching, Nuzzle was often paired with it during the later parts of the ladder to stack up free para chances with flinch chances, and the moveset stats show that it's been one of the biggest OHKO move users in the high ladder of this format. This sort of influence on this format's RNG showing Zacian-Crowned's true devastation is why some people have been wanting Zac-C to be on par with Eternamax on ranking and why there are plenty of cases where Zacian-Crowned can be more effective in battle than Eternatus-Eternamax. (spoiler though they are not on par in ranking)

Eternatus-Eternamax's 270% usage probably comes at no surprise to anyone.
Its presence creates the entire field for this metagame. Everything in Gen 8 Pure Hackmons revolves around this beast unless you are fully able to manifest your luck with Zacian-Crowned's RNG abuse. The main methods of winning in this format are either through lucking it out with OHKO moves, sweeping with Stored Power, Power Trip, Kyurem-White, or Reshiram, or using Final Gambit spam with the last Eternamax having Perish Song/OHKO. All of those require enough effort to tear through Eternamax's HP and defenses and are specifically the best wincons over anything else because of Eternatus-Eternamax's presence. You see this reflected on several other Pokemon within the top 10 usage. With Neutralizing Gas's power creep, Eternamax is the only Pokemon that causes teams to push towards some sort of effort in order to completely win. Teams without Eternatus-Eternamax are inherently put into a disadvantage because they're much more prone to getting swept by Stored Power/Power Trip sweepers or being destroyed by Final Gambit spam + OHKO Eternamax. Every action taken to win in this metagame reflects on the presence of Eternamax with some small elements being used to make life easier against Zacian-Crowned, the Stored Power sweepers, and Kyurem-White/Reshiram. In summary: This gigantic beast embodies the entire Gen 8 format more than almost every if not every other Pokemon does in another format. It's pretty much on board with Snorlax in GSC OU.

Ninjask is at the third highest with 23% usage. While it's not as good as how the usage stats make it look, this high of usage doesn't really surprise me and here's why:

Ninjask is able to perform a couple different roles in the metagame. While it's able to set up rocks as as lead, troll users with Truant, or ineffectively scare other teams with OHKO moves, Ninjask is best as a Comaphazer. Comatose is one of the few reliable abilities that aren't Neutralized by Neutralizing Gas (it's not neutralized by gastro acid). With base 160 Speed, the Comatose ability, and Sleep Talk, this Pokemon is able phaze other Pokemon out faster than anything else could and force Pokemon into dynamaxing. This strategy alone is influential enough to the point where almost every solid team is required to have at least one Magic Bounce user. They get tossed around otherwise and unless several of your Pokemon have Magic Coat, Magic Coat becomes an unreliable method of taking care of this. Zacian-Crowned is able to follow up on this strategy but isn't as popular due to not being the fastest Pokemon. However, the comaphazing strategy tends to need at least two users to be used at its fullest potential and Ninjask is so frail that as an individual, it needs the support of other Ninjask to be at its full potential. Because of this, most solid teams that run Ninjask run more than one Ninjask and the stack that comes from running multiple Ninjask on a team is reflected in it being top 3.

As you can see almost all the best things below Ninjask are stuff that are influenced by the presence of Eternamax, and/or against its methods of beating it out while a few things focus specifically on Zacian-Crowned. Things such as Indeedee, Mewtwo, Kyurem-White, and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings are examples of Pokemon capable of sweeping past Eternamax, Dragapult and Gourgeist are prominent leads outside Eternamax and Zac-C since able to set up rocks and block Rapid Spin (Defog isn't used as rocks are oftentimes definitely needed to beat Focus Sash, Eternamax and Zac-C), any Dark or Steel-type in the top 40 are used to block Stored Power, any good Wonder Guard either sets up to sweep by themselves, perishtraps OHKO Eternamax and Zac-C, or sets up to Baton Pass into either Mewtwo or Indeedee. Aside from Eternamax, Reshiram is the primary check to Zacian-Crowned and is often used specifically to target that Pokemon, but in consideration, is forced to run OHKO or set up + eternabeam in order to give Eternamax less of a chance to safely switch in and carry out free turns.

I'll post a few more details about the usage stats in a future post. I tried making this post quick and relatively simple. Thank you all for looking into it if you've done so. Join in and let us know what your thoughts on these usage stats if you have any. I know it's a bit late but expect the first batch of viability rankings to come up soon!

It's been a good month everyone, hope most of you actually enjoyed your time playing through the ladder. Let's all continue to develop the metagame together!
 
Aside from Eternamax, Reshiram is the primary check to Zacian-Crowned and is often used specifically to target that Pokemon, but in consideration, is forced to run OHKO or set up + eternabeam in order to give Eternamax less of a chance to safely switch in and carry out free turns.
kinda wanna mention gyarados/corviknight, specically this set
Gyarados @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Adamant Nature
- Spectral Thief / Will-O-Wisp / Whirlwind / Utility
- Earthquake / Fire Lash / Pyro Ball
- Magic Coat / Pivot / OHKO
- Recover

Careful for corvi, adamant for gyara
Resists DIB and immune to fissure. Rocky Helmet deters flinch cheese. Comatose stops status from being annoying. Magic Coat reflects taunt, so that they can recover. A SE Physical move in order to break subs and potentially K.O. Also could pair with Aegislash, which resists DIB/Horn Drill.
Reshiram isn't particularly common. Scarf Reshi is predictable (Zac will switch) and is probably worse than defensive reshi. Smash Reshi needs more hazards than kyu-w and a moveslot for recover, but could also work.
Ninjask is able to perform a couple different roles in the metagame. While it's able to set up rocks as as lead, troll users with Truant, or ineffectively scare other teams with OHKO moves, Ninjask is best as a Comaphazer... Zacian-Crowned is able to follow up on this strategy but isn't as popular due to not being the fastest Pokemon. However, the comaphazing strategy tends to need at least two users to be used at its fullest potential and Ninjask is so frail that as an individual, it needs the support of other Ninjask to be at its full potential. Because of this, most solid teams that run Ninjask run more than one Ninjask and the stack that comes from running multiple Ninjask on a team is reflected in it being top 3.
ninjask is much worse than zacian as a comaphaser. scarf zacian will only lose to other scarf ninjask/zacian and zacian doesn't have a SR weakness\
rock lead is THE best use for ninjask, or as a general sleep lead that's faster than normal zac
rocks are oftentimes definitely
nice
defog is nice as an emergency or if opponent is using a spinblocker aggreively
 
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Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader

Gen 8 Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings!

Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is the first of many resources that are made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in alphabetical order. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokemon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are being reasonable. The council will then take thought into each nomination and carefully form decisions regarding them. Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokemon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be the closer to fact than subjective opinions.

As time passes these ranks will be given clear, legible definitions and the rankings on each Pokemon will become strongly based on their correspondence to those definitions.
Current Viability Council
:azumarill: Monsareeasy
:audino-mega:Ransei
:dragapult:Tmi489


Ranking starts below:
Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax

S Rank
Zacian-Crowned

A Rank
A+
Indeedee
Kyurem-White
Mewtwo
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

A
Aegislash
Reshiram

A-
Grimmsnarl
Mandibuzz
Umbreon

B Rank
B+
Dragapult
Gourgeist-Super
Melmetal
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ninjask

B
Corviknight
Gourgeist-Large
Seismitoad
Obstagoon

B-
Drapion
Gyarados
Tyranitar
Zeraora

C Rank
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
Snorlax
Zacian
Zamazenta

BLACKLIST - The Pokemon below are strictly forbidden from any discussion on ranking.
Arcanine
Cinderace
Darmanitan
 

Gen 8 Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings!

Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is the first of many resources that are made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in alphabetical order. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokemon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are being reasonable. The council will then take thought into each nomination and carefully form decisions regarding them. Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokemon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be the closer to fact than subjective opinions.

As time passes these ranks will be given clear, legible definitions and the rankings on each Pokemon will become strongly based on their correspondence to those definitions.
Current Viability Council
:azumarill: Monsareeasy
:audino-mega:Ransei
:dragapult:Tmi489


Ranking starts below:
Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax

S Rank
Zacian-Crowned

A Rank
A+
Indeedee
Kyurem-White
Mewtwo
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

A
Aegislash
Reshiram

A-
Grimmsnarl
Mandibuzz
Umbreon

B Rank
B+
Dragapult
Gourgeist-Super
Melmetal
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ninjask

B
Corviknight
Gourgeist-Large
Seismitoad
Obstagoon

B-
Drapion
Gyarados
Tyranitar
Zeraora

C Rank
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
Snorlax
Zacian
Zamazenta

BLACKLIST - The Pokemon below are strictly forbidden from any discussion on ranking.
Arcanine
Cinderace
Darmanitan
Indeedee deserves its position Indeed! That’s definitely something we can agree on.

I am surprised to see Darmanitan-Galar-Z so low, it is one of the few Pokemon that can outspeed nearly everything else you ranked and has a coverage move capable of at least 2HKOing them.

V-Create is only resisted by Dragapult, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Reshiram, and Seismitoad, not including Eternatus.

Icicle Crash, Fishous Rend, and Bolt Beak KO the former 3, while even Icicle Crash 2HKOs Seismitoad and Reshiram. Fishous Rend obviously does even more! But I am using Icicle Crash bc it’s the weakest guaranteed to use move.

252 Atk Choice Band Abomasnow Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 211-249 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Abomasnow Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Reshiram: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

If it gets flinched it may as well be a 1HKO.

Many of the Pokemon in the list are Steel, and Neutralizing Gas prevents their ability from working, so they are unable to block it.

I think although it is fragile, and not as fast as Zacian-C, it has such good STAB that it should be B+.

I am genuinely scratching my head as to why it’s only C.
 
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Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
Alright so regarding Darmanitan-Galar-Zen... it's going to take a lot for it to work.

Every Pokemon on the VR has some way to either deal with Eternamax, Zacian-Crowned, or any of the sweepers in A+. In this metagame, you are going to see a tremendous amount of teams filled with plenty of Eternamax or Zacian-Crowned and both are very easily able to deal with Darmanitan by either outright walling it or outspeeding and beating it with Double Iron Bash.

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen comes with a load of problems outside the main ones mentioned above. Here are plenty of them.

1) It is either x4 weak to a single layer of Stealth Rock (Safety Goggles, Focus Sash, Lum Berry) or is vulnerable to Spore (Heavy Duty Boots, Focus Sash).
2) Shell Smash isn't effective for Darmanitan-Galar-Zen because its best Ice-type physical STABs are weak.
3) Darmanitan-Galar-Zen at x4 Attack with Belly Drum is still outsped by Zacian-Crowned, likely prone to Spore, and is forced to Dynamax in order to break Eternamax or else it could still be walled by it. This is unless one layer of spikes and one layer of stealth rocks are already up by then. The meta is very rapid spin-heavy and sometimes very taunt-heavy so the chances you'd get enough hazards up by then are low. Not to mention it still needs Sticky Webs up in order to outspeed any Zacian-Crowned.
4) With everything considered in #3, it's already mostly outclassed by Kyurem-White. Kyurem-White doesn't take 50% from rocks, is able to outspeed at least the Zacian-Crowned without Scarf while still being able to OHKO Eternamax after setting up once.
5) Belly Drum is already ruined if Darmanitan-Galar-Zen manages to touch Stealth Rock, either through not having Heavy-Duty-Boots or having that item knocked off.
6) If it does have that item there's a chance it could be easily halted by Spore. (Both 5 and 6 are elaborated versions of 1)
7) Any faster Wonder Guard or Wonder Guard who tanks the Darmanitan's move once could also use Gastro Acid on it beforehand then boost their speed.

252 Atk Choice Band Abomasnow Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 211-249 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- 2HKO
That means this calc is virtually pointless because Seismitoad could just take a hit and Gastro Acid to wall unless a flinch happens, which by then they could make an easy switchin into Eternamax, or if they know it's Choice Band, they could make an easy switchin into Zacian-Crowned.

8) You are not using Darmanitan-Galar-Zen as a breaker and most of the mons you pointed out are irrelevant in that matchup as they would rather be some sort of lead just to set up rocks and probably faint, switch into Eternamax and stand around to wait for an opportunity to increase their speed to block stuff with Gastro Acid, be there only to fend off against Stored Power or Power Trip sweepers, be there to find an easier opportunity to sweep, be there to fend off against Zacian-Crowned, or Comaphaze.

I've repeated some things for emphasis on how destructive they are to Darmanitan-Galar-Zen's viability ranking.

252 Atk Choice Band Abomasnow Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Reshiram: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
Also if the Reshiram stays in to survive this move, it probably means the Reshiram is setting up a Shell Smash to screw the opposing team over. Otherwise, good chances are you'd only be using the Darmanitan-Galar-Zen against Reshiram on a hard switchin from the Zacian-Crowned Reshiram is there to target and scare off. If they aren't setting up, they could just switch back into Eternamax.

This mon is fortunate enough to even be ranked. Stars would have to align in order for this thing to work and this is unless someone can figure out a more efficient way to utilize it while ignoring the impact from hazards.
 
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Ok Here is gonna be some wild thoughts on Gen 8 PH and I want people that read this to just think about this deeply and think it over if there gonna make comments upon my thoughts and opinions and also keep in mind i did top ladder so I do have some experience.

First and foremost: "ctrl + f ferrothorn no results found"
Ferrothorn so needs ranked. Its a steel mon that also eats stored power immune to spore slow pivot. Beats 6 eternmax 5 final gambit and psong because it is slower then psong eternmax and therefore faints last. This mon is truly amazing for its different uses. So unsure where Ransei and the gang wanna put it but thats up to them but it for sure needs ranked at lest In B/B+.

Now on to my other big points. I truly believe this meta is so insanely centralized unlike any other meta game i ever played. Taking that into account Eternamax rank is reasonable.

What i Find tho also truly centralizing is is just from A to Eternamax rank. Yes the main meta and 90+% of the meta should be just A to Eternamax. This means I find even A- niche in some aspects however there still miles better then B+ or below. Reason for this is just full Presence and centralization of Eternamax and Zacian-Crown. The power the speed Zacian-C holds everyone should be familar with if they played even 1 game. And the insane power bulk utility Eternamax holds is unlike any other. So we need checks to these mons. And in a way Eternamax checks Eternamax and Zac Checks Zac. But we also want other checks to these mons. So we turn to our most powerful sweepers.

These sweepers are mewtwo,kyu,indeedee and ,ndw Mainly. These mons are able to get up either stored power or even more powerful moves up like eternabeam and Prismatic laser. Refrencing my work in progress calcs page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wNtGNG5YkqsPGulhxOmYQPlwrmvMGIYT2E11V-bup3U/edit

I find Eternabeam and Prismatic laser even better but stored power is still good. In dynamax after a smash your able to pretty much ohko everything in meta game after rocks including even eternmax with either of the 2 huge power moves i mentioned and hammer every other mon with coverage such as fire/ground/fairy move mainly. Not many mons are able to eat the hits of these mons after smash and here by need checks and again its kinda back and forth between Eternamax and Zac and these sweepers. Zac and eternamax can run spectral roar haze whirl ect to help deal with these mons and they are able to be fast enough or bulky enough to be able to accomplish these task. Generally most other mons in the teir can't besides our beloved A teir and bulky steels (also a weaker sweeper that checks zac named Reshiram is there as well)

Steels are weaker then our more top mons but they provide use in resisting stab double iron bash from zac are bulky enough to eat dragon and psychic hits. just by existing with in the game they force eternamax or zac to have to run moves to prep for them making them lack other moves they may want.

Dark mons do a similar thing however they are not near as tanky as Steels and get 2hko-ohko by +2 sweepers as well and generally darks also are not fast enough to taunt them down. However they can still roar/whirl/spectral just like steels but you have to play a lot more safely with them as they just can't tank as much. And they don't resist Double iron bash zac and also take more chip from eterna coverage if they run any ever.

So really this meta game comes down to Eternamax rank to A-. And sometimes its just better to run a steel or perhaps consider a steel over a dark mon. And ultimately zac eterna sweepers they all hammer and destroy any other mon that "exist" and they make those mons bad or niche in most cases. And also not only do they take a ton but they can't do a lot back. So truly its so centralized its just a handful of mons. And you might also consider "well what about ohko moves?" I mean even i used OHKO a lot to get to first. However i noticed that zac was just flat out faster can sub taunt hit things with dib and out right kill them before anything else can do something and really a lot of these things also are not even the other B+ and below mons fault. Its just that Neutralizing gas exist and they are outpaced by tanky or powerful speed mons. And eternamax also eats moves from lower ranks and ofc steels and darks but they actually handle sweepers where as other mons that also don't do much to eternamax can't handle zac or sweepers either and therefore outclassed. I find this a really sad fact. But I come to terms with accepting that the meta game is this way. Its down to sweepers zac eterna and the tanky steels or dark mons.

This leads into my last big point. Personally My teir list would be this but with Corviknight to A. Ferrothorn to A. Perhaps also add dusclops to like B- create a D rank for reg zacian and zamazentas other gourgeist forms and any other meme out there ig. But really I actually find this pretty close to what I would make. However mine would say B+ below need a lot of support and or are niche. After playing at top ladder of this meta you can really get a much better feel for how its just generally better to take a zac or eterna or sweeper or steel or dark over any other mon out there. And generally you only want 1 steel or dark and perhaps 1-2 sweepers and rest being eterna or zac thats my general theory upon the best teams out there. Since how i peaked with corvi i peaked with ferro and i peaked lastly with 4 zacs and 2 eternas. Perhaps You may find a little bias in the fact of my own experience but every time i fight lower mons or i just compare lower mons to the A- and above it shows me just how much they are outclassed how niche they are or how much support they need to work right. How much harder it is to play with them ect.

This meta really is Ohko sweepers and tanks. and sadly those others below A- don't cut it for this kind of crazy meta.
Hope to see the viability ranking change with ferro add dusclops add and corvi raise. Have a great day for all those that read this. :3
 
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Ok Here is gonna be some wild thoughts on Gen 8 PH and I want people that read this to just think about this deeply and think it over if there gonna make comments upon my thoughts and opinions and also keep in mind i did top ladder so I do have some experience.

First and foremost: "ctrl + f ferrothorn no results found"
Ferrothorn so needs ranked. Its a steel mon that also eats stored power immune to spore slow pivot. Beats 6 eternmax 5 final gambit and psong because it is slower then psong eternmax and therefore faints last. This mon is truly amazing for its different uses. So unsure where Ransei and the gang wanna put it but thats up to them but it for sure needs ranked at lest In B/B+.

Now on to my other big points. I truly believe this meta is so insanely centralized unlike any other meta game i ever played. Taking that into account Eternamax rank is reasonable.

What i Find tho also truly centralizing is is just from A to Eternamax rank. Yes the main meta and 90+% of the meta should be just A to Eternamax. This means I find even A- niche in some aspects however there still miles better then B+ or below. Reason for this is just full Presence and centralization of Eternamax and Zacian-Crown. The power the speed Zacian-C holds everyone should be familar with if they played even 1 game. And the insane power bulk utility Eternamax holds is unlike any other. So we need checks to these mons. And in a way Eternamax checks Eternamax and Zac Checks Zac. But we also want other checks to these mons. So we turn to our most powerful sweepers.

These sweepers are mewtwo,kyu,indeedee and ,ndw Mainly. These mons are able to get up either stored power or even more powerful moves up like eternabeam and Prismatic laser. Refrencing my work in progress calcs page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wNtGNG5YkqsPGulhxOmYQPlwrmvMGIYT2E11V-bup3U/edit

I find Eternabeam and Prismatic laser even better but stored power is still good. In dynamax after a smash your able to pretty much ohko everything in meta game after rocks including even eternmax with either of the 2 huge power moves i mentioned and hammer every other mon with coverage such as fire/ground/fairy move mainly. Not many mons are able to eat the hits of these mons after smash and here by need checks and again its kinda back and forth between Eternamax and Zac and these sweepers. Zac and eternamax can run spectral roar haze whirl ect to help deal with these mons and they are able to be fast enough or bulky enough to be able to accomplish these task. Generally most other mons in the teir can't besides our beloved A teir and bulky steels (also a weaker sweeper that checks zac named Reshiram is there as well)

Steels are weaker then our more top mons but they provide use in resisting stab double iron bash from zac are bulky enough to eat dragon and psychic hits. just by existing with in the game they force eternamax or zac to have to run moves to prep for them making them lack other moves they may want.

Dark mons do a similar thing however they are not near as tanky as Steels and get 2hko-ohko by +2 sweepers as well and generally darks also are not fast enough to taunt them down. However they can still roar/whirl/spectral just like steels but you have to play a lot more safely with them as they just can't tank as much. And they don't resist Double iron bash zac and also take more chip from eterna coverage if they run any ever.

So really this meta game comes down to Eternamax rank to A-. And sometimes its just better to run a steel or perhaps consider a steel over a dark mon. And ultimately zac eterna sweepers they all hammer and destroy any other mon that "exist" and they make those mons bad or niche in most cases. And also not only do they take a ton but they can't do a lot back. So truly its so centralized its just a handful of mons. And you might also consider "well what about ohko moves?" I mean even i used OHKO a lot to get to first. However i noticed that zac was just flat out faster can sub taunt hit things with dib and out right kill them before anything else can do something and really a lot of these things also are not even the other B+ and below mons fault. Its just that Neutralizing gas exist and they are outpaced by tanky or powerful speed mons. And eternamax also eats moves from lower ranks and ofc steels and darks but they actually handle sweepers where as other mons that also don't do much to eternamax can't handle zac or sweepers either and therefore outclassed. I find this a really sad fact. But I come to terms with accepting that the meta game is this way. Its down to sweepers zac eterna and the tanky steels or dark mons.

This leads into my last big point. Personally My teir list would be this but with Corviknight to A. Ferrothorn to A. Perhaps also add dusclops to like B- create a D rank for reg zacian and zamazentas other gourgeist forms and any other meme out there ig. But really I actually find this pretty close to what I would make. However mine would say B+ below need a lot of support and or are niche. After playing at top ladder of this meta you can really get a much better feel for how its just generally better to take a zac or eterna or sweeper or steel or dark over any other mon out there. And generally you only want 1 steel or dark and perhaps 1-2 sweepers and rest being eterna or zac thats my general theory upon the best teams out there. Since how i peaked with corvi i peaked with ferro and i peaked lastly with 4 zacs and 2 eternas. Perhaps You may find a little bias in the fact of my own experience but every time i fight lower mons or i just compare lower mons to the A- and above it shows me just how much they are outclassed how niche they are or how much support they need to work right. How much harder it is to play with them ect.

This meta really is Ohko sweepers and tanks. and sadly those others below A- don't cut it for this kind of crazy meta.
Hope to see the viability ranking change with ferro add dusclops add and corvi raise. Have a great day for all those that read this. :3
I totally agree, especially about Ferrothorn. I find it the best check to Indeedee due to Spore Immunity, and Steel-type resistances to Moonblast, Boomburst, and Stored Power, so it can prevent Indeedee from getting to its second Shell Smash, while others fear Safety Goggles getting Knocked Off.

I will concede on Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, I know it’s flaws are there, I just didn’t feel it was the worst of the worst, but after reading both you and Rainsei’s posts, I see that B+ is too high for it. If only there was a C+, and C- Rank, but I guess Ransei states it barely made it so it would be C-, if he divided the C ranks up.

In either case, Ferrothorn is definitely forgotten but very important, and I will leave it at that.
 
I feel for this meta specifically there is a huge gap bewteen A+ tier and everythig below.B rank could be completely vacant since anything ranked under it is so much weaker than eternamax/zacc,heavily agree with bahamut points onthis.Also i think ninjask is rated too low it has some good niche uses due to its speed.I dont see why grimmsnarl is ranked in the same tier with umbreon/mandibuzz it lacks a lot of bulk and doesnt resist fissure.It has higher atk so maybe it can dynamax vs setup psychic types/kyuw?not sure here but i think umb/mandi should be ranked higher
 

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