Purple Poppy

joshua

joshua

I just about this on the news and was personally thought that it was completely disrespectful.


ARMISTICE SUNDAY SERVICE FOR ANIMALS
Posted 5 November 2008
Animals' War Memorial adjacent to Hyde Park, off Park Lane, London 09/11/2008 10:30
As well as the tragic loss of countless human lives in wars, it is often forgotten that millions of animals have also died on the battlefield and in experiments to develop yet more ways to kill people. Therefore, as well as the ceremonies to remember people at the Cenotaph in Whitehall and at other war memorials throughout the UK, there is a ceremony to remember animals on this Sunday (November 9) at 10.30 a.m. at the Animals’ War Memorial adjacent to Hyde Park, off Park Lane and just about opposite to the Dorchester Hotel.
The Reverend Pastor James Thompson - known to many down the years as ‘The Animals' Padre’ - hopes to come down from North Wales to officiate. All are welcome at this short and dignified service of remembrance. An opportunity to lay posies and wreaths will follow the 2 minutes silence.
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In addition to this which is on another page, they get people to wear purple poppies instead of the usual red in memory of the animals who died in the war. I'm not sure if people wear poppies outside of the UK, but basically everybody wears in the week or so leading up to Remembrance Day.

Site: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_other//2001//

I am a person who dislikes animal charities, because I think the money could be better used helping people, but I normally just let it go as I understand its what they believe is right, but personally I think that this is taking it too far. I think that it is completely irrelevant and disrespectful to the millions of people who died fighting in World War I, II and other wars, especially as they are trying to make it as an additional part of Remembrance Day.

Opinions?
 
I fail to see how this is at all disrespectful; it is just one more ceremony. And why does it matter to begin with? I doubt their corpses really care what people do on an arbitrary day. I thought ancestor worship was contrary to western ideals.
 
Before the plague of humans took over the earth, animals lived in peace with one another. No species waged genocide on another for means of commercial profit. Entire biomes and ecosystems where not destroyed. Scientific tests where not done to on one another just place a disclaimer on a failing medication. When humans came along at first, animals where respected as equal forms of life. But since the plague of modern man has spread, animals have been put behind us in terms of value.

Man has always been hostile to its self. This will never change. Man has lived in peace with animals up until the past 3 century. We owe animals a hell of a lot more than a fucking statue.

Begin voluntary human eradication now!
 
Ambitions said:
Before the plague of humans took over the earth, animals lived in peace with one another No species waged genocide on another for means of commercial profit.
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I don't know about systematic genocide, but that's really not true at all.
 
I could understand this being disrespectful if they were putting more attention on the animals than the humans.

However, from what I understand, they're just adding a ceremony for the animals as well, and it's not like it's taking anything away from the human ceremony either. I understand that some people don't care about animals, but a lot of people do, and it's not like anyone's being forced to go to the animal ceremony either, just like no one's forced to go to the human remembrance one either.

I personally think that adding an animal remembrance ceremony is a great idea. Honestly, I hate how a lot of people have just seen animals as property. For example, horses used to be the main mode of transportation, however, unlike a car, this is an actual life here. The horses did not ask to be put into wars either, they were forced to by their owners. They had to put their lives on the line for these people who saw them as nothing more than property. If they couldn't run anymore, they'd be killed, because they were supposedly useless.

That's why I'm glad that they're finally recognizing these animals, they were putting just as much on the line as the humans in the war - their life, even though it was not their war, and they merely just forced into it.
 
Surgo, 39 million cows where killed in the US last year. Technically speaking, animals can have a genocide performed against them though, since they arn't human. But more Cows are in an environment that will lead to there systematic slaughter for corporate benefit than not.

EDIT: Wait, how was what I said before not 100% factual?
 
The untrue part was "they lived in peace with one another". There may have been an environmental balance, but that does mean they lived peacefully. In the "animal kingdom", there aren't really "feelings" or peace, just eat and fuck as much as you possibly can.
 
Peace was a bad word choice, but you get my point. Humans don't kill for survival. They kill for sport, profit, and belief (which is normally based around a foolish religious belief).
 
Well, you're still wearing the poppy anyways. Changing the colour to recognize animals in addition to humans isn't that bad. Disrespect would be stopping poppies.
 
Maybe we should also a Memorial for every animal we eat, too ?_?

Answer to off-topic: Us humans are at the top of the food chain, I don't see how that's difficult to understand.
 
Ambitions said:
EDIT: Wait, how was what I said before not 100% factual?
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Various species and tribes of monkeys/apes/whatnot in the rain forest are 'at war' (or as close as animals can be) with each other all the fucking time. Yes, that includes killing each other. There's one example.

(Source: Planet Earth. It even has videos of this happening.)
 
Ambitions said:
Surgo, 39 million cows where killed in the US last year. Technically speaking, animals can have a genocide performed against them though, since they arn't human. But more Cows are in an environment that will lead to there systematic slaughter for corporate benefit than not.

EDIT: Wait, how was what I said before not 100% factual?
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Well maybe cows should stop tasting so good. :3

That ceremony actually sounds like a nice idea to me, though. Animals have always been quite helpful to war effort and they deserve recognition.

Oh and referring to what Surgo said, monkey wars are awesome!
 
This thing is as far as I know very few animal died in the First World War. They brought lots of horses to use as cavalry, but when they realised that the war would be fought in trenches and such, they ended up eating most of them due to lack of food.
 
joshua said:
This thing is as far as I know very few animal died in the First World War. They brought lots of horses to use as cavalry, but when they realised that the war would be fought in trenches and such, they ended up eating most of them due to lack of food.
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Yes, horses would be no good at all in trenches, but the horses were still useful to war effort through being a desperately needed food source and maybe that made those who ate them feel guilty. I think Native Americans regularly honored all the Buffalo they killed for food and stuff for the same reasons because it was necessary to their survival, so maybe this is where the idea came from.
 
i don't think they should be holding a service for these animals at all. they are just animals... the day that a monkey holds up his hand and says that he would rather not be a participant in this study due to various moral and ethical reasons is the day animal testing should be brought to a halt.
 
I'm pretty sure monkeys object to testing on themselves, even though they can't communicate with words. Do you really think animals remain completely docile when they're used as lab subjects?

In any case it's probably illegal to test on monkeys anyways.
 
vespa said:
i don't think they should be holding a service for these animals at all. they are just animals... the day that a monkey holds up his hand and says that he would rather not be a participant in this study due to various moral and ethical reasons is the day animal testing should be brought to a halt.
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Wow! PETA would be all over your ass right about now, lol!!


However, I kinda agree. I do not think those animals need a ceremony. They are just doing their deed to help make society as a whole a better place. Humans get tested too for science, but we do not celebrate those people, do we?

If this was a ceremony for animals that were pets, then it would be a little different, because they have emotional attachment to people and are considered part of the family.
 
People are animals. Non-human animals deserve respect too, within the confines of what they are. Animals have emotional and social lives, they simply do not have as complex lives as ours. They are our wards, not our toys or meals. I fail to see how this is even slightly disrespectful.
 
I don't see the harm in something like this as long as its not coming out of my tax dollars lol. People have pointless remembrance ceremonies for things that will never love them back all the time. I don't understand why someone would compare an animal, who is just a trained killing machine, to a soldier, who is just a tr-......wait.....
 
Obviously you have never seen african wild dog's pack structure, T+b, the highest efficiency kill rate of any predator. In what way is systematic planning from (in the past) up to thousands of individuals at a time on a single hunt not as complex as our lives? All I ever do is go to work, sit around and post here.

Animals aren't our wards, we are just outcompeting them.

Ambitions you are so clearly biased towards veganism it's not even funny. It's quite interesting that you turn your back on your own evolutionary heritage- without the induction of bone marrows and carrion into our diets, as well as kills later on, our minds wouldn't be nearly as developed. Animals that eat meat are consistently the smartest animals in any ecosystem, so just admit it- meat eating has its merits.

I don't see how a dog charging enemies lines is any different from a person, except that they have to get right in close before they can do any actual damage. Animals, in some cases, played very important roles on the battlefield. They gave their lives for the war, it is completely ignorant to think respecting them brings disrespect to the people who fought and died. I'm sure the people on the lines respected the animals that functioned as service/attack animals, especially the ones that were at the business end of a german attack dog.
 
vespa said:
i don't think they should be holding a service for these animals at all. they are just animals... the day that a monkey holds up his hand and says that he would rather not be a participant in this study due to various moral and ethical reasons is the day animal testing should be brought to a halt.
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they are just corpses, much like dead people are just corpses.

how can you find this disrespectful at all, op? if you wanna pull the 'well the time/money could be better spent' then maybe you should realize that your fucking BRAIN POWER could be better spent by worrying about things that actually matter instead of being outraged over something so completely trivial.
 
Animals aren't our wards, we are just outcompeting them.
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Um. Yes. We are. But that's not justification for cruelty, it happens whether or not we observe the fact that they are, like us, complex emotional beings. I'm outcompeting a brain-injury victim, but I you don't see me pretend that I don't have ethical commitments to brain-injury victims.
 
Oh I'm not condoning abuse at all, but honestly animals being eaten or losing their habitat is all part of being outcompeted. Some animals seem to be learning to cope- a decade ago the pronghorn antelope in Alberta was taking serious hits to population, now they are like rats. The only thing that has changed was that since the increase, we've increased hunting allowances for them.

We do have an ethical commitment to these animals, but I'm just saying that it doesn't mean we have to bend over backwards just to give them the best chance at survival.
 
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