thanks for the comments, that's what I get when I write this too quickly... and I never caught it to boot...
Anyways, writing sentences out now.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
[QC Ready 0/3] Gengar
- Thread starter CrobatFTW
- Start date
Anyways, writing sentences out now.
Did more research after I asked yesterday, and indeed I don't believe perish song is currently obtainable on Gengar due to a lack of breeding partners (Misdreavus/magius are currently unavailable and the new pokemon in the amorphous group don't have access to it through level up or breeding). So just throwing that out there in regard to the mega-evo set for what it's worth.
SubDisable is Gengar's best answer to SuckerPunch MegaKangashan (and everything else), who otherwise simply scratches is back looking Gengar dying as nothing. Since Gengar is immune to sound moves for they're all normal type (well, we are only afraid of Boomburst, aren't we?), and is afraid only of Noivern and Crobat, behind a substitute, I can't see why don't we put the good ol' SubDisable set. Only faster pokés and Exploud really threatens this set.
-Change your preview structure to the new format which you can find here.
-For the second set, moveslot 3, remove Hidden Power Fire and Thunderbolt, locking yourself into Thunderbolt is pretty bad. You already hit bulky waters hard with Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Ice is useful as you can revenge scarf dragons or ones at +1 and have the added benefit of being immune to Dragonite's E-Speed. Hidden Power Ice / Trick should be slot 3. If you feel Thunderbolt is useful, make mention in AC.
-Sub-Disable set is really good this generation (have seen it used by other players to great success) and I think should also get a set but leave that open for now until other QC members chime in.
-For the second set, moveslot 3, remove Hidden Power Fire and Thunderbolt, locking yourself into Thunderbolt is pretty bad. You already hit bulky waters hard with Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Ice is useful as you can revenge scarf dragons or ones at +1 and have the added benefit of being immune to Dragonite's E-Speed. Hidden Power Ice / Trick should be slot 3. If you feel Thunderbolt is useful, make mention in AC.
-Sub-Disable set is really good this generation (have seen it used by other players to great success) and I think should also get a set but leave that open for now until other QC members chime in.
I'm sorry about the delays. I've had a lot going on... long story... anyways, making changes now.
I haven't seen sub-split set in a while, so the main drawback (out of infiltrators and exploud boomburst) of the sub-disable set is it's predictability once the opponent sees the substitute, if using it against non-suckerpunch faster threats. I think.
Echoing this. Unless Phantump or Stunfisk receive it through breeding this gen, there's currently no way to chain Perish Song onto a Gastly. The Perish Song set is unobtainable pre-Pokebank, sadly.
Aww... that's a disappointment... I'll keep it in small print or a spoiler for now in case there is a legal breeding method that is discovered, but looks like I'll have to use another set or something instead...
Can you explain further how this is better than any of the sets listed? Taunt might be good for walls, but isn't it better with Substitute for that reason? Maybe it might work decently well if Perish song is not available...
I will mention that in checks and counters! Thanks for the input as well.
Edit: done edting
Last edited:
Remove the Perish Trapper set please. Not only is it currently illegal, but it's a terrible set and a complete waste of Mega Gengar's potential. It's a gimmick at best.
Change the Mega Gengar attacking set to simply this:
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Destiny Bond / Taunt
Destiny Bond + 3 attacks is probably the best Mega Gengar set you can possibly run. Not only can it bring down Sucker Punch users with it, it can basically guarantee you score at least two kills. One of which is the one you revenge kill, while the other you potentially take down with you if you have no other options. I slashed Taunt because it's still pretty good as well, making it defeat the likes of Blissey and Chansey (basically destroy stall in general), as well as preventing other moves from being used, such as status, entry hazards, and even boosting moves. Call the set "Special Attacker," since Megattacker or whatever you have is really bad for a set name.
I might have more later, but do that for now.
Change the Mega Gengar attacking set to simply this:
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Destiny Bond / Taunt
Destiny Bond + 3 attacks is probably the best Mega Gengar set you can possibly run. Not only can it bring down Sucker Punch users with it, it can basically guarantee you score at least two kills. One of which is the one you revenge kill, while the other you potentially take down with you if you have no other options. I slashed Taunt because it's still pretty good as well, making it defeat the likes of Blissey and Chansey (basically destroy stall in general), as well as preventing other moves from being used, such as status, entry hazards, and even boosting moves. Call the set "Special Attacker," since Megattacker or whatever you have is really bad for a set name.
I might have more later, but do that for now.
It isn't available. Destiny Bond is solid because most people will switch into some kind of Gengar check, and it can efficiently lure that Gengar check with Destiny Bond. Gengar also can live things like Bullet Punches from Scizor now, and Dbond them to their demise. The Taunt+Dbond combo also deals with SD scizor, and can stop Stealth Rock from coming through (note how p much all good SR users are bad vs Gengar, except for MegaTar) MegaTar can also get hit by a Focus Blast, and with taunt, its a solid prediction war to stop SR. Gengar is a really good counter+SR user and early game-opening lure with the Taunt Dbond Set
I don't know if this is an old or discarded set, but trying it out you can find that with proper prediction this set I've "built" can really be threatening. Just to prove that normal Gengar has some more cards up its sleeve to play:
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb
This set is a kind of a replica of MegaGengar's one, but it doesn't aim trapping the opponent (as Shadow Tag would), only deceive. Gengar can count on very good Special Attack and spam either Shadow Ball or Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb as long as it finds one of it's typical counters in front of itself. In a situation like this, you have many options:
- SuckerPuncher: Gengar can freely attack the opponent, being sure that (SR-away-wisely) it will survive while inflicting a decent amount of damage or simply taking the opponent out. Now you must predict you're opponents move, and decide whether have a free switch in on another Sucker Punch, or bring your opponent down with you with DBond.
- Sweepers: if a slower thus bulky sweeper comes in and try to set up, just Taunt him. Whether it attacks immediately or not, this won't be a real problem. If it fails, attack him on next turn, if it leaves Gengar with 1 HP (or will have a sure KO) DBond on it.
There are more uses for this set, it's only harder to use against faster opponents (if they're frail, just attack them). Main advantage of this set is its tricky unpredictability, granting you serious damage to the opponent, where properly combined with good teammates.
I really like how it works, just try it out. I find it a possible set.
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb
This set is a kind of a replica of MegaGengar's one, but it doesn't aim trapping the opponent (as Shadow Tag would), only deceive. Gengar can count on very good Special Attack and spam either Shadow Ball or Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb as long as it finds one of it's typical counters in front of itself. In a situation like this, you have many options:
- SuckerPuncher: Gengar can freely attack the opponent, being sure that (SR-away-wisely) it will survive while inflicting a decent amount of damage or simply taking the opponent out. Now you must predict you're opponents move, and decide whether have a free switch in on another Sucker Punch, or bring your opponent down with you with DBond.
- Sweepers: if a slower thus bulky sweeper comes in and try to set up, just Taunt him. Whether it attacks immediately or not, this won't be a real problem. If it fails, attack him on next turn, if it leaves Gengar with 1 HP (or will have a sure KO) DBond on it.
There are more uses for this set, it's only harder to use against faster opponents (if they're frail, just attack them). Main advantage of this set is its tricky unpredictability, granting you serious damage to the opponent, where properly combined with good teammates.
I really like how it works, just try it out. I find it a possible set.
Mention Focus Sash somewhere it still works. Especially if you are running Defog (not that you'd use it ONLY for Gengar, but like if you had Dragonite or Volcarona whatnot, than why not use Sash if you're going to run Defog? It's also viable w/o DF support anyway but it's something to consider).
I thought about the Focus Sash set and decided to make a set. If only it got Counter. Oh well. Still seems usable. I'll try it out on the ladder tomorrow, but for now it is there. I made the changes and a few others. Feel free to keep commenting, esp. about the SubDisable set. Now should Gengar and/or Mega Gengar get one? We really need more QC opinions because there are.. err.. differing opinions.. on this topic.
In the Focus Sash set you just edited, I would say that Taunt doesn't work only for special walls, but also to lure one particular threat to the entire team (Gengar's too) in the DBond trap. That was the key function I initially figured for this move. Obviously, thanks to Gengar's speed, in can work as a good Taunter, even an anti-lead (a job much better accomplished for example by Sableye, though). Let's say that Taunt is for mind tricks, and to force slower sweeper to attack (and be taken out by DBond or Gengar's attack). Also, this set could potentially work as an anti-MegaGengar, maybe leaving Gengar alive against its Mega form (sorry, but that would be epic, to say the least *.*). Haven't tried yet to use it against a MegaGengar to see whether Shadow Ball is OHKO or not, but I will soon. Maybe can some expert do the calculations? XD
I'm not on the QC team, but I have a few suggestions.
First, I believe you need 3 QC checks before writing this up. Your preview should be in skeleton form until then.
Second, and more importantly, you need to put a lot more emphasis on Mega Gengar's true strengths. It's not just an attacker or a revenge killer, but a team supporter. Mention that Mega Gengar's greatest talent is removing key checks and counters to teammates to assist sweeps, and that its set should be designed to trap and kill those specific targets. Although they may not need individual slashes, Thunderbolt and Hidden Power (Ice and Fire are probably the best here) in particular deserve a mention as alternate moves that can KO a specific group of Pokemon to open up for a teammate (Thunderbolt for Gyarados, HP Ice for Gliscor, HP Fire for Scizor, etc.). It would also be good to name specific teammates that benefit from this (Lucario is a good example here).
That's all I've got for now, but as SUSANOO91 mentioned, Mega Gengar is a really influential Pokemon right now. The sooner this preview is done, the better.
First, I believe you need 3 QC checks before writing this up. Your preview should be in skeleton form until then.
Second, and more importantly, you need to put a lot more emphasis on Mega Gengar's true strengths. It's not just an attacker or a revenge killer, but a team supporter. Mention that Mega Gengar's greatest talent is removing key checks and counters to teammates to assist sweeps, and that its set should be designed to trap and kill those specific targets. Although they may not need individual slashes, Thunderbolt and Hidden Power (Ice and Fire are probably the best here) in particular deserve a mention as alternate moves that can KO a specific group of Pokemon to open up for a teammate (Thunderbolt for Gyarados, HP Ice for Gliscor, HP Fire for Scizor, etc.). It would also be good to name specific teammates that benefit from this (Lucario is a good example here).
That's all I've got for now, but as SUSANOO91 mentioned, Mega Gengar is a really influential Pokemon right now. The sooner this preview is done, the better.
I'm disappointed not to see either HP Ice or Thunderbolt on Mega Gengar. These two moves are critical to take down certain Pokemon. HP Ice is useful if you want to get rid of Dragonite, Noivern, Gliscor, etc. Thunderbolt is for Skarmory and things like Vaporeon, Togekiss, Gyarados, and Talonflame. These moves are essential picks for many players, whom may wish to vanquish these threats. Attack slashes of Shadow Ball | Sludge Bomb | Focus Blast / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice are what I'm thinking.
Also, might I ask why the DBond Shadow Tag trapper is not the first set? For what is widely considered a broken Pokemon, this placement does not do it justice. I'm not going to rehash the arguments in the suspect thread IRC, etc.; this is Gengar's best set. Mega Gengar is ridiculous.
Speaking of which, the Mega Gar set doesn't even mention what it is -- a specialized trapper to support offensive Pokemon. The idea is to customize it in such a way that supports a specific Pokemon (such as Lucario or Talonflame), taking out its counters, and to revenge kill weakened threats. You have to make note of this.
I could go on, but in brief; there are few if any teammates mentioned, the roles of the sets/how to play them is not covered, and your detail is sparse. I highly recommend beefing up this analysis with details, play information, and teammates, as otherwise I can't imagine it will pass QC.
Also, might I ask why the DBond Shadow Tag trapper is not the first set? For what is widely considered a broken Pokemon, this placement does not do it justice. I'm not going to rehash the arguments in the suspect thread IRC, etc.; this is Gengar's best set. Mega Gengar is ridiculous.
Speaking of which, the Mega Gar set doesn't even mention what it is -- a specialized trapper to support offensive Pokemon. The idea is to customize it in such a way that supports a specific Pokemon (such as Lucario or Talonflame), taking out its counters, and to revenge kill weakened threats. You have to make note of this.
This blurb in and of itself makes no logical sense. If you're using this Gengar, your goal is to handle opposing hazard leads, preventing hazards from being set up. Why would you need an additional safeguard over this? I imagine that the set is best utilized on HO teams, which don't want to waste a sweeper slot on extra support. Then you mention adding SR-weak Pokemon has teammates? Perhaps they benefit from this Gengar's presence, but increasing your dependency on hazard prevention can only have negative effects. I would heavily reword the part stating to add SR-weak Pokemon as teammates, as that's not a good idea in any way.
I could go on, but in brief; there are few if any teammates mentioned, the roles of the sets/how to play them is not covered, and your detail is sparse. I highly recommend beefing up this analysis with details, play information, and teammates, as otherwise I can't imagine it will pass QC.
You should mention in the cons that mega-evolving leaves you vulnerable to super-effective ground moves. That has bitten me in the ass every time.
For "other options":
I find Thunderbolt to usually be a lot more versatile than Sludge Bomb. I don't usually run into any Fairy-type leads outside of Klefki (who is immune to it anyway).
One last thing, even though I don't run it myself personally, I see a lot of people run Dazzling Gleam on Gengar.
For "other options":
I find Thunderbolt to usually be a lot more versatile than Sludge Bomb. I don't usually run into any Fairy-type leads outside of Klefki (who is immune to it anyway).
One last thing, even though I don't run it myself personally, I see a lot of people run Dazzling Gleam on Gengar.
Last edited:
I ran a calculation on this and Dazzling gleam has no chance of OHKOing a Tyranitar. Timid Gengar @ LifeOrb will do 45.2% - 53.4% damage to a Tyranitar with no defensive investments. It will leave a dent, but Focus Miss has at lease a good chance of OHKOing TTar before he Crunches or Pursuits Gengar to the face. This also doesn't count Mega Evolutions Tyranitar and Gengar might use.
In the same scenario, LifeOrb Gengar Dazzling Gleam will OHKO Support Sableye with just a little overkill, though (the LifeOrb is necessary to kill). It will also leave a bigger dent in Noivern and Greninja leads than the alternative. (In Greninja's case, Greninja can still outspeed Gengar and drop a Dark Pulse OHKO)
I do have to agree with you that the accuracy advantage of Dazzling Gleam is very nice over Focus Miss.
One last note, not adding to anything to the original post, but in the spirit of giving positive feedback, I've been running Gengar with Shadowball,FocusBlast,Thunderbolt,Taunt:
I originally had Curse instead of Taunt, and Taunt is just so much better in almost every scenario ever. Thunderbolt is okay/good, and generally works a lot better in situations where you don't want Gengar as your lead, but you want him later in your party. MegaGengar is pretty good and strong (he hits like a truck), but his speed increase and ShadowTag aren't always useful, especially when considering Gengar's short typical lifespan. ShadowTag specifically is barely ever useful. Dropping the ground immunity is usually the biggest problem with mega evolving. You also forfeit your ability to have a different mega evolution on your team that is far tankier and (therefore) much longer lived to wreck face. I'm also contemplating swapping out Thunderbolt for something else since it seems to be the least useful move.
EDIT: What I'll start doing is keeping a tally of which hold item would've been best on Gengar since I'm contemplating FocusSash vs Gengarite vs LifeOrb.
Last edited: