OU Quagsire

[HailFall]

qc: Jukain / p2 / PK Gaming
gp: Calm Pokemaster

[OVERVIEW]

* Unaware is Quagsire's main selling point, allowing it to take on the majority of OU's physical setup sweepers such as Bisharp, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Scizor.
* Quagsire has decent physical bulk with good typing alongside Recover.
* Low attacking stats leave it very passive and susceptible to being taken advantage of by Pokemon like Latios, Tapu Bulu, and Kartana.
* Poor Special Defense makes Quagsire an easy target for Pokemon like Greninja, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem-B.
* While Quagsire's physical bulk isn't bad, there are a variety of physical wallbreakers that can still overpower it, such as Choice Band Hoopa-U and Pheromosa.

[SET]
name: Physical Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Recover
move 4: Toxic / Curse
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is Quagsire's main STAB move, which has a helpful chance to burn.
* Earthquake is a secondary STAB move that hits Pokemon like Mega Charizard X and Heatran significantly harder than Scald.
* Recover is valuable for keeping Quagsire healthy all match to consistently wall the threats it needs to.
* Toxic wears down Pokemon that like to switch into Quagsire, like Latios, and helps to chip away at the things Quagsire walls.
* Curse can turn Quagsire into a bulky setup sweeper, allowing it to KO Pokemon like Clefable that do not mind Toxic.
* Encore is also an option for punishing Pokemon like Suicune and Mega Gyarados that may try and set up on it.

Set Details
========

* Unaware is the whole reason to use Quagsire, so it's the chosen ability.
* Maximum Defense and HP investment with a Relaxed nature is required to take on the many powerful physical boosting threats in OU.
* Leftovers is key to avoiding certain 2HKOs, such as that from Adamant Landorus-T's Earthquake.

Usage Tips
========

* Switch Quagsire into the Pokemon it walls, like Belly Drum Azumarill and Mega Charizard X.
* Scald and Toxic are good moves for punishing predicted switches, due to their ability to burn or badly poison the opponent's Pokemon, respectively.
* Recover should be used preemptively if you predict that the opponent will use a move on the current turn that will leave Quagsire in range of being KOed the following turn.
* Curse should be used either to force out a Pokemon like Calm Mind Magic Guard Clefable, or to attempt a sweep after all the opponent's stops to it have fainted.
* Due to its extremely passive nature, Quagsire functions best on stall teams.

Team Options
========

* Celesteela can wall many of the Grass-types and other special attackers that give Quagsire trouble.
* Chansey is a great partner to check special attackers, being the strongest special wall in OU, and it can also provide valuable support with Heal Bell.
* Specially defensive Unaware Clefable is a great partner, checking the majority of setup sweepers that Quagsire cannot deal with like Volcarona, Manaphy, Serperior, and Suicune.
* Mega Sableye can bother Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Alakazam, and Gengar while deflecting status and hazards so that Quagsire can enter the field healthy.
* Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss check Mega Gyarados, Keldeo, Choice Band Azumarill, Grass Knot Tapu Koko, Serperior, and Breloom for Quagsire, making them both excellent partners.
* Skarmory can make for a good partner, checking some of the physical attackers that can muscle past Quagsire, like Tapu Bulu and Mega Pinsir.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Due to Unaware, Quagsire makes for an interesting Swagger user, ignoring the stat boosts it gives to the opponent. Unfortunately, such a strategy is very unreliable and Quagsire would generally rather be using a different move.
* Yawn can force Pokemon that switch into Quagsire to switch out again the following turn or fall asleep.
* Water Absorb sets may appear to have some merit, but are completely outclassed by Gastrodon and as such are not worth using.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types**: Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Kartana, and Tangrowth can take anything Quagsire has to throw at them and proceed to easily KO it with their 4x super effective STAB moves.

**Special Attackers**: Special attackers like Latios, Greninja, and Alakazam do immense damage to Quagsire due to its poor special bulk.

**Sweepers with Mold Breaker**: Sweepers with Mold Breaker, such as Mega Gyarados, are able to ignore Unaware due to their ability and use it as setup bait.

**Powerful Physical Attackers**: As its bulk lies largely in its typing and ability and not in its middling Defense, Pokemon like Pheromosa, Choice Band Hoopa-U, Earth Plate Landorus-T, and Choice Band Azumarill can OHKO or 2HKO Quagsire.

**Status Users**: Burn or Toxic can easily cripple Quagsire, forcing it to Recover more often, limiting its longevity, and preventing it from avoiding various 2HKOs it would otherwise have due to the residual damage.

**Taunt Users**: Quagsire is very passive and typically relies on outlasting the threat it walls, meaning it is susceptible to Pokemon that use Taunt to prevent it from using Recover.

 

[Lemonade]

don't use wincon, you want (bulky setup) sweeper

wrote this elsewhere but still mostly relevant here

Why wincon / win condition and not sweeper? This isn't a battle commentary where you are explaining how to create a specific situation for Bisharp to sweep (ex weakening check to x% so Bisharp KOes them without taking damage and thus can survive another attack and KO that mon etc.). Basically what I'm getting at is calling a Pokemon itself a "win condition" is a misuse of the word "condition", and I know you guys are considering your position in the match or all the factors involved in actually winning with the given Pokemon, but newer players tend to pick up this terminology without considering "winning" (ie using it interchangeably with sweeper).

(Examples: Fire Emblem, FF Tactics victory conditions: defeat all enemies, defeat the leader, survive for x turns--all these are based on the state of the game. YGO: reducing opp to 0 LP, having Exodia in your hand, drawing any number of cards that enables you to get Magical Scientist and Catapult Turtle out on the first turn, etc. Basically any game that has defined "winning").

Edit: Here's something else I thought of about why you should care regarding new players and such. Since we're all competitive players, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say we would rather have good discussion. So let's say there's a game on stours and peeps are in the lobby. Someone says "What's player X's wincon?" From a rando, would you rather hear "Clefable because it has good defense and can set up Calm Mind" or "Clefable completely wrecks this team cuz all X needs to do is get Pokemon A down to 60% and it can't stop Clef anymore". Definitely the second right? It shows they have at least grasped the basics of each team, and this type of thinking gives them a tool to improve on their own--good for competitive environment.

Problem is right now new players are going to answer the first because that is the most prevalent way people use "wincon". Bad cuz it offers nothing to the battle discussion. ex from OU forum

it starts using Bulk Up to patch its low atk and makes it have a good amount of def and spD, being a dangerous win condition late game

A new player reading this will probably say "Talonflame cuz Bulk Up boosts its attack and defense" instead of "Talonflame cuz if it gets a Bulk Up vs Clef lategame, nothing can stop it", when talking about an actual match.

Ideally people start only using "wincon" in regards to battles, so that when anyone hears the term, they also hear how people assess both sides (teams and position) in regards to actually winning.

 

[montegom]

In Overview u should add:

x4 weakness to Grass Types moves.
Reliant recovery with Recover.
Can be crippled with Burn and Toxic easily.


In checks and counters u can add:

Status users: Pokemon with Toxic and Burn can easily crip Quag as I said.
Taunt users, which prevents Quag from using Recover and can give 2HKO to him.

In OO:
Haze to reset stats, but now Toxapex is better at that role, anyway u can add it.
Ice beam (?) good coverage move against Landorus, Gliscor...

 

[HailFall]

i dont really see a point in mentioning the grass weakness, on smogon you can just hover over the typing on smogon to see the weaknesses and resistances
guess it cant hurt to mention the reliable recovery part
im already mentioning status users in checks and counters

added both the things you mentioned in checks and counters

disagree with both haze and ice beam
haze is useless as your ability is unaware
ice beam hits like a wet paper bag, scald already hits gliscor and landorus for good damage, and you would be better off devoting this moveslot to something else

btw this is ready for qc

 

[HailFall]

bullet point to asterisk change done

 

[Jukain]

mention skarm in team options to beat the stronger physical attackers that overwhelm quag, venu for gyara keld and gk koko as well as general synergy

have some usage tip about curse (when to use it basically)

this is fine 1/3

 

[p2]

give examples of stuff it stops in the overview and go into detail about its flaws too

2/3

 

[HailFall]

all implemented

 

[PK Gaming]

* However, Quagsire has its flaws

I'd remove this since it's pretty unnecessary. On the other hand, you need to mention that even on the physical side, Quagsire struggles to check certain physical attackers like CB Hoopa, Pheromosa, etc since they just overpower it.

Mega Medicham is currently unavailable so you'll have to remove it from checks and counters. Definitely add CB Hoopa, Pheromosa and offensive Landorus-T here though.

In the Usage Tips section mention that Quagsire functions best on Stall teams.

3/3

 

[HailFall]

Mega Medicham is currently unavailable

whoops, totally blanked on that one *_*

implemented, ready for gp

 

[Calm Pokemaster]

Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

* Unaware is Quagsire's main selling point, allowing it to take on the majority of OU's physical setup sweepers such as Bisharp, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Scizor.
* Quagsire has decent physical bulk with a good typing alongside Recover. (add period)
* Low Attack and Special Attack attacking stats leave it very passive and susceptible to being taken advantage of by Pokemon like Latios, Tapu Bulu, and Kartana.
* Poor Special Defense makes Quagsire an easy target for Pokemon like Greninja, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem-B. (add period)
* While Quagsire's physical bulk isn't bad, there are a variety of physical wallbreakers that can still overpower it, (add comma) such as Choice Band Hoopa-U and Pheromosa.

[SET]
name: Physical Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Recover
move 4: Toxic / Curse
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is Quagsire's main STAB move, which has a helpful chance to burn.
* Earthquake is a secondary STAB move which that hits Pokemon like Mega Charizard X and Heatran significantly harder than Scald.
* Recover is valuable for keeping Quagsire healthy all match to consistently wall the things threats it needs to.
* Toxic wears down Pokemon that like to switch into Quagsire, (add comma) like Latios, and helps to chip away at the things Quagsire walls.
* Curse can turn Quagsire into a bulky setup sweeper, and is especially useful to be able to allowing it to KO Pokemon like Clefable that do not mind Toxic.
* Encore is valuable also an option for punishing Pokemon like Suicune and Mega Gyarados that may try and set up on it.

Set Details
========

* Unaware is the whole reason to use Quagsire, so it's the chosen ability.
* Maximum Defense and HP investment with a Relaxed nature is required to take on the many powerful physical boosting threats in OU.
* Leftovers is key to avoiding certain 2HKOs, such as that of from Adamant Landorus-T's Earthquake.

Usage Tips
========

* Switch Quagsire into the Pokemon it walls, (add comma) like Belly Drum Azumarill and Mega Charizard X.
* Scald or and Toxic is are good moves for punishing predicted switches, due to their ability to burn or badly poison the opponent's Pokemon, respectively.
* Recover should be used preemptively if you predict that the opponent will use a move this on the current turn that will leave you Quagsire in range of being KOed the following turn.
* Curse should be used either to force out a Pokemon like Calm Mind Magic Guard Clefable, or to attempt a sweep after all the opponent's stops to it have fainted.
* Due to its extremely passive nature, Quagsire functions best on stall teams.

Team Options
========

* Celesteela can wall many of the Grass-types and other special attackers that give Quagsire trouble.
* Chansey is a great partner to check special attackers, as being the strongest special wall in OU, and it can also provide valuable support with Heal Bell.
* Specially defensive Unaware Clefable is a great partner, checking the majority of setup sweepers that Quagsire cannot deal with, like Volcarona, Manaphy, Serperior, and Suicune.
* Mega Sableye can bother Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Alakazam, and Gengar while deflecting status and hazards so that Quagsire can enter the field healthy.
* Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss check Mega Gyarados, Keldeo, Choice Band Azumarill, Grass Knot Tapu Koko, Serperior, and Breloom for Quagsire, (add comma) making them both excellent partners.
* Skarmory can make for a good partner, checking some of the physical attackers that can muscle past Quagsire, (add comma) like Tapu Bulu and Mega Pinsir.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Due to Unaware, Quagsire makes for an interesting Swagger user, ignoring the stat boosts it gives to the opponent. Unfortunately, (add comma) such a strategy is very inconsistent unreliable, and Quagsire would generally rather be using a different move.
* Yawn can force Pokemon that switch into Quagsire to switch out again the following turn or fall asleep.
* Water Absorb sets may appear to have some merit, but are completely outclassed by Gastrodon and as such are not worth using.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types**: Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Kartana, and Tangrowth can take anything Quagsire has to throw at them and proceed to easily KO it with their 4x super effective STAB moves.

**Special Attackers**: Special attackers like Latios, Greninja, and Alakazam do immense damage to Quagsire due to its poor special bulk.

**Sweepers with Mold Breaker**: Sweepers with Mold Breaker, such as Mega Gyarados, are able to ignore Unaware due to their ability and use it as setup bait.

**Powerful Physical Attackers (capitalization)**: As its bulk lies largely in its typing and ability and not in its middling Defense, Pokemon like Pheromosa, Choice Band Hoopa-U, Earth Plate Landorus-T, and Choice Band Azumarill can OHKO or 2HKO Quagsire due to its middling Defense.

**Status Users**: Burn or Toxic can easily cripple Quagsire, forcing it to Recover more often, limiting its longevity, and preventing it from avoiding various 2HKOs it would otherwise have due to the residual damage.

**Taunt Users**: Quagsire is very passive and typically relies on outlasting the thing threat it walls, meaning it is susceptible to Pokemon that use Taunt to prevent it from using Recover.

GP 1 / 1

 

[HailFall]

implemented. this is done

 

[Hootie]

uploaded