Rain Dance VGC 2010

Rain Dance Team VGC 2010

Hi all! This is a first for me making a RMT topic. I've been pondering on a team for my little brother, and I guess, the next best thing I can come up with is Rain Dance. The first VGC is this week, and guess, who's going to it. So, help would be much appreciated.

Changes will be made in bold.

At a Glance:
Kyogre.gif
Ludicolo.gif
Palkia.png
Azelf.png





Leads:
kyogre.png

Kyogre @ Wacan Berry
Nature: Modest/Timid (+SpA,-Atk)/(+Spe/-Atk)
Ability: Drizzle
EVs:6 Hp/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Protect/Water Spout

A must in a Rain Dance team. Drizzle to summon the rain and Wacan Berry to reduce super effective Electric moves. Spam surfing can be paired up with Ludicolo. Plus a STAB and rain deals major damage. Ice Beam for Dragons and other such. Thunder for opposing Kyogre. Water Spout can deal a ton of damage, but Protect, will allow to scout.

ludicolo.png

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
Ability: Swift Swim/Rain Dish
EVs:60 Hp/252 SpA/196 Spe
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Energy Ball
-Protect/Fake Out
A Grass and Water type to help against match ups. Swift Swim to double speed, but Rain Dish, would be able to heal damage from Life Orb.Surf like said above, STAB, rain, spam. Ice Beam is for the same thing, and possibly gaining, up on things. Grass Knot, to heavy Pokemon, like Kyogre. Energy Ball, is a sure thing though. Protect is my best friend in VGCs.Fake Out, for another stall turn.
The Back Up:
Palkia.png

Palkia @ Haban Berry/Choice
Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
EVs:6 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Spacial Rein
-Thunder
-Protect/Fire Blast
In the back Palkia and Azelf. Berry to dummy down it's only weakness, while Choice can, help do major damage. Possibly up again, for Spam Surf. Hydro Pump does well in rain. Spacial Rein, over pluse, cause it's better and it's Palkia's signature move. Thunder like above, Fire Blast would be for the annoyers though. Shedinja and Hail teams. Protect saves all.

azelf.png

Azelf @Leftovers/Expert Belt/Choice
Nature: Timid(+Spe,-Atk)
EVs:4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Psychic
-Flamethrower
-Grass Knot
-U-Turn/Trick/Taunt
Last Pokemon in team. Leftovers for healing,Belt for a little boost, and Choice, if it's needed. Psychic, a great STAB attack. Get's to Fighting and Poison. Flamethrower is like Fire Blast, to get rid of Ice and Shedinja. Grass Knot for a possible last minute tank Pokemon they happen to have. U-Turn for the many other Psychics, Dark and Grass. Trick is only there, if I end up running Choice, which, can later game screw with my opponent.A now possible lead. Taunting an opponent, can cause a devastating aftermath.After, taunting, and not letting them be able to set up, the sweeping, can then take place.

Might just take out Azelf for Metagross, and have Azelf in the back, in case I need item.

Metagross@Choice
Nature: Adamant (+Atk,-SpA)/Brave(+Atk,-Spe)
EVs: 252 HP/236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
-Earthquake
-Bullet Punch
-Explosion
-Meteor Mash

Metagross can and probably will take over Azelf's spot in this team, as the fact that it is much more bulkier and something on my team can start pulling off physical attacks. Earthquake is always fun, as it takes out, some of the threats against this team. Bullet Punch is handy for quick attack, taking out Gengar and such. Meteor Mash, for a great STAB and does why neutral damage. Then the big boom, Explosion, where is needed and I can protect, and take down the last few Pokemon of my opponents team.


In Depth: A bit long, can skip over.
Kyogre-This is clearly a must in a Rain Dance team. Without it there would be no rain to set up and Ludicolo's Swift Swim, would be no use. Starting with a Kyogre and Ludicolo lead, to set up Drizzle and make Ludicolo beastly fast. The natures are to me still pondering about. I have no idea weather Modest is the way to go, or Timid to beat the slow. A decision on that will help wonders. The item, helps from Super Effective Thunder and possibly Discharge, if they seem to occur. Max out the EVs in SpA and Spe is also needed. In fact that Kyogre would need to quickly take out an opposing opponent that is a possible threat with being faster and strong at that. Not sure, if the move Surf also has it's Base reduced, but a STAB in the rain Surf does deal major damage indeed. And with Ludicolo, if necessary, spam surfing will be a way to go, barely doing any damage to the team, but possibly doing major damage to their team. Dragons are a need in any tournament, and when there are Dragons, they must be countered, with one of only 2 weaknesses. Which is where Ice Beam comes into play. Ice Beam can surely and quickly take out a Dragon Pokemon. It is also great against one of Kyorge's weakness, Grass Pokemon. To include the flying Pokemon along with others, Ice Beam, hits a large number of Pokemon, that are a sure thing to find at the VGCs. And also a freeze from time to time, wouldn't hurt, the team of course. Thunder is obvious. 100% Accuracy in the rain. And I hear 30% to break Protect? Oh yeah. It takes out other Kyogre and along the way as well as being a more powerful move than Ice Beam, against Flying Pokemon anyway. It's a very nice choice to add to the team. So, Flying Pokemon need to watch out. About the break on Protect, does it work? If it does in fact, than even better. Most teams in Double Battles now, run Protect for many reasons, Explode, Earthquake, to scout, or just plain out stall. And Breaking it, would be one amazing and two which could win the game. Speaking of Protect, Protect is on here, for protection. It could also be used to,as I said before, scout and protect from possible Thunder, Fake Out, and as such. Even though, I can't choose between that and the oh so powerful Water Spout. Water Spout does more damage than Surf and don't forget the added STAB and boost from rain, making it a Judgment when used. But only does a lot when the Health is high. Still indeed, first move with this in the game takes out most. Again, Kyogre is badly needed. And who wouldn't use it if they were happening to run Rain Dance? With it's powerful arsenal of attacks, it can take on most Pokemon, if not all. As well as take a couple of hits before the Knock Out.

Ludicolo-Ludicolo, may not be the best choice, I don't know, but with it's duel typing, it serves as a very strong Pokemon on this team. Holding a Life Orb is does 30% more damage, it serves more purpose than anything else, that I could of thought of. The next thing to it, that came across my mind was a Choice, but I don't think I'd be needing any of that, now. Being stuck in one move is a pain. And Ludicolo, wouldn't like it. Modest to boost it's high Special Attack. This is where I start thinking. If I should have Swift Swim or Rain Dish. Rain Dish of course would make up for the lost Health received from Life Orb, and then that's all, I could think of it really doing. Though, healing every turn, wouldn't be so bad. But I prefer Swift Swim, a bit more. Swift Swim, doubles the speed of a Pokemon when in rain, so it would be a perfect choice to be. It out runs everything, besides other Swift Swimming Pokemon, but you know what I mean. Ludicolo and Kyogre together move pretty fast and can take down many Pokemon with rain as a factor. Without the rain though, then Ludicolo, isn't all it could of been, but I'll try and ignore that. I'm pretty sure that it needs to out run other Pokemon, so there Spe EVs and in case no rain were to happen. It also needs to take a hit, while kicking butt, and the rest respectively go there. Surf as I already explained, works wonders in the rain. Both having the boost from the rain, having that STAB and hitting well, every Pokemon on the field... But Kyogre can clearly take the hit. Along with Vice-Versa, if needed. While they could even spam Surf for major damage, times two. Ice Beam has already been explained, but doesn't hurt to team up on stuff, just in case. Seeing if it could be a bulking Grass Pokemon.Or just a Dragon Pokemon that needs to faint badly, Ice Beam adds a little something to the team. Energy Ball or Grass Knot, I do not know. Energy Ball does a guaranteed something and also a chance to lower the opponents Special Defense. Also, the STAB with it is nice. Grass Knot on the other hand, is possible of doing way more damage, and is up with the teams. Heavy Pokemon like Kyogre and Groudon and such, will take major damage. But the thing is, you never know what you will actually face. So it's left in the dark for me. But, I'm pretty sure, Grass Knot will be the majority of move that needs to be used, mostly because of the heavy Pokemon. Along with STAB with Grass Knot, it actually doesn't do too bad.Lastly, Focus Punch, is the only Physical move the team has, well, I think... And would hate to die, by a Blissey. You know how they are. So, Focus Punch would be great against a Blissey. It can also take on many other stuff, Weavile, Dialga, and much more. But, it's just so the team doesn't get killed solely on Blissey... Or any other thing that might cause problems.

Palkia-In the back we first have Palkia, which fills up my last spot for the use of Restricted Pokemon. It's as strong as Kyogre and it's also a Water type, which is another must on the team. With it also having a duel typing of Dragon and Water, it makes the team all the better. Dummying it down to only one weakness. Dragon. And the fact that it's a Pokemon that controls Space, I couldn't pass it up. Haban Berry is there, to half down, it's only weakness Dragon. Which is pretty nice, if I say so myself. And with the many Dragon Pokemon that will be used, come on. Why not right. On the other hand Choice Specs/Scarf, would be amazing. A raise by 50% in it's Speed or Special Attack. It's almost unstoppable, with one little thing... It can only use one move! This later might come back to haunt Palkia, and can't decide, what should be done about it. In one hand, Haban Berry can save Palkia from fainting, but on the other, Palkia could go ahead and take out a lot of Pokemon, which the Choice Specs. If it was the Scarf instead, then it out speeds a lot of other Pokemon, including, opposing Palkias. Then will clearly spam Draco Meteor around. Modest is like the others for a sure take out. Plus, the only Palkia I was able to get my hands on. Again the EVs are the same as the others, a quick kill and one for sure is needed. Surf does its usual thing. Plus STAB and boost rain, makes it beast. And a Palkia on a surfboard, now that would be a sight to see. A move that could take it's place is Hydro Pump, and though good. Not sure on how it would do. In rain it sure does a lot, but PP isn't as much, and may cause problems later on. But it's almost like a Water Spout for Kyogre, but for Palkia. The next move Spacial Rein is another must. It's Palkia signature move and unlike Roar of Time, it doesn't kill you over, by recharging. Plus, you could take down, or do serious damage, with the move. Like said many Dragon Pokemon will show their faces at the tournament, and where there are dragons counters will come. So, Spacial Rein, where I won't lose SpA. Thunder is for the back up Kyogre that might show up around and for anything else that it can take down. And again with rain. 100% accuracy with Thunder and the whole Protect thing. But besides the fact that Kyogre has already gotten it, it's not needed as much. But can still come as a viable attack. Fire Blast could take the place of Thunder. One move that will take on those annoying Abomasnows and if any Shedinjas. Though, doesn't work in rain, but if the opponent ever chooses to Sunny Day, they are always free to do so, helping the best of the best become more... best... And finally Draco Meteor. A most powerful move of the rest of the Dragon type moves and it kills everything, is what I'm going for. STAB and a possible Choice, yeah, they are done. Using Draco Meteor more than once, don't be a problem for Palkia. With a high SpA, it can take it.

Azelf-Finally Azelf, the last Pokemon to be shown in the team. Just, I do have mixed emotions about this Pokemon. If there can be better, please suggest it. I don't think that this Azelf, will do too well. But still for the time being, I'll stay with it. Being the best out of the three pixies,IMO, can run down, and be brought up as a Revenge Sweeper, if it ever comes to it. Which, I don't want. To start off, Leftovers a great item to heal with. Only a little bit, but hey, at least it something.Expert Belt is there for the maybe +20% in attacks. Depending on if the attack is Super Effective or not. Which is the problem. And a possible choice, which in a late game, and be used with Trick.Timid, for more speed. The EVs are like the others, quick kill while making sure the kill is a kill. Psychic, first will do a reasonable amount of damage, if not a lot. And the STAB helps as well. If it were to face up against late game Machamp and as such, for sure, it would be taken down, quickly. And you quickly poison the poison, so it's a easy kill of Poison Pokemon with Psychic. Flamethrower is like Palkia's Fire Blast. It must Kill Shedinja! and Abomasnow, but generally can do good damage as well, but I would prefer a Psychic over it. Grass Knot again. Some or most tank Pokemon come out last, so it's good to save this move back here as well. And will be able to kill Kyogres and Groudons in case the happen to swap out. U-Turn for the possibility of the mainly Psychic types. Like Mewtwo and such. Which does a good amount of damage to, if not OHKOing it. Also for other annoying Pokemon like the Latis and other Azelfs. Trick is there in case I happen to run Choice, and for a late game, I'm hoping that it will screw the opponent over badly.

Hey, thanks for reading, it's very long, sorry to say. But all comments are appreciated. Do anything you find a must to the team, Please and Thank Yous.

And again, if it was missed. This will be my little brother's team. Meaning that it will be for the Juniors, but please, don't let the fact that it's for the Juniors make you not rate it. Even though they game they play might not be as competitive, some of them can surely raise above the rest. So again I give thanks that you read and rated.
 
You should consider leading with your Azelf instead of Ludicolo. Just like in Standard play Taunt will hinder your opponent from setting up on you. Nobody wants to get beat by Dark Void or Perish song + Mr. Mime or something whack like that
 
Taunt on Azelf. Perfect. Okay, I'll think about it.

And do people have something against Rain Dance teams? Only a few replies the last 20 hours... or somewhat...
 
Taunt on Azelf. Perfect. Okay, I'll think about it.

And do people have something against Rain Dance teams? Only a few replies the last 20 hours... or somewhat...

Rain Dance teams have been done over and over again. They've lost their effectiveness somewhat because people prepare for them.
 
Well, I can see your point. But I don't think much Juniors will be prepared for much of anything to tell the truth. This is a team for my younger brother, and just want to make it a bit better. But thanks you guys.
 
get rid of ludicolo's focus punch for fake out and go with grass knot. palkia should know thunder protect spatial rend and something else. think of having zapdos as a back up. also metagross would not be bad. azelf should not be there because it is easy to kill
 
While it is a theme that's been used by the majority of the players, and not to mention just how much people are prepared against them, I will say that it is still imho the most effective/reliable style/theme. Kyogre+Palkia combo is pretty much THE standard (maybe with ludicolor there as well). I would, however, suggest that you have protect over draco meteor for Palkia.
 
if this is for juniors, and your brother learns how to use it well, he should dominate.

haban for palkia.
swift swim on ludicolo if its meant to be a sweeper, if you want a bulkier set, then dish.
expert belt on azelf.
 
Hey, thanks guys. I made the changes, and I'll probably go with them. But, can't seem to find a good set for Metagross, I'm not sure on the Defense Metagross, or the Full out Attacker. I'm going to keep somethings in the back like Azelf and Zapdos then.

Bloo thanks, I've decided to take Azelf out, for Meta, if it's more necessary.

ugh, Still need a final answer on Timid/Modest Kyogre...
 
here is my opinion on best rain dance team

starter kyogre

other starter infernape

backup giritina

other backup metagross

also you should use it so you win
 
Well, I'm not using it, my little brother is.

And thanks, but I'll stick with what I have already planned. Cause, there is no way, I can get a good Giratina set in time. But thanks anyway.

I might do it if he makes Nationals.
 
imo, the "best" rain team isn't something with gira but with palkia as the backup
gira has been a fantastic "wtf" pokemon lately but that's it
the only reason infamous kyogre+palkia combo has been dwelling is mainly because EVERYONE has been preparing against it
 
I would replace Ludicolo with Kabutops because you have no physical attackers. Also use Azelf as your lead because taunt can really screw up opposing leads and if you put Thunder in it you can counter other rain dance teams.
 
I'm still better than you. also kabutops is not as good as ludicolo.

though the latter part of that statement is valid... someones getting a bit cocky lol, i respect you for coming in 3rd place at worlds in juniors but doesn't mean you can necessarily bash other users just for because of it, trust me seniors is a far more complex then the juniors meta and you're gonna have to put a hell of a lot more if you want to even come close to making it to worlds again let alone even placing...
 
Actually you don't know that
I've seen some Japanese and Korean Juniors and personally they were terrible.
Period.
I wouldn't mind battling you but right now. Also, I DOUBT I seriously doubt you can even scratch pretty much any of the skarmblissers. LOL at the kid
crymoar

though the latter part of that statement is valid... someones getting a bit cocky lol, i respect you for coming in 3rd place at worlds in juniors but doesn't mean you can necessarily bash other users just for because of it, trust me seniors is a far more complex then the juniors meta and you're gonna have to put a hell of a lot more if you want to even come close to making it to worlds again let alone even placing...

not to mention juniors pertty much all suck(ed)
and i doubt he's as nearly as good as he thinks he is
beoongshin

edit: if you EVER manage to consecutively (or at least score memorable wins against some of the decent skarmblissers, say...drug_duck, vash, pbb), i will believe you about your ability. until then, you're just a kid who placed in JUNIORS. anyways, i'm done with this "argument". can't believe i was bashed by a kid who came out of nowhere and started bashing others (cuz of his score in the juniors) with the opening statement of "I'm better than you".
 
Hey, thanks for the help guys. I was planning with a Metagross, as my physical attacker. Azelf, with taunt, I've thought about, but again, this is for Junoirs... I kinda don't see a point. But tell me otherwise, and I could think about it.

Ludicolo has had enough, I would think.
 
If the Kyogre was Scarfed, modest would be a decent nature but since it ain't, go for Timid. It won't get any important kills with a modest nature and timid might save your ass if your brother/sister faces another Kyogre.

Definitely put Metagross over Azelf. You'd want some insurance against (poorly built) TR teams so that a Brave 0 Speed Metagross can explode against TR sweepers (Snorlax, Abomasnow, Base 90 Ubers w/o Iron Ball) as a kind of a last ditch attempt to take them out, then out-stall TR.

--

Also kamz, copying a Japanese Regional Final winner team isn't exactly champion's work nor is this a "Rain Dance team" just because there's a random Kyogre in it. And just to let you know, I can tell from a look on people's faces if they are sincere and modest winner types or not and I was right with you being not so sincere and modest. That's why I cheered for Jeremy at Worlds. ;)

i respect you for coming in 3rd place at worlds in juniors but it doesn't mean you can necessarily bash other users just for because of it, trust me seniors is a far more complex meta then the juniors meta and you're gonna have to put a hell of a lot more into it if you want to even come close to making it to worlds again, let alone even placing...
 
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