Yeah, from what I've used of it, Latias feels like the weakest link in the team. It really doesn't do terribly much unfortunately. I'll see if I can find a suitable replacement.
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Rain.
- Thread starter Dezza Laa
- Start date
I don't know... I actually find Latias possibly the easiest to set up and end the game for me. I got Latias bulking up on the special spectrum and Toxicroak on the physical one. I rather like him. The weak link for me, and the poisition that needs patching if any of them, has to be Tornadus.
What about Rain Abuser Dragonite as a replacement for Tornadus?
His 4x weakness to Ice isn't much fun but considering how frail I found Tornadus to be I can't see it being much of a difference.
This is the set (taken from the OU Analyses forum):
Rain Abuser
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Thunder / Dragon Pulse
move 3: Brick Break / Dragon Tail
move 4: Roost
ability: Multi Scale
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
His 4x weakness to Ice isn't much fun but considering how frail I found Tornadus to be I can't see it being much of a difference.
This is the set (taken from the OU Analyses forum):
Rain Abuser
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Thunder / Dragon Pulse
move 3: Brick Break / Dragon Tail
move 4: Roost
ability: Multi Scale
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Hey buddy,
Yeah I'm currently testing out a few things in this spot. Right now I am testing:
1. CS Tornadus
2. NP Thundurus
3. CS DNite
They all work well in their own separate way, but none as good as Shaymin-S. :S
Upon the trillion times I've faced this exact team, I've noticed that it does NOT like facing specially defensive Jirachi with a means of paralysis (especially Thunder). Therefore, a ground type that is able to absorb electric attacks, like the Mamoswine that was previously on the team, would be beneficial from a synergy perspective (Mamo also helps you deal with DD Mence/Nite!). Otherwise, it's a great team and the fact that so many people are using it is definitely a good sign!
Hi, obviously you have a great team but one suggestion I had was to change Latia's moveset, it doesn't really do much from my experiance. I suggest a set like this:
Latias @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 Hp/252 Satk/252 Spd (Max hp works to)
Timid
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
I find surf to be much more useful than recover since it gets a rain boosted surf to use against skarm and scizor. It also helps against tar if it switches in while you have a sub. Great team overall and great job
Latias @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 Hp/252 Satk/252 Spd (Max hp works to)
Timid
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
I find surf to be much more useful than recover since it gets a rain boosted surf to use against skarm and scizor. It also helps against tar if it switches in while you have a sub. Great team overall and great job
Hey Dezza. First off, I wanna say that your teams are insanely good. Alright, anyway.
I'm just wondering what your team does against one of the most underappreciated sets of this generation: Sub Disable Gengar.
I'm probably about to answer my own question, but the only chance I see you having is by trying to outstall with Politoed or Scizor. The disable takes away Latias's only move, the only moves Rotom and Tornadus can use period because of choice, and the only move Toxicroak has that can hit ghost types...and then Gengar can proceed to slaughter all of them. I'm not sure what the calculations would be for Politoed against Shadow Ball or Scizor against Focus Blast, but they're probably 2 or 3-kos, and Toed and Scizor won't be able to hit back if Scald and Bullet Punch get Disabled.
Just a thought I suppose. Gengar is the only threat I can even think of at the moment though, so that's saying something.
I'm just wondering what your team does against one of the most underappreciated sets of this generation: Sub Disable Gengar.
I'm probably about to answer my own question, but the only chance I see you having is by trying to outstall with Politoed or Scizor. The disable takes away Latias's only move, the only moves Rotom and Tornadus can use period because of choice, and the only move Toxicroak has that can hit ghost types...and then Gengar can proceed to slaughter all of them. I'm not sure what the calculations would be for Politoed against Shadow Ball or Scizor against Focus Blast, but they're probably 2 or 3-kos, and Toed and Scizor won't be able to hit back if Scald and Bullet Punch get Disabled.
Just a thought I suppose. Gengar is the only threat I can even think of at the moment though, so that's saying something.
Hey Dezza Laa, this team seems pretty solid, but has it's issues (as do all teams).
SkarmBliss and Specially Defensive Jirachi can put your team to a complete halt. Toxicroak has to hope he does not get paraflinched to death by Jirachi and your team and proceed to sweep through your team bar a lucky burn by Politoed. With SkarmBliss, once Rotom-W tricks his specs onto the wrong target it's a downhill battle, as each member of your team is walled by either Skarmory or Blissey (with the exclusion of Politoed, who can easily be PP stalled or walled by Jellicent, another common member of stall).
I recommend a Mixed Dragonite over Tornadus:
Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Mild / Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor / Hurricane
- Earthquake
- Thunder
- Superpower
This Dragonite can rip through SkarmBliss like nothing. Earthquake is for Jirachi, though it can be dropped if you feel like Jirachi is not a problem.
SkarmBliss and Specially Defensive Jirachi can put your team to a complete halt. Toxicroak has to hope he does not get paraflinched to death by Jirachi and your team and proceed to sweep through your team bar a lucky burn by Politoed. With SkarmBliss, once Rotom-W tricks his specs onto the wrong target it's a downhill battle, as each member of your team is walled by either Skarmory or Blissey (with the exclusion of Politoed, who can easily be PP stalled or walled by Jellicent, another common member of stall).
I recommend a Mixed Dragonite over Tornadus:
Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Mild / Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor / Hurricane
- Earthquake
- Thunder
- Superpower
This Dragonite can rip through SkarmBliss like nothing. Earthquake is for Jirachi, though it can be dropped if you feel like Jirachi is not a problem.
Actually NoJohns, I've found those exacct issues to be infuriating with Sandstall being equally dangerous (it is very prevalent at the top of the ladder).
To fix those issues I had a SubSD Terakion suggested to me by Meru (Adamant LO) which has worked very well so far. The main thing he pointed out was the ability to ko any Gliscor under 90% after an SD as well as destroying most sand stall members and SkarmBliss.
The only issue I've found so far is dealing with lead Rotom-W and Thunderus as without mamoswine I lack the free switch in the Elec immunity provides.
To fix those issues I had a SubSD Terakion suggested to me by Meru (Adamant LO) which has worked very well so far. The main thing he pointed out was the ability to ko any Gliscor under 90% after an SD as well as destroying most sand stall members and SkarmBliss.
The only issue I've found so far is dealing with lead Rotom-W and Thunderus as without mamoswine I lack the free switch in the Elec immunity provides.
I've been running a variant of this team on the ladder with rank instead of latias, and it's been doing wonders. it's seriously a high quality team with great synergy.
I've considered switching out any of the members, especially after feeling guilty because my team is so similar to yours, but each time i decided against it simply because there's not much to improve. it's a really solid team.
I've considered switching out any of the members, especially after feeling guilty because my team is so similar to yours, but each time i decided against it simply because there's not much to improve. it's a really solid team.
Hey guys,
Too many suggestions to multi quote so I'll just address them all as a bunch.
Firstly is the threat of SkarmBliss + SDef Jirachi. I have had some problems in the past getting past them, especially the latter. I like the sound of running that MixNite that NoJohns suggested. However the Life Orb recoil is unappealing. I'll maybe try with an Expert Belt or something?
Choice Scarf Garchomp needs a second try I reckon. He offers the same great electric immunity, which I have come to realise is lacking on this team now, having to rely on Latias to take it and hope it doesn't get paralysed. Either way I have to replace Tornadus with something that is immune to electric moves.
SubSD Terrakion sound cool, especially the fact that it can do 90% to Gliscor at +2. However with all the subbing and the Life Orb recoil, I don't see it doing that much TBH.
I know SubDisable Gengar is annoying, hence why it is under my threat list. I do know that a lot of my Pokemon are really mono-attackers, or only have one move to rely on. However it doesn't really harm me as such so it isn't really a threat IMO.
Sorry if I missed anyone, been rather sick recently...
Too many suggestions to multi quote so I'll just address them all as a bunch.
Firstly is the threat of SkarmBliss + SDef Jirachi. I have had some problems in the past getting past them, especially the latter. I like the sound of running that MixNite that NoJohns suggested. However the Life Orb recoil is unappealing. I'll maybe try with an Expert Belt or something?
Choice Scarf Garchomp needs a second try I reckon. He offers the same great electric immunity, which I have come to realise is lacking on this team now, having to rely on Latias to take it and hope it doesn't get paralysed. Either way I have to replace Tornadus with something that is immune to electric moves.
SubSD Terrakion sound cool, especially the fact that it can do 90% to Gliscor at +2. However with all the subbing and the Life Orb recoil, I don't see it doing that much TBH.
I know SubDisable Gengar is annoying, hence why it is under my threat list. I do know that a lot of my Pokemon are really mono-attackers, or only have one move to rely on. However it doesn't really harm me as such so it isn't really a threat IMO.
Sorry if I missed anyone, been rather sick recently...
If you want a ground type that can check both SkarmBliss and Jirachi, Gliscor is probably the way to go:
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
Gliscor gives you a good physical mon, and is a way better fighting resist than Latias or Toxicroak.
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
Gliscor gives you a good physical mon, and is a way better fighting resist than Latias or Toxicroak.