Rampardos Team: Stuck at ~70% win rate

[Pocket]

This is the current version of the Trick Room + Rampardos Team that I posted at least half a year ago. I am liking the way it fares in battles, but it is still not solid and can sometimes be shut down. Maybe it's just my sub-par decision-making during battles that costs me the loss, but I present you this team in hopes of making this a less gimicky and a more solid, consistent team.

(M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP/184 Def/76 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Avalanche
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall / Aqua Tail

Takes hits and dish hits. Mainly for Heracross, Heatran, Lucario, and Metagross. It's awesome defense allows it to absorb many hits for the team. Avalanche is a sweet move to retaliate against Dragons. Taunt halts set-up and recovery moves, forcing the opponent to attack, and Gyarados oftentimes score the kill, or I could just switch.
I used to have Aqua Tail to hit Lucario hard, but seeing how I haven't seen one in awhile, I'm abusing Waterfall's Flinch for now. Ironically, its unexpected bulk frequently allows it to bring down a good portion of the team, despite the lack of DD, LO, and Atk EVs.

@ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Recover
- Trick Room
- Leaf Storm

Electric resist and Water, Fighting, & Ground counter, namely Breloom, Machamp, Swampert, Vaporeon, Donphan, Hippowdon, Gyarados, and Lucario. Leaf Storm's special fall sucks, but hitting 140 against lighter pokemon like Vaporeon and Starmie is useful, and it still dents Metagross decently. Due to Heat Wave and Signal Beam, Electrics are much harder to wall, but hopefully Heatran or Trick Room can help bring them down.
With its great defensive typing, Celebi is a reliable TRer, and it can use the reversal of priority to its own advantage, too.

(F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Classic / Standard CeleTran that complements each other nicely. Here I decided to go Timid and HP Electric to deal with + 1 DD Gyarados if I have to. This thing can sweep well for the team, although Blissey and Water Pokemon must be removed, the latter Celebi and Heracross is good at.

(F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 32 HP/252 Atk/224 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Facade
- Sleep Talk

Flame Orb Heracross =d. At first it had Swords Dance, which would help me against stuff like Stockpile Hippowdon, but I needed something to absorb sleep, and Heracross does it well. Basically here to break annoying Ground Walls and other Walls (Blissey, Cresselia, Spiritomb, Suicune, Porygon2, sometimes Bronzong / Forretress) that hinder my other offenses. Taking out Tyranitar is a plus, too. Some of the toughest matches I experience is when I lose Heracross prematurely while my opponent has its primary defensive monsters still intact.

(M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk/36 Spd/220 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm

The theme of the team; to abuse Rampardos' insane power with TR. I had Head Smash over Hammer Arm to ensure secure kills, but the recoil literally killed Ram. Even though it saddens me to not to be able to spam Head Smash, Rampardos is plentifully deadly.
Hammer Arm is mainly for Tyranitar, Snorlax, Blissey, and Porygon2. Ice Beam to 2HKO Donphan / Hippowdon and shoot down Gliscor / Salamence / Flygon out of the air.

@ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/52 Atk/204 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

I have plenty of physical Defense through Gyarados and Celebi, so I focused on Bronzong's SpDef, especially because Gengar used to give me huge trouble.
It's mainly a set-upper of SR and TR. Ideally I would use this when the opponent has only 3 or 4 remaining Pokemon; Trick Room, Explode to clear the field and for a free switch-in to Rampardos, which hopefully would use the remaining three turns to bring down the rest of the foe's line up.
But otherwise, Explosion is good to just deal damage to annoying tanks / walls that are just not worth the rest of the team's energy.

So there's the team. The main strategy is to bring down Grounds, Waters, Bullet Punchers, and slower Pokemon before setting up TR and allow Rampardos to rampage. Ideally, the opponent would only have 3 Pokemon left when the TRer is sacrified for Rampardos' sweep; Bronzong's Explosion and the decent amount of other offenses allow this to happen most of the times. At good times, I would be able to take control of the game and utilize TR to great effects, but sometimes I am forced in the defensive and get overwhelmed quickly by tanks or heavy offense. This is the type of team that is weak to attrition and usually end battles quickly, albeit not always in my favor.

Please keep one thing in mind: the team must have atleast two Pokemon that can summon Trick Room. Just like Rain Dance teams, multiple environment-altering Pokemon would increase the exposure to Trick Room, which usually benefits me. I also don't want Rampardos to end up as dead weight when one of my TRer inevitably dies prematurely.

Any advice and suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[mikmenis]

Sleep talk + flame orb on heracross? having that orb activated heracross already is able to absorb sleepattacks... also I suggest leading with bronsong. I may give you early advantage with SR + TR + explosion -> Rampardos on the field. might cause some devostating damage berofe your opponent can do a thing. Just be aware about those BB scizor those seem to be everywhere

 

[AceDragon619]

Heracross shouldn't be using sleep talk. Its flame orb will give it Burn status, meaning it won't be sleeping. Replace it with Swords dance to boost your attack even higher, or Protect to ensure you get your burn before you get hurt

 

[husk]

Before the burn orb activates he uses it to absorb sleep...he still wants guts to activate without his opponent's help (or when sleep ends) and therefore his item of choice: burn orb.

Nice team Pocket.

I'm curious as to what you do vs defensive heatran. They're usually fairly slow which is usually east to beat but in TR that's more dangerous as your tran/hera can not come in to revenge kill. Celebi/Bronzong are a free switch-ins for it. Gyara can be burned with wisp and I believe rampardos dies to an EP?

This problem is extented to specs and scarf heatran as well but you can outpredict those possibly so it's ok. A slow heatran with SR support but without wisp is also problematic as even if it doesn't have HP electric or anything specific to hit gyara, gyara is going down after two switch -ins...not to mention it'll probably have taken some damage from leading.

To fix this...and have a method through which you can reliabley stop other high powered special sweepers like LOcune, LOZap, Raikou, LO Latias I can only recommend Blissey over Bronzong. As much as I dislike taking out a steel type in this metagame and as much as I hate putting SR on bliss...well...I'm recommending both. That's not to say your current team can not somehow handle these threats it's just that you're at a severe disadvantage and if you were playing a player who was evenly matched with you, you'd probably end up losing. A lot of players would let their LOcune die after it took out celebi(while celebi TRed) instead of saving it for later. A mistake fore sure, but a mistake that many people on the ladder make.

It's unfortunate that there is no upside to having Headsmash on Rampardos unless you went LO+Headsmash which you already tested. I was initially thinking you could go Headsmash with expert belt but I imagine the loss of LO makes your ice beams fall short of 2hkoing hippo and the recoil off of headsmash is more than the LO damage when you were using stone edge (and the power is equal). In a way I think you might find Rhyperior more usful. I believe rhyperior has less attack but makes up for it with extra bulk. With a stable TRer like celebi, rhyperior could abuse TR multiple times and be more of a threat than rampardos. Further, it takes fire blasts aimed at celebi pretty well. I realize that ruins your theme though.

 

[Pocket]

Thank you, husk, for the quality post (leave Heracross alone!) =]. Yes, you are right in saying that I am disadvantaged against heavy Special offense. When I'm lucky, Gyarados could absorb a hit and Avalanche kill Latias, but that is not dependable. Bronzong can take Latias' hits pretty effectively, however (haven't really met any Latias with HP Fire), and Gyro Ball / Explode.

Bulky Zapdos are easier to deal with because they lack power and speed, so I can usually overwhelm it with Heatran's Flash Fire Fire Blast, Heracross' Facade, or Bronzong's Explosion. But yea, LO Zapdos is a different story. It is too fast and powerful, and at an opportune time it can literally sweep through the entire team with TBolt and Heat Wave.

Since I am not too far up in the ladder, I haven't faced any LO Suicune as of yet, so Celebi and Heracross usually beat it down, but I am pretty sure I would have little option against LO Suicune aside from Bronzong's Explosion.

As you've suspected, I've been encountering Sub + status Heatran recently in ladder, which is very annoying to deal with. I usually just bring in Gyarados and Taunt it, forcing it to switch. Then from then on, I try to predict it's switch-in whenever I have Celebi or Bronzong out, and bring in Heatran or Heracross. But yea, it is nasty. If I have TR up, Rampardos can come for the revenge kill.

Aside from losing TR, the only problem with your suggestion (Blissey > Bronzong) is that DDTar or CBTar would be a menace... Ttar can switch in against Heatran and screw me over from there. Celebi's Leaf Storm is usually a 2HKO, so that would leave me with either a dead or near useless Celebi, and now Rampardos is mostly death fodder (although it can still terrorize Blisseys). I don't know how well Blissey can take physical hits, but I am pretty sure it is no match against CB Stone-Edge, and I also doubt it can prevent DDTar from setting up.

Hmm, maybe a RestTalking Ttar? With the special defense boost it can no doubt survive hits from Heatran, Electric, and Latias. Suicune is still problematic, but the first three are more troublesome to me. Rest, Sleep Talk, Curse / Dragon Dance / Stone-Edge, and Crunch? If I need to, Ttar may give me enough wall-breaking power to replace Heracross, instead of replacing Bronzong and lose TR + Explosion, SR, and Rock / Dragon resist.

Alternatively, I thought of removing Celebi, instead of Bronzong, with Latias. I am pretty sure Latias can be effective in taking hits from Heatran and Zapdos, but then again Signal Beam Jolteon or Raikou still screws me, and I lose lots of physical Defense in the process.

 

[Garganator]

Interesting team. It abuses one of my favourite strategies with 2 fast sweepers, 2 Trick Room users and 1 or 2 slow sweepers. I would think to put here Jirachi with Wish to help Gyarados in taking hits. For example set like this:

Jirachi @ Leftovers With Max/Max Defences probably
~ Trick Room
~ Wish
~ U-Turn
~ Filler

This would give you another Trick Roomer (probably in Bronzong spot) and thanks to U-Turn you save one more round of Trick Room, which may be really important for your Rampardos.

Still I don't see any reason for Sleep Talk on that Heracross, as Guts with Flame Orb saves you also from going sleep. I guess you would replace this guy for slower sweeper with another typing then Rampardos like Flame Orb Machamp. Machamp deals with as much damage as possible and Rampardos cleans up the battlefield later. And you would have safe switch to TTar, as CB Stone Edge may deal a number on anything on that team with Bronzong being little exception.

Cheers.

 

[Pocket]

Sorry to double post, but this is a tentative lineup that I just brainstormed for a long while.

Gyarados - same
Celebi - same
Lucario
-either CSpecs or CScarf
- CSpecs: Shadow Ball, Vacuum Wave, Aura Sphere, and HP Rock
- CScarf: Close Combat, HP Ice, Stone-Edge, Dark Pulse
- Primarily for resisting Ttar's Crunch / Stone-Edge and stopping DDTar sweep
- replaces Heatran's role as a speedy sweeper
Zapdos
- focused on Special Defense to take hits from Gengar and Suicune
- Also resists Scizor, Metagross, and Heracross
- Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Toxic, Roost
Rampardos - same
Tyranitar
-bulky Rest Talker; mostly Special Defense oriented.
- Rest, Sleep Talk, Curse / Dragon Dance / Stone-Edge, Crunch
- Possibly going with Curse / Dragon Dance; I would give it enough Atk to break Heatran's Sub after 1 boost, and pour the rest in HP / SDef / Spd I guess.

How does this look?

EDIT: Garganator, Jirachi's Wish and Trick Room + Uturn looks really effective. It hardly helps with my problems against Special Offense, though (primarily LO Zapdos, LO Suicune, and Heatran). I also lose my DDTar counter if Bronzong is taken out. But yea, Perhaps LScreen on Jirachi for the final slot, and FOrb Machamp / Hariyama -> Heracross perhaps. The main reason why I opted Heracross over the other fighters were because I didn't want to be bothered with Spiritomb / Cresselia stall, but I suppose I have Taunt Gyarados to help me out with Spiritomb and Light Screen + Rampardos to help me out with Cresselia. Thanks for the input!

 

[Garganator]

EDIT: Garganator, Jirachi's Wish and Trick Room + Uturn looks really effective. It hardly helps with my problems against Special Offense, though (primarily LO Zapdos, LO Suicune, and Heatran). I also lose my DDTar counter if Bronzong is taken out. But yea, Perhaps LScreen on Jirachi for the final slot, and FOrb Machamp / Hariyama -> Heracross perhaps. The main reason why I opted Heracross over the other fighters were because I didn't want to be bothered with Spiritomb / Cresselia stall, but I suppose I have Taunt Gyarados to help me out with Spiritomb and Light Screen + Rampardos to help me out with Cresselia. Thanks for the input!

I know, but Celebi is too important member here as it absorbs those Earthquakes and fighting attacks aimed on Heatran. And is also takes electric attacks quite well aimed at Gyarados and that's why I suggested Bronzong. Yeah, Light Screen sounds good here and with it Celebi can handle LOCune or LOZapdos, so I guess it's your best shot. Machamp with 252 HP can handle DDTar if it has at least 60-70% of HP left and Hariyama will also be fine. For Spiritomb just give your Hariyama/Machamp Earthquake, which 2OHKo with Flame Orb activated Spiritomb (tested in UU with Hariyama on Spiritomb). It looks worse with Cresselia, but unfortunately they can't do much to Cressy, but I guess Rampardos can handle her. Torterra is also quite interesting option (no, it's not a joke). Handles bulky grounds and bulky waters (those with Trick Room), which stops Rampardos in tracks and stops any Tyranitar without Ice attack and with Crunch it can deal not bad damage on Cresselia and Celebi. Anyway, your team looks good even without any changes, but I hope that my propositions will help you a bit.

EDIT: And yeah, I don't understand why you run Speed EVs on Rampardos (typo ?) and Naughty Nature on Rampardos, when you use it under Trick Room anyway and with Hammer Arm, which also lowers your speed. -Speed nature is a way to go, especially when you use Ice Beam and that little bit of Special Defence may save you sometimes. With some free sandstorm (for example from opponents TTar or Hippo) and Light Screen from Jirachi it can handle special hits surprisingly well. Just put rest of those EVs in HP to give him little bulk.

ScarfLucario in ScarfTran spot doesn't look like a bad idea ;).

 

[Pocket]

MMM, Torterra =dd

The one big assumption that I think you are making though, is that the Trick Room would be activated most of the battle; I usually don't Trick Room very often, only in mid to late game. Most of my wall-breaking Pokemon are faster than the common walls, so giving these walls the speed advantage makes it that much harder to take them down. However, if I do decide to add Torterra (though I wouldn't know which monster to displace) or Machamp / Hariyama in the team, longer exposure to Trick Room may prove advantageous.

I gave Rampardos that speed primarily to outpace Swampert, Porygon2, and slower bulkier Tyranitars before the Trick Room is activated. I don't know, for some reason I thought being faster than some of the tanks in normal conditions would be beneficial for the team, especially for Heatran, and would offer an additional opportunity for Rampardos to come in outside of TRoom. With just a few more Spd EVs it can be faster than Vaporeon, but I don't know if I want to invest any more Spd EVs...

 

[Garganator]

The one big assumption that I think you are making though, is that the Trick Room would be activated most of the battle; I usually don't Trick Room very often, only in mid to late game. Most of my wall-breaking Pokemon are faster than the common walls, so giving these walls the speed advantage makes it that much harder to take them down. However, if I do decide to add Torterra (though I wouldn't know which monster to displace) or Machamp / Hariyama in the team, longer exposure to Trick Room may prove advantageous.

Because when I abused strategy similar to yours I had Trick Room activated most of times ;). And those fast sweepers and Scarfer for situations, when you can't just activate that Trick Room. Of course you may just use it in mid-game or late-game, it's the reason why I like mixed in speed teams like this - they're ready to handle almost anything in every situation. And with change of Heracross on Machamp/Hariyama/Torterra Trick Room is just more important and with only one Trick Room sweeper you don't really need Two Trick Roomers, especially when it has an access to healing move like Celebi or Jirachi. It just depends on if you replace that Heracross or not.

I gave Rampardos that speed primarily to outpace Swampert, Porygon2, and slower bulkier Tyranitars before the Trick Room is activated. I don't know, for some reason I thought being faster than some of the tanks in normal conditions would be beneficial for the team, especially for Heatran, and would offer an additional opportunity for Rampardos to come in outside of TRoom. With just a few more Spd EVs it can be faster than Vaporeon, but I don't know if I want to invest any more Spd EVs...

Sounds fair enough, I won't complain about this one ;). I don't think it's really worth to invest more speed. If you face something like Machamp on switch, it may be troublesome to have more Speed EVs. And you need that Special attack to deal with bulky grounds.

And when I think about it... yeah, ScarfLucario is good option in ScarfTran spot even if only for TTar.