ORAS OU Rate my ORAS team

[Kcaj]

This is one of my first attempts at a functional ORAS team and I'm eager for suggestions on ways to improve it.

Dragonite @ Persim Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

My team often starts with Dragonite because he can usually take out the first one or two Pokemon. I use Dragon Dance then O utrage. Earthquake is in there to take out annoying steel and steel-fairy types like Mawile, Excadrill, and Klefki. Extreme Speed is there so Dragonite has a priority move for finishing.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Ice Punch

Mega Lopunny is there to take out powerful dark/steel types like Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Krookodile. Ice Punch is there to OHKO dragon flying types like Raquaza. I can also pivot back and forth with Magnezone to spam Fake Out.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Brave Bird

I put Talonflame in to counter powerful threats like Hippowdon that Loppuny can't handle, while also being able to OHKO other flying types.

Snorlax @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rest
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Snore

Snorlax works 50% of the time. I usually use him to pivot from Dragonite (because thick fat resists ice type moves), but when I can get Belly Drum to work he can weep entire teams. First Sorlax will use Snore, then Belly Drum leaving him very low on health. Snore will put the opponent to sleep after Belly Drum so that Snorlax can use Rest. The Chesto Berry will then wake up Snorlax and then he is ready to use return.

Gengar @ Quickclaw
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dream Eater
- Hypnosis

Gengar controls fairies and can put large threats to sleep. His speed allows him to OHKO opposing psychic types like Latias, Latios, ect.

Magnezone @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Flash Canon
- Metal Sound

Magnezone can trap steel types with magnet pull and OHKO flying types with Thunder. Volt switch allows him to pivot to Snorlax if the opponent brings in a fire type. Focus sash allows Magnezone to survive Talonflame so that it can use Thunder to OHKO.

Any feedback to help me improve my team is wanted. I often have trouble dealing with Cloysters, Tyranitars, and highly defensive teams, so a counter to those would be really helpful.

 

[celes]

Hey Kcaj, this build has potential but your sets could really use some adjustments.

The biggest issue I'm seeing with your team is hazards. Your have no hazard removal when running both Dragonite and Talonflame, and you also have no Stealth Rock setter to help keep Pokemon like Charizard and opposing Talonflame in check. When running no hazards you get much less reward off of double switches, and you lose out on certain 2HKOs or OHKOs that would be otherwise guaranteed with only one switch-in to Stealth Rock. For instance, Jolly Charizard-X can outspeed Choice Scarf Landorus-T after a Dragon Dance and OHKO it with Flare Blitz, but that's only once Landorus-T has taken Stealth Rock damage. Without Stealth Rock you also can't break Sturdy or Focus Sash, and your opponent can switch without second thought since they won't be taking any damage. This is why Stealth Rock has been a staple on competitive teams since its introduction in DPP, and why you should be running it, especially seeing how effective it can be against your own team. Since you're very weak to Charizard-X, opposing Talonflame, Sand Rush Excadrill, and need a Stealth Rock setter, I think you should run defensive Landorus-T > Snorlax. Your Snorlax set is something that works better in theory than in practice. While getting to +6 Attack and being able to Rest to get up to full seems like a good strategy, Snorlax is so slow that once you're at half health you'll likely get taken out before you can Rest. You also have the misconception that Snore puts opposing Pokemon to sleep, but it's actually a Special move that only works when you yourself are asleep. So if you were to go for Snore after Belly Drum as you described, all that would happen is that the move would fail since Snorlax isn't asleep, and you would likely get KO'd the following turn. Snorlax isn't very viable in OU in general, but if you did want to use it as a win condition then a set of Curse, Sleep Talk, Rest, and Return (or Frustration if you're worried about Ditto) with Max HP, Max Special Defense and Leftovers would be a far better option.

CurseLax

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Return
- Sleep Talk / Earthquake
- Rest

Next, for hazard removal you should run Healing Wish Latias > Gengar since this not only provides you with a Defogger, but also a much needed Keldeo and Rotom-W check. Healing Wish is nice on these types of offensive builds that don't have much longevity and focus more on hitting hard since you can bring back one of your wallbreakers to help finish off weakened teams. Quick Claw isn't a good competitive item since it's very inconsistent, and on something like Gengar that sits in a solid speed tier, it's not really needed. Hypnosis + Dream Eater is also not a good combination competitively since Hypnosis itself has shaky accuracy, and Dream Eater is useless since Sleep Clause makes it so that only one Pokemon will be getting hit by it. Dream Eater does have great power at 100 BP, but both Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb are far stronger with STAB, both being Base 120 and 135 respectively. Focus Blast is generally a better option since it hits Dark and Normal types which are the only Pokemon that resist / are immune to Ghost type moves, and Sludge Wave is used on Gengar rather than Sludge Bomb since otherwise Chesnaught can hard wall you due to Bulletproof nullifying Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, and Focus Blast. If you did want to run a status combo on Gengar then you'd be better off running Will-O-Wisp + Hex since that's much more consistent, plus Hex turns into Gengar's most powerful STAB option on a statused opponent.

Hex Gengar

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 120 HP / 136 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb

or

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Hex

Standard Gengar

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / Icy Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

You had the right idea with Dragonite, but Persim Berry only helps with confusion while Lum Berry covers confusion but also helps prevent paralysis and burns. Your team however lacks a proper revenge killer or wallbreaker, so I think you should actually run Choice Band > Persim Berry on Dragonite and Fire Punch > Dragon Dance. Choice Band Extreme Speed is great for revenge killing, Outrage is fantastic for breaking down walls like Slowbro, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Quagsire, etc. that are also hard for M-Lopunny and Talonflame to deal with, while Earthquake and Fire Punch provide solid coverage. Dragonite wallbreaking early to mid game helps Talonflame a lot when you're trying to sweep after a Swords Dance.

Lastly, your Magnezone set could use some adjustments. With your current spread you're slower than (Mega) Scizor, which allows either forme to potentially U-Turn out before you can take them out. Running Focus Sash and investing entirely in a defensive stat is also redundant since you're providing yourself with bulk while also holding an item that's supposed to prevent you from being OHKO'd generally due to lack of good defenses. Magnezone naturally has good defenses so it doesn't need Focus Sash, unlike Dugtrio, so I think you should run a different item. The extra BP that Thunder has over Thunderbolt might seem appealing but it's accuracy makes its very inconsistent, and the extra power isn't really needed in most circumstances. So to provide you with another hard hitter, you should run Choice Specs > Focus Sash on Magnezone, as well as Thunderbolt > Thunder and Hidden Power Fire > Metal Sound. Hidden Power Fire is mandatory on Magnezone since its main niche is trapping stuff like both Scizor formes and Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn, ironically enough, hard walls you if you don't run Fire coverage. With a spread of 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe you can outspeed M-Scizor without speed investment and be able to trap them, as well as other Steel types so Dragonite can freely spam Outrage, and M-Lopunny can be more free to go for Return without having to risk High Jump Kick missing.

Updated Team

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latias (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

Hope i was able to help!

 

[Kcaj]

Hey Kcaj, this build has potential but your sets could really use some adjustments.

The biggest issue I'm seeing with your team is hazards. Your have no hazard removal when running both Dragonite and Talonflame, and you also have no Stealth Rock setter to help keep Pokemon like Charizard and opposing Talonflame in check. When running no hazards you get much less reward off of double switches, and you lose out on certain 2HKOs or OHKOs that would be otherwise guaranteed with only one switch-in to Stealth Rock. For instance, Jolly Charizard-X can outspeed Choice Scarf Landorus-T after a Dragon Dance and OHKO it with Flare Blitz, but that's only once Landorus-T has taken Stealth Rock damage. Without Stealth Rock you also can't break Sturdy or Focus Sash, and your opponent can switch without second thought since they won't be taking any damage. This is why Stealth Rock has been a staple on competitive teams since its introduction in DPP, and why you should be running it, especially seeing how effective it can be against your own team. Since you're very weak to Charizard-X, opposing Talonflame, Sand Rush Excadrill, and need a Stealth Rock setter, I think you should run defensive Landorus-T > Snorlax. Your Snorlax set is something that works better in theory than in practice. While getting to +6 Attack and being able to Rest to get up to full seems like a good strategy, Snorlax is so slow that once you're at half health you'll likely get taken out before you can Rest. You also have the misconception that Snore puts opposing Pokemon to sleep, but it's actually a Special move that only works when you yourself are asleep. So if you were to go for Snore after Belly Drum as you described, all that would happen is that the move would fail since Snorlax isn't asleep, and you would likely get KO'd the following turn. Snorlax isn't very viable in OU in general, but if you did want to use it as a win condition then a set of Curse, Sleep Talk, Rest, and Return (or Frustration if you're worried about Ditto) with Max HP, Max Special Defense and Leftovers would be a far better option.

CurseLax

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Return
- Sleep Talk / Earthquake
- Rest

Next, for hazard removal you should run Healing Wish Latias > Gengar since this not only provides you with a Defogger, but also a much needed Keldeo and Rotom-W check. Healing Wish is nice on these types of offensive builds that don't have much longevity and focus more on hitting hard since you can bring back one of your wallbreakers to help finish off weakened teams. Quick Claw isn't a good competitive item since it's very inconsistent, and on something like Gengar that sits in a solid speed tier, it's not really needed. Hypnosis + Dream Eater is also not a good combination competitively since Hypnosis itself has shaky accuracy, and Dream Eater is useless since Sleep Clause makes it so that only one Pokemon will be getting hit by it. Dream Eater does have great power at 100 BP, but both Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb are far stronger with STAB, both being Base 120 and 135 respectively. Focus Blast is generally a better option since it hits Dark and Normal types which are the only Pokemon that resist / are immune to Ghost type moves, and Sludge Wave is used on Gengar rather than Sludge Bomb since otherwise Chesnaught can hard wall you due to Bulletproof nullifying Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, and Focus Blast. If you did want to run a status combo on Gengar then you'd be better off running Will-O-Wisp + Hex since that's much more consistent, plus Hex turns into Gengar's most powerful STAB option on a statused opponent.

Hex Gengar

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 120 HP / 136 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb

or

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Hex

Standard Gengar

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / Icy Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

You had the right idea with Dragonite, but Persim Berry only helps with confusion while Lum Berry covers confusion but also helps prevent paralysis and burns. Your team however lacks a proper revenge killer or wallbreaker, so I think you should actually run Choice Band > Persim Berry on Dragonite and Fire Punch > Dragon Dance. Choice Band Extreme Speed is great for revenge killing, Outrage is fantastic for breaking down walls like Slowbro, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Quagsire, etc. that are also hard for M-Lopunny and Talonflame to deal with, while Earthquake and Fire Punch provide solid coverage. Dragonite wallbreaking early to mid game helps Talonflame a lot when you're trying to sweep after a Swords Dance.

Lastly, your Magnezone set could use some adjustments. With your current spread you're slower than (Mega) Scizor, which allows either forme to potentially U-Turn out before you can take them out. Running Focus Sash and investing entirely in a defensive stat is also redundant since you're providing yourself with bulk while also holding an item that's supposed to prevent you from being OHKO'd generally due to lack of good defenses. Magnezone naturally has good defenses so it doesn't need Focus Sash, unlike Dugtrio, so I think you should run a different item. The extra BP that Thunder has over Thunderbolt might seem appealing but it's accuracy makes its very inconsistent, and the extra power isn't really needed in most circumstances. So to provide you with another hard hitter, you should run Choice Specs > Focus Sash on Magnezone, as well as Thunderbolt > Thunder and Hidden Power Fire > Metal Sound. Hidden Power Fire is mandatory on Magnezone since its main niche is trapping stuff like both Scizor formes and Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn, ironically enough, hard walls you if you don't run Fire coverage. With a spread of 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe you can outspeed M-Scizor without speed investment and be able to trap them, as well as other Steel types so Dragonite can freely spam Outrage, and M-Lopunny can be more free to go for Return without having to risk High Jump Kick missing.

Updated Team

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latias (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

Hope i was able to help!

What should I do if I don't have access to defog latios?