Regarding Focus Sash and it's balance

[Shiny Crobat]

A lot of shit would be overpowered if the situation would be a little bit different, I don't get the point of this threat at all.

 

[mien]

Ok put it this way:

Infernape is out, and you switch to your Infernape counter, Starmie, to take the Close Combat.

Starmie retaliates with Surf, Infernape hangs on with the Focus Sash, and KOs Starmie with Grass Knot. After Infernape dies, you reveal a Gyarados. That method of eliminating the counter took no prediction or skill, just the use of a cheap item... and you guys want SR banned? pshhhhhhh

Lol, really this is retarted
This happens even now as Infernape is a very common lead nowadays, SR removal won't change anything here
I've never heard anybody complaining before you did now

Besides Infernape is a really poor example as it get's hurt by the common SS, only a few pokemon can actually use Focus Sash later in game effectivly. Lucario for example could benefit from it yet without SR Lucario really loses a lot of Support.

I'm certain that if SR ban applies the game will become less fast-paced killing everything in ten turns.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Focus sash is useful, but it wont be broken without SR. Theres still lots of checks, and those flyers/levitators still all take sandstorm/hail(except zong and Skarmory but they wont be using FS). The only flying type maybe using FS would be Salmence, but then he looses the choice item he treasures so much

 

[Tleilax]

Focus sash is useful, but it wont be broken without SR. Theres still lots of checks, and those flyers/levitators still all take sandstorm/hail(except zong and Skarmory but they wont be using FS). The only flying type maybe using FS would be Salmence, but then he looses the choice item he treasures so much

Sandstream and Snow Warning cannot be considered checks because not just any team can utilize them. You only see Hail on dedicated Hail teams, and while T-tar is quite common, teams don't necessarily want Sandstream negating their Lefties or stacking on top of Life Orb damage.

I rarely see Salamence with Choice items anymore. They are usually DD Mence. If held until the enemy team has been scouted, assuming no rocks are out DD Mence with a Focus Sash can sweep what's left easily. It will be guaranteed to get at least one DD in, two if one switches to a Salamence counter. After that you need priority attacks to bring them down. That's the ideal way to play Focus Sash users. Try and scout out and eliminate priority users, then use the Sash to set up and sweep.

 

[mien]

Sandstream and Snow Warning cannot be considered checks because not just any team can utilize them. You only see Hail on dedicated Hail teams, and while T-tar is quite common, teams don't necessarily want Sandstream negating their Lefties or stacking on top of Life Orb damage.

I rarely see Salamence with Choice items anymore. They are usually DD Mence. If held until the enemy team has been scouted, assuming no rocks are out DD Mence with a Focus Sash can sweep what's left easily. It will be guaranteed to get at least one DD in, two if one switches to a Salamence counter. After that you need priority attacks to bring them down. That's the ideal way to play Focus Sash users. Try and scout out and eliminate priority users, then use the Sash to set up and sweep.

That's in theory, Salamence can only sweep well after one DD while carrying both LO and SR support
Although it's easier to get one boost with Focus Sash (hoping there is no SS/Hail) it's power will be extremely limited compared to the LO ones common in the metagame

Besides speaking of priority users the insanely common Heatran/Scizor combination makes using Fire moves on Scizor quite risky and thus though to take down.
With so many Scizors around who easily resists Lucario's extremespeed i fail to see the sash versions work well

 

[urza220]

Obviously you didn't test this out; apparently it doesn't work. I tried to come up with the ultimate counter to scyther and I tried rock blast for focus sash. It doesn't work. I asked in simple question thread too.

Did you test it on wifi or Shoddy? I'm not sure what the actual cartridge behavior is, but I know on Shoddy that multi hit moves will kill through a sash (just tested it out to be sure).

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Sandstream and Snow Warning cannot be considered checks because not just any team can utilize them. You only see Hail on dedicated Hail teams, and while T-tar is quite common, teams don't necessarily want Sandstream negating their Lefties or stacking on top of Life Orb damage.

I rarely see Salamence with Choice items anymore. They are usually DD Mence. If held until the enemy team has been scouted, assuming no rocks are out DD Mence with a Focus Sash can sweep what's left easily. It will be guaranteed to get at least one DD in, two if one switches to a Salamence counter. After that you need priority attacks to bring them down. That's the ideal way to play Focus Sash users. Try and scout out and eliminate priority users, then use the Sash to set up and sweep.

Well, like everyone is saying, he is losing vital power by dropping life orb
And negating Lefties hasnt stopped most TTar/Hippo using teams. And theres still spikes and toxic spikes, and those flyers are countered by ttar, with sandstream taking them out if they had 1 HP

And for those teams without TTar/Hippo/Spikes, well theyve had problems with FSashers before

 

[foibles]

im sorry, but after sash activates, anything with a priority move can come in and pick it off. it seems pretty simple to me. this is one of the reasons that I like max HP scizor so much. It can reliable kill any focus sasher that I can think of (excluding flamethrower from azelf)

Did you test it on wifi or Shoddy? I'm not sure what the actual cartridge behavior is, but I know on Shoddy that multi hit moves will kill through a sash (just tested it out to be sure).

i believe that this does work on shoddy.

 

[chaos 9]

So now if your team dosen't carry a priority move or spikes you lose? That seems a bit unfair. Consider this: Lucario comes in on somthing that it scares away. It SDs on the switch. Then, it either SDs again and sash takes the hit, or it starts killing things. With max speed and jolly with a sash, lucario loses power sure, but it is made up for by being able to get 4+ attack due to sash and sweep with 957 attack.

Even "surefire counters" lose to it. Say Lucario SDs on a scarf heatran switch. Normally, the lucario user is forced to switch. But with sash, it can KO with Close combat and keep sweeping. Don't have a priority move? Than that heatran situation lets lucario get 2 kills MINIMUM unless you have a very fast scarfer that resists extremespeed. Not likely if your heatran just died. With jolly, it also outspeeds and kos zapdos with ice punch.

I will test this as a lead as it allows for the same effects minus the lategame factor.

 

[Great Sage]

Regardless of anyone's efforts, this is going to be a proxy for Stealth Rock discussion, since it necessitates the banning of Stealth Rock. We haven't even gotten to that stage yet, so any discussion here is likely only speculation without any experience.