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Surprised to see the Paldea starters aren’t discussed as much when they fill pretty good roles.
Meowscarada is probably the least useful since its only unique trait it brings to the table is Flower Trick. It has Leech Seed, Taunt, and Knock Off, so still very useful, but besides Flower Trick tons of Pokemon have this.
Skeledirge is the most surprising. Having Unaware is amazing in this metagame both defensively and offensively too. It also has Ghost typing to prevent trapping, and Torch Song too, so while it dishes out damage you snowball your SpA that can be passed to other teammates.
Quaquaval is very similar, but instead of Unaware and SpA, you get Moxie and Aqua Step. You also get Flip Turn, Taunt, Knock Off, Roost, etc.
I'd argue Quaquaval is actually the worst. It is unable to break through defensive boosts with critical hits and is unable to immediately boost its offensive stats and threaten a sweep while ignoring the opponent's stat buffs. It only offers Rapid Spin, which is a role better suited for Excadrill as a Mold Breaking wallbreaker, Taunt, which is on many other viable Pokemon, and Flip Turn, which is covered by Primarina.
Oh and btw where is the discussion around Mean Look and Block? Perish Trapping is now significantly easier with trap moves being passable. Use Mean Look or Block, switch out to a Perish Song or Ghost Curse user, and make sure you have a pivot move user (perferably Teleport or Chilly Reception) to remove your own Perish Song before everyone dies (optional, if you use Perish Song over Ghost Curse).
Additionally you can use Mean Look, then have a team of set up mons that can easily go uncontested since your opponent can’t switch in most scenarios.
Fully expected Perish Song or Mean Look to at least be on the watchlist.
Blocking moves are passable? Having pseudo-Shadow Tag definitely seems broken. Curse is also extremely annoying since you are forced to permanently stay in on your Magic Guard Pokemon (only Reuniclus) to stop it, and the Curse users themselves often can't be threatened easily.
I'd argue Quaquaval is actually the worst. It is unable to break through defensive boosts with critical hits and is unable to immediately boost its offensive stats and threaten a sweep while ignoring the opponent's stat buffs. It only offers Rapid Spin, which is a role better suited for Excadrill as a Mold Breaking wallbreaker, Taunt, which is on many other viable Pokemon, and Flip Turn, which is covered by Primarina.
Blocking moves are passable? Having pseudo-Shadow Tag definitely seems broken. Curse is also extremely annoying since you are forced to permanently stay in on your Magic Guard Pokemon (only Reuniclus) to stop it, and the Curse users themselves often can't be threatened easily.
I'd argue Quaquaval is better than Meowscarada since Focus Energy gives +2 crit chance anyways, making Flower Trick less useful. Additionally that's all Meowscarada does that isn't done by several other Pokemon. Quaquaval has Aqua Step, which is like Trailblaze/Flame Charge but has 80 BP and Quaquaval has Moxie. Also unlike Meowscarada, Quaquaval has Bulk Up and Sword Dance and Roost, meaning you can turn it into primarily a stat passer.
Also Mean Look stuff ended up being misinformation. The trapped Pokémon can still switch out if it is holding a Shed Shell; uses U-turn, Volt Switch, Flip Turn, or Baton Pass; or is hit by Whirlwind, Roar, Dragon Tail, or Circle Throw. Prior to Generation V, if a Pokémon that can't escape or the Pokémon that trapped it uses Baton Pass, the Pokémon (or its replacement) still can't escape; from Generation V onward, the effect can be passed only by the Pokémon that can't escape.
This only applies to Gens 2-4 for the trapper. The trapped Pokemon would still have this applied only if they use Baton Pass or presumably have Shed Shell.
I didn’t want to jump in about the trapping thing, but I’m glad you caught that! It’s a little confusing, but the important take away is that the trapping effect is only passed on the trappee’s end, not the trapper.
Thus if you’re trapped, you cannot switch out to pass along the trapping effect (unless you use Baton Pass). This would make Perish Trapping really clunky, especially when you consider you need two turns to use Mean Look and PS, the only mons who have both Perish Song and Mean Look are really frail, and regardless, pivot moves remain counterplay to Perish Song. So, I doubt Perish Trapping will be much of an issue, at least not in this manner.
Now trapping + boosting on the other hand? That’s totally on the table. For instance… Lock Jaw and Dragon Dance on Roaring Moon. This is probably best used in conjunction with Tera to catch the switch in by surprise. >:)
Alright, new metagame, new ladder, peaked at number 3 on said ladder (Benny Wells)
A few thoughts on broad concepts in this metagame:
First and foremost... Substitute (Any mon)
This is the only reason the meta game works.
Maybe I am crazy, but to run a team without substitute is like making a sandwich without bread. You can make a good lettuce wrap, but that isn't the standard for a reason.
Substitute stops and allows so much cancer which makes the metagame unique.
Leech Seed
Status
Stat Lowering
And also Stat Resetting (aside from haze)
Salt Cure
Losing Items to Knock Off
Gastro Acid I guess
Realistically it is just 1 thing, Set up chains, which are usually best abused by 1 Unaware mon, and one status resistant mon (Ghold, Hatt, etc.). I will get into both those archetypes in a minute here.
That being said, I do not think sub is broken, but very important glue, which makes for more interesting games.
Without Substitute, every team NEEDS Gholdengo or a magic bouncer, and even then to play around seed and status and setup (especially crits) without sub would be much harder.
Sub itself isn't what makes the metagame broken, but it shuts down the most annoying aspects of the metagame, and enables what I think to be the heart and goal of the metagame: passing and playing around stat chains.
Unaware (, , ())
With the amount of setup that goes on, unaware is boosted in strength a lot more.
Clefable is the best and most malleable, but Dozo works better for physical based teams with belly drum, and clod is better for bulkier teams who aren't looking to sweep with their unaware mon/use it as a win con (I think dirge has a place as well, spin blocking, and stat raising torch song, but without stored power, I don't think it will be as used as clef).
Everyone should teambuild to not get hosed by an unaware mon, making teambuilding more involved, and still not that restrictive (as of now).
Status+Stat Abusers (, , , ())
I think Leech seed is a very important part of the metagame, and I think these are the three best users (I also think smeargle could be usable, but also it could be horrible, so I won't talk about it right now). The reason I think these 3 mons are so strong, is because you never know if a sub, seed, taunt, or setup move is coming out. Answering a leech seed is completely different then answering a cotton guard, leaf storm, focus energy, and answering those are all different than sub or taunt. Be ready for these grass types, and maybe these need tiering action eventually? But they should be ok for now (with maybe the exception of Focus energy, I will get there too).
Status Avoiders (, , , )
On the other end of the spectrum, you always need to be ready for leech seed, and to a lesser extent, salt cure, as you will get stalled out if you don't prepare for it. It is best to prevent it, using grass types, good as gold, substitute or magic bounce, but ignoring it through magic guard can also work, but only if you plan on removing it later down the line (usually through pivot moves, but also through the very useful rapid spin). Leech seed (and less important effects and status) is not broken either (imo), but again something to make sure you do not lose to in the builder.
Opponent Stat Resetting (so many mons)
To play around crazy stat trains, look no further than the following: Taunt Weak Resetting
Haze (, , , ): There are a small amount of viable mons with haze, and it is the most reliable way to bring an enemy chain to a halt, with the downside of stopping any boosts you may have. However it is susceptible to Taunt (unless your name is murkrow), so a very balanced and cool move overall.
Roar/Whirlwind (, , ): Trading the downside of removing your own stats, for it being negative priority, being even more susceptible to taunt, and potentially also to strong slow sweepers.
Perish Song/Ghost Curse (, , ): This feels wrong to put this here, but often perish song or Ghost curse forces a switch move, and a loss of boosts, rather than forcing a death. Same weaknesses as haze, but it also loses to gholdengo, and puts on more offensive pressure. Substitute Weak Resetting
Dragon Tail (no viable circle throw users imo sorry spidops fans) (, ): Very good move, especially on bulkier mons, but relying on them loses not only to sub, but also to the many viable fairy types.
Topsy Turvy (): Technically weak to both sub and taunt, but if you get it off, you are in a fantastic position usually.
Clear Smog (, , ): This is the most underrated move in the format. Only Steels are immune, and is very worth while as a 4th move slot on any mon who has access to it.
Pivoting
Pivoting theoretically goes against the whole goal of the format, but it lets you play around things like seed and stat drops much better.
U-Turn (, , , etc.): Old reliable is still here to pivot you out of a bad situation. The many U-turn users are fine, and actually encourage diverse strategies, rather than just set up or just stall, as the U-turn user is in control whether they keep or lose their stats.
Volt Switch (, ): Paradoxically, Volt switch just isn't seen near as often, because it's users usually like to pass or receive boosts. Definitely not a bad move, but not a must on the normal users of the move.
Flip Turn (, /, ): Also helpful pivoting moves for these mons in a pinch, not much else to say.
(You can also use things like shed tail and chilly reception well)
Overall, pivoting is really interesting and serves a different purpose than in standard play, and I am excited to see how these could be used as the meta develops, since it isn't the brain off move they normally are (except shed tail lol).
Switch-in Stat Boosters (, )
These are fine (when considering just the boosts, and not the mon as a whole). Both are very committal (Zama only once, and Ogerpon uses tera), and you can play around them.
Intimidate (Lots of mons)
Also not the end of the world. Most teams should have a reliable special attacker, and if you don't likely you are relying on belly drum, in which case a few intimidates can't stop the sweep.
Potential Bans?
So with all of this being said, should there be any bans?
Here are my thoughts on what I have seen some controversy over.
In terms of pokemon worth looking at, I think there are only a small few maybe worth looking at for action.
Ogerpon (All Forms) have too many tools at once. As I have described above, I do not think any one thing is broken, but having access to leech seed, taunt, u-turn, sub, focus energy (and a stab move that combos, and changes in type based on form), good speed, and a repeatable stat buff is a lot for one mon to have at once. I don't think a quick ban is in order, but looking at him should be considered.
Clefable is the other that has a lot. First is unaware and magic guard as both amazing abilities in the format, and guessing wrong could easily get your team dismantled. Stored power in combination with this, and a tera to get it out of binds, is very strong, but I am hesitant on banning it, as it is glue on many setup teams, which I tend to see as less offensive/annoying.
Gholdengo is also a menace, but requires to many reads on when to bring it in for me to consider it broken at the moment. The more that gets banned the better Ghold gets, so be ready for that.
Whimsicott and Serperior for reasons mentioned above.
There are a few others, but I don't think any one mon is too broken (aside from maybe Ogerpon).
What about Moves or abilities?
Contrary: Yes Serperior and Malamar are both good, but are they broken? Serperior would still be a very threatening mon without contrary, abusing sub-seed, glare, dragon tail, as well as a few other moves. Malamar is the same way, being more known for its use of topsy turvy than contrary. I am glad I did not experience the tier with enamorus, but the contrary mons we have seem ok, with serp only being so good because of everything it has adding up, rather than just contrary.
Focus Energy: If it were up to me, this is the one thing out of everything that gets the boot. Yes, it is strong, but it also just isn't fun for anyone to rely on luck, or worse, on the scope lens (that is a joke, luck is worse). This strategy is cool in theory, but in practice, most crit abusers do not want to rely on scope lens, and thus focus energy strategies often rely on luck. Maybe Ogerpon-Grass is just a really good abuser, also giving speed to teammates, but as it stands, I think focus energy seems too luck based to be healthy for the tier, but I could be very wrong with that take.
Terastilization: I have mixed feelings on this, but over all, in a metagame reliant on abilities and stat boosts more than ever, tera has never seemed less impactful to a game. It absolutely can still clutch a losing position if the opponent doesn't account for it, but I think tera isn't that bad, and counterplay is everywhere, especially with the increase of stat resetting moves.
Overall, for it only being day 3, I think this meta has a long way to grow, and I look forward to it!
Focus Energy: If it were up to me, this is the one thing out of everything that gets the boot. Yes, it is strong, but it also just isn't fun for anyone to rely on luck, or worse, on the scope lens (that is a joke, luck is worse). This strategy is cool in theory, but in practice, most crit abusers do not want to rely on scope lens, and thus focus energy strategies often rely on luck. Maybe Ogerpon-Grass is just a really good abuser, also giving speed to teammates, but as it stands, I think focus energy seems too luck based to be healthy for the tier, but I could be very wrong with that take.
I would argue that Since Ogerpon-W and -T are by far the best abusers of this anyway, it isn't actually that luck reliant. I do agree that it feels somewhat antithetical to the stat boosting identity of baton pass, but I don't know if it merits a ban yet. I am not at all high ladder but that's just my take on it.
Focus Energy: If it were up to me, this is the one thing out of everything that gets the boot. Yes, it is strong, but it also just isn't fun for anyone to rely on luck, or worse, on the scope lens (that is a joke, luck is worse). This strategy is cool in theory, but in practice, most crit abusers do not want to rely on scope lens, and thus focus energy strategies often rely on luck. Maybe Ogerpon-Grass is just a really good abuser, also giving speed to teammates, but as it stands, I think focus energy seems too luck based to be healthy for the tier, but I could be very wrong with that take.
Focus Energy is more anti-luck. You get instant +2 crit chance, which means your crit chance is 50%. At that high of a chance, you got to expect and respect those chances. It’s way better than getting critted with 1/24 or 1/8 chance since its common enough to justify using actual anti-crit strategies. You then slap on a high crit move like Ivy Cudgel, Triple Arrows, or Leaf Blade, or Scope Lens, or what ever, making it 100%.
However it still problematic because your anti-crit strategies include 2 whole abilities and managing to phase out Focus Energy abusers.
And the problem with crits more so than something similar like Sacred Sword how abundent Focus Energy is. There are only so many Sacred Sword users and offensively capable Unaware Pokemon compared to anything capable of setting Focus Energy up then passing it to literally anything. That is despite how Sacred Sword/Darkest Lariat on paper should be better since they bypass Def even against Shell/Battle Armor and Acupressure.
The meta is coming into focus. Stat chains are not the end all, be all. Balance and Stall are quite viable at high ladder, by virtue of passing negative afflictions and hazards being under prepared for. Samurott-Hisui is a staple on such teams, for being able to set Spikes past meta staple Hatterene. Raw HO is also quite good at derailing slow to start stat chains, not having adequate time to react defensively.
These are the items that have thus far been pointed out as being particularly strong and potentially unhealthy for the tier. Please feel free to discuss them, either for or against, or any other problematic elements you’ve encountered.
Edit: I am also adding Stored Power and Power Trip to the watchlist at this time.
How exactly are Pecharunt and Meloetta unhealthy? Pecharunt is just an annoying status spreader that has more bulk than Gholdengo, and Meloetta is just another Perish Song user that has a worse matchup into Gholdengo than Primarina, but has Knock Off.
Furthermore, I don’t think normal Ogerpon is broken because mono-Grass is a horrible typing and it is easily outclassed by Ogerpon-Cornerstone (which I don’t think is broken right now). Is sacrificing a Terastalization for a simple speed boost that worth it?
We will be assessing each Opgerpon form individually, and I have seen zero use cases of Ogerpon-Cornerstone yet, and thus nothing to conclude it is as strong as the other forms. Objectively though, Grass/Rock is the worst typing of the bunch, and there are other mons that easily boost defense like Mudsdale and Zamazenta (plus Intimidate) and those seem fine for now.
We also have to unravel whether the Ogerpons are broken or Focus Energy is broken as a move. If Focus Energy is banned, the Ogerpons may be fine. If Ogerpon is banned, Focus Energy loses its best users.
Personally I think people are adapting to Perish Song with dual pivot cores, so it may well not prove to be broken, as these cores are quite good for a number of other reasons, but I think this is the ideal Meloetta set: it beats both Gholdengo (Ghost immunity + bulk) and Kommo-O, especially if something passes it a Calm Mind or Nasty Plot. Mel also has merit over Primarina in that it is not trapped by Water Absorb. Ogerpon-WP being common on ladder makes Prima pretty uncomfortable and inconsistent to use.
Meloetta @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Calm Mind
- Perish Song
- U-turn
Like Skeledirge, Pecharunt is a bulky Ghost with access to both Curse and recovery, and STABs that threaten Dengo, Hat, Clef and Reuniclus. It also has Parting Shot to drop the opposition’s offense stats and shed its own teams’ negative afflictions, but taking it a step beyond is Malignant Chain, which will confuse anything it poisons.
Since confusion is Baton Passed, this can easily generate free turns for Pecharunt’s team and win games on the spot.
Edit: Here’s the Skeledirge reasoning too if anyone missed it. I had edited my rundown post at the end of page 1 for its inclusion:
Skeledirge is a nice ball of traits and stats highlighted by Torch Song, a boosting solo attack that hits through Substitute, being the only viable Unaware Mon with access to Roar, Will o Wisp, Curse in conjunction with recovery and bulk, and the choice of Ghost STAB between Shadow Ball or Hex. Curse on it is great because it naturally threatens Gholdengo, Hatterene, and the Magic Guard mons, who do not want to switch in to it.
It’s not hard to see why Dirge is doing well in this format, it has everything going for it.
We will be assessing each Opgerpon form individually, and I seen zero use cases of Ogerpon-Cornerstone yet, and thus nothing to conclude it is as strong as the other forms. Objectively though, Grass/Rock is the worst typing of the bunch, and there are other mons that easily boost defense like Mudsdale and Zamazenta (plus Intimidate) and those seem fine for now.
Yes, but unlike normal Ogerpon, it isn’t hardwalled by Corviknight and actually has another STAB for offense. I don’t think anyone is using Terastalization on either Ogerpon or Ogerpon-Cornerstone for the defense/speed boost.
Like Skeledirge, Pecharunt is a bulky Ghost with access to both Curse and recovery, and STABs that threaten Dengo, Hat, Clef and Reuniclus. It also has Parting Shot to drop the opposition’s stats and shed its own teams’ negative afflictions, but taking it a step beyond is Malignant Chain, which will confuse anything it poisons.
Since confusion is Baton Passed, this can easily generate free turns for Pecharunt’s team and win games on the spot.
I think this is more of an issue with Curse, rather than Pecharunt. Trevenant can also use Curse and Toxic, and can actually deal damage against Steel switch-ins without using Curse, such as Excadrill, Corviknight, and Tinkaton, so I don’t exactly see why Pecharunt is broken while Trevenant is not. Furthermore, Parting Shot can be stopped by Clear Amulet (underrated imo, also stops Sticky Web + Intimidate and normal hazards hardly exist) and prediction Hatterenes. Pecharunt is also threatened by Hatterene and Gholdengo, and is hardwalled by Garganacl (which kinda sucks but it still has Iron Defense).
Meanwhile, Curse is problematic because you will almost always deal at least 50% of HP to the opponent’s Pokemon in total (initial Curse damage + Curse damage on pivoter) making up for the 50% of HP you lose. The only way to stop Curse from doing any damage is Magic Guard, which is limited to Reuniclus because Clefable is always running Unaware. Furthermore, the you can also set up or attack the opponent while they are trying to stop the Curse, forcing them to decide whether to stop you from setting up and get heavily chipped by Curse or eliminate Curse and potentially get swept. Curse should be placed on the watchlist, not Pecharunt.
I think this is more of an issue with Curse, rather than Pecharunt. Trevenant can also use Curse and Toxic, and can actually deal damage against Steel switch-ins without using Curse, such as Excadrill, Corviknight, and Tinkaton, so I don’t exactly see why Pecharunt is broken while Trevenant is not. Furthermore, Parting Shot can be stopped by Clear Amulet (underrated imo, also stops Sticky Web + Intimidate and normal hazards hardly exist) and prediction Hatterenes. Pecharunt is also threatened by Hatterene and Gholdengo, and is hardwalled by Garganacl (which kinda sucks but it still has Iron Defense).
Meanwhile, Curse is problematic because you will almost always deal at least 50% of HP to the opponent’s team in total (initial Curse damage + Curse damage on pivoter) making up for the 50% of HP you lose. The only way to stop Curse from doing any damage is Magic Guard, which is limited to Reuniclus because Clefable is always running Unaware. Furthermore, the you can also set up or attack the opponent while they are trying to stop the Curse, forcing them to decide whether to stop you from setting up and get heavily chipped by Curse or eliminate Curse and potentially get swept. Curse should be placed on the watchlist, not Pecharunt.
There are a few problems with this.
Firstly is that as a Pokemon as a whole, Pecharunt is way better than Trevenant. I think Trevenant has a good niche being the only Ghost type with Ingrain so it can pass that without much trouble. However, Pecharunt is OU and top tier OU at that for a reason. It's way bulkier, has better forms of recovery, Pivoting is still also great of an option, and can offensively pressure Magic Guard users with its STABs and still confuses them too.
As far as Curse users get, Pecharunt and Skeledirge are the best because of their bulk, and defensive and offensive utility. It's not really comparable to likes of Dragapult using Curse, which would be a fine option but is significantly more manageable.
Secondly is the math is wrong.
2 turns of Curse is obviously not 50% of the while team's HP pool. It is actually like 8.33% of your opponent's HP pool (0.5 / 6). You're also doing that to yourself as well. You take 50% of your own Pokemon's health to use Curse.
Let's also not forget about Regenerator, Gholdegno, Taunt, offensive pressure, simply healing with recover, etc. There is more counterplay than just Magic Guard and it's not one of those "Just use Aerial Ace!" type of deals either.
I say this but it's incredibly ironic as I just made a team centered around Trevenant and Curse.
The idea of this teams is the so called Big Heal in order to negate most of Curse's drawback and making each Pokemon hard to kill. You have multiple sources of passive healing, almost everything gets Recover, and we even have Wish passing too.
Trevenant's roll is to set Leech Seed, set Ingrain, and to also block the opponent from healing off Curse/Leech Seed/Toxic damage. Ingrain normally prevents the user from manually switching, but with Ghost typing and non-Ghosts having Shed Shell, this isn't such a problem. It then means that you can't be phased the entire game.
Alomomola's roles are to set Aqua Ring (hopefully stacking with Ingrain), Flip Turn when needed, pass Wish, and also pivot around decently strong moves and healing even more with Regenerator.
Gholdengo is Gholdengo. You can just slap it on a team with Splash and no EVs and it'd still be valuable (I mean probably not, but still). It's a Curse, Perish Song, Taunt, Clear Smog, Toxic, Malignant Chain, Whirlwind, Parting Shot, Switcheroo, etc. denier. Ghost/Steel is amazing defensively. It can easily pass Substitute. You also run Thunder Wave because Paralysis is a stupid mechanic when timers are in play and because lots of Pokemon on the team use Hex.
Pecharunt is a strong bulky Curse user. Pretty much see above.
Skeledirge is the counter to set up teams as well as Clefable. It's a Clefablegambit in a way. If Clefable is Unaware, use Curse. If Clefable is Magic Guard, spam Torch Song. There isn't any way for Clefable to really win against Skeledirge unless it has 20 boosts with Stored Power.
Lastly is Weezing-Galar. Weezing-Galar fits just like the glove fits OJ Simpson. There are 4 Ghosts on this team, so it desperately needs a Fairy type. This Fairy type also just so happens to have Neutralizing Gas, Defog, and Haze. So you can Defog on Gholdengo and Contrary Pokemon since their abilities are disabled. It's funnily another Clefable answer as it disables Magic Guard and Unaware. Haze is a good alternative for fighting stat boosting teams to make sure Focus Energy and Stored Power don't get out of hand. And as a bonus, Weezing does learn Stockpile.
Btw, Stockpile being passed removes the limit, so you can Stockpile 3 times, switch, then Stockpile again so you have a Psuedo Cosmic Power. It's a great option for this team which is about survivability.
Unfortunately it heavily relies on its teammates to heal, but it's not that big of a team since you heal so much.
There are a few problems with this.
Firstly is that as a Pokemon as a whole, Pecharunt is way better than Trevenant. I think Trevenant has a good niche being the only Ghost type with Ingrain so it can pass that without much trouble. However, Pecharunt is OU and top tier OU at that for a reason. It's way bulkier, has better forms of recovery, Pivoting is still also great of an option, and can offensively pressure Magic Guard users with its STABs and still confuses them too.
As far as Curse users get, Pecharunt and Skeledirge are the best because of their bulk, and defensive and offensive utility. It's not really comparable to likes of Dragapult using Curse, which would be a fine option but is significantly more manageable.
The issue with Pecharunt is that it cannot heal while using Curse simultaneously, leaving it vulnerable to offensive moves. While Trevenant can simply use Curse and have 75% HP to tank a hit, Pecharunt will only have 50% HP left. Furthermore, Trevenant benefits much more from being able to use Protect, somewhat acting like Gliscor and preventing Choiced Pokemon (rare, but Pokemon like Dragapult have decent coverage) from immediately KOing Pokemon due to a wrong prediction. Pecharunt's typing also makes it weak to Stored Power, while Trevenant can decently wall Ogerpon-Wellspring unless it is running Knock Off.
Treating this metagame similar to OU is not correct. Many popular OU Pokemon are nowhere to be seen, and I'd argue Pecharunt actually fares somewhat worse in this metagame. The rise of Excadrill (threatens Clefable and Hatterene), Iron Crown, Hatterene, Corviknight, Dragapult, Gholdengo, Okidogi, Muk-Alola, etc, and the near disappearance of Cinderace, Dragonite, Gliscor, Iron Valiant, Moltres, Zamazenta, etc means Pecharunt has much fewer targets now for walling and takes much more supereffective damage.
Let's also not forget about Regenerator, Gholdegno, Taunt, offensive pressure, simply healing with recover, etc. There is more counterplay than just Magic Guard and it's not one of those "Just use Aerial Ace!" type of deals either.
Nobody is running 2 Regenerator Pokemon on their team, "offensive pressure" is vague and can definitely be prepared for, healing moves only delay the effects of Curse, but Taunt (can be outplayed but is one of the best moves in the tier) and Gholdengo are valid.
The issue with Pecharunt is that it cannot heal while using Curse simultaneously, leaving it vulnerable to offensive moves. While Trevenant can simply use Curse and have 75% HP to tank a hit, Pecharunt will only have 50% HP left. Furthermore, Trevenant benefits much more from being able to use Protect, somewhat acting like Gliscor and preventing Choiced Pokemon (rare, but Pokemon like Dragapult have decent coverage) from immediately KOing Pokemon due to a wrong prediction. Pecharunt's typing also makes it weak to Stored Power, while Trevenant can decently wall Ogerpon-Wellspring unless it is running Knock Off.
Treating this metagame similar to OU is not correct. Many popular OU Pokemon are nowhere to be seen, and I'd argue Pecharunt actually fares somewhat worse in this metagame. The rise of Excadrill (threatens Clefable and Hatterene), Iron Crown, Hatterene, Corviknight, Dragapult, Gholdengo, Okidogi, Muk-Alola, etc, and the near disappearance of Cinderace, Dragonite, Gliscor, Iron Valiant, Moltres, Zamazenta, etc means Pecharunt has much fewer targets now for walling and takes much more supereffective damage.
I misspoke.
Nobody is running 2 Regenerator Pokemon on their team, "offensive pressure" is vague and can definitely be prepared for, healing moves only delay the effects of Curse, but Taunt (can be outplayed but is one of the best moves in the tier) and Gholdengo are valid.
Pecharunt even at half health is still pretty capable of tanking hits from more passive Pokemon and from resists.
0 Atk Clodsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 114-134 (30 - 35.2%) -- 20.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt on a critical hit: 76-90 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Ogerpon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 134-158 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 76-91 (20 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Pecharunt being so bulky means it can easily pull off Curse better than most other Ghost types. That’s why Pecharunt and Skeledirge might be considered more problematic, since they are more easily capable of cursing multiple times.
To elaborate more on counterplay.
Gholdengo blocks Curse entirely, so obviously switch in to prevent it.
If you get Cursed, you can switch to a Pokemon like Slowking or Alomomola and pivot out, negating that Curse damage entirely on those Pokemon, only taking 25% on 1 Pokemon.
Offensive pressure is just making sure the Curse abuser isn’t healthy enough to Curse or dies after using Curse. There are many ways to do this and its way easier when the Curse user is frail.
Pecharunt even at half health is still pretty capable of tanking hits from more passive Pokemon and from resists.
0 Atk Clodsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 114-134 (30 - 35.2%) -- 20.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt on a critical hit: 76-90 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Ogerpon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 134-158 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 76-91 (20 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Yes, except besides Ogerpon (you calculated it with Grass Ivy Cudgel, by the way 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt on a critical hit: 184-217 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO), neither Clodsire nor Corviknight actually wants to stay in and attack Pecharunt (maybe Corviknight if U-Turn). If they do stay in and attack, Pecharunt's health then dips down to around 25% if it uses Curse, which is extremely vulnerable to future attacks as the opponent will always use an offensive move to damage Pecharunt the next time it is sent in. Meanwhile, if Trevenant's health goes low, it has a much easier time switching in and using Protect to potentially have Harvest heal it.
https://pokepast.es/65f18ad20584f523 I topped the ladder yesterday with this team albeit some minor differences. I don't particularly think this is a finished team but I was told to write about it here. Genties and Ladlemen, I present to you:
Brambleghast came to mind immediately while reading the description of the new OM. Having access to both leech seed and ghost type curse is a great boon. Brambleghast on it's own always suffers from 4MSS but here it can serve as a great utility mon in a pinch with whatever your team may be lacking. 252 Atk evs for hard hitting Poltergeists and maximum leech seed recovery.
Hacks-a-mole (Excadrill) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 Atk / 244 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Throat Chop
Excadrill was the latest edition but proved to be essential for switching into ghosts like Gholdengo and Pecharunt. The only actual spinner on the team, it has to be a good one. Assault Vest was a no brainer as you really wanted to have all the attacks you can while still being able to take hits naturally. The only move that might not be self-explanatory is Throat Chop which is by far the most useful. It prevents Pecharunt from using parting shot, Skeledirge from using Torch Song, and any assortment of things using Perish Song.
Pinkachu (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Stored Power
I still haven't figured out the best 4 moves for this guy. I would prefer wish to benefit the team but slotting Protect or both Wish & Moonlight is a real challenge. A fat fairy type with Unaware can never be bad though, in this instance Clef prioritizes being kept healthy in order to pass and or receive boosts from teammates. Clef can sweep on it's own so just keep that it mind when going all in on another sweeper.
Spinny Martyr (Great Tusk) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 192 HP / 4 Atk / 60 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
All purpose flour. Lead, sweeper, utility, pivot, wall. Whatever you need, give him a call. Just move some letters around and scroll the bars a tad next to the cool little red and green lines and you'll be a'ight.
I wanna use chomp but I guess the meta isn't kind to it rn but I still wanna use it. Any suggestion to make this team better (factors: Replace anything/anyone except chomp)
P.S I wanna do balance/HO but I don't know how :")
Perish trap plus Eject Button seems strong to me. If you didn’t know, Eject Button cancels the effects of U-Turn/Volt Switch/Flip Turn, so it lets you shut down the counterplay to Perish Song and get an easy trap.
Example sequence: Murkrow clicks Perish Song, (Perish count 3) and U-turns out into Eject Button user (Perish count 2 for opponent only) which clicks Protect (Perish count 1). Now if the opponent has switched in their pivot user and clicked U-turn, the switch effect is negated by Eject Button and they die to Perish Song.
It’s a bit complicated but hopefully you get the idea. Eject Button effect works like a manual switch, so there are lots of other use cases like safe switchin to your sweeper. It’s an interesting item, so I hope it gets explored more :)
Fire team. Throat Chop is some ingenious tech from behind a sub! Infiltrator is also a top tier ability for disrupting things behind subs.
Mold Breaker Excadrill is a premier sweeper for the format. Wouldn’t Tera Electric be better though? Then it can beat both Dondozo and Corviknight, while still beating Clefable, Clodsire and Skeledirge,
I wanna use chomp but I guess the meta isn't kind to it rn but I still wanna use it. Any suggestion to make this team better (factors: Replace anything/anyone except chomp)
P.S I wanna do balance/HO but I don't know how :")
Ok, this is going to sound really silly, but I think there is validity in putting Dragon Tail or Roar on Garchomp along side Swords Dance. Replace Outrage with Dragon Tail and make it Tera Ground to Super STAB your way through Clefable and Hatterene,
Or otherwise, fit Iron Head on there somewhere with Tera steel for the same effect, but I think Ground is better since Clef likes to Tera-Steel. Then it works as an anti-chain measure, especially with Spikes. >:)
As far as balance goes, good old def rocks Landorus-T and Glimmora are doing great work high ladder, and Kingambit really mus into this meta well, since Supreme Overlord still bypasses Unaware, and it’s immune to Sttored Power/Resists Power Trip, Sucker Punch beats sweepers, etc,
Also, Aqua Ring Alo + Spikes Whirlwind Ting-Lu is a core that just. Won’t. Die.
Perish trap plus Eject Button seems strong to me. If you didn’t know, Eject Button cancels the effects of U-Turn/Volt Switch/Flip Turn, so it lets you shut down the counterplay to Perish Song and get an easy trap.
This is really interesting! I forgot about this eject button interaction with U-Turn and it’s definitely creative in tandem with Perish Song. Besides, Rain Offense isn’t a slow boiling strat. it gets right to work. I like it,
I would love to see some replays in action. How has this team been fairing on ladder?
Fire team. Throat Chop is some ingenious tech from behind a sub! Infiltrator is also a top tier ability for disrupting things behind subs.
Mold Breaker Excadrill is a premier sweeper for the format. Wouldn’t Tera Electric be better though? Then it can beat both Dondozo and Corviknight, while still beating Clefable, Clodsire and Skeledirge,
Ok, this is going to sound really silly, but I think there is validity in putting Dragon Tail or Roar on Garchomp along side Swords Dance. Replace Outrage with Dragon Tail and make it Tera Ground to Super STAB your way through Clefable and Hatterene,
Or otherwise, fit Iron Head on there somewhere with Tera steel for the same effect, but I think Ground is better since Clef likes to Tera-Steel. Then it works as an anti-chain measure, especially with Spikes. >:)
As far as balance goes, good old def rocks Landorus-T and Glimmora are doing great work high ladder, and Kingambit really mus into this meta well, since Supreme Overlord still bypasses Unaware, and it’s immune to Sttored Power/Resists Power Trip, Sucker Punch beats sweepers, etc,
Also, Aqua Ring Alo + Spikes Whirlwind Ting-Lu is a core that just. Won’t. Die.
This is really interesting! I forgot about this eject button interaction with U-Turn and it’s definitely creative in tandem with Perish Song. Besides, Rain Offense isn’t a slow boiling strat. it gets right to work. I like it,
I would love to see some replays in action. How has this team been fairing on ladder?
Tera Electric Drill sounds interesting, I was running tera grass just because I don’t have a move to hit Woger so it needs all the defensive help it can get.
Both Sandwiches42 (aka Benny Wells) and InkyDarkBird have demonstrated early meta knowledge, teambuilding and player skill by reaching high ladder rankings, as well as a good amount of community engagement both here and on Discord. I’m happy to have them join us on the tiering council. I have no doubt their experience and skill will prove invaluable for the dubious task of shaping and balancing this OM.
Balancing Approach
This format allows for exploration of elements of Pokemon many of us haven’t seen in competitive play, in a long time, if not ever. The potential for experimentation and player expression is immense, and I want to encourage that.
Understand, we need to take our time with tiering. Everything is new, everyone is adapting to everyone else. There is a LOT of tech and strats to sort through, and we have to consider how one ban can cascade into many other elements breaking and the meta unraveling. For instance, Skeledirge is great in this format by virtue of being a strong option against Gholdengo and Substitute, and having Unaware and self boosting while attacking with Torch Song, so banning it for being strong would only serve to make Substitute and Gholdengo even better. Yet I cannot even begin to entertain banning either Gholdengo or Substitute in response to banning Skeledirge, as these are core stabilizing elements that allow this meta to even be in a playable state.
In short, balancing is like playing whack-a-mole and this format has a lot at play. Be chill. We’re discussing what to address next and will get a survey going soon to see how everyone’s feeling about the meta.
I know it’s like the Wild West out there, but I hope you’re finding it fun regardless. I know I am!
Having said that, here’s some absolutely uncontroversial cancer that I have zero qualms about casting aside:
Acupressure has been banned!
The results of our council’s first tiering action vote are in!
Skeledirge (screw this Pokemon jeez) and Ogerpon-Wellspring are both oppressively devastating sweepers. Skeledirge can easily ramp up boosts while outputting ridiculous damage at the same time, being able to defeat Clefable in a 1v1 with Wisp + Hex and threaten other prominent Pokemon such as Gholdengo, Hatterene, Excadrill, Slowking(-Galar), Corviknight, etc. Because if this, if you don't bring a Pokemon that can directly counter/check Skeledirge, you will eventually lose as the opponent racks up speed or defensive boosts on the Skeledirge and mindlessly spams Torch Song to OHKO your Pokemon.
Ogerpon-Wellspring is probably healthier, but only because it uses more utility moves and is therefore less prominent of a sweeper. However, having the 3rd fastest Focus Energy with Water Absorb to stop Alomomola paired with Taunt, Encore, Leech Seed, Swords Dance, and Ivy Cudgel makes it an actual nightmare to stop, being able to OHKO multiple Pokemon using Terastalization before dying itself. In addition, its synergy with Mold Breakers such as Excadrill can instantly annihilate stall.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable on a critical hit: 246-289 (62.4 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene on a critical hit: 217-256 (68.2 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 195-229 (48.8 - 57.3%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9relayrace-2336303304
These issues are amplified by Terastalization. Due to the fact that almost nobody runs Choice Scarf or offensive priority moves in this metagame, there is almost zero counterplay if your check is defeated by a Terastalized sweeper. Furthermore, I don't think Terastalization can be easily predicted just by looking at an opponent's team because this is a new metagame, so viability shifts create new Pokemon interactions, and Pokemon that were previously just walls can be turned into sweepers or utility Pokemon, such as Skeledirge and Kommoo-o.
Terastal Clause was always going to be a community driven debate for this format. We've seen how it works in standard metas. Same deal here, it’s probably not broken, but it sure can be volatile and annoying to deal with.
Within Relay Race, Tera has some interesting use cases, such as:
Tera Dark on Unaware mons to deny Stored Power users on stat chains
Tera Fairy to deny Dragon Tail
Tera Ghost to use Curse and deny Rapid Spin-speed boost passing
Tera Grass to deny Leech Seed
Tera Ogerpon to have auto boosts on entry
Tera Stellar Serperior for dual attack boosts
Tera Super STAB to break defensively boosted mons
Of course, all these elements also exist in standard play, they’re just heightened by Baton Pass. On the flip side, Tera often runs in parallel to our unique Baton Pass mechanic, rather than highlighting it. From this perspective, you could argue Tera distracts from our core premise, which if true is something I think we should avoid.
I think I am not alone in saying this meta feels
matchup dependent and overwhelming, especially from a balancing standpoint. A vote to ban Tera is a vote for stability, and that is something I can support.
At this time Terastal Clause will be added to the watchlist.
I would like to see lots of conversation on the merits of keeping Tera vs banning it.
-------
Also, funny meta quirk discovery!
Eject Pack and Eject Button also activate Baton Pass.
This has all kinds of interesting meta ramifications, for one-time momentum as the cost of an item slot, on top of pivoting with attacking moves like Draco Meteor, Overheat, Make It Rain, Close Combat, etc. at the price of also eating the drop on the next mon to hit the field, while maintaining other boosts.
Perish trap plus Eject Button seems strong to me. If you didn’t know, Eject Button cancels the effects of U-Turn/Volt Switch/Flip Turn, so it lets you shut down the counterplay to Perish Song and get an easy trap.
Example sequence: Murkrow clicks Perish Song, (Perish count 3) and U-turns out into Eject Button user (Perish count 2 for opponent only) which clicks Protect (Perish count 1). Now if the opponent has switched in their pivot user and clicked U-turn, the switch effect is negated by Eject Button and they die to Perish Song.
It’s a bit complicated but hopefully you get the idea. Eject Button effect works like a manual switch, so there are lots of other use cases like safe switchin to your sweeper. It’s an interesting item, so I hope it gets explored more :)
The first replay is nightmare matchup versus U-turn + Shed Tail Cyclizar, I had to bait out the substitute and then Eject Button trap to get rid of it. After that the endgame was winning. Second replay is a more typical matchup vs offense.
The first replay is nightmare matchup versus U-turn + Shed Tail Cyclizar, I had to bait out the substitute and then Eject Button trap to get rid of it. After that the endgame was winning. Second replay is a more typical matchup vs offense.
Oof. That first game only lasted as long as it did because the opponent was running both U-Turn and Shed Tail on Cyclizar, which many people will not do, The second game showcases how devastating this much more quickly.
You could argue this showcases how broken Perish Song is, but that’s a separate issue.
Eject Button is its own issue here, especially with the revelation discovered above that it transfers boosts too. You do not need to use Eject Button in tandem with Perish Song. While Perish Song is the most efficient way to exploit it, the pivot blocking effect also can be used in tandem with Curse, Leech Seed, Gastro Acid, stat drops, anything.
Having counterplay to stop U-Turn itself is unambiguously unhealthy in this format.
Adding to the pile:
Eject Button
Prima and Mel are being removed from watchlist, and Perish Song is being added, as PS is the common problematic entity to them, and Murkrow as well.
Perish Song
If you want something added, please speak up and if you have a case to make do so.
——————
Building the next voting slate
The next slate currently reads:
Clauses
Terastal Clause
Pokémon
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Skeledirge
Moves
Perish Song
——————
Regarding the current watch list exclusions of Clefable, Teal Ogerpon, Percharunt, Focus Energy, Belly Drum and Eject Button and why we will not be voting on them at this time:
A potential ban on Tera and Stored Power nerf Clef and Oger. Both would be far more manageable without these elements.
Base Ogerpon seems less oppressive than Wellspring, and is currently underexpored as Wellspring is the preferred option due to Water Absorb being great at denying Flip Turn, on top of having a Water STAB.
The greatest recipients of Belly Drum are the Mold Breakers like Excadrill and Haxorus who can override Unaware (lacking Ability Shield) and benefit greatly from Tera’s increased coverage.
Focus Energy would lose its best user in Wellspring if banned, and I would like to wait to assess it until after that.
Eject Button will be assessed after Perish Song is addressed. It may still be a problem because it stops U-Turn which is core counterplay to Perish Song, but also Curse, Leech Seed, Gastro Acid and stat drops.
Pecharunt I simply do not feel strongly on yet, as its Poison/Confusion can be blocked by Steels and Subs, but if someone thinks it should be voted on at this point, I will consider it.
Edit: Stored Power and Power Trip will not be voted on at this point, as the slate seems a bit bloated to assess them properly right now. Also, their results are falling and losing Tera would be a mixed bag for full chain teams.
Ehhh I don’t think Eject Button warrents looking at.
You consume it after a Pokemon uses U-Turn or any attacking move, and then you can’t block U-turn after that. Since Perish Song is more immediate in its threat than Curse, Leech Seed, or Gastro Acid, it makes sense why it might be busted for Perish Song teams. However it’s not that big of a deal if you can’t U-turn out one time against the other timers since they are more generous and can be stalled with healing anyways.
, 
, 
(
))
, 
, 
, (
))
, 
, 
)
, 
, 
): There are a small amount of viable mons with haze, and it is the most reliable way to bring an enemy chain to a halt, with the downside of stopping any boosts you may have. However it is susceptible to Taunt (unless your name is murkrow), so a very balanced and cool move overall.
, 
, 
): Trading the downside of removing your own stats, for it being negative priority, being even more susceptible to taunt, and potentially also to strong slow sweepers.
, 
): This feels wrong to put this here, but often perish song or Ghost curse forces a switch move, and a loss of boosts, rather than forcing a death. Same weaknesses as haze, but it also loses to gholdengo, and puts on more offensive pressure.
, 
): Technically weak to both sub and taunt, but if you get it off, you are in a fantastic position usually.
, 
): This is the most underrated move in the format. Only Steels are immune, and is very worth while as a 4th move slot on any mon who has access to it.
, 
, 
etc.): Old reliable is still here to pivot you out of a bad situation. The many U-turn users are fine, and actually encourage diverse strategies, rather than just set up or just stall, as the U-turn user is in control whether they keep or lose their stats.
, 
): Paradoxically, Volt switch just isn't seen near as often, because it's users usually like to pass or receive boosts. Definitely not a bad move, but not a must on the normal users of the move.
/
, 
): Also helpful pivoting moves for these mons in a pinch, not much else to say.
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Meloetta
Acupressure
Belly Drum
Focus Energy
I wanna use 
chomp but I guess the meta isn't kind to it rn but I still wanna use it. Any suggestion to make this team better (factors: Replace anything/anyone except 
Terastal Clause will be added to the watchlist.
Eject Button