Research Week #2: Shiftry, Ursaring, Klang and Rampardos

[skylight]

Introduction:

NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymonning. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". If you want to suggest something, send a forum Private Message to me. Also, Pokemon from past research weeks will be used again simply because the metagame has obviously changed since this project was last brought about.

The four Pokemon for this week (24/06/13 - 01/07/13):

Questions to consider when posting here:

How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused as well!

The Research Week Challenge:

• Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
• Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70.
• Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
• If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
• In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Week will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group (yes, I'm aware I'm c/ping this but I'm actually going to actively update the hub, so!)

Every one or two days during the week I'll post questions which I expect you guys to be involved in. If you have any questions about this project, feel free to send me a PM, otherwise just compete in the challenge, and actively post here too discussing the sets throughout the week. Remember that the NU mods keep an eye over everything even when they're asleep and you could get one step closer to earning CC if you actively post here and keep up discussion. n_n

 

[skylight]

Hall of Fame

Hide

Gold Class: 2000+

Shuckeking87 / shuckleking3 | 1953 | 90 | 2087 + 95

Silver Class: 1850-1999

atomicllamas / atomicllamas | 1785 | 81 | 1884 + 70
Othesemo / gcaesar | 1758 | 79 | 1852 + 67

Bronze Class: 1700-1849

 

[Cherub Agent]

This week has potential skylight!

I've already laddered to #2 with Klang, so I'm not gonna do it again. I can however already share my thoughts on it. I used the ResTalk set, which is one of the nastiest stallbreakers in the tier, in addition to utterly walling a massive amount of Pokemon in NU. Pokemon such as Swellow, Jynx (Focus Blast doesn't come close to OHKOing, while Klang can boost up on it, outspeed it after the boost and then OHKO with Gear Grind, and then Rest off the damage it took from Focus Blast) Skuntank, Serperior, Musharna, Kangaskhan, and tons more. Possibly pair it up with Toxic Spikes to allow it to beat Alomomola and Seismtoad, as well as Musharna or Misdreavus for Sawk and Gurdurr (it doesn't care about Primeape) and you're golden.

I think I'll use either one of Ursaring or Rampardos for this round of Research Week. Ursaring seems like a really fun sweeper to me with its Quick Feet set, and it can also stallbreak pretty well. It's a shame that Quick Feet is revenged by literylly any scarer, as well as Pokemon such as Swellow, Scolipede and Serperior...

Yeah I think I'll use Rampardos. I've always wanted to use the specially based set, and this seems like a great opportunity to do so!

 

[Othesemo]

I've already built teams around Ursaring and Shiftry before, so I think I'll try out Rampardos this week. With mold breaker and such high attack, he seems like he could be a very effective anti-lead. More later, once I've tested it out.

Oh, and I'll be laddering on GCaesar.

 

[Farobi]

Using Klang with the alt Greserg.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Will be using Ursaring and Klang.

 

[Punchshroom]

Having used all of the aforementioned pokemon at some point, I'm going to share my thoughts on them. I'm hiding this so as to not clog the page with walls of text and not spoil any new experiences for potential users.

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Klang is extremely one-dimensional, with Shift Gear and Gear Grind on every set you can find. However, that doesn't necessarily make it easy to stop, as it has the moves to bypass a good deal of counters. Substitute can be used to avoid status, Return for decent neutral coverage, and Wild Charge for Waters such as Alomomola that resist Gear Grind. As CherubAgent mentioned, Klang can run a mean RestTalk set, which Sleep Talk will pick a useful move 2/3 of the time and counters Jynx's Lovely Kiss. This grants it a lot of survivability and thus enough time to gear up for a sweep. The downsides are its pitiful coverage and need to setup, but otherwise it can be really solid, especially with its typing. Shift Gear works well in the faster, frailer metagame, and Gear Grind makes short work of Jynx's Subs too.

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Ursaring is also one-dimensional, you practically never see one without a status orb to take advantage of its abilities. The downside is that it cuts into Ursaring's survivability greatly and it can inadvertandly reveal its ability via its Orb (Quick Feet sets cannot use Flame Orb, while Guts prefers burn as opposed to Toxic so that its rampage isn't shortened). The obvious upside is that you have a monster Facade-spammer with powerful coverage options (unlike Swellow) and usable bulk, as well as packing fantastic power. However, Ursaring's low speed is a thorn in its side as numerous Choice Scarfers can outspeed it even factoring on Quick Feet, whereas Guts sets are outsped by most anything remotely offensive. There's also the issue that Ursaring must chooise between Quick Feet and Guts; Swellow, Zangoose and even Raticate (lol) can afford Guts while still being fast, while Ursaring must sacrifice Gut's power boost to keep up, leaving its coverage options unboosted, enough for Close Combat and Crunch to miss out on KOs against Golem, Piloswine, Golurk and Misdreavus respectively.

With all that said, Ursaring gets Swords Dance, which can turn the Quick Feet set into a powerful sweeping force and the Guts set the ability to, ahem, gut defensive teams. I feel Quick Feet is more meta-friendly because Ursaring can speed through the fast frail sweepers and demolish them even without the aid of Guts, but few can shit a defensive team's pants aside from a +2 Guts Ursaring.

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Rampardos is NU's glass cannon, its bone-breaking power offsetted by how easy it is to KO if you do manage to survive, or simply revenge kill it. Unfortunately for Rampardos, the latter option is much easier, and also much more common in Stage 9. While Rampardos could terrorize the then slower Stage 8 meta, Stage 9 really put Rampardos on the backburner as many players favored greater speed in exchange for raw power. The recent arrivals in Jynx and Scolipede were also "glass-cannons", only they are much more efficient and harder to stop, leaving Rampardos in the dust.

It is still a scary situation if you managed to give Rampardos a free turn to bash something's face in, and it certainly can with 165 base Attack. Moves such as Head Smash, Superpower, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, Crunch and Fire Punch hurt when coming from such a calibre of strength. Mold Breaker is useful in getting rid of SR leads, but Sawk does this much better thanks to STAB Fighting attacks. A much overlooked but very interesting option is a specially oriented set, which takes advantage of Sheer Force much better than the physical sets can (Rock Slide, Zen Headbutt, Crunch and Fire Punch are the only notable moves that get boosted). With moves such as Thunderbolt and Fire Blast getting a boost, pokemon that previously walled Rampardos, such as Tangela and Alomomola, get destroyed by super effective LO Sheer Force attacks, and special walls hoping to wall these attacks must still be wary off that 165 base Attack, which is still very strong even with no investment. However, I feel that the faster take on the meta, as well as Seismitoad's popularity, have greatly stunted Rampardos's potential as a wallbreaker.

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So I've left Shiftry for last, wanna know why? Because it is what I have the most to talk about. I mean, look at its movepool. For Grass STAB, it has Seed Bomb (most reliable), Giga Drain (offsets LO recoil and hits Alomo), Leaf Storm (wallbreaks) and Solarbeam (sun sweeping). For Dark STAB there's Sucker Punch (priority) and Dark Pulse (reliability). For set-up moves there's Sunny Day (Sun sweeping), Swords Dance (physical sweeping), Nasty Plot (special sweeping), and Substitute (status buffer). Coverage moves, oh boy. We have Nature Power, Hidden Power Fire (Sun), Focus Blast, Explosion, Rock Slide, X-Scissor, Low Kick, freakin' Icy Wind. Even the abilities are worth noting, Chlorphyll is obviously useful for Sun sweeping; Early Bird allows you to play mindgames with Jynx if you have Sucker Punch due to the chance of instantly waking up from Lovely Kiss even before a turn has passed, or be sleep fodder with a chance to spring right back into action; Pickpocket allows you to perform shenanigans with consumable items and rob items, though its defenses are kinda poor for that. Now tell me that Shiftry doesn't have potential.

Potential is one thing, but execution is another. I've no clue which Shiftry set performs best in the meta. Could a Substitute set, which works in tandem with Sucker Punch, blocks status and combats faster threats without relying on Sucker Punch, work? Or perhaps a wallbreaker set that can shrug off status and heal with Early Bird Rest? A Sun sweeper looks interesting, but what justifies its use over other Sun sweepers such as Victreebel, Exeggutor and Sawsbuck? Does Shiftry have the time to use Swords Dance or Nasty Plot? Would you even use Shiftry over Cacturne, who is stronger and can set up Spikes at the cost of lesser bulk and offensive movepool? It would be interesting to see what Shiftry can do in this meta.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I've used both Shiftry and Cacturne in this meta, and to be honest, I was a little disappointed with what Shiftry had to offer when compared to Cacturne. Cacturne is much more powerful and I could afford to run a Lum Berry to beat Jynx and other status users. After a boost, Cacturne is very difficult to stop between Seed Bomb, Sucker Punch and Drain Punch for recovery. I've even run a Life Orb and Focus Sash set each with great success, and the switchin opportunities on Water-types are just amazing. Shiftry on the other hand is way less powerful and I find myself continually turning to Lifw Orb to make up for the lack in power, and more often than not I've missed the power that Cacturne brought. Maybe it's because I've only tried the Swords Dance set, but I'd love to know from those laddering with Shiftry, which set was the most effective, and what sets Shiftry apart from Cacturne?

If I eventually bother, I'd like to try out Ursaring in this meta

 

[Leafshield]

Well I'll be damned! I've used all these Pokémon at one time or other in PU, and haven't been disappointed by their raw power, ability to set up, and dangerous move pools that allow them to wreck teams with ease. But, as we all know, PU is vastly different from NU: the latter is much faster with stronger walls, much more powerful sweepers, and more focus on entry hazards. I'm very interested to see how Ursaring and Shiftry fare in this meta.

If I do get around to some testing, it will be under the alt Origin of Symmetry

 

[skylight]

I'm going to probably be using Rampardos or Klang most likely, but I'm going to post about my experiences with Shiftry beforehand & a few questions! I've found that Shiftry is amazing on a sun team while mixed (Nature Power is so strong + Dark Pulse + SolarBeam + HP Fire), however I feel like outside of sun it doesn't really shine that much anymore. I mean under sun it's still pretty slow, and I feel like it was better off in Stage 8 when the Psychic-types were much slower so Shiftry actually stood a chance. But still, in sun, under the right circumstances, it's amazing from my experiences. In this current metagame I honestly wouldn't use it because I feel like it has less to offer compared to other Pokemon unless in a dedicated sun team. What do you guys think about this? Is Shiftry's only niche being a sun sweeper? Do you think it has other uses outside that? Or is it just wasting a slot for something else that could be better? What are its positives? Like the Speed could definitely be better. Oh and which do you think it's better at - running physical, special or mixed sets? Feel free to reply to this either before or after you've tested it~

 

[Magical Magmortar]

I'll be testing Ursaring with the alt Vanilla Magic2! Ursaring looks really cool as a status absorber with Quick Feet. It still seems pretty slow after Quick Feet. Ursaring is a really interesting Pokemon and it will be fun testing it out!

 

[Celever]

I'm going to try shiftry outside of sun, the coverage given by hurricane and grass cover eachother well. I might just try and use Ninjask to pass some speed to him like last time with Camerupt. I will also be trying specially attacking, like I said with hurricane.

Edit: It doesn't learn hurricane. What the hell? Come on nintendo. :(

My core

Shiftry @ Expert Belt
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch
- Nature Power

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Sunny Day
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor

 

[Othesemo]

I've already built teams around Ursaring and Shiftry before, so I think I'll try out Rampardos this week. With mold breaker and such high attack, he seems like he could be a very effective anti-lead. More later, once I've tested it out.

Oh, and I'll be laddering on GCaesar.

It turns out that (physical) Rampardos is actually kinda terrible in this meta. Sure, he looks nice on paper, but he's so frail that just about any hit will KO him, and his using his STAB against just about anything will cut nearly half of his health. I'm inclined to agree with Punchshroom- in a slower meta, he could be useful, but the current offensive bent which everyone is taking after leaves him in the dust. He's also useless as a Stealth Rock setter- dunno why the smogon page suggests the move.

I am interested in a special set, so I might try that out some time. For now, however, I'm switching my focus over to Shiftry. I'm going to be testing out a set I theorymoned a while ago- essentially, a Shiftry utilizing the same strategy as Bisharp up in UU. Here's the set-

Shiftry @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb

 

[Punchshroom]

I suggest Early Bird as the ability so you can combat Jynx, who thinks she can dodge your Sucker Punch by Lovely Kissing you only for you to (hopefully) wake right back up to Sucker Punch her when she tries to kill you. This turns into insane mindgames if the Jynx has Sub, but hey, at least Shiftry doesn't automatically lose if it mispredicts a Sucker Punch straight into Lovely Kiss due to the possible insta-wake.

 

[ebeast]

Make sure you don't ignore Shiftry, it's actually one of the coolest mons to use in the current meta. With the meta being offensive, its attacks just shit on everything and it also has access to Sucker Punch for faster Pokemon and Explosion to lure in special walls like Roselia, Lickilicky, and Regice to free up the field for partners. It can break walls and give offense trouble at the same time, which is what makes it legit.

Best set:

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Trait: Early Bird
EVs: 56 Atk / 244 SpA / 208 Spe
Rash Nature (-SpD,+SpA)
- Leaf Storm
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Explosion / Nature Power

Leaf Storm and Dark Pulse literally destroy anything that comes in, with Leaf Storm straight OHKOing Pokemon like Kangaskhan. Dark Pulse is a good complement to Leaf Storm, hitting Poison types that resist it such as Garbodor and Scolipede. Sucker Punch allows it to hit faster offensive Pokemon as well as potentially finish off Pokemon who lived a Leaf Storm or Dark Pulse. Explosion allows Shiftry to lure KO special walls so that other partners can take advantage of it, but Nature Power can be used as well to immediately threaten Skuntank and Probopass. It's not needed as Skuntank still takes a large chunk from Leaf Storm and do much to stop Shiftry from switching out and doing it again later. Probopass isn't common at all and Nature Power is still a 3HKO vs Metang, so it isn't needed for that either.

I honestly don't recommend either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot on Shiftry. It's really hard to set up and not worth the reward once you manage to do so. Reasons for EVs in another post of mine down below.

 

[Punchshroom]

Is max speed honestly optimal on Shiftry? Since it has Sucker Punch, the only threats it should be outspeeding naturally would be Samurott, Ludicolo and Seismitoad (or Kingler), and can put some EVs into Attack for extra bite in its priority and suicide / special wall breaking move. Since Shiftry would be EVed to outspeed max neutral base 75s (basically Kingler or offensive Garbo <- lol) or 74 (Seismitoad), the only things it would miss out on are Watchog and Vanilluxe, which are non-factors. Most of the max neutral base 80s aren't positive matchups for Shiftry regardless, so it's not worth speedtying them to hit them with a move other than Sucker Punch.

 

[ebeast]

I looked over its EVs and another possibly EV spread it can use is: 56 Atk / 244 SpA / 208 Spe with Rash. 208 Spe outspeeds max Speed Modest Seismitoad and still outspeeds Modest Colo and Samurott. The main thing that the 56 Atk EVs gets that 4 Atk doesn't is more damage vs Scarf Zard with Sucker Punch.

• 56 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 146-173 (49.15 - 58.24%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 4 Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 138-164 (46.46 - 55.21%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So yeah this looks like it's worth it, I'll edit my above post.

 

[Ashley11]

Rampardos: Rampardos hasn't really impressed me in the past for the reasons above. It's special set is decent but not too great since its still really slow and fragile. I honestly would only use it as a wallbreaker.

Shiftry: It's been ages since I've used shiftry So I don't know how viable it is in this meta right now. I'm going to use it this week for sure to see how it performs.

Klang: Klang has never been too appealing to me and I have never tried it. If I ever get convinced I might use it XD. I just think its coverage is terrible and it loses to some important things to beat as a physical sweeper like tangela and alomomola(wish protect stall while Klang gets wore down by wild charge.)

Ursaring: never really tried this guy too much on a serious team so I will try it as a wallbreaker and sweeper this week. It seems very powerful but it's very slow even with the quick feet boost. It seems like it would work well against a stall team, or perhaps somehow pass some speed boosts from ninjask to it.

I like this week for the most part, I am going to try laddering soon. I will post more about my results later!

 

[atomicllamas]

I am interested in trying out Shiftry for research week if I have time, I think I will try an e-belt mixed set to fake a choice item and lure in certain mons (ie Alomomola on nature power, only to nail it with giga drain). I feel like this could open up some holes for a fast sweeper at the end like a life orb Zeb, or swords dance Scoli. Will edit with alt and set when I am ready.

Edit: I am using atomicllamas as my alt because apparently I hadn't played any NU before today on it.

I decided to try something even crazier (dumber?) and use this set for teh lolz/to screw with opposing teams strategy.

Shiftry @ Grass Gem
Pick Pocket
EVs: 48 Atk/244 SpA/216 Spe
Rash Nature
-Dark Pulse
-Leaf Storm
-Nature Power
-Sucker Punch

The idea is to bluff a choice set until you need to use a super powerful leaf storm, since your opponent likely thinks you are a special attacker and will switch, you can steal their item with sucker punch or prevent set up with nature power. So far it has worked okay, I will report back with more/if I decide to try something more standard later.

Edit 2: I lost a game because someone's quick claw activated 3 times in a row, and another to 3 crits in a row, I may change alts -_-

Edit 3: The Results

I got to a rank of 1884 +/- 70 (glicko2) with Shiftry and tried multiple sets to see what worked. The pickpocket set I used was a pretty cool lure, but if you use it you should definitely opt for either Chlorophyll or Early Bird, as pick pocket has shitty mechanics. But I wanted to try something different, and try a pure special attacker set.

Shiftry @life orb
Early Bird
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Icy Wind
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power Fighting
-Dark Pulse

The idea was to force a switch and use icy wind to so you could (hopefully) outspeed the switch in and hit it with a super effective move as Shiftry has awesome coverage. This set is horrible, Shiftry's typing forces less switches than you'd think even though it has six resistances and an immunity. This is because it is really frail and has six weaknesses including ice, fighting, and bug which are everywhere in NU as they are really good STABs/coverage moves. Any set without sucker punch on it is actually impossibly dumb.

The final set I tried again attempted to capitalize on forcing switches/using defensive mons as set up.

Shiftry @leftovers
Early Bird
40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Substitute
-Sucker Punch
-Seed Bomb
-Toxic/Nature Power

This set was okay, setting up a sub on a choice locked mon and then forcing a sucker punch was kind of cool, or using toxic on Alomomola to open up a Kanga sweep. The problem I found when I used toxic though, is that you are literally unable to damage the multitude of poison types in NU so I switched to nature power. I often found myself wishing that I could use toxic though after it switched out (4mss so bad).

In spite of achieving the silver ranking in this challenge with Shiftry, I would not recommend using Shiftry on anything other than a dedicated sun team. Honestly, revenge killing something with sucker punch was a good game for Shitree Shiftry. Its base 80 speed is not relevant at all in the current meta and it's 90/60/60 defenses aren't doing it any favors. I often felt that I was playing with only 5 mons when using Shiftry :/. It is completely outclassed by Cacturne with a much higher attack (and special attack) stat, better ability, and spikes. Remember speed doesn't matter when you rely on sucker punch and there are very few offensive mons between 55 and 80 base speed anyway.

As an example I was accidentally using a focus sash Kadabra with no speed investment (it was in HP by accident -_-, and I literally didn't notice until my last match) and it performed better than Shiftry, keep that in mind. Shiftry is usable in the current meta outside of a sun team, but not useful.

To answer Vivillon's other question Mixed/Physical sets are best, as the only Shiftry worth using is the one with sucker punch.

 

[skylight]

Just posting to say that this'll be extended for another 3 days, assuming Smogon doesn't go down, etc. However, I know some of you guys have laddered with these Pokemon, so feel free to post about your experiences with those, or answer the questions already posted here. I'll post stuff later since I had stuff I was working on to post here just before Smogon went down.

 

[InsaneDragoniteHD]

Having used only like one of the mons on here, I am going to give my opinion on the ones I have used at least once.

When it comes To Ursaring, what I see is that is best to be running with the guts set, because you need that boost that comes from the toxic. Also, there is the quick feet set, which I honestly don't know how effective that is in the NU metagame. When it comes to his usefulness in NU, I would say that he is useful in the regard that you can do massive damage to many of the mons that aren't ghost types or resist normal, but he is shut down by scarfers like Sawk and Primeape, which often carry CC to deal with those pesky normal types that roam the tier. Ursaring also gets access to CC, which allows it to attack those various types like Steel and Rock that resist it main stab, Facade.

Also, as for what it does better than other mons is that it has a better attack stat than Swellow, allowing it to hit harder for more damage. Also, minus the speed, all its stats are well rounded, so that is a good thing to have on an offensive mon. Also, with that base 75 defense, it has better bulk for an offensive mon, allowing Ursaring to at least live a hit that is oriented toward it. To add to that, there is the lack of good walls that are able to resist and counter guts Ursaring in this current meta, meaning that it can really wreck the tier.

I plan on using Klang,Rampardos, and Shiftry, as I have never used them before.
As for my alt, I think it will be the NU Shiftry.

 

[Othesemo]

I seem to have an uncanny knack for hitting the benchmark exactly.

And my team.


Shiftry generally seems to be regarded as a mediocre pokemon, and not entirely without reason. His bulk is passable, but not exceptional, and neither of his attacking stats are remarkably high. While he does possess an excellent offensive tool in STAB Sucker Punch, he faces stiff competition from Cacturne, who boasts higher attacking stats, shares the ability to set up with Swords Dance (or Nasty Plot), and can support the team with Spikes. As such, when using Shiftry, it’s vital to play him to his advantages over the cactus- his Speed stat, which sits at a comfortable 80, and his superior bulk.

Given this, as well as the fact that Shiftry is crippled by every status bar sleep (should it elect to run Early Bird), it seems only natural to run a set utilizing Substitute. Not only does Substitute allow Shiftry to take advantage of Will-o-Wisps and Thunder Waves which would otherwise cripple him, it has excellent synergy with Sucker Punch- while Sucker Punch encourages the opponent to utilize non-attacking moves to take Shiftry down, Substitute punishes them for it. Most importantly, Shiftry’s speed stat allows him to outspeed and set up on many defensive threats in NU- notably, Alomomola and Misdreavus can do nothing to Shiftry, provided he doesn’t switch in on a status move.

Once a substitute has been made, Shiftry need only grab a Swords Dance to begin destroying everything in sight. Those pokemon with enough bulk to survive a single attack are generally slow enough that they’ll be forced to eat another one before being able to even touch Shiftry, and they rarely carry moves that can cause significant damage. Meanwhile, those pokemon that are fast enough to hit Shiftry before he can make a substitute are generally done in by a +2 STAB Sucker Punch.

Unfortunately, as a sweeper, this Shiftry is very inflexible. It functions best when brought in on a slow volt switch or after a pokemon has been fainted, and generally against defensive pokemon. While it is possible to switch him in in the midst of fighting, this will almost invariably require successful prediction. This difficulty is eased somewhat by pairing him with a cleric, but the risk of being forced to waste three turns remains undesirable. Additionally, as I discovered during the course of laddering, this Shiftry set is absolutely crippled by toxic spikes. Finally, the loss of Nature Power’s coverage leaves Shiftry vulnerable to a number of pokemon which it would otherwise be capable of dealing with- Skuntank is the most prominent example, as it takes little from either of Shiftry’s attacks, and can hit it hard with Poison Jab. As such, Shiftry will generally require team support to sweep with any great regularity.

Nonetheless, when played to his strengths, Shiftry is an extremely capable sweeper. Many players will fail to anticipate substitute and attempt to switch in a wall of some sort, only to end up giving Shiftry the free turns he requires to sweep through their team. Shiftry’s niche as a physical sweeper capable of setting up on and destroying some of NU’s best physical walls should not be overlooked, and its access to STAB Sucker Punch gives it no small utility as a revenge killer. Overall, Shiftry is a good, if not superb, pokemon who remains perfectly usable in this metagame.

 

[Shuckleking87]

I was a little bit of a bitch not playing anymore battles, but here it is
User: shuckleking3
FormatACREGXEGlicko2WLT
nu 1953 90 2087 ± 95 18 0 0

http://pastebin.com/EMpgZn6s And look at this pathetic team if you want. Yes, counter jynx is awesome

So I only used Ursaring instead of Klang. I really wanted to try a Bulk up/ Facade/ Rest/Sleep Talk set as a pseudo braviary and quick feet for speed, but it was an outright fail. Though the standard quick feet ursaring really did its job. What I like about Ursaring over Zangoose, who I would say is most common to ursaring, is the initial bulk to set up a swords dance easier. Swords Dance is just too difficult to run with zangoose as its really frail, and it relies on revenge killing with a move to activate its orb, while ursaring can come in and take a hit if need be it. I choose adament for the extra power that I feel it needs, though it isnt outspeeding 95+ speed pokes, which is a little bit of a pain. Ursaring is also nice in if I am predicting a status move, like a misdreavus will-o-wisp, I can use ursaring to absorb it, unlike Zangoose. Lack of priority hurts somewhat, but having a priority or 2 users on a team can make up for this. I would say that, after using both pokes, that it is easier for ursaring to do damage, while zangoose has a better chance to late game sweep. Overall, I believe that ursaring's power before and after the toxic orb, and the speed after the toxic orb makes it the superior poke.

I will get some more battles though to get to the deviation I guess, though this alt has a pretty good ladder standing. Don't know if I will

 

[Raseri]

Shiftry~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Shiftry is like one of my favourite pokemon ever, I run a different set than ebeast's "best set", I always like to have Nasty Plot to wreck any defensive teams. Dark Pulse / Giga / NP / Sucker Punch is enough to keep Shiftry pretty good in most matchups. It counters Mola and Missy, a pretty good defensive core. Shiftry sucks against Kanga teams, but owns bulky ones so hard with Nasty Plot.

I love shiftry cause it can do so many things. Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, mixed, all out attacker, Growth in Sun are all viable and dangerous in different ways. NP + Sucker Punch is what I find to be the most consistent, because you'll always get the flinch when you need it. All the other mons suck though so dont use them :)

 

[skylight]

Today I've been laddering with Rampardos and Shiftry (in the same team even!)

Rampardos is honestly amazing - the amount of people that keep in their rock/steels or Golem's and die to Rampardos' Mold Breaker EQ is amazing. Rampardos has literally taken out half of the opposing team so many times on the ladder tonight (assuming Head Smash doesn't exist). It's also really easy to use with LO as the majority of the ladder I've found is pretty slow, or at least leads with a slow mon - and unlike Sawk it doesn't have to be locked in to have enough power for the most part. I was thinking of going special but I don't think it'd really be that better than just using it for its amazing attack power and Mold Breaker (being able to outspeed most eel and weezing when Rampardos goes with max speed is p awesome). I'd have tried RP but I didn't really find too many opportunities to set up and with Head Smash it'd lose way too much damage to really be able to sweep. With that I think it works best as a lead/wall breaker similar to Sawk, ofc with the advantage being Missy takes lots of damage from EQ and Head Smash on switch-in whereas Sawk can't reliably use Close Combat without the risk of Musharna, Weezing, and so on switching in against it.

Everyone so far has posted Rampardos hasn't been so great, has anyone else had any positive experiences with it? Because honestly I've found it a lot of fun even with the faster meta because there's still a whole lot of slower mons that still exist in the meta that Rampardos enjoys taking down.

For Shiftry (I actually take back what I said before!) I've been using Sub/Giga/Dark Pulse/NP. Originally I put it there because I wanted something for Alomomola but it's actually turned out pretty good with sub, since the extra chance to use NP is really useful. It's actually not bad without Sucker Punch, and can do a lot if you predict correctly with it and give it the right team mates, like, Musharna to handle Gurdurr/Sawk for example (or Missy, Weezing, etc). With that in mind, the loss of Sucker Punch isn't really too noticeable for the most part.

As for Ursaring, I used it before Smogon went down, and it was good with Guts, but the speed did let it down for the most part and if I wanted the extra speed I didn't want to have to resort to Quick Feet because it meant it wasn't strong enough versus Alomomola etc. The lack of priority also lets Ursaring down and with that in mind I generally would prefer to use Zangoose or Swellow for Guts users in the tier simply because they have priority, speed and there's other Pokemon that can perform the wall breaking role that Ursaring could otherwise do.

On another note, for those who haven't posted and have been laddering, which Pokemon in this research week do you think has been the most effective in this meta? Also if you haven't already posted and have used these mons recently please do discuss!