Revenge of the Ape (Weatherless Balance)

Revenge of the Ape! (a 5th Gen RMT by Flamer)

First Glance

Greetings Smogon and welcome to my first RMT, entitled "Revenge of the Ape" I created this team as a way to showcase Infernape, an underrated and dangerous Pokemon that has great potential, despite the general opinion of the community. While this team is designed to showcase Infernape, the premise of the team is to facilitate a sweep using Speed Boost Sharpedo, another underrated threat (hipster me). While the team has had some mild success, it is not at a stage where I can say that it covers everything I need it to. This is why I have come to Smogon, to hopefully get some advice on what to do to improve it.
The teambuilding process began with a simple FGW core of Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and Infernape.

I then realised I needed something to deal with powerful physical attackers such as Terrakion and Scizor. Landorus-T was the perfect fit due to his decent bulk, access to Intimidate, and pressure he puts on opposing teams

I noticed that Lati@s could easily have a field day with my team as well as I was being outsped by anything above 108 base speed so I added Sarfed Kyurem-B to the roster.

I felt that the team needed a set-up sweeper so I added CM Keldeo.

This iteration of the team played decently but after being swept by SD Breloom I swapped out Keldeo for Alakazam. Keldeo was compounding too many weaknesses for the team and dying too fast. Alakazam gave me a speedy revenge killer who answered many threats to my team.

Kyurem-B's coverage issues meant that he was often unable to demolish the opposing team despite a base attack stat of 170 so he was replaced with Moxie Salamence. Salamence was a frightening late-game cleaner with similar power to Kyurem-B after a Moxie boost and much better coverage.

This team was successful but I had a massive weakness to ice-type attacks and after reading Gary2346's and Halycon of Light's "Feast of the Bullfrogs" I was inspired to use Speed Boost Sharpedo as my late-game sweeper. This iteration of the team, like many others prior to it, had a massive weakness to SD Breloom and Alakazan was a shaky check due to +2 Bullet Seed OHKOing through his Sash so I decided to replace him with CM Latias.

In order to protect myself against rain teams better I decided to replace Rotom-W with Jellicent. Jellicents bulk and typing meshed well with the team. I still was having issues with Breloom so I replaced Latias with her Brother.

Team Analysis


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed Trait: Iron Barbs

EV's 252HP, 88Def, 168SDef
IV's: 0 Speed
-Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball
-Power Whip

This guy is absolutely amazing. A great defensive typing and titanic defensive stats means that Ferrothorn is always tough to take down. The movepool and EV's are fairly standard. Spikes because due to Ferrothorns bulk he can set up at least two layers. Leech seed for some recovery so that Ferrothorn doesn't become worn down by repeated attacks and forces setup-sweepers and walls to switch out. Gyro ball is there so that I can 2HKO Espeon on the switch and deal damage to Outraging dragons. Power Whip is to get rid of water types such as Politoed and Jellicent.


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Nature: Sassy Trait: Water Absorb
EV's: 252HP, 36Def, 220SDef
-Scald
-Shadow Ball
-Toxic
-Recover

Jellicent is my specially defensive wall, spinblocker and my answer to the water-types who threaten Infernape and Landorus-T. Scalds nifty 30% burn chance allows me to deal with physical attackers who would hope to target his weaker Defense stat. Shadow ball wrecks offensive Starmie and makes sure I can beat opposing Jellicents who lack it. Toxic is to stall out setup-sweepers such as CM Latias, who can switch in with impunity otherwise. Recover is for, obviously, recovery. It allows me to keep healthy throughout the match and can help scout the opponent moveset.


Infernape @ Expert Belt
Nature: Jolly Trait: Blaze
EV's: 252Atk, 252Spe, 4HP
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn

Infernape is my first Wallbreaker and is one of my win conditions. Expert Belt is for bluffing Band, you have no idea how many times my opponent has switched in their Ferrothorn after I've KO'd a Pokemon with SE and then gets promtly OHKOed by CC or Flare Blitz. Flare Blitz and Close Combat are the STAB moves of choice, hitting a good deal of the tier for a large amount of damage. Stone Edge is for hitting the multitude of Dragon-Flying Types in the metagame, as well as OHKOing Volcarona, who cannot do much in return, even at +1. U-Turn is to get out of unfavourable matchups and also helps with bluffing a choice item, as well as hitting Starmie and Lati@s for good damage on the switch.


Latios @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid Trait: Levitate
EV's: 252SAtk, 4
SDef, 252Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Surf
-Sleep Talk

Latios is my second Wallbreaker and my main check to Breloom. Draco Meteor demolishes everything in its path and is great against neutral foes. Psyshock is for getting past the blobs and hits Fighting Types for Super effective damage. I didn't want to lose the speed tie to opposing Pokemon in the same speed tier as me so I went for Surf instead of HP Fire. Surf OHKO's offensive Heatran and hits most steel types for neutral damage. Sleep Talk is a big "Fuck You" to Sporing Breloom who think they can set up a Swords Dance after they put me to sleep.


Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant Trait: Intimidate
EV's: 184HP, 148Atk, 176Def
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-U-Turn
-Stone Edge

Landorus is my Defensive Pivot. Between his good bulk, crazy Attack stat and Intimidate, Landorus is a great counter to physical behemoths such as Terrakion and Scizor. The EV's are a modified version of the Smogon Set, I wanted a slow U-Turn to bring my frailer Pokemon in unharmed and I wanted to hit back like a truck while taking minimal damage in return. Stealth Rock is a great move on Landorus because of the switches he forces. Earthquake is in for a reliable STAB and hit many Steel types for Super-Effective damage. U-Turn is for gaining momentum and getting some damage off on physical walls who can counter him such as Slowbo. The last moveslot currently holds Stone Edge to hit types that resist EQ and achieve the EdgeQuake combination but I am not sure whether HP Ice would be a better alternative for the KO's on Garchomp and Salamence.



Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant Trait: Speed Boost
EV's 252Atk, 252Spe, 4HP
-Protect
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Earthquake

Sharpedo is my late-game cleaner and second win condition. Protect is to do two things, allow me to get a Speed Boost to outspeed faster foes and to scout the moveset of the opposing Pokemon. Waterfall is my STAB move of choice, hitting a good deal of the metagame for significant damage. Crunch is my sencond STAB move and hits pokemon that resist Waterfall, like Jellicent and Slowbro, for super-effective damage. Earthquake is my final move and hits most Steel-Types for more damage than my STAB moves and is my only way of getting past Ferrothorn. Despite his frailty, Sharpedo can often pull off a sweep and doesn't have the issue of being locked into one move like previous pokemon in this position.

Threat List
VOLCARONA: If this thing manages to set up more than one Quiver Dance it's essentially GG then and there. Infernape can deal with it at +1 because he can survive most of it's moves and KO with Stone Edge. Sharpedo can also deal with it if he was in before and has a Speed Boost under his belt. Jellicent can deal with variants without Giga Drain.

BRELOOM: I hate this bastard with every bone in my body because, even though he can't take even resisted hits, Spore means he can set up on my team and either set up a Sub or start Sword Dancing. This is the reason I carry Sleep Talk on Latios, who can KO with Draco Meteor and Psyshock or 2HKO with Surf.

GYRADOS: The bulky Dragon Dance set is really scary to face. Ferrothorn can deal with it if it doesn't have a sub up and by utilising smart plays I can KO before he does too much damage.

LATIOS: This thing can hit like a truck with STAB Draco Meteor and if Ferrothorn is down, nothing can take it. I often use U-Turn on Infernape when I predict the switch in and allow Sharpedo to take it on after he has obtained a Speed Boost. Ferrothorn can wall it if it lacks HP Fire and if it does have it I can outspeed with my Latios and KO.

KELDEO: I don't have any issues with this guy. Scarfed?, Jellicent. Specs?, Jellicent. CM? Jellicent, Seeing a pattern here? All joke aside Jellicent walls most sets and even if Jellicent is down Latios can outspeed and KO with Psyshock.

TOXICROAK: In the rain this guy can be annoying because I lack any way to change the weather. Landorus can Intimidate it and go into Jellicent or if it doesn't have a sub, Sharpedo can Earthquake it down.


Thanks for reading my RMT, any help would be greatly appreciated and I'm open to any form of positive criticism or advice! If you would like me to change a Pokemon or moveset please include a reason and your suggested set.
 
Why sassy Jellicent? It wont take much at all from gyro balls, doesnt carry it itself and may as well outspeed some threats, so why not calm? Takes less dmg from confusion and Foul Play too
 
Can't Think of anything, had maybe 15 battles with this team, haven't lost a single one!
Despite this, in only 5 of those battles have I been able to set up spikes, so I may suggest changing it to another move (Protect, Thunder Wave?) to better make use of stalling/ Dealing with dragons - I have had trouble with ddancing sub dragonite for some reason D:
But still, one of the best teams I have played with!

Also, trick room teams are SOO situational, I would still question Sassy as Jellicent still cant do much to strong TR sweepers like Cofagrigous and conkeldurr, especially guts variants.
 
@md5793 Thankyou very much for the rate! I have sometimes wished I have protect or T-Wave during matches so I will test out that. I will also change Jelli's nature to Calm with 0 Atk IV's. I don't have too many issues with sub DD dragonite if SR is up and he can be dealt with by Lando
 
Your team may have trouble with sun teams, in particular venasaur. once it is at +2 with growth, you can only stop it with Latias or sharpedo on 2-turn protect to outspeed, but other than that you are hurt badly. you may want to run a specially bulky tentacruel set - it can still deal with rain teams (Especially with Rain Dish and Sludge) and can 2HKO venasaur after SR with 128EV's in SpA. It also provides spin support which all teams welcome, while taking neutral damage from grass type attacks. Be wary of dragons and TTar, however, as tentacruel has no reliable healing and an added weakness to ground.

Try it out!

Set:

Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
 
md5793 said:
Your team may have trouble with sun teams, in particular venasaur. once it is at +2 with growth, you can only stop it with Latias or sharpedo on 2-turn protect to outspeed, but other than that you are hurt badly. you may want to run a specially bulky tentacruel set - it can still deal with rain teams (Especially with Rain Dish and Sludge) and can 2HKO venasaur after SR with 128EV's in SpA. It also provides spin support which all teams welcome, while taking neutral damage from grass type attacks. Be wary of dragons and TTar, however, as tentacruel has no reliable healing and an added weakness to ground.
Try it out!

Set:

Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
Thanks for the advice but Tenta. I will try him out in Jelli's position but the ground weakness means that I cannot stop Heatran and the Psychic weakness puts me at the mercy of Alakazam and the Lati Twins, Pokemon that i need to be taken out
 
Hi. I can't rate for shit anymore, but I would try taunt/wisp jellicent and SpD heatran over infernape. Then you can use double dance landorus-t for a win condition. Sharpedo is also pretty bad, especially without rain. You could put different things there depending how offensive you want the team to be, but fitting in a rapid spinner would probably be pretty nice. A breloom check would be good too. I'm thinking choose breloom check, maybe something like a scarf salamence could help you out? I hope I helped.
 
Hi @Asterat and thank you for the rate! I have used taunt/wisp Jellicent in this team before, it doesnt do as much as my current set does. If you read the descriptions you would know that I am basing this team on Infernape and therefore I do not want to change the position. DD Landorus is an interesting option but I need Lando to counter physical threats like Terrakion and Scizor. I have also tried out Scarfed Mence and while it was mildly successful, Sharpedo does the job a lot better due to the ability to switch moves and Speed boost. Also I do have a Breloom check in the form of Sleep Talk Latios.

The issues with some of the sets you suggested are that I have not only already used them but given reasons in the teambuilding process why I changed them. I recommend reading through the entire RMT first before rating.
 
Last edited:

MCBarrett

i love it when you call me big hoppa
Hey Flamer, thanks for the request!

So you say that Sharpedo and Infernape are meant to be the stars of the team. The problem is though that in order to be truly effective Sharpedo absolutely needs rain support while Infernape really does not appreciate being in the rain. So since your team name has 'ape' and 'weatherless' in it I'll suggest changes around Infernape rather than Sharpedo.

So looking at your team the first thing I notice is the lack of a true Revenge Killer. Sharpedo was decent at it but against setup sweepers and faster scarfers he still comes up short. Also, like you said, Volcarona is a gigantic threat to your team, having quite a few setup opportunities and being able to sweep through your team with relative ease. To help with this I would recommend using Scarf Garchomp over Sharpedo. Scarf Chomp is one of the best Pokes in the current metagame thanks to its amazing dual STAB and solid speed stat. It can easily Revenge KO Volcarona, since it still outspeeds ond OHKO's at +1.

Next, I don't really see the need for Landorus-T on this team. You say it's there to take on Scizor/ Terrakion but Jellicent and Ferrothorn can handle those two quite nicely. With your team being pretty vulnerable to Dragon Spam as well as Mamoswine posing a big threat, I would suggest changing your current Landorus-T to a Shuca Berry Jirachi. Shuca Rachi provides you with great support for this team. It lures in Ground Types such as Mamoswine, Landorus-T, Garchomp and Hippowdon and deals massive with either Grass Knot or Icy wind. It also provides you with another Dragon Resist which is always nice. You can opt for a set with Stealth Rocks or use the final slot for another attack.
Here's the set:

Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature
- Grass Knot
- Icy Wind
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Stealth Rocks / U-Turn / Psychic / Flash Cannon / HP Fire

Lastly, I think you could use a different spread and moveset on your Jellicent to help deal with things like Tyranitar and Scizor that might try to Pursuit trap you. A physically defensive spread pairs better with Ferrothorn anyways since he can take the special attacks aimed at Jellicent quite easily (Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball etc.) The EVs allow you to outspeed and Burn standard CB Ttar and Scizor.
Here's the set:

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-o-Wisp
- Taunt / Toxic

Hopefully my suggestions helped! Let me know how it works and good luck with the team!
 
What is wrong with the people suggesting these things for Ferro and Jelli?

Ferrothorn should have Spikes, Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, and Power Whip, with 252 HP 252 Defense and 4 Attack.

Jellicent should have Scald, Toxic, recover, and Shadow Ball with 252 HP 252 SpDef and 4 SpAtk and 0 Attack IVs.

The reason is: Jellicent will never need speed, Taunt on Jellicent will do nothing but literally force a Ferrothorn to Power Whip you. Neither of them should be mixing EVs through their defenses which makes the core worse as a whole. Act like you know everything because you use Smogon sets, but you're wrong, most are bad, overspecific, or outdated, and there is no reason to suggest something blindly for a specific team that may or may not benefit from it.
 

MCBarrett

i love it when you call me big hoppa
What is wrong with the people suggesting these things for Ferro and Jelli?

Ferrothorn should have Spikes, Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, and Power Whip, with 252 HP 252 Defense and 4 Attack.

Jellicent should have Scald, Toxic, recover, and Shadow Ball with 252 HP 252 SpDef and 4 SpAtk and 0 Attack IVs.

The reason is: Jellicent will never need speed, Taunt on Jellicent will do nothing but literally force a Ferrothorn to Power Whip you. Neither of them should be mixing EVs through their defenses which makes the core worse as a whole. Act like you know everything because you use Smogon sets, but you're wrong, most are bad, overspecific, or outdated, and there is no reason to suggest something blindly for a specific team that may or may not benefit from it.
His team has multiple members that can be Pursuit Trapped by Tyranitar or Scizor. Running speed on Jellicent allows you to outspeed and burn said threats, allowing you to keep your Jellicent and make Ttar and Scizor non-factors for the rest of the match. Taunt allows you to keep non-Custap Skarmory from setting up hazards which is huge because his team lacks a spinner. It also allows you to prevent taking a Toxic from Politoed and it totally shuts down Stall teams, preventing them from using Recover or setting up Hazards/ Toxic for residual damage. So yeah, it works and his team directly benefits from it. Please stop flooding this forum with nonsense.
 
MCBarret said:
Hey Flamer, thanks for the request!

So you say that Sharpedo and Infernape are meant to be the stars of the team. The problem is though that in order to be truly effective Sharpedo absolutely needs rain support while Infernape really does not appreciate being in the rain. So since your team name has 'ape' and 'weatherless' in it I'll suggest changes around Infernape rather than Sharpedo.

So looking at your team the first thing I notice is the lack of a true Revenge Killer. Sharpedo was decent at it but against setup sweepers and faster scarfers he still comes up short. Also, like you said, Volcarona is a gigantic threat to your team, having quite a few setup opportunities and being able to sweep through your team with relative ease. To help with this I would recommend using Scarf Garchomp over Sharpedo. Scarf Chomp is one of the best Pokes in the current metagame thanks to its amazing dual STAB and solid speed stat. It can easily Revenge KO Volcarona, since it still outspeeds ond OHKO's at +1.

Next, I don't really see the need for Landorus-T on this team. You say it's there to take on Scizor/ Terrakion but Jellicent and Ferrothorn can handle those two quite nicely. With your team being pretty vulnerable to Dragon Spam as well as Mamoswine posing a big threat, I would suggest changing your current Landorus-T to a Shuca Berry Jirachi. Shuca Rachi provides you with great support for this team. It lures in Ground Types such as Mamoswine, Landorus-T, Garchomp and Hippowdon and deals massive with either Grass Knot or Icy wind. It also provides you with another Dragon Resist which is always nice. You can opt for a set with Stealth Rocks or use the final slot for another attack.
Here's the set:

Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature
- Grass Knot
- Icy Wind
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Stealth Rocks / U-Turn / Psychic / Flash Cannon / HP Fire

Lastly, I think you could use a different spread and moveset on your Jellicent to help deal with things like Tyranitar and Scizor that might try to Pursuit trap you. A physically defensive spread pairs better with Ferrothorn anyways since he can take the special attacks aimed at Jellicent quite easily (Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball etc.) The EVs allow you to outspeed and Burn standard CB Ttar and Scizor.
Here's the set:

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-o-Wisp
- Taunt / Toxic

Hopefully my suggestions helped! Let me know how it works and good luck with the team!
Thank you so much for the rate Barret!! I have tested out your changes extensively and the Jellicent and Garchomp sets work extremely well. With Jellicents fast taunt and Will-O-Wisp I was able to stop hazard setters and setup sweepers in their tracks, the only issue is that I lose insurance for special attackers. Garchomp is working decently in his position but I have yet to encounter any Volc's so my opinion of him should rise at that point. I'm not sure about Jirachi though. It gets up SR and is great insurance against DragSpam and Mamo but cannot do much else. Is there anything that fits the same position while not becoming dead weight if the opponent isn't using STAB EQ or isn't Spamming his Drags?

Overall the changes have been very beneficial to the team, in fact I haven't lost a game since I made the changes, so thank you.

dbzmariogeno I can understand your reasoning behind being against Taunt Jelli, I was too until I tried it, but it works extremely well in removing pursuit trappers and taunting setup sweepers, however, flaming other users isn't generally encouraged here at Smogon University so please keep the sass to a minimum please.
 
So you tell me I have a valid point but to stop making it? I was telling you what the average person does, which is bad. I feel like Jellicent doesn't have the moveslot for it, it needs Scald Toxic and Recover, and hopefully Shadow Ball. What are you going to Taunt even with that speed, Ferrothorn long enough to take a Power Whip? I understand your point and have no problem with it, just give me a reason for it, in this case give me enough reason to use Taunt by telling me what specifically I could take advantage of it against.
 
Hey nice team overall. I don't have much to add other then that i personally liked using scarf/specs latios (with the same moves as yours). With specs you can have a spec boosted sleeptalk wich is pretty dangerous and makes latios quite dangerous when sleeping. Scarf would be if you feel like you need a fast special sweeper for revengekills.
 
dbzmariogeno Taunt limits the most common entry hazard setters, Ferrothorn and Skarmory, to no entry hazard or just SR if it is Custap Skarm. Jelli still has Scald, Recover and Will-O-Wisp to deal with other theats, specifically Pursuit T-Tar. The only downside is the minimised Special Bulk which Ferrothorn deals with Special Attackers pretty well anyway. Also I wasn't implying that you should stop making that point, I was simply saying that this set works better for the current iteration of the team by nullifying pursuit threats that can threaten my Latios later on.

Soulfly Cheers for the advice! I will definately try out the Spectios set on the team. I don't need a Scarfer because I now use ScarfChomp as my revenge killer and late-game cleaner.
 
Ferrothorn will Power Whip you to death even if you taunt it. Also Toxic is better then Will-O if you're using Scald, you said yourself neither are reliable methods of a burn, so why not do Scald and Toxic, or Surf and Will-O? Also you should probably put 0 IVs in Attack for Jellicent.
 
I don't plan on staying in on Ferrothorns anyway with Jellicent. I don't run toxic because it means I cannot wear down the many Steel-Types in the OU tier as well as Will-O reducing damage done by physical attacks. I will try Surf over Scald but the extra power is neglible in Jellicents case, while Surf does not allow me to burn Pokemon while I am taunted
 

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