From the LC mods
SS LC tiering was incredibly controversial when it was the current generation, especially in the last couple months leading up to generation 9. Despite a common feeling that something needed to be changed, agreement on the next step never came, and before we knew it the new generation was upon us. Focus naturally left SS LC, but far from being frozen in time, metagame development has continued through LC's old generation tournaments. SS LC in its current state has had well over 2 years to ferment and mature without bans, yet it seems that the demand for change has only strengthened. Amid concerns of a dwindling player base in comparison to other LC old gens as a result of frustration with the metagame, we would like to engage with the player base to decide on the best way forward for the tier.
A couple tiering options have been floated, but it's worth briefly summarizing the common complaints before going into them. They broadly fall into two strands, which I'll summarize here. I will caveat this section by saying that I am trying to compress multiple similar-but-distinct viewpoints into one section. If you feel this section is in some way a mischaracterization, please clarify in the discussion.
1. Matchup issues / building restriction
The restrictions SS LC puts on creativity in the builder have long been the subject of ire, especially near the beginning of the last SCL of the generation. At the time Koffing was by far the most dominant fighting resist, with only Mareanie giving it slight competition; with the rest of building process consisting of adding Mienfoo, picking from one of two steel types and adding one defensive and one offensive Pokemon, teams were blending into one another heavily.
This began to shift at the end of SCL, with two new trends breaking the status quo: Morelull/Larvesta based teams and sun. The former greatly expanded fighting-resist variety; the latter began to virtually demand a water type on every team, with even that often not being enough. While the metagame certainly felt less same-y as a result of these trends, the new options combined with existing threats like Abra made many feel that the metagame was far too matchup-based. Building a team that didn't suffer badly against a fairly common archetype (or, in the case of Morellul, potentially a single move slot) was no trivial matter. The new relevance of 30% status abilities did little to endear people to the new meta, either.
The recent popularity of Toxic Spikes Koffing, a nasty matchup for any team lacking a grounded poison, has in some players' eyes caused the meta to come full-circle: once again it is difficult to justify bringing anything but Koffing and Mareanie-based teams. Even with this new trend decreasing metagame variety by a little, it still feels difficult to avoid accepting losses to common matchups. Whatever the trends of the season happen to be, feelings of paralysis in the builder have been some of the most consistent complaints since the generation was current.
2. Metagame "feel" / Lack of midgrounds
Soon after Vullaby's ban and the subsequent stabilization period, a strong portion of the player base started to campaign for its reintroduction. This contingent survives to this day, and their arguments have changed little. To them, Vullaby was actually a positive force in the metagame. Its bulk combined with Weak Armor allowed it to switch into a wide variety of threats once or twice per game and force them out. This option served as an invaluable midground option throughout the game, though it was difficult to know at what moment to use it. The mark of a top player was the ability to capitalize on the options Vullaby gave at the correct moment. The banning of Vullaby made the in-game play far less skill-expressive and enjoyable—or so they argue. This argument is a difficult one to communicate, as much of the player base only picked up SS LC only after Vullaby was banned. This newer half of the player base naturally has little reference for what play in the Vullaby metagame was like, much less how it compares to the current one. If we go down this route, it might be important to find a way to give them that reference as best as possible before any actual vote. It is also worth mentioning that Vullaby was resuspected while the generation was current—unsuccessfully. Still, given that the desire for changing SS LC is even higher now than it was then, if the majority of current players want Vullaby back we see no reason to keep it off the table.
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So, where do we go from here? The three most popular suspect options should be unsurprising to anyone who has been around LC long enough.
Option 1: Free Vullaby
I've already gone over the basic argument for freeing Vullaby in the above, so little additional explanation is needed here. This is the only option that essentially reverts us back to a previously existing metagame, which could cause less instability than the other options—instability that is more difficult for past generations with less play to recover from. A large part of why Vullaby was banned in the first place was its deadly combination with offensive Porygon, so if people still find the core overwhelming upon Vullaby's hypothetical reintroduction, some have proposed going after the other member instead.
Option 2: Ban Diglett
With its ability to remove frail and Ground-weak Pokémon from the field throughout the game, Diglett is perhaps the single most overwhelming presence at the building stage. Seeing it removed could improve the fighting type variety greatly, allowing Mareanie to compete much more easily with Koffing. It could also make Pokémon traditionally held down by Diglett viable, like Trubbish and Chinchou. This shift could add much-needed variety to the meta, and shift standard team structures for the better.
Option 3: Ban Mienfoo
This is probably the least popular option, as it would most require reworking the metagame from the ground up. Most who consider it broken in the current meta fault its U-turn combined with Diglett—remove the latter and Mienfoo would likely be fine. Still, considering that unhappiness with SS LC has been a near constant for some, the most radical option does have some appeal. It would completely change the building meta, lessening the need for a solid fighting resist and removing the ever-present menace of U-turn + Diglett.
Option 4: Do Nothing
The players who are happy with the meta as is should not be overlooked here, many of whom strongly disagree with the premises of the complaints summarized above. I encourage those people to post here, as if more of the player base than we thought is happy with the meta, we should not change it.
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Unless a strong consensus is apparent in this discussion, I will release a poll in a while that will precede any action. I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!
SS LC tiering was incredibly controversial when it was the current generation, especially in the last couple months leading up to generation 9. Despite a common feeling that something needed to be changed, agreement on the next step never came, and before we knew it the new generation was upon us. Focus naturally left SS LC, but far from being frozen in time, metagame development has continued through LC's old generation tournaments. SS LC in its current state has had well over 2 years to ferment and mature without bans, yet it seems that the demand for change has only strengthened. Amid concerns of a dwindling player base in comparison to other LC old gens as a result of frustration with the metagame, we would like to engage with the player base to decide on the best way forward for the tier.
A couple tiering options have been floated, but it's worth briefly summarizing the common complaints before going into them. They broadly fall into two strands, which I'll summarize here. I will caveat this section by saying that I am trying to compress multiple similar-but-distinct viewpoints into one section. If you feel this section is in some way a mischaracterization, please clarify in the discussion.
1. Matchup issues / building restriction
The restrictions SS LC puts on creativity in the builder have long been the subject of ire, especially near the beginning of the last SCL of the generation. At the time Koffing was by far the most dominant fighting resist, with only Mareanie giving it slight competition; with the rest of building process consisting of adding Mienfoo, picking from one of two steel types and adding one defensive and one offensive Pokemon, teams were blending into one another heavily.
This began to shift at the end of SCL, with two new trends breaking the status quo: Morelull/Larvesta based teams and sun. The former greatly expanded fighting-resist variety; the latter began to virtually demand a water type on every team, with even that often not being enough. While the metagame certainly felt less same-y as a result of these trends, the new options combined with existing threats like Abra made many feel that the metagame was far too matchup-based. Building a team that didn't suffer badly against a fairly common archetype (or, in the case of Morellul, potentially a single move slot) was no trivial matter. The new relevance of 30% status abilities did little to endear people to the new meta, either.
The recent popularity of Toxic Spikes Koffing, a nasty matchup for any team lacking a grounded poison, has in some players' eyes caused the meta to come full-circle: once again it is difficult to justify bringing anything but Koffing and Mareanie-based teams. Even with this new trend decreasing metagame variety by a little, it still feels difficult to avoid accepting losses to common matchups. Whatever the trends of the season happen to be, feelings of paralysis in the builder have been some of the most consistent complaints since the generation was current.
2. Metagame "feel" / Lack of midgrounds
Soon after Vullaby's ban and the subsequent stabilization period, a strong portion of the player base started to campaign for its reintroduction. This contingent survives to this day, and their arguments have changed little. To them, Vullaby was actually a positive force in the metagame. Its bulk combined with Weak Armor allowed it to switch into a wide variety of threats once or twice per game and force them out. This option served as an invaluable midground option throughout the game, though it was difficult to know at what moment to use it. The mark of a top player was the ability to capitalize on the options Vullaby gave at the correct moment. The banning of Vullaby made the in-game play far less skill-expressive and enjoyable—or so they argue. This argument is a difficult one to communicate, as much of the player base only picked up SS LC only after Vullaby was banned. This newer half of the player base naturally has little reference for what play in the Vullaby metagame was like, much less how it compares to the current one. If we go down this route, it might be important to find a way to give them that reference as best as possible before any actual vote. It is also worth mentioning that Vullaby was resuspected while the generation was current—unsuccessfully. Still, given that the desire for changing SS LC is even higher now than it was then, if the majority of current players want Vullaby back we see no reason to keep it off the table.
----------------
So, where do we go from here? The three most popular suspect options should be unsurprising to anyone who has been around LC long enough.
Option 1: Free Vullaby
I've already gone over the basic argument for freeing Vullaby in the above, so little additional explanation is needed here. This is the only option that essentially reverts us back to a previously existing metagame, which could cause less instability than the other options—instability that is more difficult for past generations with less play to recover from. A large part of why Vullaby was banned in the first place was its deadly combination with offensive Porygon, so if people still find the core overwhelming upon Vullaby's hypothetical reintroduction, some have proposed going after the other member instead.
Option 2: Ban Diglett
With its ability to remove frail and Ground-weak Pokémon from the field throughout the game, Diglett is perhaps the single most overwhelming presence at the building stage. Seeing it removed could improve the fighting type variety greatly, allowing Mareanie to compete much more easily with Koffing. It could also make Pokémon traditionally held down by Diglett viable, like Trubbish and Chinchou. This shift could add much-needed variety to the meta, and shift standard team structures for the better.
Option 3: Ban Mienfoo
This is probably the least popular option, as it would most require reworking the metagame from the ground up. Most who consider it broken in the current meta fault its U-turn combined with Diglett—remove the latter and Mienfoo would likely be fine. Still, considering that unhappiness with SS LC has been a near constant for some, the most radical option does have some appeal. It would completely change the building meta, lessening the need for a solid fighting resist and removing the ever-present menace of U-turn + Diglett.
Option 4: Do Nothing
The players who are happy with the meta as is should not be overlooked here, many of whom strongly disagree with the premises of the complaints summarized above. I encourage those people to post here, as if more of the player base than we thought is happy with the meta, we should not change it.
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I am obviously not without a horse in this race, so I'll use this spoiler to separate my opinion from the more neutral OP. I agree with both of the common complaints: for me, SS LC is both horrible to build in and boring to play. I have always been a proponent of freeing Vullaby, but I also think that banning Diglett has a chance of resulting in a more enjoyable meta. The results for banning Diglett are less predictable, however; I am confident that freeing Vullaby would result in a more expressive meta, but have no idea what banning Diglett will do. I am always curious to explore new options, though, so given this my support for either option is about equal.
Banning Mienfoo seems a bit too radical for an old generation metagame, especially since Diglett is more the culprit of the toxic aspects of its presence. It is hard to overstate my dislike for the current metagame however, so I'd still prefer banning Mienfoo over no action. The threshold of how bad the problems are for interfering with an old generation is higher, but for me we have far passed it. So, my preference is as so: Free Vullaby = Ban Diglett > Ban Mienfoo > No action. I won't be tipping the scales for this preference; for the purposes of actually voting, I have no more weight than anyone else, and the path will be selected by consensus.
Banning Mienfoo seems a bit too radical for an old generation metagame, especially since Diglett is more the culprit of the toxic aspects of its presence. It is hard to overstate my dislike for the current metagame however, so I'd still prefer banning Mienfoo over no action. The threshold of how bad the problems are for interfering with an old generation is higher, but for me we have far passed it. So, my preference is as so: Free Vullaby = Ban Diglett > Ban Mienfoo > No action. I won't be tipping the scales for this preference; for the purposes of actually voting, I have no more weight than anyone else, and the path will be selected by consensus.
Unless a strong consensus is apparent in this discussion, I will release a poll in a while that will precede any action. I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!
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