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rgr's s n' s

rgrbaw

This is a team that I've spent a reasonable amount of time working on, but I know it can still be much better. The general idea is to set up spikes and then sweep w/ gengar but we all know things dont go the way we want them all of the time, so I have a couple of other ways to win. Dragon dance and sweep w/ Tyranitar, and completely stalling w/ any of my tanks/walls. Its obviously a sandstorm team which helps me to tank against things because if I get into a stall war w/ another tank (that isnt immune to sandstorm) their leftovers are worthless and I can keep whittling down their HP.

At a glance:
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Changes are in bold


437.png
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD

Gyro Ball
Stealth Rock
Explosion
Reflect / Light Screen

I havent actually added this thing yet but I've got to do something about my weakness to snow warning teams, so another Ice resistance is very welcome. Though this means my Torterra had to be sacrificed :( I dont really know what I'm in for w/ this because I've never used Bronzong, so anyone with some advice on how to use it or make it better than its listed here is very welcome.


073.png
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
"Kraken"
Liquid Ooze
Calm
204 HP / 96 SpA / 172 SpD / 36 Spe

Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin
Toxic Spikes

Either this or Skarmory is my opener depending on what pkmn I see. Lately I've been seeing a lot of s-atkrs so tentacruel > skarmory for an opener. It has one of the most important roles on this team: setting up toxic spikes. Even 1 layer of T-spikes helps this team greatly.


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Skarmory @ Leftovers
"Heelia"
Keen Eye
Impish
252 HP / 96 Atk / 156 Def / 4 Spe

Brave Bird
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind

The other option for an opener for this team, skarmory has a slightly less important job than tentacruel by setting up spikes. Skarm also helps me defend against ninjask and yanmega, it resists their attacks and either drill pecks (unlikely) or blows them away. Aside from that evr1 knows skarm is an all around great physical wall.


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Tyranitar @ Leftovers
"Shukaku"
Sand Stream
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Earthquake
Crunch
Substitute / Taunt
Dragon Dance

My favorite pkmn, but I refuse to use it outside of a sandstorm team. Unfortunately, I rarely do much with it but set up sandstorm. It comes in on a predicted special attack (most likely aimed at skarm) and usually just switches out after. In other cases however, it gets up a substitute and DD's until it can sweep. I took the ev's and ms from this site, but I prefer substitute to taunt.


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Gengar @ Choice Scarf
"Jedah"
Levitate
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Energy Ball
Hypnosis

One of the biggest threats my team has to offer. If I manage to set up completely against you (t-spikes x2, spikes x3, s-rock) This almost guarantees a sweep. Its other role is to counter rapid spinnners. I gave it energy ball rather than focus blast to make sure I can hit as many as possible for x2 dammage.


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Cradilly @ Leftovers
"Magnum"
Suction Cups
Careful
252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD

Rock Slide / Earthquake
Swords Dance
Stockpile
Recover

Cradilly is already a beast of a special wall in the sand, but it really wasnt all that great at setting up stealth rock, so I'm giving that job to Bronzong who should be able to get that job done better, but what to do with the extra slot on Cradilly? Take advantage of Suction Cups, that's what! After setting up a few stockpiles, I can dance until its attacks are beastly unless they've got a hazer that is. I like Cradilly even more now

I havent really come up with a threat list or anything, but I know I have to watch out for heracross because I have a x3 bug weakness. I built the team around 2 ideas: I wanted to use T-tar, and I wanted a team that could use every type of spikes. So i tend to do most of my damage inderectly.

Here's a vid of my team in action, but unfortunately I lost, so I guess its not the best example of what it can do. In my defense, I was still getting used to the team at the time, and not all of the pkmn are the same (though they have the same names)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9clWtT5EpXY

s n' s stands for sand and spikes btw...

Current Threat List:
Heracross
Gyarados (Taunt)
 
Overall, I think the team is good but I feel that you could use another special sweeper. A SpA Infernape might help and it would be one more fast pokemon that you have. Yanmega is good as well and it would help take care of that Herracross problem.
 
Janenmori said:
On Skarm Brave Bird > Drill Peck and Whirlwind > Roar. If you do not like the recoil of BB just Roost it off.
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ok I get brave bird, but what about whirlwind? Its not like you get STAB off it or something cause it doesnt do dammage and last I checked whirlwind and roar are the same move w/ a different name. What makes it superior?

gaburu said:
Overall, I think the team is good but I feel that you could use another special sweeper. A SpA Infernape might help and it would be one more fast pokemon that you have. Yanmega is good as well and it would help take care of that Herracross problem.
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Initially I tried to fit a SpA lucario in here but I wasnt sure where I wanted it. What would you recomend I replace for a special sweeper?
 
Whirlwind isn't stopped by Soundproof, unlike Roar. Deoxys E annihilates this team though I'm not sure how well Cradily can take it on
 
puggy said:
Whirlwind isn't stopped by Soundproof, unlike Roar. Deoxys E annihilates this team.
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As it would most standard BL/OU teams.

On Skarmory, I would highly suggest Shed Shell. I never used it up until a few weeks ago, and it saved my ass at least twice. And with Roost, Skarmory no longer has to rely on Rest, so Shed Shell is almost a given (unless you pack a Dugtrio and can uber predict). I mean, this team has decent defenses even without Skarmory, but losing him can put you in a world of crap.

As for an opener, if you use Shed Shell, go with Skarmory. It's rare that you see Magnezone as a lead, but it's happened to me before. Really, the only time Skarmory sucks as a lead is when up against a Taunt/Dragon Dancer. In fact, now that I think of it, Tauntrados makes this team nervous if he gets even a single Dragon Dance in. I'm not too familiar with Cradilly's potential, but play him carefully if you come across an ambitious sea dragon like that. And if he packs Earthquake/Ice Fang, you may be done for.
 
Richard said:
On Skarmory, I would highly suggest Shed Shell.

Tauntrados makes this team nervous if he gets even a single Dragon Dance in.

I'm not too familiar with Cradilly's potential, but play him carefully if you come across an ambitious sea dragon like that. And if he packs Earthquake/Ice Fang, you may be done for.
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I used to use Shed Shell, but I've never actually faced Magnezone in the entire time I've been battling so I switched to leftovers. If I start seeing more use of Magnezone I will likely switch back.

I've been planning on giving Torterra stone edge in place of wood hammer, but I have to have a good one first. The torterra I'm currently using has a horrible atk IV, but I chose to use it temporarily because the HP and Def IVs are immaculate.

If that Gyarados is comming in after my Cradilly has gotten in a stockpile or two, I probably wouldnt fear it, If I'm switching in then I would likely have an issue, but I'll be sure to watch out for it. The thing I love about Cradilly is that hardly anyone is familliar w/ its potential. People tend to underestimate it just like torterra, and let me get in a few stockpiles. I lol'd at the time when my cradilly took about 15 - 30 dmg from kingdra's draco meteor. My opponent ran after seeing that.

And you guys have convinced me, I'm going to breed for another skarmory so that I can get brave bird and whirlwind. My current skarmory actually has a 0 HP IV anyway, so I've been meaning to replace it.
 
1st you don't have to have all your walls be SS immune. Grass and Rock are terrible defensive typings and you have 2 of each.

I'd throw Focus Blast or HP Ice over Energy Ball on Gengar because the only times you'll be using it is against Bulky Grounds/Rocks. Both Fighting and Ice give great coverage with Ghost and Thunderbolt. Hell you could even give it a Scarf and lead with it because your team is so slow and Tentacruel is not a good lead.

You seem to have a large SD Bullet Punch Lucario weak. With one SD and SR up, Lucario OHKO's Tentacruel, Cradily, and Tyranitar with Close Combat. It 2HKO's Skarmory with Close Combat as well. Gengar is OHKO'ed by Bullet Punch. The only thing that has a chance of surviving a hit is Torterra which takes 88.32% - 104.06% from a SD'ed Close Combat which means its OHKO'ed over 50% of the time the first time and can only switch in once.

Nothing much can take a NP'ed Azelf either. The only thing that can survive, Cradily takes 78.46% - 92.29%, meaning it dies w/ 2 layers of Spikes. Everything else is OHKO'ed.

I suggest Gliscor w/ SR over Skarmory, and Blissey over Cradily. Helps with both of those weaks and Heracross. This only adds to the Gyardos weak though.

Lastly I'd replace Torterra to help your Gyrados weak. SubSeeders should have good speed to ease prediction and Torterra is slow as ass. SubSeeding shouldn't be used on a SS team in my opinion. I'd use Celebi, the best Gyrados counter in the game, there. Hell, it can even Leech Seed if you must, but don't run Sub. I think maybe a Grass Knot/Recover/Leech Seed/HP Fire set would work, but I'm not sure because of the SS.
 
Actually, if something is doing 88 to 104 %, that means theres 12 of 16 damage % that it'll live, meaning theres actually only a TWENTY FIVE percent change of OHKOing.


Also did you know that by following your logic of Azelf sweep with Spikes, that a DDGyarados with Ice Fang actually 2HKOs a Celebi with 404/300 Defenses with 2 layers of Spikes as well?

Anyhoo.

As for the guy who actually posted the team. I don't think Gengar is the greatest idea in the world for what you're trying to do. Imagine you have to switch it on Stealth Rocks, that's 12%, so now for every hit you land, that's an additional 16%. So after 2 attacks you're already down to 56% left. That's not so attractive. If you really wanted a place to put that Lucario, that's the perfect place.

This is what I'd also do. You keep Tentacruel, you add in the aforementioned Gliscor, which actually would help you out a lot as the other dude said. Now youre just running on Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock and your core is Gliscor/Tentacruel/Lucario. You have a slight Heatran problem so what I'd like to do here is Vaporeon. It can use Wish and help with the others.

Now you add in your DDTyranitar. Crunch and Earthquake are good, but do you really want to have Substitute? Honestly, let's run through scenarios. You used Substitute as they switch in: Gliscor, Hippowdon, Swampert, etc. What are you doing now? Dragon Dance? Hitting them for a paltry 30% or so? Taunt either comes in handy for killing things you could, such as Skarmory, or add in more attack coverage. Hell, you slap Ice Beam on it or Ice Fang, you get rid of Gliscor, help dent the shit out of Hippowdon, and prevent Garchomp from revenge killing you even if you had 2 Dragon Dances and are uncapable of OHKOing him with Crunch.

Now with the team as Gliscor, Tentacruel, Tyranitar, Vaporeon, Lucario, you have room for that random special tank. Slap a Dusknoir, Blissey, Cresselia, Cradily, whatever, your choice.

And regarding the starter, I'd probably do Tyranitar. If you get a good match up, I'd predict right off the start and just use Ice Beam. You see what they got, and if their defense was like Gliscor, you just helped yourself for when you bring back in Tar later.
 
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Cradilly @ Leftovers
"Automagnus"
Suction Cups
Careful
252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD


This thing is annoying. IMO you need more pokemon that can actually attack. Bronzong call wall the crap out of you (lawl).
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
I'm probably going to go on a limb and say Bronzong probably isn't going to do much back..
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yeah i know. that was an "inside post" (is there such a thing?). we battled yesterday and it was Cradily +6 def and +6 s.def, vs my bronzong. He was burned so it was a major stall war. I believe i was going to win that war, But he ran before we saw the outcome.
 
Your Cradily set seems poorly thought out. Stockpile would suggest it is intended to stall, but it's only offensive move has 8PP. I understand that it's intended to work in tandem with Toxic Spikes, but I'd still switch that over to Rock Slide for the additional PP.

CBHera slaughters you but you already know that, but be careful about just randomly slapping in Gliscor as Weavile's pretty harsh on this team; with a CB he can OHKO Tyranitar, Gengar, Torterra and Cradily whilst Night Slash is hitting Tentacruel for about 75%. The last thing you want to do is go and throw away your only Weavile counter in exchange for a Poke with a 4x Ice weak.

Aeroblacktyl's suggested team seems solid, but you'd be dropping Spikes out of the equation which sorta spoils your idea of "I wanted a team that could use every type of spikes." If you were to use a Psychic Cresselia as your special tank, that might remedy your Mixape weak enough for you to drop Tentacruel for a Forretress with Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin/Gyro Ball. This would solve any Weavile weaknesses and restore your ability to use all Spikes...I doubt Forry will get enough time to finish the job even with Wish support, but at least it gives you the freedom to choose.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
I don't think Gengar is the greatest idea in the world for what you're trying to do. Imagine you have to switch it on Stealth Rocks, that's 12%, so now for every hit you land, that's an additional 16%. So after 2 attacks you're already down to 56% left. That's not so attractive. If you really wanted a place to put that Lucario, that's the perfect place.
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You have a point but as a "spikes team" it'd be folly for me to not run a ghost. Anyone could just spin away my spikes whenever they feel like. All the same, I have faced exactly that situation and I dont like how fast gengar loses HP that way. I was thinking that changing my Gengar's item to a choice scarf might not only help to conserve HP, but also help to remedy my Tauntrados weakness.


Aeroblacktyl said:
Now you add in your DDTyranitar. Crunch and Earthquake are good, but do you really want to have Substitute?
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Truth be told, I hardly ever get to use that move slot, but I'll give taunt another try


Aeroblacktyl said:
Now with the team as Gliscor, Tentacruel, Tyranitar, Vaporeon, Lucario, you have room for that random special tank. Slap a Dusknoir, Blissey, Cresselia, Cradily, whatever, your choice.
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I feel I might be being a little difficult w/ your suggestions, but I dont like the x3 ground weakness that comes with Tentacruel, T-tar and Lucario. Anything that's fast and has EQ could come through and wreak havok


Aeroblacktyl said:
And regarding the starter, I'd probably do Tyranitar. If you get a good match up, I'd predict right off the start and just use Ice Beam. You see what they got, and if their defense was like Gliscor, you just helped yourself for when you bring back in Tar later.
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I have 2 reasons for not using T-tar as the starter. The first is that not everything on my team is immune to sandstorm (obviously) and I dont want them take ss dammage unless its really necessary. Second, Abomasnow is slower than T-tar, so its ability goes second. In the case that I do face a hail team, I'd be switching to to deal w/ abomasnow and that would make starting w/ T-tar a disadvantage.

Thanks for all your suggestions Aeroblacktyl and evr1 else
 
Lee said:
Your Cradily set seems poorly thought out. Stockpile would suggest it is intended to stall, but it's only offensive move has 8PP. I understand that it's intended to work in tandem with Toxic Spikes, but I'd still switch that over to Rock Slide for the additional PP.
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You've got a good point, because I have found myself wondering if I would have enough pp left over at times to deal w/ other threats. I'll switch to Rock Slide
 
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