yes i forgot to put it as an alternative to stone edge in my set, i actually really like it
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Pokémon Rhyperior
- Thread starter Panda Monium
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Those are only 2x super effective moves that are physical. Now let's take a look at 4x super effective special moves.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 963-1139 (221.8 - 262.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 462-549 (106.4 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 423-498 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 945-1116 (217.7 - 257.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 616-729 (141.9 - 167.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We all know that Rhyperior is a great physical wall, tanking strong physical hits that are super effective, but it has a horrible defensive typing, making it quadweak to water and grass, which are common special attack types, making it hard for rhyperior to activate his weakness policy safely considering that most people know that rhyperior is a boss at tanking physical hits, they won't attack with physical attacks. Instead, they will likely send in a special attacker with a water or grass type and completely demolish rhyperior. Of course, as you mentioned, it is also very situational, and can be hard to activate.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 963-1139 (221.8 - 262.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 462-549 (106.4 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 423-498 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 945-1116 (217.7 - 257.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 616-729 (141.9 - 167.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We all know that Rhyperior is a great physical wall, tanking strong physical hits that are super effective, but it has a horrible defensive typing, making it quadweak to water and grass, which are common special attack types, making it hard for rhyperior to activate his weakness policy safely considering that most people know that rhyperior is a boss at tanking physical hits, they won't attack with physical attacks. Instead, they will likely send in a special attacker with a water or grass type and completely demolish rhyperior. Of course, as you mentioned, it is also very situational, and can be hard to activate.
Rock Blast is used on more defensive Rhyperior, as the ability to break sashes and subs is important, but stone edge is more consistent in a way (in terms of damage, and obviously not in terms of accuracy lol) , and only has 5% less accuracy iirc, so Stone Edge is probably used for a more offensive rhyperior
lol who the fuck uses rhyperior and expect it to be able to tank 4x special supereffective moves. and is not that no one will use physical attacks against it because it is too good defensively on the physical side, it doesn't have recovery so if you accumulate damage you will manage to overwhelm it, so there are chance for it to activate its weakness policy more or less safely. however as i said before wp is a bad item
If you cannot expect your rhyperior to tank 4x special super effective moves, then why leave it in on it? And so then, by that logic if you kept switching out whenever you saw a greninja or something, you would never get your WP activated. And yes, I do agree with you that WP is a bad item in general.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand through Light Screen: 289-342 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand through Light Screen: 249-294 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand through Light Screen: 213-254 (57.4 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Look at what it takes to make Rhyperior take special hits even remotely comfortably. I threw Assault Vest on just for amusement. There's no point in investing with EVs because without at least max speed Adamant you can't outspeed Keldeo at +2, and you'd need Jolly for Greninja.
The point is people don't target Rhyperior with physical moves when he is this weak on the special side even with Solid Rock. So unless you switch into a 2x SE physical move of your own accord, you won't bait the enemy into attacking you with it and at that point, you're so slow you likely won't be able to pull off your Rock Polish anyway.
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand through Light Screen: 249-294 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand through Light Screen: 213-254 (57.4 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Look at what it takes to make Rhyperior take special hits even remotely comfortably. I threw Assault Vest on just for amusement. There's no point in investing with EVs because without at least max speed Adamant you can't outspeed Keldeo at +2, and you'd need Jolly for Greninja.
The point is people don't target Rhyperior with physical moves when he is this weak on the special side even with Solid Rock. So unless you switch into a 2x SE physical move of your own accord, you won't bait the enemy into attacking you with it and at that point, you're so slow you likely won't be able to pull off your Rock Polish anyway.
Rock Blast is 90% (the same as Rock Slide) while Stone Edge is 80%, so it's a 10% difference.
rock blast has some more "utility" breaking sashes and subs and as you said is used more on defensive versions, but in OU all rhyperior's sets are more or less defensive or at least support set, the only offensive is double dance that is tbh almost never used
Are you talking about giving Rhyperior an Assault Vest so it has the bulk to get to +2 to outspeed Keldeo? How does it get to +2?
i think that it was an example of how weak it is on the special side, saying it needs assault vest and solid rock to survive those hits
Assault Vest, Solid Rock, in Sand, with Light Screen...
oh lol, didn't see that, it was strange it could survive specs hpump with 0 investments
I'm on my phone rn, so I can't do any calcs, but in the scope of OU, rhyperior is most relevant for dealing with mons like Megamence (ie. Sub dd). Assuming that you can break the sub with at least two hits, it is always superior to Stone Edge (even if sub wasn't a thing, rock blast tends to be a strong option).
And i see no reason as to why this recent discussion is happening. We do not need half of a page to realize that rhyperior can't take 4x effective special attacks
And i see no reason as to why this recent discussion is happening. We do not need half of a page to realize that rhyperior can't take 4x effective special attacks
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He gets Ice Punch, not sure if it's relevant to the discussion about countering Mega Mence.
ice punch does the same damage as stone edge, it doesn't miss tho. however nearly every set posted in this thread features ice punch
Ice Punch hits most of rhyperior's counters like garchomp, lando-t and gliscor, which ice punch hits for 4x super effective damage while stone edge is only neutral + STAB and misses like 70% of the time.
Ice Punch base power against 4x weak mons
75 x 4 = 300
Stone Edge neutral base power
100 x 1.5 = 150
also ice punch is more reliable even against 2x super effective mons because stone edge misses wayyy too much
So ice punch is more reliable in countering mega mence because it hits rhyperior's other counters too
Ice Punch base power against 4x weak mons
75 x 4 = 300
Stone Edge neutral base power
100 x 1.5 = 150
also ice punch is more reliable even against 2x super effective mons because stone edge misses wayyy too much
So ice punch is more reliable in countering mega mence because it hits rhyperior's other counters too
Rhyperior is a part of the tier RU. That would make many people think it automatically has nothing to do in higher tiers than RU, but think again, because Rhyperior actually has quite a few niches going for it that you shouldn’t underestimate. Here is a good OU set for it:
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Rock Blast
- Ice Punch/Dragon Tail
First things first: an outstanding 115/130 physical bulk. It can take physical hits really well, and can check a good amount of OU threats, including Garchomp, Dragonite, Charizard-X and etc. With a high base attack of 140 is well appreciated as well. A Ground/Rock typing to give it good resistances and immunity to electric type is not bad, especially with Pokémon such as Zapdos around in the OU tier, not being able to deal with Rhyperior, and it can check it with Stone Edge or Rock Blast eventually. Dragon Tail could be a good idea, after you have got Stealth Rock up, to grant hazard damage, and eventually to get rid of something like Chansey that could cause trouble for it with Toxic-damage. Strong OU physical attackers that attempts to take out Rhyperior will have hard time considering its solid physical defense. Couple that with Rhyperiors ability to dash out good damage back, potentially OHKO-ing or 2HKO-ing many of the lethal OU threats is what makes it an underrated Pokémon in my eyes. STAB Earthquake is always powerful, STAB Stone Edge or Rock Blast to give it a niche in OU, and Ice Punch to deal with the common threats that are 4x weak to Ice. You should considering giving this Pokemon a chance.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Rock Blast
- Ice Punch/Dragon Tail
First things first: an outstanding 115/130 physical bulk. It can take physical hits really well, and can check a good amount of OU threats, including Garchomp, Dragonite, Charizard-X and etc. With a high base attack of 140 is well appreciated as well. A Ground/Rock typing to give it good resistances and immunity to electric type is not bad, especially with Pokémon such as Zapdos around in the OU tier, not being able to deal with Rhyperior, and it can check it with Stone Edge or Rock Blast eventually. Dragon Tail could be a good idea, after you have got Stealth Rock up, to grant hazard damage, and eventually to get rid of something like Chansey that could cause trouble for it with Toxic-damage. Strong OU physical attackers that attempts to take out Rhyperior will have hard time considering its solid physical defense. Couple that with Rhyperiors ability to dash out good damage back, potentially OHKO-ing or 2HKO-ing many of the lethal OU threats is what makes it an underrated Pokémon in my eyes. STAB Earthquake is always powerful, STAB Stone Edge or Rock Blast to give it a niche in OU, and Ice Punch to deal with the common threats that are 4x weak to Ice. You should considering giving this Pokemon a chance.
Pure theorymon but there might be some merits to sp.def. rhyperior in the current meta:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 343-406 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Rhyperior: 296-348 (68.2 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 133-158 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Magnezone and Latios otherwise 1hko and thundurus 2hkos the full physical version.
Even uninvested he's doing his main job of checking more than half of the Salamences out there (the ones that only have 1 attack)
100 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 84-100 (19.3 - 23%)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 181-213 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But of course you will lose to Garchomps and such with that spread.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 195-231 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Take it for what you will.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 343-406 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Rhyperior: 296-348 (68.2 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 133-158 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Magnezone and Latios otherwise 1hko and thundurus 2hkos the full physical version.
Even uninvested he's doing his main job of checking more than half of the Salamences out there (the ones that only have 1 attack)
100 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 84-100 (19.3 - 23%)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 181-213 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But of course you will lose to Garchomps and such with that spread.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 195-231 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Take it for what you will.
I don't think it's worth it dropping physical bulk to be able to tank 1 hit from those pokemon and however being crippled by them. Rhyperior's niche in OU is being one of the sturdiest things on the physical side and check many physical threat, if you weaken it, it loses it effectiveness. However it might be an option, i don't know if it can actually work, this is just my opinion
Look, the end of story with Rhyperior is this: If you're using it as a special wall/tank, you're doing it wrong.
Rhyperior is a physical check to bird spam, Mence and Charizard-X, as well as a solid switch in to just about everything physical (not water, mind you). What beats him physically can generally be covered by amoongus or Chesnaught (talking Azumarill, Gyarados-m in general, Bisharp/Exca in Ches's case and a better answer to azumarill in Amoongus'). The lack of recovery is literally the only damning factor of Rhyperior at all.
Which is why I think that one of the most solid physically defensive core for stall/balance in ORAS is going to be ChesPerior. Realistically, only bounce gyarados, MMedi/MGallade, Mega Glalie, Scizor (for Rhyperior lacking Fire Punch) and Azumarill spamming play rough (when you are switching chesnaught in) can beat it with consistency. You can still kill Azumarill with SeedBomb Chesnaught and Bounce Gyara is rarer (and manageable in the same way that Tran+Celebi handled it in 4/5). Add Slowbro and you should not have a problem with any physical attackers. Your worst enemy at that point is Rhyperior's recovery and covering the special meta. The only threat is Roost MScizor if you lack Fire Punch on Rhypeior, or Fire Blast on Mega Bro.
The core has other benefits besides defense. The first is that Rhyperior is one of the most consistent rock setters and sets against things that hate rocks in the first place, meaning whenever a bird comes out, you force it out of the field and get free rocks. Chesnaught gets spikes, so your hazard pressure is already climbing through the roof. And both of them take 6% from rocks, making them easy pivots, even on annoying shit like scarf landorus. Not to mention chesnaught and rhyperior both have nice attacks and great stabs. So far, every team I've made in ORAS has used this core and the only deviation I've made has been when a team lacks the ability to take down special attackers.
Rhyperior is a physical check to bird spam, Mence and Charizard-X, as well as a solid switch in to just about everything physical (not water, mind you). What beats him physically can generally be covered by amoongus or Chesnaught (talking Azumarill, Gyarados-m in general, Bisharp/Exca in Ches's case and a better answer to azumarill in Amoongus'). The lack of recovery is literally the only damning factor of Rhyperior at all.
Which is why I think that one of the most solid physically defensive core for stall/balance in ORAS is going to be ChesPerior. Realistically, only bounce gyarados, MMedi/MGallade, Mega Glalie, Scizor (for Rhyperior lacking Fire Punch) and Azumarill spamming play rough (when you are switching chesnaught in) can beat it with consistency. You can still kill Azumarill with SeedBomb Chesnaught and Bounce Gyara is rarer (and manageable in the same way that Tran+Celebi handled it in 4/5). Add Slowbro and you should not have a problem with any physical attackers. Your worst enemy at that point is Rhyperior's recovery and covering the special meta. The only threat is Roost MScizor if you lack Fire Punch on Rhypeior, or Fire Blast on Mega Bro.
The core has other benefits besides defense. The first is that Rhyperior is one of the most consistent rock setters and sets against things that hate rocks in the first place, meaning whenever a bird comes out, you force it out of the field and get free rocks. Chesnaught gets spikes, so your hazard pressure is already climbing through the roof. And both of them take 6% from rocks, making them easy pivots, even on annoying shit like scarf landorus. Not to mention chesnaught and rhyperior both have nice attacks and great stabs. So far, every team I've made in ORAS has used this core and the only deviation I've made has been when a team lacks the ability to take down special attackers.
This core seems really solid, But basing off of what you said, ferrothorn seems to be a better option over chesnaught. If covers everything you mentioned, except being less able to take on sharp and exca, but it also helps checking many other threats that would otherwise demolish the core namely non-hp fire ninja and lat@s for example and it is not a free switch-in for defogger/spinner like lati@s or starmie, which ches is, Making keeping up hazards Much easier. These things make the core far more autosufficient
Here's your issue with Ferrothorn: It has no offensive pressure to beat what you take on. It's a very key part of partnering with Rhyperior: You have to destroy the pokemon within the time that Rhypeior can stay healthy. He DOESN'T have recovery, and even leech seed Ferro isn't going to save that, because it's pretty unlikely you'll be getting any HP from that. Ferro can't kill what he counters very quickly, meaning Rhyperior could very easily be dead or irrelevant by time Ferro has done his job.
Avalanche is great on Rhyperior, it outdamages Ice Punch if it takes a hit and it's not outspeeding much anyway.
I don't think it makes a lot of difference because you basically use Ice punch as super effective coverage especially vs x4 weak pokemon
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