Ribbit: Poliwrath Discussion

ADH

Poliwrath.png

#062 Poliwrath
Base Stats: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 95 Def / 70 SAtk / 90 SDef / 70 Spd
Trait: Damp (Self-Destruct and Explosion cannot be used)
Trait: Water Absorb (water attacks against Poliwrath are absorbed into up to 25% of max HP)

Notable Physical Movepool
Brick Break
Waterfall
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Poison Jab
Ice Punch

Notable Support Movepool
Bulk Up
Belly Drum
Hypnosis

Poliwrath may not have much in the way of a movepool, but thanks to its typing and stat allocation it makes for a good counter to things in D/P's OU (or at least how it's perceived).

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish (+Def -SAtk)
EVs: 152 HP / 220 Atk / 136 Def
Trait: Water Absorb
-Waterfall
-Brick Break
-Rock Slide
-Bulk Up / Earthquake

359 HP / 261 Atk / 286 Def / 176 Spd / 158 SAtk / 216 SDef

First off, here's the damage calcs for this fun Poliwrath.

Poliwrath Being Attacked
Tyranitar
:403 Atk CB Crunch = 25.3% - 30.0%
:403 Atk CB Stone Edge = 31.7% - 37.3%
:403 Atk CB Earthquake = 42.3% - 49.8%
:403 Atk CB Pursuit = 12.8% - 15.0%
:403 Atk CB Thunder Fang = 55.4% - 65.1%
Rhyperior
:416 Atk CB Stone Edge = 32.8% - 38.4%
:416 Atk CB Megahorn = 26.1% - 30.6%
:416 Atk CB Avalanche = 13.0% - 15.3%
:416 Atk CB Avalanche (attacked) = 26.1% - 30.6%
:416 Atk CB Earthquake = 65.7% - 77.1%
Gyarados
:383 Atk CB / DD Earthquake = 40.3% - 47.3%
:383 Atk CB / DD Ice Fang = 13.0% - 15.3%
:383 Atk CB / DD Stone Edge = 20.0% - 23.6%

Poliwrath Attacking
Tyranitar: 4 HP / 0 Def neutral
:Brick Break = 98.8% - 116.0%
:Waterfall = 52.6% - 61.6%
Tyranitar: 252 HP / 0 Def neutral
:Brick Break = 83.6% - 98.2%
:Waterfall = 44.5% - 52.2%
Rhyperior: 4 HP / 0 Def neutral
:Brick Break = 26.0% - 30.6%
:Waterfall = 55.6% - 65.5%
Rhyperior: 252 HP / 252 Def Impish
:Brick Break = 16.8% - 20.0%
:Waterfall = 36.1% - 42.6%
Gyarados: 4 HP / 0 Def neutral (Intimidate)
:Rock Slide = 29.8% - 34.9%
Gyarados: 116 HP / 140 Def neutral (Intimidate)
:Rock Slide = 23.3% - 27.5%
Gyarados: 4 HP / 0 Def neutral
:Rock Slide = 44.2% - 52.1%
Gyarados: 116 HP / 140 Def neutral
:Rock Slide = 34.7% - 40.8%

You could stick a CB on Poliwrath to do more damage, but then Tyranitar 2HKOs you with CB Earthquake thanks to Sandstorm. This Poliwrath does considerable damage to lots of opponents with its attacks, but must work off of super-effectives to do decent damage.
 
No Stone Edge is a disappointment, as it would make a fairly decent Gyarados counter. As it stands, Rock Slide just doesn't do enough damage. I'd probably go with Hypnosis over Earthquake or Bulk Up.
 
I do love your Pokémon discussions, ADH. They're well-formatted and full of useful information.

I'm really excited about Poliwrath in D/P, but it's not specifically for its ability to take out standards. It's because it is now the best Belly Drummer in Double Battles. Check this out:

Poliwrath
Waterfall
Wake-Up Slap
Hypnosis
Belly Drum

Nature: Adamant
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: Really up to taste and fitting in with the rest of the team. Probably max out HP.

This thing would work best alongside something with Surf and maybe Fake Out (Ludicolo?). Whenever its partner uses Surf, it hits both opponents and heals 25% of Poliwrath's health. Poliwrath's defenses mean that it should be able to take an attack from one of its opponents and still be able to use Belly Drum.

Poliwrath is also the reason Wake-Up Slap was invented (well, along with Breloom).
 
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: Depends
Trait: Water Absorb
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Brick Break
-Bulk Up
-Rock Slide/ Earthquake

This is what I would use. I'm pretty sure it gets surf so is there any reason to use it over waterfall? Hydro Pump since you have a -SAtk nature. Bulk Up so you can set up. Then either Rock Slide or EQ. It depends more if you want to cover flying types or if you want to cover electric, poison, fire, and rock types. But then again, I'm not the best at movesets. The only thing left for me to say is it would be best to bring it in on smething weakened or paralyzed.
 
Coincidentally I had been seriously considering Poliwrath for a number of teams.

Pros:

* rock resist, dark resist, neutral to ground; about as good as can be hoped for in a T-tar switch target
* water absorb
* hypnosis
* adequate defenses and walls Gyarados reasonably
* faster than key pokemon with little/no EVs, notably Swampert, Rhyperior and maybe Magnezone.
* has the coolest emoticon :@
* is my avatar and therefore is awesome by association

Cons:

* vulnerable to almost every special sweeper
* poor attacker, it is just not threatening with those stats
* Poliwrath is never going to outspeed too much

Moveset:

Poliwrath
~ Impish/water absorb @leftovers
Waterfall
Rock slide
Rain dance
Hypnosis

This is the support moveset I was mulling over. It switches in easily enough with its trait, typing and T-tar resistances. Rain dance clears sandstream and your opponent can't abuse it because of water absorb.

Verdict:

I was so close to using Poliwrath... and if it had slightly higher attack, defense and HP, I would have given it a chance. A recovery move would not go amiss either. The reality is that its stats are just too mediocre. Beyond a semi-useful novelty, it has no place in standard.

Edit: no stone edge.
 
Poliwrath cannot learn Stone Edge, surprisingly, hence why Rock Slide is on that set I posted. It can be put on a team to fill holes and weakness to CBtar / CBperior / DDdos, preferably along with a ground resist, but outside of that it doesn't do much too well.
 
It is too bad that Poliwrath can't get Stone Edge though, at least that's what Serebii says.

Poliwrath has been one of my favorites ever since RBY but as McGraw said mediocre stats make it outclassed by many other things and therefore will likely just be relegated to BL once again. :/ Still though, always fun to use, and Hypnosis + Wake-Up Slap has some possibilities, but then again who would stay in right after you put them to sleep anyway?
 
striker64 said:
but then again who would stay in right after you put them to sleep anyway?
Click to expand...

Sleep Talkers, who if they know your poliwrath has hypnosis will try to take advantage of it.

That's the good thing about Wake-Up Slap. It does heavy damage and neutralizes sleep talk.
 
SDShamshel said:
Sleep Talkers, who if they know your poliwrath has hypnosis will try to take advantage of it.

That's the good thing about Wake-Up Slap. It does heavy damage and neutralizes sleep talk.
Click to expand...

I completely forgot about that. That makes an excellent Sleep Talk counter then.
 
Mysterious Stallion said:
Ive been reading about how hyped Gyarados is and was looking for a decent counter to stop him in his tracks. After a while of searching, I found an answer that was unexpected...Poliwrath! The typical Gyara moveset of DDance, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Ice Fang is completely resisted by Poliwrath, and can get free health versus Waterfall. Even better is that a 252 Atk Adamant Gyara (which will almost never be seen) using Stone Edge versus a 252 HP/252 Def Neutral nature Poliwrath does a piddly 18-22 % damage. Thats pretty darn good.

I was thinking about a moveset such as this.

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - S. Atk)
EV's: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def (can probably run less defence then that)
Hypnosis
Focus Punch
Rock Slide
Waterfall

Focus Punch or Hypnosis if you predict Gyara switching out. Rock Slide and Waterfall arent resisted by much.
Click to expand...

My Poliwrath set i devised in the "Viable Gyarados Counter" thread
 
The problem with Rock Slide is that has pretty low Base Paser (75 = Meh...) and running of Poliwrath Base 85 Atk and non boosted...well just for hitting Super Effective, if Poli had Stone Edge would be much better :S

And what about Ice Punch??, or you prefer to leave the Ice attacks to other Pokemon???
 
I was considering Poliwrath in my team, as I quickly realised that Fighting types stand a sporting chance of countering Tyranitar (and no, it's not because of Tyranitar being x4 weak to Fighting, it's because Fighting resists both Crunch and Stone Edge). It also kinda counters Heracross, too, being resistant also to Megahorn, but STAB Close Combat hurts.

This thing needs speed, though, more than attack, in my opinion. With more speed, Choice Band or even Expert Belt would have made up for the average attack stat (and lack of Stone Edge). Choice Scarf would still lead to Poliwrath dealing too little damage to the things it is supposed to counter, as it needs EVs in defenses to counter them well anyway.
 
Two Brick Breaks probably do more damage than a Hypnosis and an Awaken Slap anyway, I wouldn't ever bother with it. And yes, this thing's stats are average all around which tends not to cut it, but at least it can sweep UU with Belly Drum easily. Resistance to the Ice, Steel and Water Quick Attacks helps a lot.
 
I think Expert Belt Poliwrath could pose some problems in OU

Poliwrath (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 128 HP / 144 Atk / 50 Def / 188 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Brick Break/Focus Punch
-Waterfall
-Hypnosis
-Ice Punch

OHKOs MaxHP/noDef Ttar with Brick Break 100% of the time, which should cover those "less than max HP, but some defence also" TTars. Unfortunately, it doesn't come close to 2hkoing Heracross (338HP/no Def = 36%-43%). Ice Punch is a filler, and Hypnosis because of the sexy 70% accuracy...
 
What are the calculations for Garchomp vs Poliwrath? If Poliwrath is somewhat decent at countering it I may use it on one of my teams.
 
poliwrath rules =) ill find a use for it, i swear. probably the thing that benefitted this pokemon the most was a more accurate hypnosis, so i cant imagine seeing a wrath set revolving around it somehow
 
hp [leaves] said:
What are the calculations for Garchomp vs Poliwrath? If Poliwrath is somewhat decent at countering it I may use it on one of my teams.
Click to expand...

Not very good. STAB Earthquakes are bad for Poliwrath, it necessitates he carries Ice Punch for Garchomp who isn't going to be OHKOed by it (2HKO against 4 HP / min def I think) and the only attack that Poliwrath resists on non-CB Garchomp is Fire Fang.

Swords Dance Earthquake nearly OHKOs I think, I can't damage calc right now.
 
Please remember that Poliwrath counters Manaphy. I'm too lazy to figure out which Base Power Grass Rope has on it, but Poliwrath is one of the lighter water types. I'm too lazy to run Damage Calcs right now, but with Surf Immunity and a resistance to Ice Beam, Poliwrath can stop Manaphy. It all depends on if Brick Break is a 3HKO or not.

Also, looks really nice as a TTar counter. Rhyperior might pose problems with STAB EQ and Gyarados is just too hard to kill with Rock Slide. It works, but I prefer Lucario because it counters TTar and SkarmBliss.
 
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