Doubles Ribombee

[Idyll]

[OVERVIEW]

As the only viable Sticky Web setter in DOU, Ribombee has a niche in the most aggressive of hyper offense teams as a unique speed control support option, albeit one with an inconsistent matchup spread. Ribombee's high Speed and Shield Dust, which prevents flinching from Fake Out, make it a reliable Sticky Web setter, stopped only by a combination of priority and the few faster Pokemon in the metagame such as Zeraora and Dragapult. It also has access to Tailwind, which gives its team the Speed advantage before foes switch in and out to activate Sticky Web. This support makes Ribombee quite effective against fast teams such as rain and Naganadel-centric teams, giving strong teammates such as Urshifu-R and Zygarde both a lasting and an immediate Speed advantage. Ribombee's biggest problems, however, are its one-dimensional, telegraphed kit and polarized matchups. It practically has to be led in every game in order to actually take advantage of Sticky Web. Further, Sticky Web is useless against common ungrounded foes such as Landorus and Zapdos, and the move is outright detrimental against slower, bulkier teams running Trick Room. Even more, its frailty gives it zero defensive utility, making it completely dead weight in matchups where Sticky Web isn't useful, and Steel-types such as Celesteela and Genesect easily exploit its STAB coverage. Ribombee's dependence on running into a workable matchup often leaves it outshined by more consistent and simpler speed control options such as Mew, Naganadel, and Assault Vest Kyurem-B.

[SET]
name: Speed Control
move 1: Sticky Web
move 2: Tailwind
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Pollen Puff
item: Focus Sash
ability: Shield Dust
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Tailwind, in practice, is most useful immediately after setting Sticky Web, before the entry hazard actually takes effect.

* Moonblast is its main attacking option, giving good neutral coverage and hitting Dragon-types such as Kyurem-B and Zygarde, as well as Urshifu-R, super effectively.

* Pollen Puff comes in handy as a super effective option against Psychic-types such as Mew and Cresselia, as well as Rillaboom. It also has nifty utility in healing up a weakened attacker teammate, handy for coming off better when trading damage.

* Shield Dust is used specifically to prevent Fake Out from the likes of Rillaboom and Incineroar from flinching Ribombee, letting it set Sticky Web unopposed, and it also comes in handy for avoiding the Speed drop from Kyurem-B's Icy Wind.

* Focus Sash hides Ribombee's frailty a bit, helping it set both Sticky Web and Tailwind.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Ally Switch lets Ribombee surprise foes by unexpectedly taking a hit for its partner. Getting KOed lets Ribombee give a free switch to a more offensive teammate once it's done providing speed control. Protect can be used because Ribombee is a common victim of double-targeting, as its main moveset is generally expected and inflexible, thus letting Ribombee waste an opponent's turn while preserving itself. Fake Tears alongside strong special attackers such as Nihilego and Heatran can be used to quickly overwhelm a specific foe, but its narrow applications make it an unappealing option.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Memoric, 215000]]
- Quality checked by: [[dnagerbdager, 531334], [Yoda2798, 243661]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

 

[zoe]

Make the overview/oo into the standard paragraph form firstly, makes it easier to read yada yada yada

[OVERVIEW]

• Mention some of the specific matchups it struggles in, you'd rather not leave people guessing.
• It often only being able to get off one of Webs or Tailwind is rather important and ties into its fraility.

[SET]

• I am currently under the impression you need to give each move its own line sooooooooooooooooo.
• While your on it, give specific targets for both attacking moves (I know it's job isn't to be offensively threatening but it's still worth a mention imo)
• Give Shield Dust a line.

[OTHER OPTIONS]

• Looks good

Only real issue I have with this is the form, but that's probably not going to affect the quality so you get the check.

QC 1/2

 

[Idyll]

to be clear to everyone, the ideal procedure is to do bullets first for Overview and OO for the first check so we can focus more on content and then to properly do the write up for the second; we've just been ignoring people going straight into the write-up form since it doesn't really matter too much.

re: webs tailwind point

[9:04 AM] ricemom: It often only being able to get off one of Webs or Tailwind is rather important and ties into its fraility. - disagree with this because it only needs to set webs and tailwind is often just a bonus
[9:10 AM] dnagerbdager: i'll take the L on the webs+tailwind line
[9:10 AM] dnagerbdager: more subjective than I thought[/B]

implemented.

 

[Darkmalice]

I think the order of the moves should be changed to reflect their overal usefulness:

name: Speed Control
move 1: Sticky Web
move 2: Tailwind
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Pollen Puff
item: Focus Sash
ability: Shield Dust
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Sticky Web is the reason you're using Bee, so that should be #1. Tailwind is the next priority, which may sometimes be preferable to use than Sticky Web. Moonblast is next as your best neutral source of damage and super-effective against a few common Pokemon. Pollen Puff is last since it has poor neutral coverage, and you rarely find an opportunity to utilise its healing effect, except maybe against TR teams where you don't bother with Sticky Web and Tailwind. Pollen Puff is the move that should be generally replaced for OO.

Naganadel (121) is slower than Bee (124).

Would change the introduction to reflect why Bee is inconsistent. Its inconsistency largely stems from the team matchups e.g. Trick Room teams, teams with multipler floaters. Although it often has to lead, it's consistent at getting up Sticky Webs with Shield Dust and high Speed, especially alongside an ever common Fake Out teammate, but it often doesn't get to do more than that. The two main Pokemon that can stop it are Dragapult (faster and immune to Fake Out) and Zeroara (also faster and has Taunt) in combination with a Fake Out (which must be faster than your Fake Out user in the case of Dragapult - Pult is also risky since it can be OHKOed by Moonblast). It's reliance on Sash means that even though it is immune to being flinched by Fake Out, it can be KOed by the combination of Fake Out (or another priority move) and a faster super-effective hit like Specs Pult Flamethrower. Outside of the team match up issue, it's arguably more consistent than the other Pokemon mentioned: consistent speed control options such as Mew, Naganadel, and AV Kyurem-B. The differences stem more in that those Pokemon offer traits beyond a hyper-offence lead for Speed control. Mew and Kyurem-B have bulk and unpredictabity, and Naganadel has offence pressure and resistances. (Bee does have some notable resistance match-ups, like against Rillaboom and Zygarde, which you can use to not lead against some teams, but this is uncommon and risky to rely on).

Clear Body users should also be mentioned as being immune to Webs, in particular Dragapult and Metagross.

Perhaps in OO Protect and Speed Swap? I would OO order Protect, Fake Tears, Speed Swap, Helping Hand, and Ally Switch. The latter two I consider Bee to a poor user of, as they generally suit bulkier and often slower Pokemon that can better utilise the moves and rely less on their Speed to provide support.

 

[Idyll]

I think the order of the moves should be changed to reflect their overal usefulness:

name: Speed Control
move 1: Sticky Web
move 2: Tailwind
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Pollen Puff
item: Focus Sash
ability: Shield Dust
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Sticky Web is the reason you're using Bee, so that should be #1. Tailwind is the next priority, which may sometimes be preferable to use than Sticky Web. Moonblast is next as your best neutral source of damage and super-effective against a few common Pokemon. Pollen Puff is last since it has poor neutral coverage, and you rarely find an opportunity to utilise its healing effect, except maybe against TR teams where you don't bother with Sticky Web and Tailwind. Pollen Puff is the move that should be generally replaced for OO.

Naganadel (121) is slower than Bee (124).

Would change the introduction to reflect why Bee is inconsistent. Its inconsistency largely stems from the team matchups e.g. Trick Room teams, teams with multipler floaters. Although it often has to lead, it's consistent at getting up Sticky Webs with Shield Dust and high Speed, especially alongside an ever common Fake Out teammate, but it often doesn't get to do more than that. The two main Pokemon that can stop it are Dragapult (faster and immune to Fake Out) and Zeroara (also faster and has Taunt) in combination with a Fake Out (which must be faster than your Fake Out user in the case of Dragapult - Pult is also risky since it can be OHKOed by Moonblast). It's reliance on Sash means that even though it is immune to being flinched by Fake Out, it can be KOed by the combination of Fake Out (or another priority move) and a faster super-effective hit like Specs Pult Flamethrower. Outside of the team match up issue, it's arguably more consistent than the other Pokemon mentioned: consistent speed control options such as Mew, Naganadel, and AV Kyurem-B. The differences stem more in that those Pokemon offer traits beyond a hyper-offence lead for Speed control. Mew and Kyurem-B have bulk and unpredictabity, and Naganadel has offence pressure and resistances. (Bee does have some notable resistance match-ups, like against Rillaboom and Zygarde, which you can use to not lead against some teams, but this is uncommon and risky to rely on).

Clear Body users should also be mentioned as being immune to Webs, in particular Dragapult and Metagross.

Perhaps in OO Protect and Speed Swap? I would OO order Protect, Fake Tears, Speed Swap, Helping Hand, and Ally Switch. The latter two I consider Bee to a poor user of, as they generally suit bulkier and often slower Pokemon that can better utilise the moves and rely less on their Speed to provide support.

great points man! lemme address these one-by-one

When I was writing the thing, I decided to order to the moves just based on the usual convention of Attacks -> Status, though I did consider it ordering like that. Reflecting on what you said now though, I think clarity to the reader should be something to reach for and that change you mentioned you helped, so I'll do that.

Naga Speed was just me having a stroke LOL will fix that

When I use inconsistent through the writeup, I don't really mean inconsistent in the sense that they Ribombee can fail at doing its job of doing speed control, but rather with I want to say that it is only useful in some matchups and can be really bad in others, in contrast to its competition I mentioned which have better matchup spreads and adequately do their particular job well more often than not. What your check made me realize is that I should use better wording regarding this; it's important that I avoid the ambiguity as, to be accurate, Rib does get Sticky Web up consistently.

Clear Body I thought about, but I elected not to include it because Dragapult is at the line of being not relevant enough and Metagross is already slow enough, anyway (Diancie exists too and it also doesn't count). This overview is already pushing it with length for a shitmon lol, so :shrug:

Protect is a good OO, I should include that. NGL I've used HH and Fake Tears like once and it was a disaster LOL but it's also the only other things that Rib gets that isn't totally bad, and I only included them so Ally Switch isn't the only mention here. I've tried Speed Swap in the past, particularly to be really funky against TR mons and as an option for giving my slow mons perma-high Speed, but I think I clicked it once in my life so lol. I'll go with Ally Switch and Protect for this OO, they're the only ones that are actual good here lol.

 

[Yoda2798]

[OVERVIEW]

• Give examples of the teammates which benefit from Ribombee.

[SET COMMENTS]

• There should be some mention of when to use Sticky Web vs Tailwind here IMO. Like saying how Sticky Web is generally the priority to use first, and Tailwind is supplementary (main exception being if Tailwind is required to move first on turn 2, but that may be too specific to mention).

[OTHER OPTIONS]

• Fake Tears in the same vein as Whimsicott has to be at least as good as Ally Switch.

Excellent as always. QC 2/2

 

[Adeleine]

Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC): Add Comma

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

As the only viable Sticky Web setter in DOU, Ribombee has a niche in the most aggressive of hyper offense teams as a unique speed control support option, albeit one with an inconsistent matchup spread against the metagame. Ribombee's high Speed and Shield Dust, which prevents flinching from Fake Out, make it a reliable Sticky Web setter, stopped only by a combination of priority and the few faster Pokemon in the metagame such as Zeraora and Dragapult. It also has access to Tailwind, a complimentary speed control option handy for giving its team the Speed advantage before Sticky Web takes effect. which gives its team the Speed advantage before foes switch in and out to activate Sticky Web. This support makes Ribombee quite effective going against opposing fast team compositions such as rain teams and Naganadel-centric offenses as its kit is fully geared towards against fast teams such as rain and Naganadel-centric teams, giving strong teammates such as Urshifu-R and Zygarde both a lasting and an immediate Speed advantage. Ribombee's biggest problems, however, are its one-dimensional, telegraphed kit and polarized matchups. It practically has to be led in every game in order to actually take advantage of Sticky Web and justify the opportunity cost of using Ribombee on a team. At the same time, Sticky Web is generally not as useful as it seems as a Speed control option, as common floating foes such as Landorus-I and Zapdos are unaffected, Web. Further, Sticky Web is useless against common ungrounded foes such as Landorus and Zapdos, and the move is also not just useless but also outright detrimental against slower, bulkier teams running Trick Room. Even more, its frailty gives it zero defensive utility, making it completely dead weight in matchups where Sticky Web isn't useful, and its STAB coverage leaves it easily exploitable by Steel-types such as Celesteela and Genesect easily exploit its STAB coverage. Ribombee's dependency dependence on running into a workable matchup often leaves it outshined by more consistent and simpler speed control options such as Mew, Naganadel, and AV Kyurem-B, all of which offer more than simple a Speed advantage. Assault Vest Kyurem-B.

[SET]
name: Speed Control
move 1: Sticky Web
move 2: Tailwind
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Pollen Puff
item: Focus Sash
ability: Shield Dust
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Sticky Web and Tailwind are Ribombee's speed control tools, the former prioritized to cripple the opposing team and the latter for the immediate Speed advantage, which in practice Tailwind, in practice, is most useful immediately after setting Sticky Web, (AC) before the entry hazard actually takes effect.

* Moonblast is its main attacking option as it has the better neutral coverage among its two STAB options, and it comes in quite useful for hitting Dragons option, giving good neutral coverage and hitting Dragon-types such as Kyurem-B and Zygarde, (AC) as well as Urshifu-R, (AC) super effectively. (added period)

* Pollen Puff is a secondary STAB move that comes in handy as a super effective option against Psychic-types such as Mew and Cresselia, (AC) as well as Rillaboom. It also has nifty utility in being able to heal healing up a weakened attacker teammate, handy for coming off better when trading damage.

* Shield Dust is used specifically to prevent Fake Out from the likes of Rillaboom and Incineroar from flinching Ribombee, letting it set Sticky Web unopposed, and it also comes in handy for not getting the Speed drop from a avoiding the Speed drop from Kyurem-B's Icy Wind.

* Full Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature maximizes Ribombee's offensive capabilities while letting it outrun as many Pokemon as possible.

* Focus Sash guarantees that Ribombee takes two attacks minimum to take down, hiding its frailty a bit. hides Ribombee's frailty a bit, helping it set both Sticky Web and Tailwind. (if you want to modify the second half of the sentence, go ahead)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Ally Switch gives Ribombee even more utility as it allows it to unexpectedly take a hit for its partner while deliberately putting Ribombee in harms way, handy for then having lets Ribombee surprise foes by unexpectedly taking a hit for its partner. Getting KOed lets Ribombee give (I imagine this makes sense?) a free switch to a more attacking-oriented teammate once Ribombee's offensive teammate once it's done providing speed control. Fake Tears in conjunction with strong special attacking teammates alongside strong special attackers such as Nihilego and Heatran can be used to quickly overwhelm a specific foe, but its narrow applications make it an unappealing option. Protect can be used as because Ribombee is a common victim of double-targeting, (AC) as its main moveset is generally expected and inflexible, handy for wasting an opponent's turn while preserving Ribombee. thus letting Ribombee waste an opponent's turn while preserving itself. (maybe it's worth putting protect sentence before fake tears sentence because you seem to describe it more positively?)

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Memoric, 215000]]
- Quality checked by: [[dnagerbdager, 531334], [Yoda2798, 243661]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

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