SM OU RMT - Balanced/Defensive Team

#1

Introduction

After not playing any competitive Pokemon since early Gen 6, I decided to come back and make a team. After mourning the decline of my favorite Pokemon, Breloom, I got to work on my team. After a few days I came up with a balanced/defensive team that I think is pretty solid. I started off with a Toxapex/Tangrowth regenerator core and then went from there. I'm not too good with introductions, so let's just move on to the team itself

Teambuilding Process


A pretty integral part of the Toxapex Tangrowth core, making up 10% of the core by weight and 44% by number of letters. But seriously, I'm not really breaking any new ground here.

Not much to say about Tangrowth. Good partner to Toxapex that can soak up a lot of hits and heal just by switching out.

The first thing I did after selecting my core was to go to the OU section on the Smogon dex, go through all of the Pokemon and find the ones that listed both Tangrowth and Toxapex under the "Team options" section, and then put them in a list. I then looked at the checks and counters section for Toxapex and Tangrowth and found that Heatran would work well with Tangrowth to counter fire types that Toxapex couldn't. It doesn't benefit the core as much as it benefits from the core since most of Heatran's counters do very poorly against Toxapex or Tangrowth. Although, I'd say of all members of my team, Heatran may be the most redundant and in need of a replacement.

Although I didn't start my team with Celesteela, it complements Toxapex and Tangrowth very well and I consider it an integral member of my team.

I needed a Pokemon that could hit hard against some of the holes in my team, such as Zapdos, that also benefited from Toxapex and Tangrowth and Mega Diancie seemed like a good choice.

Lastly, I needed a fast revenge killer that could take on the last few holes in my team, notably Greninja and Toxapex.


The Team


Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
Pretty standard set. I used to have toxic, but I wanted to try toxic spikes since my team tends to force a lot of switches. I've only played a couple games with toxic spikes and so far haven't gotten much use out of them, but I haven't played enough games to make a decision on that yet. I'ts IVs differ a bit from the standard set by moving some points from Def to Sp.Def. I didn't do any calcs and there wasn't much thought put into it other than noticing that Sp.Def was low relative to Def, so the number I have in there is kind of arbitrary.


Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake
Tangrowth is really good at soaking up damage, so it is a good switch in to many types of moves, but it rarely does any serious damage by itself and it can't run any utility moves besides knock off due to the assault vest. This is one of the two main Pokemon on my team that could use some changes/adjustments, but I'm not really sure what those changes are.


Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
This is the main Pokemon I feel needs to be reworked/replaced. Like Tangrowth, it's good to switch in to certain moves, but usually doesn't get much done before I either switch it out or it gets knocked out. So I'd really like some advice on what I should change with Heatran or if I should replace it altogether.


Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
Probably the most useful member of the team. It can tank many hits, even supereffective ones. I don't get much use out of heavy slam as fairies almost never switch into it, except for Tapu Koko, but I'm switching out in that case.


Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power
Diancie is really good at taking out certain threats that threaten the defensive core of my team. Really good counter to Zapdos, Mega-Pinsir, and almost anything it can hit with a SE move. It usually takes out only one or two Pokemon before going down, but sometimes it works well as a late game sweeper.


Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
Mainly used as a revenge killer or as a last resort when all of my other Pokemon are out.

Conclusion

I think that I put together a pretty solid team, but I also think that there is room for improvement. It has worked pretty well for me so far, although I still haven't made it past 1400 on the ladder, but I think that is more on my skill level than my team. Anyways, I would love some feedback on how to improve my team. Like I said earlier, I think the two Pokemon most in need of change are Tangrowth or Heatran, but if you see some other things that you think should be changed, please let me know.

Also, here's a link to a replay of my team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-700767089

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
 
#2
I was considering swapping out Tangrowth for Tapu Bulu. On one hand, it hits a lot harder than Tangrowth, adds another resistance to fighting and dark type, and could possibly pick off Zapdos with stone edge if I correctly predict a switch. On the other hand, it's not a as bulky as Tangrowth, it has a weakness to steel and a painful 4x weakness to poison, and while it has regen from grassy terrain and horn leach, it's no regenerator.
 
#3
You're probs gonna want to stick to the normal spread for toxi, it's there for a reason, and honestly i'd say most attackers nowerdays are special attackers, or those that are not seems to be fighting types (at least in my experiance)

I think part of the problem with this team is that you have heatran, celesteela, and tangrowth, where honestly you could have just ferrothorn since he can do everything that those 3 do all in 1 (provide rocks, leech seed, and have the grass/steel typing), which leaves you with 2 extra pokemon to add to the team. from there you're probably going to want something with u-turn/volt switch, since the team is kinda slow and has no real way to gain momentum, and another physical wall since ferro has so much to do, it could eventually get overwhelmed. the 2 that stick out to me are lando/mew, both of which can help with rocks/defog/general utility. The choice here could come down to how scared you are of medicham/ heatran since both of them destroy pex/ferro. So go with mew if you're scared of medi, and lando if you're scared of heatran. From there i'd let you choose the last pokemon!
 
#4
You're probs gonna want to stick to the normal spread for toxi, it's there for a reason, and honestly i'd say most attackers nowerdays are special attackers, or those that are not seems to be fighting types (at least in my experiance)

I think part of the problem with this team is that you have heatran, celesteela, and tangrowth, where honestly you could have just ferrothorn since he can do everything that those 3 do all in 1 (provide rocks, leech seed, and have the grass/steel typing), which leaves you with 2 extra pokemon to add to the team. from there you're probably going to want something with u-turn/volt switch, since the team is kinda slow and has no real way to gain momentum, and another physical wall since ferro has so much to do, it could eventually get overwhelmed. the 2 that stick out to me are lando/mew, both of which can help with rocks/defog/general utility. The choice here could come down to how scared you are of medicham/ heatran since both of them destroy pex/ferro. So go with mew if you're scared of medi, and lando if you're scared of heatran. From there i'd let you choose the last pokemon!
defensive zap handles m medi p well with para hax tbh, and can leave it slow enough for something else to ko
 
#5
I know that, but my point was a physical wall that has u-turn/volt switch and some other utility, as good as zap is i really dont think it would fit with scarf lati,pex, ferro. It would literally be another pokemon that heatran woudl eat alive, at least mew would have the chance to volt out.
 
#6
So I've taken out Tangrowth, Celesteela, and Heatran. After adding in Ferrothorn and Landorus, I went through their counters to try to find a sixth Pokemon that could take care of them. The main threats seemed to be M-Medicham, M-Gallade, Lele, Celesteela, Skarmory, and bulkier grass types like Tangrowth and Bulu. Blacephalon counters pretty much that whole list, so I added it as my sixth. So my new team is:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Blacephalon @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Thoughts? I have yet to test it since I just put it together and I really need to get back to work.
Edit: Diancie is great https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-701752402
 
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#8
I would run spikes ferro, SR lando and defog lati :)
That's all
Good team
I used to have defog on Lati, but got rid of it because I didn't like risking my revenge killer, especially when most of my team took little damage from hazards anyway. Plus, Thunderbolt adds more coverage which is especially useful against Greninja, who would not normally switch out against Lati. I'll consider the change though.
 
#9
If you run TSpikes Pex, Rox Lando and Spikes Ferro you don't really need Defog since most of the time your opponent will try to get rid of your hazard stack by defogging.
Pex gets rid of Tspikes on your side and Magic Bounce from MDiancie helps dealing with hazard spam on your own.
You could consider swapping Blacephalon for another steel type since most of the things that Ferro is supposed to wall (Lele for example) carry HP Fire.
If you decide to try adding another steel type, you propably need some testing since i can see different variations of Tran, Magearna and Celesteela work out here... and those are just the obvious ones.
 
#10
If you run TSpikes Pex, Rox Lando and Spikes Ferro you don't really need Defog since most of the time your opponent will try to get rid of your hazard stack by defogging.
Pex gets rid of Tspikes on your side and Magic Bounce from MDiancie helps dealing with hazard spam on your own.
You could consider swapping Blacephalon for another steel type since most of the things that Ferro is supposed to wall (Lele for example) carry HP Fire.
If you decide to try adding another steel type, you propably need some testing since i can see different variations of Tran, Magearna and Celesteela work out here... and those are just the obvious ones.
I think Blacephalon makes more sense on the team than another steel type. Heatran could fit, but it doesn't take out M-Medicham or M-Gallade and is at more risk against Bulu, which can carry superpower and Tangrowth, which can carry earthquake. And I don't think any of the other steel types would add much to my team, while Blacephalon takes care of most of the threats that the rest of the team had.

My thinking behind putting defog on Landorus-T was that it could make a good pivot into Blacephalon and M-Diancie by defogging and then U-turn into one of the two. Blacephalon especially doesn't appreciate rocks.
 
#11
I think Blacephalon makes more sense on the team than another steel type. Heatran could fit, but it doesn't take out M-Medicham or M-Gallade and is at more risk against Bulu, which can carry superpower and Tangrowth, which can carry earthquake. And I don't think any of the other steel types would add much to my team, while Blacephalon takes care of most of the threats that the rest of the team had.

My thinking behind putting defog on Landorus-T was that it could make a good pivot into Blacephalon and M-Diancie by defogging and then U-turn into one of the two. Blacephalon especially doesn't appreciate rocks.
should i rate your initial rmt or the updated team?
 
#12
should i rate your initial rmt or the updated team?
I've gone back to the original team, with some minor tweaks, so feedback on that would be great. The change I've made is that I switched from Tangrowth to AV Bulu and I've been using this Z Sunny day set on Heatran with limited success that I saw on the next best thing thread. In theory I could switch Bulu in to get grassy terrain up and to scare out water, ground, and rock types, switch to Heatran, use Z Sunny day for the speed boost, and then sweep with a combo of sun boosted magma storm, earth power, and grassy terrain boosted solar beam. In practice, however, I haven't been able to get it set up much yet.
These are the new sets:

Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 56 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Nature's Madness

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam

Any feedback on my original team and/or my team with this tweak would be appreciated.
 
#13
All right, I found the time to only rate this now, so my bad for that.
The team does, however, seem pretty solid, you do have to cover some things, though.

What is your team weak to?
  • Tyranitar both Mega and Choice Band can damage your team imensely, coming from the fact that your team does not have a rock-resist. Latios also gets trapped, which worsens your match-up versus those two sets even more.
  • Hazard setters pose a huge problem to your team, since once the Stealth Rocks/Spikes are up, you do not have anything to remove said hazards. Especially in a meta, where hazard setters are as prevalent as never before, it is mandatory to run some sort of removal, even if you have Magic Bounce.
How can you improve your team?

Zygarde > Celesteela: To cover your Tyranitar weakness, I think Zygarde is the best Pokémon for it. Zygarde not only gives you the rock resist you need on your team, it can also, just like Celesteela, work as a tank with the ability to scout with Protect.

Zapdos > Latios: This might seem a little odd to you, but my plan is to kind of change the premise of the team from bulky offense/balance into balance completely. Since I gave up the Celesteela slot for Zygarde, I also needed another flying-type that can, ideally, defog; Thus Zapdos came into my mind. It is great in checking Kartana and Hawlucha, great as a removal, and great deliverer of paralysis.

*Tapu Bulu > Tangrowth: I put a star on it, since you have already suggested it but your team benefits much more from having the damage of ground type attacks halved.

Besides from Pokémon changes, I would also change moves and spreads. To be honest with you, I do not think you did a very good job in executing the Pokémons' potential well, instead you ran some mixed defense spreads, which makes Toxapex a lot worse in terms of walling general threats like Ash-Greninja or Charizard-Y.

Shift, Stealth Rocks; Diancie-Mega > Heatran: The reason why I made the change is for two reasons: Firstly, it alleviates Heatrans ability to threaten stall with the extra move-slot for Toxic.
Secondly, Diancie works perfectly as a hazard setter versus stall, since it threatens out Mega-Sableye, being a hazard-bouncer, like Diancie.

That was all, so here is the team, have fun ^^:


Hope I helped, man ^^
 
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#14
All right, I found the time to only rate this now, so my bad for that.
The team does, however, seem pretty solid, you do have to cover some things, though.

What is your team weak to?
  • Tyranitar both Mega and Choice Band can damage your team imensely, coming from the fact that your team does not have a rock-resist. Latios also gets trapped, which worsens your match-up versus those two sets even more.
  • Hazard setters pose a huge problem to your team, since once the Stealth Rocks/Spikes are up, you do not have anything to remove said hazards. Especially in a meta, where hazard setters are as prevalent as never before, it is mandatory to run some sort of removal, even if you have Magic Bounce.
How can you improve your team?

Zygarde > Celesteela: To cover your Tyranitar weakness, I think Zygarde is the best Pokémon for it. Zygarde not only gives you the rock resist you need on your team, it can also, just like Celesteela, work as a tank with the ability to scout with Protect.

Zapdos > Latios: This might seem a little odd to you, but my plan is to kind of change the premise of the team from bulky offense/balance into balance completely. Since I gave up the Celesteela slot for Zygarde, I also needed another flying-type that can, ideally, defog; Thus Zapdos came into my mind. It is great in checking Kartana and Hawlucha, great as a removal, and great deliverer of paralysis.

*Tapu Bulu > Tangrowth: I put a star on it, since you have already suggested it but your team benefits much more from having the damage of ground type attacks halved.

Besides from Pokémon changes, I would also change moves and spreads. To be honest with you, I do not think you did a very good job in executing the Pokémons' potential well, instead you ran some mixed defense spreads, which makes Toxapex a lot worse in terms of walling general threats like Ash-Greninja or Charizard-Y.

Shift, Stealth Rocks; Diancie-Mega > Heatran: The reason why I made the change is for two reasons: Firstly, it alleviates Heatrans ability to threaten stall with the extra move-slot for Toxic.
Secondly, Diancie works perfectly as a hazard setter versus stall, since it threatens out Mega-Sableye, being a hazard-bouncer, like Diancie.

That was all, so here is the team, have fun ^^:


Hope I helped, man ^^
Thanks! I'll try those sets out for a while, but I have a few questions. For Bulu, why do you recommend stone edge/nature's madness over superpower? Tyranitar should be no problem for Bulu with superpower. It also deals a lot of damage to any steel types that might want to switch in. For Zapdos, wouldn't static be a better ability than pressure? Neither are really that great, but it seems like the paralysis chance would be more useful than pressure. This is more a question about the metagame in general: Why is defog so much more common than it was in Gen 5? It seems kind of pointless to have both hazards and defog. Wouldn't it make more sense to use defog if your team doesn't have hazards of its own and to use rapid spin if you do use hazards?
 
#15
Thanks! I'll try those sets out for a while, but I have a few questions. For Bulu, why do you recommend stone edge/nature's madness over superpower? Tyranitar should be no problem for Bulu with superpower. It also deals a lot of damage to any steel types that might want to switch in. For Zapdos, wouldn't static be a better ability than pressure? Neither are really that great, but it seems like the paralysis chance would be more useful than pressure. This is more a question about the metagame in general: Why is defog so much more common than it was in Gen 5? It seems kind of pointless to have both hazards and defog. Wouldn't it make more sense to use defog if your team doesn't have hazards of its own and to use rapid spin if you do use hazards?
  • At the last moment I realized that you were a bit weak to Volcarona.
  • The abilities are sort of a debate. I wanted to annoy stall as much as possible, so I went with that ability.
  • Defog did not remove any hazards in generation 5, the mechanic was implemented in gen 6 and (almost) instantly became popular.
  • I mean it is the trend you always have to consider. At first, people have thought the exact same way about Defog + hazards as you did, the general perception changed after a while, however.
 
#16
  • At the last moment I realized that you were a bit weak to Volcarona.
  • The abilities are sort of a debate. I wanted to annoy stall as much as possible, so I went with that ability.
  • Defog did not remove any hazards in generation 5, the mechanic was implemented in gen 6 and (almost) instantly became popular.
  • I mean it is the trend you always have to consider. At first, people have thought the exact same way about Defog + hazards as you did, the general perception changed after a while, however.
I see, I misread bulbapedia. I didn't realize it only affected the opponent's side and not the user's. I thought it had worked like that back in gen 5, but my memory is probably from early gen 6, which was when I stopped playing comp.
 
#17
My team was just wiped away by a nasty plot Mew. None of my Pokemon can take two +2 hits from it and the only one that can take a hit and outspeed it(Diancie) can't OHKO it. So I can't switch anything in safely. Best case scenario, I switch in a full health Bulu on the turn it uses nasty plot, use wood hammer for 82.6 - 97.6%, then bring in Diancie to revenge kill it. That's if it decides not to use Genesis Supernova on Bulu. If it does, I'm fucked. So I'm gonna try to find a counter for that.
 
#18
My team was just wiped away by a nasty plot Mew. None of my Pokemon can take two +2 hits from it and the only one that can take a hit and outspeed it(Diancie) can't OHKO it. So I can't switch anything in safely. Best case scenario, I switch in a full health Bulu on the turn it uses nasty plot, use wood hammer for 82.6 - 97.6%, then bring in Diancie to revenge kill it. That's if it decides not to use Genesis Supernova on Bulu. If it does, I'm fucked. So I'm gonna try to find a counter for that.
It is generally hard to find a counter for an anti-meta Pokemon like Nasty Plot Mew. Besides, what you could do is to go into Zygarde: bait the Genesis Supernova, then go Bulu and grt your terrain up
 
#19
It is generally hard to find a counter for an anti-meta Pokemon like Nasty Plot Mew. Besides, what you could do is to go into Zygarde: bait the Genesis Supernova, then go Bulu and grt your terrain up
That seems less than ideal...

Taking a look at my team, I'm thinking I may take out Toxapex. It doesn't do anything defensively that other members of my team don't do. Toxapex resists Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, Steel, and Water. Bulu resists Water. Zygarde resists Fire and Poison. Heatran strongly resists Bug, Fairy, Ice, and Steel, and is immune to Fire and Poison. Diancie resists Bug and Fire. And Zapdos resists Bug, Fighting, and Steel. Pex is great for setting up toxic spikes, stopping setup sweepers, and stalling, but It seems like I could use something else instead. Maybe something that could better handle Mew.
 
#20
That seems less than ideal...

Taking a look at my team, I'm thinking I may take out Toxapex. It doesn't do anything defensively that other members of my team don't do. Toxapex resists Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, Steel, and Water. Bulu resists Water. Zygarde resists Fire and Poison. Heatran strongly resists Bug, Fairy, Ice, and Steel, and is immune to Fire and Poison. Diancie resists Bug and Fire. And Zapdos resists Bug, Fighting, and Steel. Pex is great for setting up toxic spikes, stopping setup sweepers, and stalling, but It seems like I could use something else instead. Maybe something that could better handle Mew.
If you take out Toxapex, you are automatically being weak to Charizard-Y again. To be honest, just let the team stay like that and try to play around the Mew, rather than wanting to take out a Pokémon that helps in so many other match-ups.
 

Meliodafu7

formerly PrideMustang
#21
NP Mew is totally anti-meta, and for sure no team covers all the metagame in 6 slots, so I wouldn't mind being wipped by a Pokemon you'll find almost never. I think you shouldn't ride out Toxapex, it's really good and helps in almost any MU, but if you want to do that, replace it for SpDef Mantine, they share similar role being a bulky SpDef wall
 
#24
I was considering swapping out Tangrowth for Tapu Bulu. On one hand, it hits a lot harder than Tangrowth, adds another resistance to fighting and dark type, and could possibly pick off Zapdos with stone edge if I correctly predict a switch. On the other hand, it's not a as bulky as Tangrowth, it has a weakness to steel and a painful 4x weakness to poison, and while it has regen from grassy terrain and horn leach, it's no regenerator.
Couldn't bulu just run rock slide? I think a little less damage for a chance of flinch is more viable.
 

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